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E30 (1982 - 1993)
God's Chariot. The E30 was produced primarily from 1982 through 1991. The cabriolet was the one exception which was produced through 1993.

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  #1  
Old 10-12-2016, 12:00 PM
E30^2 E30^2 is offline
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Mein Auto: 1984 325e 5 spd manual
E30 Start Up Sound

Hi all, 1987 325i 5spd

Traded for a 1987 325i 5 spd with a few performance parts but, it won't start. The below link is how the car sounds when trying to start it up. The PO says the timing jumped but, I don't think it has however, the cranking sounds odd. I can't figure what the metallic slapping is, unless it's normal during the cranking process.

Just want to know what you all think is happening during the cranking process based on the sound the engine produces.
All input is greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance!

http://vid1378.photobucket.com/album...psgxgiijv4.mp4
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  #2  
Old 10-12-2016, 04:52 PM
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hornhospital hornhospital is offline
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Dead link?
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BMW-CCA #441426 Which is worse, ignorance or apathy? I don't know, and I don't care!

1995 318is "Bebe"; 1993 325is "Elvira"; 1985 635CSi "Katja"; 1984 633CSi "Sylvia"; 1987 325is "Odette"

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  #3  
Old 10-12-2016, 05:32 PM
E30^2 E30^2 is offline
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That's odd.
Try this one.

http://vid1378.photobucket.com/albums/ah113/drewus/e30start_zpsgxgiijv4.mp4
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  #4  
Old 10-12-2016, 05:34 PM
E30^2 E30^2 is offline
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I pulled the oil filler cap and I can see the camshaft turning as the engine is cranking, which tells me the belt is on tact. It sounds as if the crank is slow.
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  #5  
Old 10-12-2016, 10:44 PM
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hornhospital hornhospital is offline
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Crank speed sounds normal to me, but good golly, that banging is awful. Time to pull the plugs and do a compression test on all 6 cylinders. Pull the rocker cover off, too, and check the rocker arms.

The only other thing I can think of that would make that noise would be the flywheel having a tooth missing.
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Quotes to live by:
guessing gets expensive...drivinfaster
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BMW-CCA #441426 Which is worse, ignorance or apathy? I don't know, and I don't care!

1995 318is "Bebe"; 1993 325is "Elvira"; 1985 635CSi "Katja"; 1984 633CSi "Sylvia"; 1987 325is "Odette"

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  #6  
Old 10-13-2016, 10:50 AM
E30^2 E30^2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hornhospital View Post
Crank speed sounds normal to me, but good golly, that banging is awful. Time to pull the plugs and do a compression test on all 6 cylinders. Pull the rocker cover off, too, and check the rocker arms.

The only other thing I can think of that would make that noise would be the flywheel having a tooth missing.
I know!!! That sounds baffles me! Can't figure out what it is but, I'll pull the VC and see what's going on in there.

Below are some pictures that I'm scratching my head about. Maybe someone can decipher them? Thanks in advance!
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  #7  
Old 10-13-2016, 11:51 AM
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The first picture is the combination temperature sensor. You should have a mating plug for that.

The second one is of the three main relays: the O2 sensor relay, the fuel pump relay and the ECU (main power) relay.

The third one looks a lot like the fog light plug from an E36, but I'm not sure what it is in an E30.

The fourth one is the demolished connector for the windshield washer pump.

The last one, I have no clue.
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Quotes to live by:
guessing gets expensive...drivinfaster
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BMW-CCA #441426 Which is worse, ignorance or apathy? I don't know, and I don't care!

1995 318is "Bebe"; 1993 325is "Elvira"; 1985 635CSi "Katja"; 1984 633CSi "Sylvia"; 1987 325is "Odette"


Last edited by hornhospital; 10-13-2016 at 11:52 AM.
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  #8  
Old 10-13-2016, 12:12 PM
E30^2 E30^2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hornhospital View Post
The first picture is the combination temperature sensor. You should have a mating plug for that.

The second one is of the three main relays: the O2 sensor relay, the fuel pump relay and the ECU (main power) relay.

The third one looks a lot like the fog light plug from an E36, but I'm not sure what it is in an E30.

The fourth one is the demolished connector for the windshield washer pump.

The last one, I have no clue.
The last picture is in the same location where the combination temperature sensor is, the driver side head light area. I honestly don't see a mate for the sensor.

The PO installed a bash bar and removed the bumper, rigged the signal lights to the front of the bash bar, thus the gigantic wiring mess behind both headlights.
But, on the last pic, if you look carefully, there is a wire with a bulb I believe, just laying there. What is that?

The below picture shows a connector behind the passenger side headlight, just laying there.


