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E90/E92/E93 M3 (2008 - 2014)
4th generation E90 M3 sedan, E92 M3 coupe and E93 M3 convertible. The last of the naturally aspirated M3s, powered by a 4.0 liter V8 making 414hp and 295 lb-ft of torque.

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  #51  
Old 04-17-2011, 06:33 AM
ksoze ksoze is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AKAGodSent View Post
It's an E93. I don't know the details of the deal, nor does it much matter since no one else I've spoken to can match it.
Knowing the details of a deal is critical and does matter - it is what we just preached to the guy above struggling to see if he got taken and how he can better his deal.

In the end it is the lease factors that determine everything. Without knowing those facts, it is very hard to determine a good deal from a bad deal. Also, location has a huge effect on taxes - in my calculations here, I assumed NY taxed on the entire vehicle, instead of just the base lease payments up front. Get all the lease factors on a prospective deal and a good lease calculator and have it.
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  #52  
Old 04-17-2011, 09:16 AM
AKAGodSent AKAGodSent is offline
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Originally Posted by Chorse4D View Post
Ordered a M3 convert with a msrp of 80500 and with nothing down the down payment was 3900 and 771 per month for 12000 miles a year 36 months. If anyone is paying in the rights your getting ripped off I think.
It isn't 'nothing down' if you've got a 'down payment'.
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  #53  
Old 04-17-2011, 09:18 AM
AKAGodSent AKAGodSent is offline
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Originally Posted by logicalthought View Post
What bothers me is that I wasn't trying to squeeze the last nickel out of the guy, as I told him right up front that everyone's got to make a living, and I'd pay him $1500 over Edmund's. I guess, though, that feeling wasn't mutual. Also, he showed me their $500 combined dealership MACO fee and "training fee" and pointed out that I was "really" pricing the car at $1000 over invoice and not $1500 because I was refusing to pay them. (I have no interest in paying some car dealer's advertising and training costs, because they're really not my problem.)

Okay, thanks to everyone for your advice here; this is really a terrific forum!
MACO and training aren't your problem but unless you're doing European Delivery, everyone has to pay them. Even so, starting with the '2,500 non-refundable deposit' to hiking up the money factor, this dealer has been far from honest with you.
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  #54  
Old 04-17-2011, 09:19 AM
AKAGodSent AKAGodSent is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksoze View Post
Knowing the details of a deal is critical and does matter - it is what we just preached to the guy above struggling to see if he got taken and how he can better his deal.

In the end it is the lease factors that determine everything. Without knowing those facts, it is very hard to determine a good deal from a bad deal. Also, location has a huge effect on taxes - in my calculations here, I assumed NY taxed on the entire vehicle, instead of just the base lease payments up front. Get all the lease factors on a prospective deal and a good lease calculator and have it.
Knowing the details is critical if you're new to leasing. I've done the calculations before and I still cannot figure out how I'm going to be paying under $800 for what I'm getting. So in this case, I'm happy to stay ignorant.
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  #55  
Old 04-17-2011, 09:45 AM
mujjuman mujjuman is offline
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Excellent thread. Very informative. Thanks guys
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  #56  
Old 04-17-2011, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by thumper_330 View Post
Having driven both (but own neither) I would say that it's a tough call. But... if you exclude the "exclusive" M3 options/features like the premium sound system, MDM and EDC then you end up with the only true differentiating features being the engine, tires and appearance. At that point, the 335is (in my opinion) is 97% of an M3 for 90% of the price.
97% ? Rubbish. In addition what you’ve listed, you're missing key differences between M3 and any other 3er: suspension, steering, brakes, and limited slip differential.

The 335is is mostly marketing ploy – take the aging 335i, slap some go fast looking parts, and jack up the price.
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  #57  
Old 04-17-2011, 05:21 PM
nymetsfan nymetsfan is offline
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Well the 335is does have additional hp and torque, the 7 second extra boost and looks special. That is a little more than "go fast looking parts", no?
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  #58  
Old 04-17-2011, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nymetsfan View Post
Well the 335is does have additional hp and torque, the 7 second extra boost and looks special. That is a little more than "go fast looking parts", no?
It definitelly looks better than a 335i, that's the 'go fast look' part. I had a 2009 E92 335i with the M Sport, and loved the look. The additional power and overboost are eclipsed by several aftermarket tuners for much fewer $$. If a warranty is a concern, Dinan is an option.

