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E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

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  #1  
Old 05-02-2009, 12:58 AM
bananaman bananaman is offline
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E39 tailgate window won't open

I know this is a rather old problem, but I can't find a solution. The tailgate window on my 528 touring won't open. No obvious wire breaks or fuses blown. I cannot get the trim off to fault find, as you need to get the window open to do that! I did bore an exploratory hole in the trim beneath the tool tray in an attempt to reach the actuator (I've read somewhere that this is possible), but I cannot identify the right location. Does anybody have any suggestions? Thanks.

PS. If anybody has a picture of the tailgate with the trim panel removed, then that may be helpful and maybe I can identify where to find the actuator lever.

Last edited by bananaman; 05-02-2009 at 01:07 AM. Reason: Add a comment
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  #2  
Old 05-02-2009, 10:01 AM
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QSilver7 QSilver7 is online now
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Have you tried removing the handle which is incorporated into the rear wiper? I believe there is a torx screw...let me dig up the diagram from realoem...yep it's #15 in the diagram below:

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...75&hg=61&fg=45

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~
Then there's the diagram for the hatch...perhaps something will help you figure out how to access the actuator etc:

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...80&hg=41&fg=60
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  #3  
Old 05-02-2009, 10:46 AM
bananaman bananaman is offline
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QSilver7,
Thanks for your reply. My car is a 98 528 and according to realoem, the wiper assy is somewhat different from the one you showed. realoem matches mine when I put my serial number in. After I remove the wiper arm, there is no more disassembly possible without opening the window.

Also, I have seen the second picture you posted, but it just isn't detailed enough for me to make out the component locations. Ah well.... One thing I did discover today is that when I press the button, there is a faint click coming from inside the tailgate in the region of the lock. From that, I concluded that the opening button microswitch is probably working OK - so thats one thing out of the way. I am working on the assumption that something is getting energised in the lock mechanism, but it is stuck. It's at that point that 4x4s decided to grind up the road so I couldn't hear a damn thing any more! Thanks for the help.
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  #4  
Old 05-02-2009, 03:27 PM
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BlackBMWs BlackBMWs is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bananaman View Post
QSilver7,
Thanks for your reply. My car is a 98 528 and according to realoem, the wiper assy is somewhat different from the one you showed. realoem matches mine when I put my serial number in. After I remove the wiper arm, there is no more disassembly possible without opening the window.

Also, I have seen the second picture you posted, but it just isn't detailed enough for me to make out the component locations. Ah well.... One thing I did discover today is that when I press the button, there is a faint click coming from inside the tailgate in the region of the lock. From that, I concluded that the opening button microswitch is probably working OK - so thats one thing out of the way. I am working on the assumption that something is getting energised in the lock mechanism, but it is stuck. It's at that point that 4x4s decided to grind up the road so I couldn't hear a damn thing any more! Thanks for the help.
Which trim panel are you wanting a picture of? The window hatch or the receiver for the window hatch? I can take a break and snap a few shots for you...
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1984 533i - Schwarz/Schwarz, 17" style 65 reps
1997 318ti Sport - Schwartz II/Schwartz Anthratz, style 68 rims
1995 318ti Sport - Schwartz II/Schwartz Anthratz, style 27 rims
1994 325i Sedan - Bostongrau/Tan
1991 318ic - Schwarz/Anthratz Stoff
1985 635CSI - Schwartz\Sand - Sold
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  #5  
Old 05-03-2009, 01:28 AM
bananaman bananaman is offline
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Hi,
Thanks for your reply. Actually, what I was hoping for was a picture of the area with the trim panel removed. Just thought someone may have one. The area in question is around the tailgate wiper motor and lock - where the lower edge of the window meets the upper edge of the tailgate. (It's a '98 528 Touring). Beneath the trim panel is the wiper motor, window lock and actuator.