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  #9  
Old 10-13-2016, 12:30 PM
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I just don't know. It's the wrong size and shape to be a "city light" (Euro feature).
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guessing gets expensive...drivinfaster
nothing is more expensive than a cheap BMW...c4harpe13
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BMW-CCA #441426 Which is worse, ignorance or apathy? I don't know, and I don't care!

1995 318is "Bebe"; 1993 325is "Elvira"; 1985 635CSi "Katja"; 1984 633CSi "Sylvia"; 1987 325is "Odette"

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  #10  
Old 10-15-2016, 12:24 PM
E30^2 E30^2 is offline
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I appreciate your help. I was told the metallic slapping sound while cranking the engine might be the starter solenoid popping back out. But, I don't think there's a way to bypass the starter to turn the engine over. Looks like I have to find another starter to test.
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  #11  
Old 10-15-2016, 08:43 PM
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E30 Start Up Sound

The sound is a partially bent valve tapping the piston. Pull the valve cover and crank the engine over by hand. You should see a valve or two not fully releasing.
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Last edited by BigBoy740il; 10-15-2016 at 08:44 PM.
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  #12  
Old 10-16-2016, 08:31 PM
E30^2 E30^2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBoy740il View Post
The sound is a partially bent valve tapping the piston. Pull the valve cover and crank the engine over by hand. You should see a valve or two not fully releasing.
Thanks for the info. If that's the case, what would be my next step?
I read it might be the starter not disengaging. But, I'll pull off the cover and crank the engine to see if there's anything wrong.

I have an extra cylinder head incase that's the case but, I'm hoping that's not the case.
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  #13  
Old 10-16-2016, 09:15 PM
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Pull the rocker cover off (like I suggested in post #5) and make sure no rocker arms are broken. Pull the plugs and do a compression test. That will tell you if any valves are bent/broken, since that/those cylinder(s) will be way down on compression.
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Quotes to live by:
guessing gets expensive...drivinfaster
nothing is more expensive than a cheap BMW...c4harpe13
buying a ratty example (of a BMW) is a parasitic relationship.(and you ain't the mosquito) 7pilot
Ken Kanne, Silverhill, AL, E36 & New Member Intro Forum Mod/Bimmerfest Misplaced-Posting Tow Truck
BMW-CCA #441426 Which is worse, ignorance or apathy? I don't know, and I don't care!

1995 318is "Bebe"; 1993 325is "Elvira"; 1985 635CSi "Katja"; 1984 633CSi "Sylvia"; 1987 325is "Odette"

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  #14  
Old 10-17-2016, 07:36 AM
E30^2 E30^2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hornhospital View Post
Pull the rocker cover off (like I suggested in post #5) and make sure no rocker arms are broken. Pull the plugs and do a compression test. That will tell you if any valves are bent/broken, since that/those cylinder(s) will be way down on compression.
I pulled the cover off and everything seemed fine. No broken rocker arms however, I did not crank the engine while I had the cover off. I should have to look for rocker arm movement. I'm going to rent a compression tester and test the cylinders It's hard to believe a valve can make such a loud noise.

You can hear the noise clearer in this link. I figured out how to jump the fuel relay after I did this video. I jumped the relay and attempted to start the car again but, no dice.

http://vid1378.photobucket.com/album...pswskbjvty.mp4

Last edited by E30^2; 10-17-2016 at 07:58 AM. Reason: adding video link
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  #15  
Old 10-17-2016, 08:42 AM
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hornhospital hornhospital is offline
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First, CHARGE THE BATTERY. It's barely spinning it over now.

The knocks are too regularly spaced to be the solenoid dropping out. If it ends up being starter-related it's going to be a missing ring gear tooth. It 'bangs' at the same location in the engine rotation every time. By pulling the plugs before doing the compression check you should turn the engine BY HAND. You should be able to feel when it hits something, like a valve that hasn't closed.
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Quotes to live by:
guessing gets expensive...drivinfaster
nothing is more expensive than a cheap BMW...c4harpe13
buying a ratty example (of a BMW) is a parasitic relationship.(and you ain't the mosquito) 7pilot
Ken Kanne, Silverhill, AL, E36 & New Member Intro Forum Mod/Bimmerfest Misplaced-Posting Tow Truck
BMW-CCA #441426 Which is worse, ignorance or apathy? I don't know, and I don't care!

1995 318is "Bebe"; 1993 325is "Elvira"; 1985 635CSi "Katja"; 1984 633CSi "Sylvia"; 1987 325is "Odette"

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  #16  
Old 10-17-2016, 08:55 AM
E30^2 E30^2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hornhospital View Post
First, CHARGE THE BATTERY. It's barely spinning it over now.