Extra ooomph does not make the car handle better, and this is the gap between M3 and other 3er cars. In the end, M3 offers superior steering, suspension, brakes, LSD, throttle response, etc. Not to mention looks.
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  #59  
Old 04-17-2011, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skier View Post
It definitelly looks better than a 335i, that's the 'go fast look' part. I had a 2009 E92 335i with the M Sport, and loved the look. The additional power and overboost are eclipsed by several aftermarket tuners for much fewer $$. If a warranty is a concern, Dinan is an option.

Extra ooomph does not make the car handle better, and this is the gap between M3 and other 3er cars. In the end, M3 offers superior steering, suspension, brakes, LSD, throttle response, etc. Not to mention looks.
This!
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  #60  
Old 04-17-2011, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skier View Post
Extra ooomph does not make the car handle better, and this is the gap between M3 and other 3er cars. In the end, M3 offers superior steering, suspension, brakes, LSD, throttle response, etc. Not to mention looks.
And to add to the list: Phenomenal seats, sublime leather, M Audio, and non-RFT's. All of which make the driving experience very special, indeed. Heck, the M button alone is worth the price of admission!
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  #61  
Old 04-18-2011, 05:04 PM
kimball kimball is offline
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m3 versus 335

It is a no brainer to choose the m3 over the 335. I went through the exact same decision process over a year ago and ended up buying a used '06 m3 convertible, black on black. You will really like a 335. You will love an m3...
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  #62  
Old 04-19-2011, 07:28 PM
KevinJ_2k1325ci KevinJ_2k1325ci is offline
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Problem

BMW doesn't live on the "M" money. They live on the 3 series which affords them to build the M.

The reality from BMW is that they stated that most people want a 328 for the pricing and willing to add loads of options. It actually makes sense to have a M lookalike in that regard. Based on what people want, they could have a M body with a 4 cylinder turbo in it and remove the M badges.

Back to reality, I see no problem with consulting with the M division to put out an M infused model just as there is an AMG Mercedes package or JDM packages for other cars. In fact the 335is should contain more M badging with that logic than it does since it is a step closer than just a 335i with M. Personally I dislike the M badging and preferred for it to remain as a 335is badging which to me would have offered more value.

The M3 is a more sportier model of the 335is with your logic. Adding any M badges makes it a wannabe also. Hence why I would be in favor of removing the M badging if I could and replace them with 335is logos.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mace14 View Post
I think you're missing the point. THe iS is just a sportier model of the 335i and stands very well on that point alone, adding fender flares just makes it an "M" wannabe.

I remember the old Dodge Stealth. Dodge hyped it as a 300hp twin-turbo, 4 wheel drive, 4 wheel steering sports car. The one most people actually bought had just a puny 165hp engine and was front wheel drive at that. The problem was nobody could tell the difference from the looks and few wanted to buy an expensive 300hp model when the identical appearing one parked next to his was bought at half the price. The puny version undervalued what was otherwise a pretty good car for the time. BMW has a vested interest in not devaluing the "M" brand although the M-Sport packages come a bit close to doing just that. BMW needs to keep the M a separate and distinct model.
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  #63  
Old 04-19-2011, 07:38 PM
KevinJ_2k1325ci KevinJ_2k1325ci is offline
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Wrong

The 335is is an enthusiast car and BMW said that from the beginning and likely a direct result of past statements to reduce aftermarket modifications and likely the impact on warranty repairs.

The 335is has "stock" software boost and not after market. It also has an additional oil and radiator cooler. The fan is larger and has stiffer motor mounts. Lookup the Dinan price for just the oil cooler and software. They modified the standard M body kit for the 335is and gave it a unique exhaust again targeted at the aftermarket crowd. For $3k above the price of a 335i with M kit, BMW didn't have room to add more than that. If they added brakes, suspension, steering and limited slip differential to the 335is you might as well add another $5-8k to the price and add $5k to that you might as well get an M3. Would not makes sense for BMW.

I'm not stupid enough to fall for market it if I didn't do the math for what you get over a standard 335i. For those like me that wanted it, the 335is offers the DCT tranny which is not available for the 335i in addition to the aforementioned features.

Only the LCI added headlight and brake lights to the aging 335i AND M3 just as they always do in a life cycle update.


