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E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

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  #1  
Old 11-10-2014, 06:59 PM
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16valex 16valex is offline
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Single Mass Flywheel Gripforce Clutch Kit

This job is definitely for the pro. I've been fighting with it every step of the way, but as they always say..There's light at the end of the tunnel.

Enjoy some pics.
Hope to be back soon for some review.





New Single mass flywheel




New clutch


New Pressure plate before removal of locking plate



New pressure plate after locking plate removed.
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Last edited by 16valex; 11-10-2014 at 07:24 PM.
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  #2  
Old 11-10-2014, 09:45 PM
occhis occhis is offline
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So what were some of the problems you were having?
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Old 11-11-2014, 04:29 AM
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16valex 16valex is offline
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Originally Posted by occhis View Post
So what were some of the problems you were having?
Nothing out of the ordinary just a some slippage due to age and at 160 K miles it's time for a new clutch.
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Old 11-11-2014, 05:15 AM
uncmozo uncmozo is offline
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I think occhis meant 'what kind of problems did you have during the installation'? You said it was a tough install and it fought you every step of the way.

Jerry
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  #5  
Old 11-11-2014, 05:29 AM
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16valex 16valex is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uncmozo View Post
I think occhis meant 'what kind of problems did you have during the installation'? You said it was a tough install and it fought you every step of the way.

Jerry
Oh my mistake.

First it was exhaust flanges seized and frozen broken studs. Then, stripped bolt and stuck alternator. Maybe it doesn't sound bad but given the access it is a PITA.
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  #6  
Old 11-11-2014, 06:45 AM
Jase007 Jase007 is offline
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Nice job 16valex.

Is the single mass flywheel ~ 26lbs like the OEM/SACHs/LUK dual-mass flywheel?

Valeo's single mass flywheel solution is approximately the same weight as the OEM/SACHs/LUK dual-mass flywheel.

Did you do the rear main seal while you are in there?

Transmission input, selector shaft, etc.. seals?

Good Luck!
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  #7  
Old 11-11-2014, 06:49 AM
mda185 mda185 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 16valex View Post
Oh my mistake.

First it was exhaust flanges seized and frozen broken studs. Then, stripped bolt and stuck alternator. Maybe it doesn't sound bad but given the access it is a PITA.
Some years ago, I had same problem with exhaust studs on my 535i 5 speed and drilling those suckers out after they broke was one of the most difficult jobs I have ever done because of difficult access. Looking back, I would remove the exhaust manifolds and drill them on my workbench if it ever happens again. Very interested to hear what you think of the Gripforce setup you installed.
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  #8  
Old 11-11-2014, 09:55 AM
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16valex 16valex is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jase007 View Post
Nice job 16valex.

Is the single mass flywheel ~ 26lbs like the OEM/SACHs/LUK dual-mass flywheel?

Valeo's single mass flywheel solution is approximately the same weight as the OEM/SACHs/LUK dual-mass flywheel.

Did you do the rear main seal while you are in there?

Transmission input, selector shaft, etc.. seals?

Good Luck!
Thank you Jase007.
The SM flywheel from Gripforce is about 16 LBS not exact weigh but that is why I went with them a little lighter not too light like aluminum ones they can be grabby and jerky.

I sent out to replace all them seals but ended up only replaced the rear crank main seal and selector shaft because they were leaky. The input and output seals weren't leaking and all the heartaches I ran into I kind of beat so I took a chance and rolled my dices.

Quote:
Some years ago, I had same problem with exhaust studs on my 535i 5 speed and drilling those suckers out after they broke was one of the most difficult jobs I have ever done because of difficult access. Looking back, I would remove the exhaust manifolds and drill them on my workbench if it ever happens again. Very interested to hear what you think of the Gripforce setup you installed.
I have to agree with you 100 percent. I hate drilling broken manifold studs with a vengeance.

Luckily, I hit them with Acetylene and some medium hammer they came right out. I said to myself someone loved me!

Yeah! I can't wait to try it out, but I must take it easy for breaking period 750 miles.

I didn't realize this setup came with self adjusting pressure plate and made by Luk! WTH!!!

I'm hope this self adjusting pressure plate is not the same strength as the Luk that came with our cars, I was hoping for heavier. Does anybody know is it the same pressure?

