BMW walking a fine line

Many posts indicate BMW did not go far enough and there is no place for the 1M. I think BMW is trying to walk a fine line by providing enthusiasts a real M option in the 1 series and not really stepping on the toes of those loyal enthusiasts that have bought and will buy the M3. They have comprehensively updated the chassis, meaningful drivetrain changes, done a decent job of creating a specific look on the exterior without going too far in the boy racer look, and have tasteful tweaks inside the cabin.

I went ahead and put in a deposit because I love small cars and the three series has grown larger than I would like (and my kids are now off at college). I am looking forward to the upgraded suspension, the short throw shift, M3 brakes, nice wheels, and every time I climb in experiencing the alcantara details and orange stitching as a reminder of what it is.

Sure I could have chipped a 135i ($2200 admittedly more power), upgraded the wheels ($5000), brakes ($7000), suspension ($2300), etc but even with comprehensive changes it would not equal the balanced and integrated package of the 1M. Also it would be a hot rodded model and not a limited production model.

I am hoping a few small conveniences like mirror garage door remotes and fold down rear seats carry over from the 135i. I am afraid the later may be omitted and that will be a real pain when I want to take my bike or anything large for that matter. Please post if you have info on this.

There is a place for the 1M, my garage. Thanks, George

I've seen 1M at Geneva auto show and it had folding seats.
I think it had pass-through in place of ski bag as well.

I put deposit as well - 1M is the only new BMW model I would buy.

I still don't think it is a "real" M with that engine and I think history will not look back kindly on the dorky 1M. I predict after the first wave of buyers pay a premium to own one, the rest will languish on dealer lots with big incentives. Anyone remember the Z4M? My Z4MC sat for more than 2 years after it was delivered before it sold. Can you say discount?

Has anyone read up on the Mustang Boss 302 Laguna Seca? If you want to buy something truly special in that same price range, that would be a better choice. I would love to take a Boss 320 LS to my next DE event.

Originally Posted by sd330Ci

I've seen 1M at Geneva auto show and it had folding seats.
I think it had pass-through in place of ski bag as well.

I put deposit as well - 1M is the only new BMW model I would buy.

Thanks for the Geneva sighting with the folding seats. Sounds trivial but it comes in very handy.

I agree that some of the slots that mhrir objects to are a bit much and I'd prefer a cleaner look. I ordered white in hopes that it might not be too flamboyant (also does not show dirt and scratches too badly). With the relatively small number coming in I think they will sell very well and I doubt we will see be discounts soon. I am ok paying sticker on this one, but the $500 over invoice on the 135i was pretty attractive.

I just read the Car & Driver comparison and it reinforces the decision nicely. Now the long wait till July. Cheers, GJ

I am pretty sure you can also chip 1M to make a whole lot more power. Just wait a few more months till after market guys get examples of 1M.

Originally Posted by mhrir

I still don't think it is a "real" M with that engine and I think history will not look back kindly on the dorky 1M. I predict after the first wave of buyers pay a premium to own one, the rest will languish on dealer lots with big incentives. Anyone remember the Z4M? My Z4MC sat for more than 2 years after it was delivered before it sold. Can you say discount?

There could be some truth to this; especially the first part. Have a hard time buying a non-M M car.

Not sure how much more boost the tuners will be able to get without making further changes. What are they getting out of the "is" 3 series models? It is the same engine which is why this really is not an M car...

The last time I checked M car were not all about engines even though there is nothing wrong with the N54 twin turbo. It is a very strong performance engine. I think with appropriate mods the tuners are pushing close to 17 psi in N54's. The N54 in 1M is probably around 11-12 psi at most.

Originally Posted by Justin T

Not sure how much more boost the tuners will be able to get without making further changes. What are they getting out of the "is" 3 series models? It is the same engine which is why this really is not an M car...

Originally Posted by Kayani_1

The last time I checked M car were not all about engines even though there is nothing wrong with the N54 twin turbo. It is a very strong performance engine.

I reluctantly accept that the times are changing and BMW has had to give up RPMs and go with forced induction for the M cars. But I disagree that M cars are not about engines. Consider the S62 M5, S65B40 M3, S85B50 M5/M6, and S54B32 M3/Z3M/Z4M. All to an engine were (and still are) very special techno wonders that are high-rpm screamers. The S54 at 8,000 rpm? Not a problem.