It is accessed from the inside of the tailgate, after removing the drop-down tool tray. It would only be possible to get a useful pic if the trim panel was already removed and doing that is painful enough. Just thought someone may have a shot or two. The basic problem is that if your window is stuck shut, then you cannot access certain screws in order to remove the trim and try to fix the problem! These screws can only be got at by opening the window.
Thanks again.
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  #6  
Old 05-03-2009, 05:59 AM
bananaman bananaman is offline
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Update:

Finally got the window open. Problem was, the required lever was staring me in the face and I couldn't recognise it. So, at the cost of a 1.5 inch hole in an unobtrusive part of the trim (beneath the tool box), I finally got it open. So I could finally diagnose the problem and it turns out it WAS the microswitch button that opens the window. At least that is lower cost than the actuator or the lock mechanism. If anybody has a similar problem and wants more detailed instructions, or a picture or two, just let me know. Thanks for the responses.
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  #7  
Old 05-03-2009, 07:30 AM
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Congrats on figuring it out. If you get a chance, post up a pic of the "lever". If I understand correctly...you're saying that this "lever" to release the glass hatch is located in the area beneath the tool box?
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  #8  
Old 05-03-2009, 08:07 AM
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BlackBMWs BlackBMWs is offline
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Pics are always a good thing! Glad you got it figured out! I would have tried to open mine up and snap a pic if you really needed it. Now back to my E28 DIY fun...
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1984 533i - Schwarz/Schwarz, 17" style 65 reps
1997 318ti Sport - Schwartz II/Schwartz Anthratz, style 68 rims
1995 318ti Sport - Schwartz II/Schwartz Anthratz, style 27 rims
1994 325i Sedan - Bostongrau/Tan
1991 318ic - Schwarz/Anthratz Stoff
1985 635CSI - Schwartz\Sand - Sold
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  #9  
Old 05-03-2009, 09:20 AM
bananaman bananaman is offline
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The lever is actually beneath the trim. The trim cannot be removed properly unless the window (touring) is open. Therefore, if your window won't open, you're screwed!

I was forced to bore an exploratory hole in the trim, beneath the drop down tool tray. Hopefully, If I have done this right, pictures are attached. I will explain:

Picture 1 is a view of the general area. the lid is up and the hole on the RHS is the tool tray hinge hole. The hole on the LHS was bored by me, the centre being precisely 105 mm from the left hand edge of the hingle hole.

Picture 2 is a close up of the new inspection hole. The dark mass on the RHS is black plastic and is the lock mechanism (I think). The band running top to bottom on the LHS is the lever. This is a strong sheet metal strip running from the actuator rod (hidden), to the lock mechanism (hidden). Simply insert a sizeable screwdriver on the RHS of the lever and push it leftwards. It's slow and heavy to move, presumably because of the gearing in the actuator. But suddenly, pop, the window opens.

If any body is crazy enough to repeat this procedure, remember, you can always drill a smaller hole, just enough to get the driver in and feel for the lever. Less of a mess than I caused and it is hidden under the toolbox.

Now, you may be wondering why I took a drill to my BMW, just to open the window. Well, last MOT (UK mandatory test), while checking the car, I found the rear wiper was seized. Frantic repair job prior to test as I knew it would probably fail on that. When the window is closed, there is no opportunity to repair. While the weather is good, I decided to tackle the issue, as I know the wiper will fail again pretty soon. I don't want to be throwing money at a problem with a test deadline in sight, so that is why I did this now. I can now source some replacement parts at my leisure.

By the way, the cause of the window failure was the microswitch button assembly. I was able to find that out after opening the window and without removing the trim. Thanks for all your interest and replies. Let me know if this isn't clear.
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  #10  
Old 03-30-2010, 02:33 AM
Pinochio Pinochio is offline
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Hi, I,m a new member here, so hello everyone! I just wanted to thank bananaman for his thread concerning a tailgate window that refused to open. After reading your solution I did a little dance around the computer. I had spoken to a number of poeple who all sucked there teeth and came up with ridiculous solutions. (including scrapping the car!) Anyway cheers guys, just hope I can contribute something useful in the future to help someone who is stuck.
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  #11  
Old 04-13-2010, 05:33 PM
dlatzko dlatzko is offline
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I have the same problem on my 2002 540it. How did you replace the microswitch?
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  #12  
Old 04-14-2010, 02:03 AM
Pinochio Pinochio is offline
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Hi dlazco, What happened to me was that I couldn't get the tailgate window open. I used the information from bananaman's thread to get the window open. After doing this I tried operating the micro switch button with the window open. Nothing happened so I assumed the microswitch was dead. I then (just out of curiosity) fiddled around with the latch mechanism, it looked a bit dryand a little rusty. I put a couple of drops of 3 in 1 oil into the mechanism and tried the button again and bingo. it worked! Consequently I didn't have to replace the micro switch. In fact I never found out how to remove the m/switch anyway. I realise I haven't been much help regarding the m/switch, but it might be worth trying what I did with the mechanism. Might also save you some money.
If anyone could enlighten us both about the location of the microswitch, I too would be very greatful. (for future reference)
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  #13  
Old 03-28-2011, 12:55 PM
andyiow andyiow is offline
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I know its an oldish thread but am currently trying to fix the glass hatch and wiper on my 2001 525D. Am taking pictures as I try to get to the source of the problem (which I think there are 3).