Last edited by 16valex; 11-11-2014 at 10:00 AM.
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  #9  
Old 11-11-2014, 11:55 AM
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16valex 16valex is offline
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Starter Pin of Death

Spent the last two hours struggled with the starter because of the pin. Decided to remove the pin, wish I had thought of this when the transmission was still out would have been a piece of cake but no, got to do it the hard way of course.

Do yourself a favor remove the starter pin to save you headache.
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  #10  
Old 11-11-2014, 03:02 PM
mda185 mda185 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 16valex View Post
Spent the last two hours struggled with the starter because of the pin. Decided to remove the pin, wish I had thought of this when the transmission was still out would have been a piece of cake but no, got to do it the hard way of course.

Do yourself a favor remove the starter pin to save you headache.
This is a problem I ran into when I installed new clutch and starter on the S52 engine I swapped into my E34. That pin was too large to fit into the hole on the new starter. After much swearing and pushing, I removed the starter and drilled out the hole to a larger diameter. I wonder what is up with that? Are our cars so old that Bosch is making starters to a different spec now and this problem will always occur?
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Old 11-11-2014, 03:09 PM
Burning2nd Burning2nd is offline
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never waste time on studs (except the ones on the head)

if you cant pound a socket on over the rushed head, and impact the nut off in like 31 seconds.. just go strait to cut..

once its out you drill it.. clean it up.. and go with new hardware
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  #12  
Old 11-11-2014, 03:09 PM
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16valex 16valex is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mda185 View Post
This is a problem I ran into when I installed new clutch and starter on the S52 engine I swapped into my E34. That pin was too large to fit into the hole on the new starter. After much swearing and pushing, I removed the starter and drilled out the hole to a larger diameter. I wonder what is up with that? Are our cars so old that Bosch is making starters to a different spec now and this problem will always occur?
Selfishly speaking glad to hear someone can related to my pain.

Anyway, the driver shaft is on with new Giubo and CV joint.
Can't work anymore, gotta take the boy to scout event.
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  #13  
Old 11-11-2014, 04:12 PM
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Congrats on your progress, Alex. Everything in the pics looks real good. I totally agree with your selection of seals to change. The rear main is really important. I don't think I've ever removed a manual tranny without seeing a leaking shift shaft seal so that's a must too.

I've been flamed bad on this forum for suggesting using an oxy/acet torch to deal with rusted fasteners. Before I bought my setup, I got stuck for days trying to deal with rusted nuts and bolts. Many times I ended up at a local garage with the broken rusted fasteners still stuck in the part and the shop would have the part back to me in minutes after using their torch. Propane is simply not hot enough. Serious heat always makes an impossible job easy like those exhaust studs. No hours of drilling. Just heat and a whack. Congrats again and end of rant.

Edit: BTW that starter pin sounds ridiculous. I'm thankful that I haven't had to deal with that yet?

Last edited by johnstern; 11-11-2014 at 04:16 PM.
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  #14  
Old 11-11-2014, 09:15 PM
Jase007 Jase007 is offline
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Quote:
I didn't realize this setup came with self adjusting pressure plate and made by Luk! WTH!!
When I saw that in your pics I was surprised.

I believe the Valeo single mass flywheel conversion is setup with sprung hubbed clutch disc and a standard (non-SAC) pressure plate.

I have had a new LUK DMF and SAC in there for a few years. I wish the reasonably $$$'d, ~ 20 lb - Single MF, sprung hubbed clutch disc and standard non-SAC PP conversion was around when I replaced mine.

Even with all new components after the clutch job (DMF, clutch repset, seals, bushings, pivot pin, TO Bearing, guide tube, master and slave cylinders, etc...) I can say that my touring has the worst clutch "feel" / takeup and engagement of any standard shift car I own or have owned. (cable operated - Porsche 356, 911, hydraulic non-sac E3, E28, E30 325ix, etc...).



Quote:
Selfishly speaking glad to hear someone can related to my pain.
That @#$$#$ pin held me up on re-assembly as well. Ended up pulling it and sanding off the rust / pitting and reinstalling with anti-seize on now smaller pin.
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  #15  
Old 11-11-2014, 11:43 PM
mda185 mda185 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jase007 View Post
When I saw that in your pics I was surprised.

