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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #26  
Old 02-26-2011, 11:39 AM
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Needsdecaf Needsdecaf is offline
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There is nothing in my papers prohibiting it.
But without a USA approval, or other missing paperwork, considering a nice Bugatti to replace the 7 series is possibly a better advice in stead of the DIY Touring Ed.
The car is not federalized for sale or import into the US.

You cannot buy this car via European Delivery and bring it back into the US. Trust me on this.
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  #27  
Old 02-26-2011, 11:57 AM
BimmerUKF10 BimmerUKF10 is offline
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The GT is an interesting package and I seriously considered it until I drove both. the GT just does not feel as controlled and certainly does not handle the road anything like the F10. Personally I don't like the ride hight either. Subjective to a degree, but make sure you give both models a thorough test drive before making a descision!
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  #28  
Old 02-26-2011, 01:34 PM
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I traded a 335i Vert for my 550i GT. My comments are based on my experience with my 550i GT but I think my experience is generally applicable to the question.

The 5 GT is a niche vehicle. I suspect that after a test drive you will find it either compelling or lackluster.

Dimensions – the 5 GT is built on 7 series architecture and shares wheelbase and track with the short wheel base 7 series. Indeed, being 6' 2" and 210 lbs, I find the back seat more comfortable in my GT than the long wheelbase 750il due to the slightly raised seat configuration in the GT. In the F10, if I adjust the driver's seat to a comfortable position, there is very little space behind my seat. (BTW – I find the visibility of the 5 GT to be good – there is a lot of glass and the driving position is slightly raised – perhaps my height makes a difference). In general, if space is the critical issue, buy the GT. In terms of both luxurious accommodations in both the front and back seats, and utility – the GT is a different class car; indeed, you really are driving a 7 series. The real question is – do you need the space that the GT offers?

Dynamically – My 550i GT is a very large car but it drives small. I find the twin turbo V-8 to be exhilarating. I would not even consider the GT unless it was equipped with dynamic handling and sport suspension. I find the GT so configured to be engaging. According to numbers posted by Road & Track, a 550i and 550i GT are dynamically equal which I would not expect given the weight differential. BMW understands how to make large heavy vehicles perform and feel smaller than their actual dimensions and weight. I imagine this is equally as valid for the 535 but my experience is limited. Bottom line both cars offer a fun driving experience.

Aesthetics - Styling is personal – having owned an e39 I find the F10 to be pure BMW. The F10 is a masterful but restrained design that incorporates traditional BMW styling cues. I would think most BMW enthusiasts would be very pleased with the overall design and styling of the F10. On the F07 forum, I have often described the GT styling as robustly athletic – I consider that apt. The GT incorporates BMW styling cues within a design language, that emphasizes muscularity, not unlike the design language of the X6. I find the F10 to be too conservative whereas most enthusiasts will find it to be just right. The last time I saw a cabin as nicely appointed as the GT, I was riding in a Maserati Quattroporte.

I always have had a soft spot for Porsches, having owned a 911 Turbo, I primarily crossed shopped the GT with a Porsche Panamera not the F10. In the end, the flamboyance of the Panamera was too outré and the F10 was just too anonymous. BTW – In the wild, the GT has road presence, and I have received numerous unsolicited favorable comments, which frankly surprised me, after reading very derogatory comments on BMW forums. The styling, and general persona, works for me, but I have found that success, professionally, as well as in life, depends on not being ruled by the opinion of others.

My recommendation - the F10/535i
The GT is a niche vehicle – if you are receptive to the GT's siren song – you will have the feeling that BMW built a bespoke vehicle just for you. The 535i is safe – it is the prudent choice.

FYI - respectfully, you might find this interesting....

Road & Track in the March 2011 issue reported their test results for the 550i equipped with a 6MT. Both cars were equipped with sport packages and dynamic handling. Previously in July 2010, R&T reported numbers for the 550i GT. The 550i GT and the 550i test results were very close. I am surprised by the results.

..............................GT...............550i
0 – 60.....................5.1 ...............5.0
0-100......................11.6..............11.4
¼ mile.....................13.4@106.5...13.4@106.8
Top speed................150...............150
Brake 60-0................122...............125
Brake 80-0................220...............218
Skidpad, g.................0.89..............0.88
Slalom mph................66.7..............66.0
R&T mpg...................16.0..............17.8
Curb weight...............4720.............4410
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Last edited by Capobranco; 02-26-2011 at 02:56 PM.
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  #29  
Old 02-26-2011, 03:12 PM
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@svanil

Very well done.
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  #30  
Old 02-26-2011, 06:03 PM
nlk10010 nlk10010 is offline
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I'm not sure I understand: if you like BMW, want a luxurious, powerful model, need some carrying capacity and don't want an SUV (i.e. X-Models), then what is there? I'm not enamored of the GT's appearance but it doesn't turn me off, the 400hp engine is available and it's not as tall as an SUV.