Her is a picture I took with the trim off which shows the mechanism and wiper motor


Issues I have are
1, Wiper spindle not turning (currently soaking in a penetrating oil)
2, Wiper motor not turning, not sure if you should be able to turn in my hand
3, Micro switch not opening tailgate on glass panel.
and rear water spray not working but might be linked to all the other bits.

Currently trying to go through each part logically.
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  #14  
Old 07-02-2011, 08:28 PM
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Redshift Redshift is offline
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Since this was the best thread I found on this topic, I wanted to post further information here. I had a similar problem where my rear glass would not open using the triangular button on the rear wiper arm. I was able to follow similar instructions to this thread and manually pop it open, but could not get the button to work.

A friend who is a shop foreman at a local BMW dealer suggested checking out the wires inside the hinge area because most likely they would be frayed and/or broken. Sure enough, I found this today when I took apart the plastic covers and dug around a bit:



Using a large metal clamp to hold the wiring bundle as far out of the hole as possible, and my trusty old Radio Shack soldering iron, I repaired the severed wire and re-taped several others that had cracks in the sheathing and voila! Everything works as it should now.
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  #15  
Old 07-02-2011, 09:19 PM
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jayster0966 jayster0966 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bananaman View Post
Update:

Finally got the window open. Problem was, the required lever was staring me in the face and I couldn't recognise it. So, at the cost of a 1.5 inch hole in an unobtrusive part of the trim (beneath the tool box), I finally got it open. So I could finally diagnose the problem and it turns out it WAS the microswitch button that opens the window. At least that is lower cost than the actuator or the lock mechanism. If anybody has a similar problem and wants more detailed instructions, or a picture or two, just let me know. Thanks for the responses.
Had to bookmark this thread friends. Never know when I may need it in the future. Thanks for the post and the solutions.
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  #16  
Old 07-04-2011, 05:49 AM
andyiow andyiow is offline
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After a nightmare few weeks at work I am now going to give an update.

Issues I have are
1, Wiper spindle not turning (currently soaking in a penetrating oil)
Resolution - The actual spindle was 'welded by all the corrosion between the ally and steel assembly. Gets a good squirt of grease every other weekend.
2, Wiper motor not turning, not sure if you should be able to turn in my hand.
Got a replacement motor not needed as after freeing the spindle it suddenly started to work. Note of caution though, when it started to work the wiper was incorrectly lined up. Had to remove it and then set wiper working again until it was in the correct stopped position
3, Micro switch not opening tailgate on glass panel.
This is definately broken as I can not get any continuity when the button pressed

and rear water spray not working but might be linked to all the other bits.
This now works once I had resoldered a broken wire on each side. However lead free solder just does not flow as well as the flus cored standard solder.
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  #17  
Old 08-09-2011, 09:09 AM
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Sorry to ressurect this old thread, but...

now i have this problem. I suspect the solenoid on the switch. But can you change out just the switch from the "outside", i.e, once I remove that little plastic cover and take the pieces apart, can I get the new switch in from outside the car? I know this sounds stupid, but for those who have attempted it, perhaps it will makes sense. Thanks if you can help.
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  #18  
Old 01-28-2012, 07:55 PM
mfiver mfiver is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinR View Post
now i have this problem. I suspect the solenoid on the switch. But can you change out just the switch from the "outside", i.e, once I remove that little plastic cover and take the pieces apart, can I get the new switch in from outside the car? I know this sounds stupid, but for those who have attempted it, perhaps it will makes sense. Thanks if you can help.
Reopening old thread here......

