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Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > E39 (1997 - 2003)

E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

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  #1  
Old 03-08-2011, 06:31 AM
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Nittenyadhav Nittenyadhav is offline
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How to replace Double Temperature Switch BMW E39 525i

Hi guys,

I have checked the codes and one code is always coming and not getting clear. Its Coolant tempreture sensor. I'have chnaged the coolant sensor next to Rad but no good then I searched and found there is one more Coolant tempreture sensor hidden next to Cylender head (Item 3 in image). I think this is the problem but I am not sure how to get it out and where its located I cant see from Engine side. Anyone of you chnaged this in M54? Is there any DIY for this Please help...........

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  #2  
Old 03-08-2011, 06:41 AM
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bluebee bluebee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nittenyadhav View Post
I'have chnaged the coolant sensor next to Rad
On my M54, there is no "coolant temperature sensor" anywhere 'near' the radiator. There is an auxiliary fan thermoswitch in the bottom hose coming out of the radiator, but that is a switch, not a sensor.

The dual-temperature sensor (DTS) for my engine is, according to information in this thread, next to my engine near the driver side (IIRC) bulkhead.
- What is the temperature of the coolant & when the thermostat opens under normal conditions (1)

If you have the high cluster, you can actually see BOTH temperatures sensed by that DTS, according to what others have said (I think it's all in that thread so take a look).
- High instrument cluster check of the cooling system temperature KTMP (1)

That would give you the exact readings (both of them) from the sensor itself!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nittenyadhav View Post
Anyone of you chnaged this in M54? Is there any DIY
I just ran a search just now for the following terms:
- m54+dual+temperature+sensor

Which found this (which may be of use to you):
- P0128 Error

I's not a DIY, per se ... but you can run the similar searches to see if there is a DIY handy.


If/when you do find a DIY, please add to the tribal knowledge by posting what you found.

If there is no DTS DIY, then please write one up for the team.

I'll be glad to list the DIYs in the bestlinks when we find them.
- How to replace the dual temperature sensor (DTS) in the M54 engine (1) (2) (3) ...

Last edited by bluebee; 03-08-2011 at 06:52 AM.
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  #3  
Old 03-08-2011, 07:02 AM
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16valex 16valex is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nittenyadhav View Post
Hi guys,

I have checked the codes and one code is always coming and not getting clear. Its Coolant tempreture sensor. I'have chnaged the coolant sensor next to Rad but no good then I searched and found there is one more Coolant tempreture sensor hidden next to Cylender head (Item 3 in image). I think this is the problem but I am not sure how to get it out and where its located I cant see from Engine side. Anyone of you chnaged this in M54? Is there any DIY for this Please help...........

Attachment 269352
What is your code? Most of the time it's your thermostat is the issue. The double temp sensor hardly ever gone bad.

But if you have to replace it, it's doable.
You need a twelve point 22mm box wrench
Cut the box wrench in halves.
Remove left side micro-filter housing and and air duct.
Now feel your way in to find the DTS.
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  #4  
Old 03-08-2011, 07:04 AM
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Nittenyadhav Nittenyadhav is offline
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Thanks for the info bluebee you always there when we need help thanks.

Actually that sensor coming from rad is (Temperature sensor 13 62 1 433 077) I have replaced it but no good. I will search for information on DTS and if I find anything I will post here. I dont have high cluster so not sure whats the readings. but nidle is always on 12 position and never go towards red. When I start the car its on cold side and will take 3 to 4 km drive to come back to 12o'clock position. I dont see any problem in gauge its just when I do scan it shows coolant tempreature sensor.

One more thing bluebee if you can clear for me please. When I did the coolant drian for all work I drained the coolant from Rad and from all pipes. someone told me that I Should drin from engine as well but I didnt know on that time how to so I didnt. on refill I add the coolant and left thermostat bleed open to get all air out and when air was gone from there I open the Coolan tank bleed plugh to get the air out. Was that ok? or did I miss something?