Does it handle as well as a 5-series sedan? No, of course not, but then again the 5-series sedan doesn't handle as well as a Z4 or Porsche Panamera. No matter what you buy there's always going to be SOMETHING that handles better, or carries more stuff. Buying a car is much like life: there are numerous trade-offs, you can't get something without giving up something else, you just need to make a personal evaluation of the trade-offs.

If you DESPISE the way the GT looks (and I could understand that) then you really can't justify buying it.
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  #31  
Old 02-26-2011, 06:18 PM
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I saw an Eclass wagon a few weeks ago. It looks a lot better than the sedan, and it's available in North America. It only comes in AWD and V6. The Current engine is a pig, but should be better when the new DI version is out.
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  #32  
Old 02-26-2011, 06:33 PM
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@svanil

Very well done.
+ 2 I concur
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  #33  
Old 02-26-2011, 06:55 PM
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Capobranco Capobranco is offline
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Originally Posted by nlk10010 View Post
I'm not sure I understand: if you like BMW, want a luxurious, powerful model, need some carrying capacity and don't want an SUV (i.e. X-Models), then what is there? I'm not enamored of the GT's appearance but it doesn't turn me off, the 400hp engine is available and it's not as tall as an SUV.

Does it handle as well as a 5-series sedan? No, of course not, but then again the 5-series sedan doesn't handle as well as a Z4 or Porsche Panamera. No matter what you buy there's always going to be SOMETHING that handles better, or carries more stuff. Buying a car is much like life: there are numerous trade-offs, you can't get something without giving up something else, you just need to make a personal evaluation of the trade-offs.

If you DESPISE the way the GT looks (and I could understand that) then you really can't justify buying it.
Please note my post above - dynamically per R&T the 550i and 550i GT are essentially equal. In general, I view the test results not in negative terms with respect to the 550i - a car I find very desirable - but as a positive 550i GT statement. If you have the opportunity to drive the 550i GT equipped with sport pack, dynamic handling and 20 in. wheels - you will be surprised - I was. Image v. Reality

As to the Panamera - I seriously considered purchasing a Panamera. Porsche v. BMW is an epic challenge and the conclusion is not forgone. You might find Automobile's comparison test between the Panamera and the 550i GT interesting. The Panamera is the better canyon carver but not necessarily the better car. I did not have the benefit of reading the Automobile piece before purchasing but I agree with their analysis and conclusions.

http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews...a_s/index.html
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  #34  
Old 02-26-2011, 09:05 PM
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thanks everyone! for those who posted about safety, I completely agree that realistically both are very equally safe, and that a smaller, more agile, better handling vehicle is more likely to avoid an accident in the first place. that said, when I think of accidents, I think of how our last 5 (quite sadly) died -- t-boned a full size van, damage on the front, driver side and rear. LondonBlue was fine and walked out without a scratch (actually walked out before BMW Assist called; they assumed the worst when there was no answer so ambulance/police was there by the time she got to the sidewalk!) God FORBID there is another accident like that, maybe something larger/heavier would be better (which is why we went with the 750Li). In that sense, the 5GT's slightly bigger size/weight would be an advantage for her. but for me personally, I agree with the rest of you -- I'd rather have something that is more likely to avoid the accident (shorter braking distance, more agile, etc) in the first place.

Svanil - wow! dude! excellent write-up! thank you very much!
- I agree the sport package and handing package will be worth it. LondonBlue will likely always leave it in normal mode; but if/when I drive, I would likely leave it sport or sport+
- do we need the extra space? it's not essential, but would be a big plus
- rear seat space and rear seat package. I definitely like the extra space. I was able to put the driver's seat in a comfortable position (i'm 6'1, 200), and fit in the back seat with still several inches for my knees. To me, it's really like getting a 7 series for the price of a 5 (a well optioned 5 at least). With just one little bundle of joy, I think the rear seat package with 2 seats is worth it. From what i can tell, the rear seats will cool and heat, but not massage. still worth it I think.

LondonBlue test drove a 535x GT; she said it felt fine but lacked a little oomph (I reminded her mpg; worse with the V8, and that she could always drive it DS mode if she wanted more oomph) and she is not crazy about the trunk, especially being split and how the rear looks. My thoughts are after she has it for a while, she will like the interior so much she won't really notice the rear. Plus I think she'll get use to the trunk. I think the more she and Lara use the car, enjoy the rear seat, the interior, etc, the more they will really like it. Really, I see this as getting a car as nice as our 7 series, but with better gas mileage (like our old E60 530i). Thanks everyone, esp you Svanil!
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  #35  
Old 02-26-2011, 09:06 PM
LondonBlue LondonBlue is offline
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I would like to thank everyone for their insight and recommendations.