Only recently has there been the disturbing trend of M badged vehicles with engines shared with other non-M cars. I tried to look past it with the X5M/X6M but to piss away something that could have been truly special in the 1M is disappointing. There is no special engine for this car, just the leftovers from the 335is and Z4 35is.

imho a real M engine has ITBs and high revs

Originally Posted by GeorgeJ.

Many posts indicate BMW did not go far enough and there is no place for the 1M. I think BMW is trying to walk a fine line by providing enthusiasts a real M option in the 1 series and not really stepping on the toes of those loyal enthusiasts that have bought and will buy the M3. They have comprehensively updated the chassis, meaningful drivetrain changes, done a decent job of creating a specific look on the exterior without going too far in the boy racer look, and have tasteful tweaks inside the cabin.

I went ahead and put in a deposit because I love small cars and the three series has grown larger than I would like (and my kids are now off at college). I am looking forward to the upgraded suspension, the short throw shift, M3 brakes, nice wheels, and every time I climb in experiencing the alcantara details and orange stitching as a reminder of what it is.

Sure I could have chipped a 135i ($2200 admittedly more power), upgraded the wheels ($5000), brakes ($7000), suspension ($2300), etc but even with comprehensive changes it would not equal the balanced and integrated package of the 1M. Also it would be a hot rodded model and not a limited production model.

I am hoping a few small conveniences like mirror garage door remotes and fold down rear seats carry over from the 135i. I am afraid the later may be omitted and that will be a real pain when I want to take my bike or anything large for that matter. Please post if you have info on this.

There is a place for the 1M, my garage. Thanks, George

I am buying a 1M as well. I currently own an 07 335i which I do like, however it feels as big as the 5 series to me from two generations ago only heavier. I still have fond memories of my 1972 2002tii of which no current BMW offers to me. As soon as I read about the 1M I realized a few things.

1 This is a real Enthusiasts car that is small shares the same chassis as the M3 at the price of the 335i.

2 The 1M is ~400 lbs lighter than the current M3 with the same chassis which equals better agility overall.

3 Price - + M3 performance for $20K less money. You will never find a less expensive M car EVER again. The 1M is even less expensive than the E30 M3 in today's dollars.

4 To all out there who think this isn't a Real M car because it doesn't have it's own high rev engine??? Get real the current M3 is the LAST High Rev N/A engine that we will see in an M car. Turbo's make Big Torque, and Torque Rules always. The 1M will go down in BMW history as one of the all time limited edition Cult cars.

5 Of the 450 total cars for All the UK 300 have already been sold in just the first Month.

6 Of the ~800 cars allocated for the whole US most have been pre-ordered. You may find a few left if you look real hard.

7 For all who think they will sit on the dealer lots waiting for a discount just to sell, guess again. This car will be produced from March through December Only. Demand is already way past the current production schedule.

8 To the OP, unfortunately the auto Garage Door Opener won't be offered in the 1M, but the rear seats to fold. Per several of the first people who have received their cars here in the US.
I have links you can read about this if you would like.

if you are looking for a serious enthusiast car why not just get a E46 M3 ZCP or a Z4MC...
those are real M cars....
i think M has deviated from its core values... and the only real Ms are the ones before the current/future models

Originally Posted by Kayani_1

The last time I checked M car were not all about engines even though there is nothing wrong with the N54 twin turbo. It is a very strong performance engine. I think with appropriate mods the tuners are pushing close to 17 psi in N54's. The N54 in 1M is probably around 11-12 psi at most.

OK, so I will buy a 135, swap the suspension, put a limited slip diff, chip it, sell the rims/tires and buy the competition rims/tires, and put some M badges on the back... We good?

Personally I couldn't care less what the self-proclaimed arbiters of M-ness (M-nositicators?) say about the 1M's value as a true M-car (the definition of which has always meant different things to different people). At the end of the day the 1M is one heck of a performance machine (faster around many tracks than the M3), it looks and sounds like a sexy beast, and would be a hoot to drive. If it were not so terribly impractical for my stage of life (2 year old), I would gladly drive one of these (in Valencia Orange no less) and have a huge smile on my face whilst doing so.