I believe the Valeo single mass flywheel conversion is setup with sprung hubbed clutch disc and a standard (non-SAC) pressure plate.

I have had a new LUK DMF and SAC in there for a few years. I wish the reasonably $$$'d, ~ 20 lb - Single MF, sprung hubbed clutch disc and standard non-SAC PP conversion was around when I replaced mine.

Even with all new components after the clutch job (DMF, clutch repset, seals, bushings, pivot pin, TO Bearing, guide tube, master and slave cylinders, etc...) I can say that my touring has the worst clutch "feel" / takeup and engagement of any standard shift car I own or have owned. (cable operated - Porsche 356, 911, hydraulic non-sac E3, E28, E30 325ix, etc...).





That @#$$#$ pin held me up on re-assembly as well. Ended up pulling it and sanding off the rust / pitting and reinstalling with anti-seize on now smaller pin.
I have not replaced the clutch on my 03 530i yet and am interested in what folks provide in terms of feedback. I can say that the UUC aluminum flywheel with Sachs E34 M5 clutch disc and pressure plate I installed on my 95 E34 Touring with 3.2 liter S52 engine has fantastic feel with very gradual and smooth takeup and engagement. It is more expensive than the Gripforce and Valeo kits but if you catch it on sale, the cost delta is not as bad. I think I paid $850 a couple of years ago. I am still not sure what I will install on the E39 but my DM flywheel is acting up and I can't put this off forever. Previous owner replaced clutch disk and pressure plate at 115K miles but kept original DM flywheel. Now, at 145K miles, I am getting a shudder in 4th or 5th gear around 2200 rpm that I am fairly certain is the DM flywheel.
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Last edited by mda185; 11-11-2014 at 11:45 PM.
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  #16  
Old 11-12-2014, 06:13 AM
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16valex 16valex is offline
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Well, got it all done last night. First impression is very good, none of the gear chatter or throw out bearing noise exist which makes me a happy man.

However, taking off from stop is something I have to get used to, maybe the clutch is now grips much quicker and thus easier to stall out if you're not a throttle blipper guy.

I also notice a strange oscillation in third gear at low RPM less than 2 K RPM, the oscillation sounds like someone has just hit the defrost button on your climate control, it's kind of weird all of certain a sound of full blown blower speed, but it doesn't happens all the time. I think this problem could have created by me removing the damper from the muffler, I'm going to put it back and see what happen.

All and all I'm very happy, I can't wait for breaking period to end so I can find out what this thing has to offer. Ha ha.

PS, if anyone is going to install this kit, make sure you temporary shim the clutch before you release the pressure plate in order to center the clutch for better alignment for the transmission install. I don't think the alignment tool is good enough, the tool is loose so the clutch will fall down even with the alignment tool in place

Happy camper.

Last edited by 16valex; 11-12-2014 at 06:18 AM.
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  #17  
Old 11-12-2014, 06:36 AM
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16valex 16valex is offline
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Quote:
Even with all new components after the clutch job (DMF, clutch repset, seals, bushings, pivot pin, TO Bearing, guide tube, master and slave cylinders, etc...) I can say that my touring has the worst clutch "feel" / takeup and engagement of any standard shift car I own or have owned. (cable operated - Porsche 356, 911, hydraulic non-sac E3, E28, E30 325ix, etc...).
Sorry to hear that Jase007. I know what you mean. Compare to the 530 my 97- 528 is POS. when it comes to clutch feeling at the beginning but it gets better over time but this maybe because I didn't replace the flywheel.

Quote:
I have not replaced the clutch on my 03 530i yet and am interested in what folks provide in terms of feedback. I can say that the UUC aluminum flywheel with Sachs E34 M5 clutch disc and pressure plate I installed on my 95 E34 Touring with 3.2 liter S52 engine has fantastic feel with very gradual and smooth takeup and engagement. It is more expensive than the Gripforce and Valeo kits but if you catch it on sale, the cost delta is not as bad. I think I paid $850 a couple of years ago. I am still not sure what I will install on the E39 but my DM flywheel is acting up and I can't put this off forever. Previous owner replaced clutch disk and pressure plate at 115K miles but kept original DM flywheel. Now, at 145K miles, I am getting a shudder in 4th or 5th gear around 2200 rpm that I am fairly certain is the DM flywheel.
Nice to hear you like the UUC, yeah they are expensive every time I look at the price.