I tested the GT today. The drive is very good. It was the GT 535x drive. I noticed it didn't have as much oomph as the 535x sedan, but did get used to it. I love the space in the backseat, which is particularly attractive because occasionally i sit in the back with the kid while my husband is driving. So grand lux everything. Seat is so comfortable I wanted to fall asleep, etc. etc. We went back and forth into this car 3 times to re-check the backseat and compared it to the 7 series and 5 series in the showroom.

The issues are:

1. the small rear window, which I'm afraid to think will be a big problem. Husband says i'll get used to using the camera.

2. I know the car is a hatchback, but I don't like how if you open the trunk to put in something big, you expose the rest of the passengers. What if it's raining hard??

3. Back of car doesn't have that swank look like the 7 series has, or 5 for that matter.

ohhh. decisions. decisions.
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  #36  
Old 02-26-2011, 09:08 PM
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hahaha!!! LondonBlue and I are reading the same thread and replying at the same time!! And we're sitting just 3 feet away from each other! ha!!
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  #37  
Old 02-26-2011, 09:26 PM
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I still think the 740i recommendation still should be considered. You're getting the fuel efficiency of a twinturbo 6, but with the massive size of a 7 series that you're already accustomed to. Plus it's faster than both the 535i and GT.
2011 BMW 740i Full Test:
http://www.insideline.com/bmw/7-seri...full-test.html
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  #38  
Old 02-27-2011, 03:28 AM
bmwarchitect bmwarchitect is offline
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Originally Posted by LondonBlue View Post
I would like to thank everyone for their insight and recommendations.

I tested the GT today. The drive is very good. It was the GT 535x drive. I noticed it didn't have as much oomph as the 535x sedan, but did get used to it. I love the space in the backseat, which is particularly attractive because occasionally i sit in the back with the kid while my husband is driving. So grand lux everything. Seat is so comfortable I wanted to fall asleep, etc. etc. We went back and forth into this car 3 times to re-check the backseat and compared it to the 7 series and 5 series in the showroom.

The issues are:

1. the small rear window, which I'm afraid to think will be a big problem. Husband says i'll get used to using the camera.

2. I know the car is a hatchback, but I don't like how if you open the trunk to put in something big, you expose the rest of the passengers. What if it's raining hard??

3. Back of car doesn't have that swank look like the 7 series has, or 5 for that matter.

ohhh. decisions. decisions.
Re: Issue 2. I thought one of the features of the GT is that when you opened the trunk the interior was sealed off from the open trunk? Or is that if you just open the glass on the hatch? Not familiar with the GT, but I thought I read this somewhere.
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  #39  
Old 02-27-2011, 04:21 AM
bmwarchitect bmwarchitect is offline
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Re: Issue 2. I thought one of the features of the GT is that when you opened the trunk the interior was sealed off from the open trunk? Or is that if you just open the glass on the hatch? Not familiar with the GT, but I thought I read this somewhere.

Found it- an excerpt from a leftlane news review of the GT- Was this demonstrated to you?

"Interior touches include an optional panoramic sunroof, fully adjustable rear seats and a dual-function trunk lid -- the latter intended to open wide for larger object but keep the cabin isolated when a standard trunk opening will do."
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  #40  
Old 02-27-2011, 06:13 AM
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Perhaps one should load the wide stuff first and then let the passengers in to the rear when it is raining.

I guess BMW designers and engineers would have sealed the cabin of the GT for every loading situation if they could, within the parameters of the car. But sometimes you cannot have your cake and eat it too.

I believe BMW did very well with the double door design of the rear of the GT. The looks of it may not be universally loved, but it is a fine piece of engineering IMO.
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  #41  
Old 02-27-2011, 06:28 AM
nlk10010 nlk10010 is offline
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@nlk10010
I saw an Eclass wagon a few weeks ago. It looks a lot better than the sedan, and it's available in North America. It only comes in AWD and V6. The Current engine is a pig, but should be better when the new DI version is out.
Yup, but you basically answered your own question: the V6 is the only engine available and even when the new one comes out, and IF there is a wagon, it won't (AFAIK) be a 400HP turbo. Besides, I, personally, am not fond of MBs.

There's also the CTS(-V) wagon: very stylish, but the tradeoffs are it's a Cadillac and, at least for the V, no AWD.

No doubt station wagons are sleeker than the GT, but there aren't that many available and they have downsides. If you don't need carrying capacity then you're golden; otherwise, something's gotta' give.
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  #42  
Old 02-27-2011, 07:24 AM
bmwarchitect bmwarchitect is offline
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Originally Posted by nlk10010 View Post
Yup, but you basically answered your own question: the V6 is the only engine available and even when the new one comes out, and IF there is a wagon, it won't (AFAIK) be a 400HP turbo. Besides, I, personally, am not fond of MBs.