Regards
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  #5  
Old 03-08-2011, 07:07 AM
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Nittenyadhav Nittenyadhav is offline
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Thanks for reply 16valex,

I just did replace the thermostat few days back with new waterpump and new water hoses. Few months back I had new rad. So I think its that DTS. Could you please explain bit more about twelve point 22mm box wrench?

Regards
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  #6  
Old 03-08-2011, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nittenyadhav View Post
Thanks for reply 16valex,

I just did replace the thermostat few days back with new waterpump and new water hoses. Few months back I had new rad. So I think its that DTS. Could you please explain bit more about twelve point 22mm box wrench?

Regards
12 points is same as 12 sided vs 6 sided. 12 sided gives you more finer angle of movement in tight space.
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Last edited by 16valex; 03-08-2011 at 07:20 AM.
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  #7  
Old 03-08-2011, 07:27 AM
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Thanks 16valex
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  #8  
Old 03-08-2011, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 16valex View Post
Cut the box wrench in halves.
Interesting. We should add this to the home-made tools threads:
- How to make your own BMW cooling system overhaul fan clutch nut counterhold tools (1) (2)
- How to make your own BMW thrust bushing tool (1) or buy them (1) (2) or improvise (1)
- How to make your own BMW car ramps (1)
- How to make your own BMW subframe & differential bushings tool (1)
- How to make your own BMW oxygen sensor removal tool (1)
- How to make your own BMW single-VANOS solonoid socket tool (1)
- How to make your own BMW camber & toe-in alignment tools (1)
- How to make your own BMW hella headlight adjusters (1) (2)
- How to make your own BMW rtab removal tool (1)
- How to make your own BMW upper timing chain locking tool (1)
- How to make your own BMW flywheel locking tool (1)
- How to make your own BMW cylinder head bolt removal tool (1)
- How to make your own BMW cam locking nut tool (1)
- How to make your own BMW crankshaft holder tool (1)
- How to make your own alignment tools to adjust toe-in and camber (1)
etc.

One question. Which HALF do you cut?

That is, do you halve the length?
Or do you open up the box part so that it's no longer a box wrench?
(Like you sort of do with the home-made o2 sensor sockets.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nittenyadhav View Post
that sensor coming from rad is (Temperature sensor 13 62 1 433 077)
That 'thing' (switch or sensor) apparently feeds the DME which then innervates the auxiliary fan. So, I call it a 'switch' rather than a sensor. But, it's just semantics for us really, unless your auxiliary fan isn't working. If your aux fan is fine, then that 'thing' is probably ok.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nittenyadhav View Post
I dont have high cluster so not sure whats the readings.
You can unlock the low cluster too; but I have no idea what it reports:
- How to unlock the low/high OBC on-board-computer cluster for diagnostics (1) (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nittenyadhav View Post
Someone told me that I Should drin from engine as well but I didnt know on that time how to so I didnt. on refill I add the coolant and left thermostat bleed open to get all air out and when air was gone from there I open the Coolan tank bleed plugh to get the air out. Was that ok? or did I miss something?
You did what I did when I overhauled my cooling system. The engine drain bolts were just too difficult to get to (for what they're worth); and, really, unless I was MIXING incompatible coolants, I considered what little was left in the engine as 'water' and diluted the newly poured coolant accordingly:
- How to refill M52/M54 coolant DIY by cn90 (1)

For bleeding, I followed the elevation (on car ramps) suggestion, and it was pretty straightforward:
- Bleeding the cooling system (1) (2) (3)

Well, it was straightforward except for a minor snafu:
- Broken bleeder screw

Last edited by bluebee; 03-08-2011 at 07:30 AM.
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  #9  
Old 03-08-2011, 07:40 AM
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Nittenyadhav Nittenyadhav is offline
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hi blubee

after reading your post "unless I was MIXING incompatible coolants" I am scared. I filled the coolant with BMW 50/50 mix coolant but at last I was short and bought I different company but same quality coolant "Anti freeze". I did topup by 1 liter with this coolonat on top of BMW one. Will this a prob? I thought unless they both same" Anti-freeze" it should be ok. Do you suggest to drain all coolant back and use only BMW one again?
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  #10  
Old 03-08-2011, 07:49 AM
cn90 cn90 is offline
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Re antifreeze, don't be scared. I use Prestone in all my BMWs for 25 years, zero issues.