Quote:
Originally Posted by skier View Post
97% ? Rubbish. In addition what you've listed, you're missing key differences between M3 and any other 3er: suspension, steering, brakes, and limited slip differential.

The 335is is mostly marketing ploy – take the aging 335i, slap some go fast looking parts, and jack up the price.

Last edited by KevinJ_2k1325ci; 04-19-2011 at 07:41 PM.
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  #64  
Old 04-19-2011, 07:58 PM
Mace14 Mace14 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinJ_2k1325ci View Post
BMW doesn't live on the "M" money. They live on the 3 series which affords them to build the M.

The reality from BMW is that they stated that most people want a 328 for the pricing and willing to add loads of options. It actually makes sense to have a M lookalike in that regard. Based on what people want, they could have a M body with a 4 cylinder turbo in it and remove the M badges.

Back to reality, I see no problem with consulting with the M division to put out an M infused model just as there is an AMG Mercedes package or JDM packages for other cars. In fact the 335is should contain more M badging with that logic than it does since it is a step closer than just a 335i with M. Personally I dislike the M badging and preferred for it to remain as a 335is badging which to me would have offered more value.

The M3 is a more sportier model of the 335is with your logic. Adding any M badges makes it a wannabe also. Hence why I would be in favor of removing the M badging if I could and replace them with 335is logos.
LOL, you do realize that none of what you typed makes a lick of sense don't you? Where do I say BMW lives on "M" money? Who's talking about M badging? Actually, WTF are you talking about as nothing you're saying has anything to do with what I typed?
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Last edited by Mace14; 04-19-2011 at 08:01 PM.
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  #65  
Old 04-20-2011, 08:01 AM
merlin00069 merlin00069 is offline
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This seems like a topic many people debate on huh?
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  #66  
Old 04-25-2011, 05:38 PM
16n69 16n69 is offline
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Originally Posted by nymetsfan View Post
Looking for some feedback on the m3 versus a 335is. Assuming the car will not be used on the track, what;s the better option? Also, while I am leaning toward a 6MT, is the DCT on the 335is a lesser version than the M3?

THANKS!!
I would say that unless you plan to "track" your car...race on a "closed" system,
the 335is is better, more usable power for around town, and more fun due to low rpm torque.
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  #67  
Old 04-25-2011, 06:03 PM
nymetsfan nymetsfan is offline
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I have now driven my M3 sedan for 2 weeks. I think people who way the 335is ha s"more usable power" are wrong. The M3 is very very fast and has gobs of usable power. Furthermore, the sound of that engine winding up and the car exploding forward is intoxicating. It is a far different and far more special car than the is.
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  #68  
Old 04-25-2011, 08:34 PM
Raz5219 Raz5219 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nymetsfan View Post
I have now driven my M3 sedan for 2 weeks. I think people who way the 335is ha s"more usable power" are wrong. The M3 is very very fast and has gobs of usable power. Furthermore, the sound of that engine winding up and the car exploding forward is intoxicating. It is a far different and far more special car than the is.
Agreed. I've had my car for almost 3 weeks now and it really is a completely different car than the 335is. All the hype about no torque is completely unfounded. The car has great power in any gear and surges forward with the urgency that the 335 doesn't match. The handling is on an even greater plane than the power. It's so planted and confidence inspiring, I find myself doing things I wouldn't dare try with the 335. For people that say the handling is not much different than the 335 i and is, they're not driving fast enough. I fall more in love with it every time I get behind the wheel. The M3 is a better drivers car than the 335i or'IS'. Period.
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Last edited by Raz5219; 04-26-2011 at 06:45 AM.
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  #69  
Old 04-28-2011, 12:28 PM
16n69 16n69 is offline
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by nymetsfan View Post
I have now driven my M3 sedan for 2 weeks. I think people who way the 335is ha s"more usable power" are wrong. The M3 is very very fast and has gobs of usable power. Furthermore, the sound of that engine winding up and the car exploding forward is intoxicating. It is a far different and far more special car than the is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raz5219 View Post
Agreed. I've had my car for almost 3 weeks now and it really is a completely different car than the 335is. All the hype about no torque is completely unfounded. The car has great power in any gear and surges forward with the urgency that the 335 doesn't match. The handling is on an even greater plane than the power. It's so planted and confidence inspiring, I find myself doing things I wouldn't dare try with the 335. For people that say the handling is not much different than the 335 i and is, they're not driving fast enough. I fall more in love with it every time I get behind the wheel. The M3 is a better drivers car than the 335i or'IS'. Period.
OK...ok, I stand corrected( i think...)...
...M3 RULES,