The only reason the Z4MC sat on the lot is because it was the butt-ugliest car BMW has ever built. Demand for the 1M has and will far outstrip supply.

agree 100%
have my 1M already ordered (ED in July)

To be honest the M engines might have revved sky high in all those configurations. But that is not what made M cars special. What made M cars special was the overall driving dynamics. This driving dynamics that puts a smile on your face......this is what was lacking in its competitors and not how awesome the engine was.

Because to be honest M engines when compared to its MB counter parts were always anemic. The Corvette engine or Viper engine or AMG engines could whoop M engines in overall performance any given day. They might not be exotic engines but they were much quicker. Which is what the purpose of the engine is. At the track or quarter mile no body opens your hood after you lost and marvels at how exotic the engine is or how high it revs even though it is anemic enough to cause you a loss.

As far as 1M goes it is far more purer M car to me. That is because it does not weigh as much as some much purer M engine cars you mentioned. Bottom line is M cars were awesome not because of engine or transmission or handling or practicality. But rather giving a great blend of all the above factors in a grin inducing great package and this is what 1M does successfully after reading many different reviews.

The N54 is a great engine regardless of the fact that it is not created by M division. It provides solid performance with great fuel mileage which none of the engines you describe could ever do. It has far greater mod ability for a lot less $$$$$. Which means that 1M when properly modded will show all those true M engine cars tail lights without burning a hole in your pocket. 1M has the ability of being a great daily driver that gives decent a gas mileage.

If you just care for high revving engines then get a super sport class motorcycle and for $12K you will swear you had the best engine you could ever have with its near 11K redline.

Originally Posted by mhrir

I reluctantly accept that the times are changing and BMW has had to give up RPMs and go with forced induction for the M cars. But I disagree that M cars are not about engines. Consider the S62 M5, S65B40 M3, S85B50 M5/M6, and S54B32 M3/Z3M/Z4M. All to an engine were (and still are) very special techno wonders that are high-rpm screamers. The S54 at 8,000 rpm? Not a problem.

Only recently has there been the disturbing trend of M badged vehicles with engines shared with other non-M cars. I tried to look past it with the X5M/X6M but to piss away something that could have been truly special in the 1M is disappointing. There is no special engine for this car, just the leftovers from the 335is and Z4 35is.

If you do all of that it is not 135i any more it will be one hell of a good 1 series. It would give not only M cars but many cars a run for their money. So what is your point driving a great performance car or just oogling over how high the engine revs or brag to your buddies that your engine was designed by M division.

Originally Posted by Justin T

OK, so I will buy a 135, swap the suspension, put a limited slip diff, chip it, sell the rims/tires and buy the competition rims/tires, and put some M badges on the back... We good?

Originally Posted by zhan

if you are looking for a serious enthusiast car why not just get a E46 M3 ZCP or a Z4MC...
those are real M cars....
i think M has deviated from its core values... and the only real Ms are the ones before the current/future models

The 1M is lighter and more powerful and way faster then the E46 M3. Weight wise the 1M falls between the E30 M3 and the E36 M3. The 1M is the Highest Torque M Motor six ever produced.

The Z4MC is one of the ugliest BMW ever made IMO and this is why they did sit on dealers lots and why there are no more Z M cars.

Now why would I bother with either?

I would say the 1M is closest to the iconic E30 M3 for which it was created.

There have been M cars in the past that have used an engine shared by other non-M models...so nothing new there, and in the case of the 1M I think BMW took the right approach.

Originally Posted by Kayani_1

If you do all of that it is not 135i any more it will be one hell of a good 1 series. It would give not only M cars but many cars a run for their money. So what is your point driving a great performance car or just oogling over how high the engine revs or brag to your buddies that your engine was designed by M division.

I have an E90 M3 and a 135.

My point is, I can go out and make the 135 essentially the 1M for not a heck of a lot of money (chip, coil-overs, diff, rims, bodykit, badges).

Can't take a 335 sedan and make it an M3 unless you want to forklift in the S65 and do everything else (brakes, M suspension, diff, etc). I imagine a new S65 costs around $15K to $20K... Now, you can take some tuner's chip, intake, exhaust combo, put them in and roll the dice, but after 2.5 years with the S65, I will take it bone stock.

The motor is pretty important...

http://paultan.org/2007/03/23/the-ne...pecifications/

Originally Posted by Justin T

I have an E90 M3 and a 135.