Re: Temp Sensor.
Do not get mixed up.
- The temp sensor at the bottom of the lower hose: its sole function is to activate the Aux Fan when the coolant is very hot (such as in the middle of summer).
- The temp sensor in the engine block (near Cyl #2-3 area): it controls the ECU. This sensor rarely goes bad before 200K.
When this sensor fails, it can cause hard-starting and bad fuel mileage.
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Old 03-08-2011, 07:53 AM
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Thanks cn90

Yes I do have very bad milage 6km per liter and my car is on 127700 km so far. Just to update that error I get its under IKE (IKE -> D3/C2 - Coolant temperature sensor).
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Old 03-08-2011, 08:01 AM
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And thanks again cn90, bluebee & 16valex

I am clear now about sensor and switch so in end this looks like it is that DTS (near Cyl #2-3 area) if its saying in code IKE -> D3/C2 - Coolant temperature sensor. I check with BMW and they sell this in 19 euros with its washer. Only thing is I have to install it which I'll try with 16valex info.

cn90 I know you will think what wrong with this guy but I am not sure why. today I noticed from starting in my car the hose from stst to rad it otherway around compare to imgae in here. Will this an issue? It was like this when I took it off for all mods.

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  #13  
Old 03-08-2011, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nittenyadhav View Post
unless they both same" Anti-freeze" it should be ok.
As Cam said, all the ethylene glycol coolants are 'compatible'.
BMW specifically gives you a list of coolants, and then BMW says you can mix all of those.

I compiled the most common coolants in this thread:
- BMW E39 fluid summary printout for your glovebox (1)

Specifically, see this excerpt:
- Engine coolant: phosphate free (for Europe's high-mineral-content water), amine & nitrite/nitrate free (for USA long-life requirements), & low-silicate or silicate free (for Japan requirements) 50:50 mixture of ethylene glycol & water (the Bentleys say distilled water (Bentley 020-11), aka de-mineralized or de-ionized water, some call it purified water, and the BMW AG TIS 12.11.2007 18:56 specifies water with a pH from 6.5 to 8.0, maximum total hardness of 3.6 mmol Ca++/liter, maximum chloride content 100 mg/liter, and maximum sulphate content 100mg/liter; interestingly the BMW TIS says "potable tap water usually fulfills these requirements". Despite this, most Bimmerfest posters say never use tap water due to the ion content. BMW lists a score of coolants in their BMW AG TIS 12.11.2007 18:55 which meet the BMW N 600 69.0 standard, some of which are BMW PN:81.22.9.407.454 1.5-liter; BMW PN:88.88.6.900.316 1 gallon; Castrol Anti-Freeze NF; BASF Glysantin Protect Plus G48, & Havoline AFC (BD04); but most of which are not easily found in the USA. Many Bimmerfesters recommend BMW coolant; however other Bimmerfesters recommend Prestone Extended Life 5/150, Valvoline Zerex G-05, and Service Pro Universal Formula. [Total Volume: 1997 I6=10.5 quarts (2.6 gallons), 1997 V8=12.0 quarts (3.0 gallons), 1998-2002 I6=11.1 quarts (2.8 gallons), 1998-2002 V8=12.7 quarts (3.2 gallons), 1997-2002 V8 with latent heater=13.5 quarts (3.4 gallons)]. Prestone says the only reason for phosphate free is the extremely high mineral content of water in Europe - and that in the USA, it's not needed. Replacement Interval: Every three years (Bentley page 020-9) or every four years (aforementioned BMW AG TIS) starting from date of manufacture (except for M-Power vehicles which have 3-year intervals). Note: Mixing BMW-recommended coolant brands is permissible; but mixing types is not permissible unless it's an emergency.