The knocks are too regularly spaced to be the solenoid dropping out. If it ends up being starter-related it's going to be a missing ring gear tooth. It 'bangs' at the same location in the engine rotation every time. By pulling the plugs before doing the compression check you should turn the engine BY HAND. You should be able to feel when it hits something, like a valve that hasn't closed.
Sorry... Wrong link.. This is the correct link with the charged battery.

http://vid1378.photobucket.com/album...psaa3p5qix.mp4
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Old 10-17-2016, 09:04 AM
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Basically what you're saying is, if it were a missing tooth on the ring gear the bangs wouldn't be so closely sequenced since a full rotation of the ring gear is a lot longer than a full rotation from the crankshaft. And since the bangs are closely sequenced, the sound is most likely in the engine rather than the starter.
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  #18  
Old 10-17-2016, 06:19 PM
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No, the ring gear on the flywheel turns the exact same as the crankshaft. What I'm saying is it's not the solenoid dropping out (disengaging and reingaging the starter drive)
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Quotes to live by:
guessing gets expensive...drivinfaster
nothing is more expensive than a cheap BMW...c4harpe13
buying a ratty example (of a BMW) is a parasitic relationship.(and you ain't the mosquito) 7pilot
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BMW-CCA #441426 Which is worse, ignorance or apathy? I don't know, and I don't care!

1995 318is "Bebe"; 1993 325is "Elvira"; 1985 635CSi "Katja"; 1984 633CSi "Sylvia"; 1987 325is "Odette"

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  #19  
Old 10-18-2016, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hornhospital View Post
No, the ring gear on the flywheel turns the exact same as the crankshaft. What I'm saying is it's not the solenoid dropping out (disengaging and reingaging the starter drive)
I pulled the plugs yesterday and cranked the engine (not by hand yet). The engine spins fine as it would with no compression. I did not hear the loud banging noise but, I did hear a light tapping noise during every rotation. Wednesday I will turn it by hand slowly to see if there is resistance.

Surprisingly, when I pulled off the VC the inside was very clean. No oil residue anywhere. No oil staining. Everything was as silver as can be, as if it were a new head installed by the PO.

My goal this week is to hand crank the engine, then compression test, and check timing marks.
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  #20  
Old 10-19-2016, 07:59 PM
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Update. I pulled all the plugs and hand cranked the engine and heard nothing. No bangs, no slaps during rotation. But, when I start the car with the key, with the plugs out I hear the bang and slap during rotation. I have no clue where that bang/ slap is coming from. Absolutely no clunk, bang or slap sounds while hand cranking. There's a little resistance during rotation. Not sure if that's normal but, the engine didn't get stuck during rotation, nor was there sounds. I'm stumped on why it makes that sound while starting with the key but, not during hand cranking.
Thoughts? I'm at a loss. Missing tooth on the ring gear?
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  #21  
Old 10-28-2016, 02:04 PM
E30^2 E30^2 is offline
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Interestingly, I pulled the valve cover and cranked the engine to inspect the rockers and they are all fine except, no oil is getting to the head! I cranked the engine with the VC off. There should be oil spraying but, not a drop. I doubt the passages are blocked with gunk. There's oil in the pan. Thoughts? failing pump? Something wrong with the intermediate shaft? Would the shaft make that horrific clunk sound during rotations?

I would appreciate all feedback.

Thanks in advance...
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Old 10-30-2016, 10:39 AM
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Any idea why oil is not reaching the head? The head looks clean and new. I'm wondering if the PO installed the head gasket the wrong way or if there's something wrong with the intermediate shaft. How can I check to see if there's an issue with the intermediate shaft?
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  #23  
Old 10-30-2016, 04:40 PM
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Have you put an oil pressure gauge on it while attempting to start it? There may not be any oil pressure at all...
__________________
Quotes to live by:
guessing gets expensive...drivinfaster
nothing is more expensive than a cheap BMW...c4harpe13
buying a ratty example (of a BMW) is a parasitic relationship.(and you ain't the mosquito) 7pilot
Ken Kanne, Silverhill, AL, E36 & New Member Intro Forum Mod/Bimmerfest Misplaced-Posting Tow Truck
BMW-CCA #441426 Which is worse, ignorance or apathy? I don't know, and I don't care!

1995 318is "Bebe"; 1993 325is "Elvira"; 1985 635CSi "Katja"; 1984 633CSi "Sylvia"; 1987 325is "Odette"

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Old 10-31-2016, 06:54 AM
E30^2 E30^2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hornhospital View Post
Have you put an oil pressure gauge on it while attempting to start it? There may not be any oil pressure at all...
I have not but I definitely will do that ASAP.

Thanks for the info!
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  #25  
Old 11-01-2016, 11:21 AM
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control this valve

control this valve
is ventil valve pierburg before distributor
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