There's also the CTS(-V) wagon: very stylish, but the tradeoffs are it's a Cadillac and, at least for the V, no AWD.

No doubt station wagons are sleeker than the GT, but there aren't that many available and they have downsides. If you don't need carrying capacity then you're golden; otherwise, something's gotta' give.
I looked at a Cadillac CTS at the auto show (not the wagon though). BMW interior is higher quality IMO.
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  #43  
Old 02-27-2011, 07:46 AM
nlk10010 nlk10010 is offline
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I looked at a Cadillac CTS at the auto show (not the wagon though). BMW interior is higher quality IMO.
Oh, I don't think there's a question of that; that's what I meant when I said "it's a Cadillac" (not that there's anything wrong with that). If you don't want what the CTS(-V) offers then there is one less alternative to the GT to consider.

However, wifey and I both thought the interior of the CTS was more stylish (granted, that's extremely subjective) and, as I mentioned, you can't have everything. The CTS-V wagon is probably $15-20,000 less than a comparably equipped 550GT. Of course amortized over the life of the car it's less, but you get the idea.
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  #44  
Old 02-27-2011, 08:03 AM
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Needsdecaf Needsdecaf is offline
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Originally Posted by TJPark01 View Post
I still think the 740i recommendation still should be considered. You're getting the fuel efficiency of a twinturbo 6, but with the massive size of a 7 series that you're already accustomed to. Plus it's faster than both the 535i and GT.
2011 BMW 740i Full Test:
http://www.insideline.com/bmw/7-seri...full-test.html
Confused as to why the 740i runs the N54...
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  #45  
Old 02-27-2011, 09:54 AM
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Confused as to why the 740i runs the N54...
And the older 6 speed ZF auto. Who knows? When BMW was asked why they chose the N54 engine for the 335is, they said they had more experience tuning the older engine.
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  #46  
Old 02-27-2011, 10:03 AM
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And the older 6 speed ZF auto. Who knows? When BMW was asked why they chose the N54 engine for the 335is, they said they had more experience tuning the older engine.
Yeah, that was the only thing I came up with. You need a bit more oomph to push that extra couple hundred pounds, and the 335is's N54 does the trick. Strange it doesn't use the 8 speeder though.
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  #47  
Old 02-27-2011, 01:36 PM
bmwarchitect bmwarchitect is offline
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Originally Posted by nlk10010 View Post
Oh, I don't think there's a question of that; that's what I meant when I said "it's a Cadillac" (not that there's anything wrong with that). If you don't want what the CTS(-V) offers then there is one less alternative to the GT to consider.

However, wifey and I both thought the interior of the CTS was more stylish (granted, that's extremely subjective) and, as I mentioned, you can't have everything. The CTS-V wagon is probably $15-20,000 less than a comparably equipped 550GT. Of course amortized over the life of the car it's less, but you get the idea.
Agree with you that the interior does have some style.
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  #48  
Old 02-27-2011, 01:58 PM
Sophisto Sophisto is offline
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Originally Posted by bmwarchitect View Post
Agree with you that the interior does have some style.
In my taste it doesn't compensate for the rather poor hindsight of the car.
Opening the hind gives the same efect as that to the passengers in the back of an ancient VW Rabbit.
Sorry, the looks of this GT are a no go in my book.
And if mpg's are important, i would never consider it.

After just finishing this remark Hamster calls the GT a fat old aunt.

Certainly a very uncool car....

Last edited by Sophisto; 02-27-2011 at 02:17 PM. Reason: Hamster on topgear
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  #49  
Old 02-27-2011, 03:07 PM
bmwarchitect bmwarchitect is offline
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Originally Posted by Sophisto View Post
In my taste it doesn't compensate for the rather poor hindsight of the car.
Opening the hind gives the same efect as that to the passengers in the back of an ancient VW Rabbit.
Sorry, the looks of this GT are a no go in my book.
And if mpg's are important, i would never consider it.

After just finishing this remark Hamster calls the GT a fat old aunt.

Certainly a very uncool car....
The comment was referring to the interior of a CT-V cadillac, although the interior of the F10 GT is also nice. Have to agree that the back end of the GT F10 is a considerable compromise to the overall look, but the OP appears to like it enough. This may be why they haven't sold well in the US.
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  #50  
Old 02-27-2011, 03:54 PM
jdubbs jdubbs is offline
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Originally Posted by bmwarchitect View Post
This may be why they haven't sold well in the US.
By what metric? January sales of the GT were 131% higher than a year ago, and by all accounts the GT has outsold the previous generation 5 wagon by several fold, surpassing BMW's expectations.
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