Has anyone figured out how to replace the microswitch?
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  #19  
Old 01-28-2012, 08:00 PM
mfiver mfiver is offline
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bananaman states:

The basic problem is that if your window is stuck shut, then you cannot access certain screws in order to remove the trim and try to fix the problem! These screws can only be got at by opening the window.


andyiow shows:

photo of hatch trim off in post #13, but states that 3."Micro switch not opening tailgate on glass panel"



So Andylow - how didi you manage to remove the interior hatch trim with opening your glass?
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  #20  
Old 04-20-2013, 10:58 AM
finnstru finnstru is offline
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Electrical fault finding & wiper axel corroded/stuck.

Just adding some info for electrical fault finding on this Problem (E39 pre 98) :

Right rear side inside, cover off, above battery/fuses, on Touring there are 2 black relays. The first one K70 is for opening the door, the second K90 for opening the window.

On pages ELE-829 and ELE-830 in vol 2 of the huge Bentley manuals you will find the circuit diagram, if you have this you may extract the relay and short circut the switch terminals (only do this if you know what you're doing, and at your own risk), in my case that proved the window opening motor working.

Go to http://www.bmw-planet.com/diagrams/r...9old/index.htm using Mozilla Firefox and searching for S170, K70, K90 and X11288 wil also help you out significantly (You can see diagrams and location there).

At the moment I've given up getting the outside (wiper located) housing for the S170 switch loos, as it's completely corroded.

I initially thought my wiper motor was not working, but it was the axle completely corroded from the outside, the motor was working fine.

I suspect that the control module may be smart enough to not operate things when they are in a state (door/window open for instance) where you would normaly not want to operate them, but that's just me guessing.

Any idea on how to get the last remaining parts there appart when they're coroded together ? (I guess the inside bracket will break if I use significant force on it).

I just disconnected X11288 and shortcircuted with a screw driver, and up it went (possibly need to insert the lock cone/bolt to do that, and take care, as it jumps out with force when released). And on my care the cables going through the hinges obviously has been replaced previously all of them. So the current conclusion is that there is a cable connector just inside the S170 switch which don't have conntact becauze of corrosion. Remains to confirm that. And currently I can't get it appart.

Last edited by finnstru; 04-20-2013 at 12:39 PM. Reason: Improved info.
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  #21  
Old 07-03-2014, 05:19 PM
Walopower Walopower is offline
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Hi, My Rear window Switch won't work, so I check flex wires and there was some insulator breaks. I tape those and verified that problem was windows switch. There was no other symtoms.
I dissassemble covers and rear wiper axle, but I can't remove washer that keeps swich case in place. It is heavily corroded, I think it is not a regular washer and seems that it pile switch case to around window hole?
If I want to change swich, may I need to grind both axle house and swich away? Components will cost around 100.
#11 is problem washer:

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...61&fg=45&hl=11
If I grind washer away, I need also new #5, witch cost 65.

But I check that window signal go to tail gate rear control box pin 4.
I think that if I assemble some regular switch to tail gate side, then it is not so easy to open in daily use, but then switch is cheap to replace and then I don't need open wiper house at all and not need to spend 100.

I also added steel wire witch open tail window from same hole than tail gate emergency opener.

Last edited by Walopower; 07-03-2014 at 05:32 PM.
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  #22  
Old 07-03-2014, 11:00 PM
finnstru finnstru is offline
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Coroded

Yes, it was heavily corroded. There should be remains of a outer nut that needs to be unscrewed though. Sorry but I no longer recall the exact steps. ... I had to replace the switch (buy a new one).
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  #23  
Old 07-04-2014, 03:12 AM
pudl pudl is offline
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I'll just leave this here...

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  #24  
Old 07-04-2014, 08:32 AM
Walopower Walopower is offline
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Great detailed images, thank you!
I can see that washer maybe difficult to remove without force.
And I don't want to use it, because whole window may break!
I will put more oil to it and try again.
It is sad that car manufacturers does't use grease enought.
Maybe in axle was been little amount of grease, but not in any threads!
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  #25  
Old 07-04-2014, 08:44 AM
pudl pudl is offline
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You do not need to remove washer 11 to remove any parts. Washers usually just sit there. They don't hold anything together.
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