My point is, I can go out and make the 135 essentially the 1M for not a heck of a lot of money (chip, coil-overs, diff, rims, bodykit, badges).

Can't take a 335 sedan and make it an M3 unless you want to forklift in the S65 and do everything else (brakes, M suspension, diff, etc). I imagine a new S65 costs around $15K to $20K... Now, you can take some tuner's chip, intake, exhaust combo, put them in and roll the dice, but after 2.5 years with the S65, I will take it bone stock.

The motor is pretty important...

http://paultan.org/2007/03/23/the-ne...pecifications/

I think you are about as wrong as you can be. The difference is that the M engineers, the same ones that created the E90 M3 have designed all components of the 1M to work together as a package vs buying a bunch of aftermarket parts and slapping them on a 135.
I would challenge you to price out the same based equipped 135i vs the 1M after adding all parts to the 135i and see how much you save. Again it still won't be the 1M.


As far as making a 335i an equal to the E90 M3 you can use the same logic you are using about the 135, buy all the aftermarket parts for the 335i including as software update that matches the V8 in HP and far exceeds the V8 in Torque. Dinan has already done this to both the 135i and the 335i but neither are engineered from the M group to have all components work as well together.

The other missing issue is that the 135i has sold since 2008 and is still for sale. The 1M will only be made this year and in very limited numbers making it a very special car.

Maybe you are missing my point or maybe I did not make my point clearly enough...

Yeah, the M division took the car and put together the rest of the package. They did this by bolting on a bunch of E9X M3 pieces to it and by using the "is" motor. Its like BMW's version of a kit car.

Would I rock one, sure! I dig the car (and maybe this is what is not coming through) but I think the M division copped out quite a bit.

With regards to the 335 to M3 discussion...go for it. Put a whole host of tuner stuff under the hood and roll the dice. I'll keep my S65 (even though it drinks gas) and the rest of the M division's "ground up" engineering effort.

You can not go and make 135i essentially 1M without spending a lot of money. 1M is as M as it can get. The entire suspension, cooling parts, brakes, wheels/tires, computer management and the chassis is designed by M division. The body panels and interior is M specific. Even the color it comes in is M specific. Also, the N54 twin turbo inline-6 is tuned by M division for its throttle response, hp & torque curves for superior track performance compared to a run of the mill 135i.

Just by the time you add the wide body kit and the labor to make one off 135i that resembles 1M from all directions you will be close to the price of a 1M. Just try chopping your M3 suspension and chassis out to make it fit under your 135i and the labor will pop your eyes open at how expensive it is cost and time wise..... forget the parts.

If one wants to get negative then you can easily say S62 V8 is a nothing special. It is only a 2 cylinders chopped off version of the M5/M6 S85 V10 that they shoe horned into M3. Anyways I do not think in those terms. But if you want to put some thing good down you can do it for various wrong reasons. If engine is what makes a car then I guess those M3's and Z4M with a S85 under the hood must be far more M then any S65 V8 M3. If money is not an issue you can get S65 fitted under the hood of a regular 3 series. But my question is why would you do that .......because a properly modified N54 twin turbo can easily compete with S65 for overall hp or torque M specific or not.

So I am sorry to say that but your point makes little sense. Because if you think an M car is all about an engine then your definition of M car and mine is very different. An M car is about its overall driving dynamics, practicality, and fun factor and not just the engine. The purpose of M division is not making M specific engines. But rather cars that are far more fun with great driving dynamics compared to their non-M factory stock counter parts. In this case all M cars have been successful in past including the all new 1M.

Last but not least a car with great driving dynamics regardless of M or not is still a great car in my opinion. A better car is a better car period. If you can turn your 135i into a car that is better then 1M or M3 or any M car for cheaper....... then hey all power to you. Just cause your fixed up 135i does not have an M badge does not mean it would not be equally good car given it can give 1M a run for its money in fun factor and driving dynamics.

Now I would be a lot more upset if they had designed another hyper performance engine that would be anemic on low end and bad in fuel economy. A good engine is also a good engine regardless of M or non M-specific. I do feel like the only place they cooped out was that they could have easily given it a 370-380hp and 370 Ib-ft of torque at all times and not in just few seconds bursts. But then this car would walk away from $65K M3's like they were stuck in glue.

Originally Posted by Justin T

I have an E90 M3 and a 135.