For people like Cam and me, we use Prestone Extended Life:
- The schools of thought for the selection of coolants (1)

But, what I meant by 'incompatible' was thing like Evans NPG+ (which you don't have so don't worry).
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Old 03-08-2011, 08:10 AM
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To 16valex:

One question. Which HALF do you cut on the 22mm wrench?
a) That is, do you halve the length?
b) Or do you open up the box part so that it's no longer a box wrench?
(Like you sort of do with the home-made o2 sensor sockets.)
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Old 03-08-2011, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
- The temp sensor in the engine block (near Cyl #2-3 area): it controls the ECU. This sensor rarely goes bad before 200K.
When this sensor fails, it can cause hard-starting and bad fuel mileage.
Cn90,

For M54 its location is more closer to cylinder #5. You're correct if it's an M52.
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Old 03-08-2011, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
To 16valex:

One question. Which HALF do you cut on the 22mm wrench?
a) That is, do you halve the length?
b) Or do you open up the box part so that it's no longer a box wrench?
(Like you sort of do with the home-made o2 sensor sockets.)
BB,
a) is correct. To make the length shorter and more compact in order to maneuver in tight space.
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  #17  
Old 03-08-2011, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nittenyadhav View Post
And thanks again cn90, bluebee & 16valex

I am clear now about sensor and switch so in end this looks like it is that DTS (near Cyl #2-3 area) if its saying in code IKE -> D3/C2 - Coolant temperature sensor. I check with BMW and they sell this in 19 euros with its washer. Only thing is I have to install it which I'll try with 16valex info.

cn90 I know you will think what wrong with this guy but I am not sure why. today I noticed from starting in my car the hose from stst to rad it otherway around compare to imgae in here. Will this an issue? It was like this when I took it off for all mods.

Attachment 269360
The picture is wrong.
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Old 03-08-2011, 09:25 AM
cn90 cn90 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 16valex View Post
Cn90,

For M54 its location is more closer to cylinder #5. You're correct if it's an M52.
My bad,

Actually for M52, the temp sensor is close to cyl #4-5 area as well.
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Old 03-08-2011, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
To 16valex:

One question. Which HALF do you cut on the 22mm wrench?
a) That is, do you halve the length?
b) Or do you open up the box part so that it's no longer a box wrench?
(Like you sort of do with the home-made o2 sensor sockets.)


I just took some pix for you, I know you love them

I did not have a 22mm so I used a 7/8 standard instead, it works out just fine. It's about 5 and 1/2 inches long.

To the OP make a note of the sensor connector, it's PITA to remove. Good luck.
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Old 03-08-2011, 10:31 AM
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Thanks for the clarification.

This is what I added to the bestlinks just now to help the next person:
- How to replace the M54 dual temperature sensor (DTS, aka double temperature switch) in the M54 (1) (2) (3) (4) & how to make your own short DTS removal tool out of a 22mm or 7/8" box wrench (1)
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  #21  
Old 03-09-2011, 12:58 AM
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Nittenyadhav Nittenyadhav is offline
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Thanks for all your supports guys you guys rock

I've ordered the new sensor and will make a DIY while I am replacing it and post it here. With all your help I think it shouldn't be that hard to replace the DTS.


Regards
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Old 03-09-2011, 06:28 AM
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Nittenyadhav Nittenyadhav is offline
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Hi 16valex quick question please will the coolant come out when I take the DTS out? should I worry putting some towels to soak coolant? Should I drain any coolant before taking this sensor out?

Please suggest....
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Old 03-09-2011, 06:31 AM
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Nittenyadhav Nittenyadhav is offline
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Bluebee I found a hairline crack in hose thermostat to rad. Could you please let me know if I take it out to replace will all coolant come out or just little? Should I drain the coolant before or just top up after replace the old hose?

Please advice
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Old 03-09-2011, 06:56 AM
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Depending on your skills will determin how much fluid u loose, and yes the sender hole will leak when I remove it, quick hands.and.good skills and u should have.minimum loss.... either way u will need burp it when ur done

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Old 03-09-2011, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nittenyadhav View Post
Hi 16valex quick question please will the coolant come out when I take the DTS out? should I worry putting some towels to soak coolant? Should I drain any coolant before taking this sensor out?

Please suggest....
Yes, cooling will come out but just a little bit, I wouldn't worry about a little extra spillage. And no, you don't need to drain it before removal of DTS.
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