With the Gripforce setup so far it has been a very smooth.

Quote:
Congrats on your progress, Alex. Everything in the pics looks real good. I totally agree with your selection of seals to change. The rear main is really important. I don't think I've ever removed a manual tranny without seeing a leaking shift shaft seal so that's a must too.

I've been flamed bad on this forum for suggesting using an oxy/acet torch to deal with rusted fasteners. Before I bought my setup, I got stuck for days trying to deal with rusted nuts and bolts. Many times I ended up at a local garage with the broken rusted fasteners still stuck in the part and the shop would have the part back to me in minutes after using their torch. Propane is simply not hot enough. Serious heat always makes an impossible job easy like those exhaust studs. No hours of drilling. Just heat and a whack. Congrats again and end of rant.

Edit: BTW that starter pin sounds ridiculous. I'm thankful that I haven't had to deal with that yet?
Thanks John,

For a shade tree mechanic heat is your friend, not very body has an air hammer.
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Old 11-12-2014, 07:47 AM
mda185 mda185 is online now
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16valex, very glad to hear you like it so far. Please post back after break in period to let us know how it is then.
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  #19  
Old 11-12-2014, 08:40 AM
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16valex 16valex is offline
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16valex, very glad to hear you like it so far. Please post back after break in period to let us know how it is then.
Will do.
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Old 11-12-2014, 03:41 PM
Burning2nd Burning2nd is offline
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you should try to be ez on the clutch for the first 1000 miles...

you dont even have to use the clutch once you pull out
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  #21  
Old 11-16-2014, 12:23 PM
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16valex 16valex is offline
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Partial Review

The good news is it's getting better everyday as the miles are piling on.

The clutch engagement is almost instantaneously. You can really feel a huge different especially when down shift and engine braking you can definite feel the torque.

Taking off from a stop is something I still have to get used to but it is getting easier and easier may be because I'm used to it or maybe the clutch has finally break in.

I'm glad that the single mass weighs 16 LBS because anything less would be for the track not for a DD. But, then again this is just IMO. I believe due the light weight of the SM, lugging the engine is a no no. As the old saying every action there's a re-action, and I found that to be so true in this case, with the 16 LBS SM flywheel it likes to be on the powered side when up-shifting above 2500 RPM, if you up-shift under 2000 RPM you will feel the engine's lugging and shakes. You're no long can be casual and take it easy like and old man as with old heavier flywheel. You can still do it but it may takes a precise control of your gas throttle, the lighter the flywheel the unforgiving it will be.

I can't wait to punch it but I must refrain myself ha ha. I'm loving it so far, the new kit really brings back the smile on my face every time I hit the road.

Be back in another 400 miles to finish the rest.
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  #22  
Old 11-16-2014, 02:48 PM
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johnstern johnstern is offline
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So glad you're having success with this setup. After driving cars with single mass flywheels for all these years, I still really can't get used to the DMF in my E39. I do OK and shift smoothly but deep down I'm not at one with the car.

There is really no chance that I'll change my clutch unless it's worn out. I'm just lusting for that direct connection.
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  #23  
Old 11-16-2014, 03:50 PM
pshovest pshovest is offline
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The low mass makes launching more difficult. You'll get used to it.
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  #24  
Old 11-16-2014, 04:09 PM
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16valex 16valex is offline
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Originally Posted by pshovest View Post
The low mass makes launching more difficult. You'll get used to it.
Yup! I'm glad my SM is not any lighter, and you're right I'll get used to it soon, I think I already have.

Quote:
So glad you're having success with this setup. After driving cars with single mass flywheels for all these years, I still really can't get used to the DMF in my E39. I do OK and shift smoothly but deep down I'm not at one with the car.
Glad I took Randy's advise to go with GripForce's kit, and I'm glad I picked Racing Stage 3. The car is definitely nimble to say the least.
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  #25  
Old 11-16-2014, 05:28 PM
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johnstern johnstern is offline
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Originally Posted by 16valex View Post
Glad I took Randy's advise to go with GripForce's kit, and I'm glad I picked Racing Stage 3. The car is definitely nimble to say the least.
Yeah! I'm envious. Lol
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