My point is, I can go out and make the 135 essentially the 1M for not a heck of a lot of money (chip, coil-overs, diff, rims, bodykit, badges).

Can't take a 335 sedan and make it an M3 unless you want to forklift in the S65 and do everything else (brakes, M suspension, diff, etc). I imagine a new S65 costs around $15K to $20K... Now, you can take some tuner's chip, intake, exhaust combo, put them in and roll the dice, but after 2.5 years with the S65, I will take it bone stock.

The motor is pretty important...

http://paultan.org/2007/03/23/the-ne...pecifications/

Originally Posted by redadair

The 1M will only be made this year and in very limited numbers making it a very special car.

Is this true? Is the 1M only going to be made this year?

Originally Posted by krsabs

Is this true? Is the 1M only going to be made this year?

Yes, March through December. That is why it is being sold as a 2011, yet if you go to the BMW N/A web site and look at any other 1 series they are all being sold as 2012.

The 1M has the N54 Twin Turbo engine in it while the current 135i has the N55 Single Turbo. It is looking like the N54 Engine in the 1M won't meet 2012 US Emission regulations. This is one of the main reasons the 1M is a 9 - 10 month minus BMW plant closing for holidays only build for 2011 only.

Only 450 total cars for all of the UK, US imports of Approximately ~800 cars the balance for the rest of the world.
All 1M's are being produced at BMW's Leipzig plant, which also produces the X1 and 1series coupes and convertibles. They are literally squeezing the production in as openings are made since the plant is at production limits. The new X1 has been a HUGE success in Europe, they can't make enough to import to US this year as was planned.

http://www.bmw-plant-leipzig.com/lei.../en/index.html

Originally Posted by Kayani_1

You can not go and make 135i essentially 1M without spending a lot of money. 1M is as M as it can get. The entire suspension, cooling parts, brakes, wheels/tires, computer management and the chassis is designed by M division. The body panels and interior is M specific. Even the color it comes in is M specific. Also, the N54 twin turbo inline-6 is tuned by M division for its throttle response, hp & torque curves for superior track performance compared to a run of the mill 135i.

Just by the time you add the wide body kit and the labor to make one off 135i that resembles 1M from all directions you will be close to the price of a 1M. Just try chopping your M3 suspension and chassis out to make it fit under your 135i and the labor will pop your eyes open at how expensive it is cost and time wise..... forget the parts.

If one want to get negative then you can easily say S62 V8 is a nothing special. It is only a 2 cylinders chopped off version of the M5/M6 S85 V10 that they shoe horned into M3. Anyways I do not think those terms. But if you want to put some thing good down you can do it for various wrong reasons. If engine is what makes a car then I guess those M3's and Z4M with a S85 under the hood must be far more M then any S65 V8 M3. If money is not an issue you can get S65 fitted under the hood of a regular 3 series. But my question is why would you do that .......because N54 twin turbo can easily compete with S65 for overall hp or torque M specific or not.

So I am sorry to say that but your point makes little sense. Because if you think an M car is all about an engine then your definition of M car and mine is very different. An M car is about its overall driving dynamics, practicality, and fun factor and not just the engine. The purpose of M division is not making M specific engines. But rather cars that are far more fun with great driving dynamics compared to their non-M factory stock counter parts. In this case all M cars have been successful in past including the all new 1M.

Last but not least a car with great driving dynamics regardless of M or not is still a great car in my opinion. A better car is a better car period. If you can turn your 135i into a car that is better then 1M or M3 or any M car for cheaper....... then hey all power to you. Just cause your fixed up 135i does not have an M badge does not mean it would not be equally good car given it can give 1M a run for its money in fun factor and driving dynamics.

Now I would be a lot more upset if they had designed another hyper performance engine that would be anemic on low end and bad in fuel economy. A good engine is also a good engine regardless of M or non M-specific. I do feel like the only place they cooped out was that they could have easily given it a 370-380hp and 370 Ib-ft of torque at all times and not in just few seconds bursts. But then this car would walk away from $65K M3's like they were stuck in glue.

Blah blah blah...

It is still the M version of a kit car. Take a motor from the non-M BMW, take bits and pieces of the M3 and bolt them on. Grab the M3 ZCP wheels/tires. Flare the fenders, slap on different valences. OK, ready for market.

As I posted, I dig the car. Just a tad bit disappointed at its genesis.