Would you guys BOTH have the SAME opinion (M3 vs. 335is)...
...even for someone who will NEVER "track" the car...
or "LIVE" in the upper "limits" of the tach & car?
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  #70  
Old 04-28-2011, 06:45 PM
16n69 16n69 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 16n69 View Post
OK...ok, I stand corrected( i think...)...
...M3 RULES,

Would you guys BOTH have the SAME opinion (M3 vs. 335is)...
...even for someone who will NEVER "track" the car...
or "LIVE" in the upper "limits" of the tach & car?
How much is real world gas milage between a DCT M3 vs. a DCT 335is, ...
given they are both driven "conservatively" when functioning as a "DAILY DRIVER"...
I KNOW what it "SAYS", on paper...but???
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  #71  
Old 05-19-2011, 12:06 PM
16n69 16n69 is offline
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinJ_2k1325ci View Post
BMW doesn't live on the "M" money. They live on the 3 series which affords them to build the M.

The reality from BMW is that they stated that most people want a 328 for the pricing and willing to add loads of options. It actually makes sense to have a M lookalike in that regard. Based on what people want, they could have a M body with a 4 cylinder turbo in it and remove the M badges.

Back to reality, I see no problem with consulting with the M division to put out an M infused model just as there is an AMG Mercedes package or JDM packages for other cars. In fact the 335is should contain more M badging with that logic than it does since it is a step closer than just a 335i with M. Personally I dislike the M badging and preferred for it to remain as a 335is badging which to me would have offered more value.

The M3 is a more sportier model of the 335is with your logic. Adding any M badges makes it a wannabe also. Hence why I would be in favor of removing the M badging if I could and replace them with 335is logos.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mace14 View Post
LOL, you do realize that none of what you typed makes a lick of sense don't you? Where do I say BMW lives on "M" money? Who's talking about M badging? Actually, WTF are you talking about as nothing you're saying has anything to do with what I typed?
+1...I have NO idea what anything KevinJ_2k1325c was trying to say???
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  #72  
Old 05-19-2011, 02:06 PM
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The M3 is the first car I've had that i actually have been going out and doing joy rides with just for the hell of it! Not to say my E90 335i or my 07' GTI wasn't fun but this M3 is extremely fun to play with! Also tracking an M3 at the BMW performance center I feel extremely comfortable with the M3 and its capabilities.
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  #73  
Old 05-19-2011, 10:15 PM
KevinJ_2k1325ci KevinJ_2k1325ci is offline
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Uh you said the 335is was a marketing ploy.

Your statement applies to the entire M line. Also the M kit.

The 335is is a 335i with the M kit and a upped version of the BMW Performance Kit for a cheaper price than buying them seperately. What's wrong with that?

The 335is is $3k more than a 335i with M kit.. That's not jacking up the price, not sure you know what your talking about.

Quote:
The 335is is mostly marketing ploy – take the aging 335i, slap some go fast looking parts, and jack up the price.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mace14 View Post
LOL, you do realize that none of what you typed makes a lick of sense don't you? Where do I say BMW lives on "M" money? Who's talking about M badging? Actually, WTF are you talking about as nothing you're saying has anything to do with what I typed?
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  #74  
Old 05-20-2011, 01:03 PM
Mace14 Mace14 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinJ_2k1325ci View Post
Uh you said the 335is was a marketing ploy.

Your statement applies to the entire M line. Also the M kit.

The 335is is a 335i with the M kit and a upped version of the BMW Performance Kit for a cheaper price than buying them seperately. What's wrong with that?

The 335is is $3k more than a 335i with M kit.. That's not jacking up the price, not sure you know what your talking about.

Quote:
The 335is is mostly marketing ploy – take the aging 335i, slap some go fast looking parts, and jack up the price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mace14
LOL, you do realize that none of what you typed makes a lick of sense don't you? Where do I say BMW lives on "M" money? Who's talking about M badging? Actually, WTF are you talking about as nothing you're saying has anything to do with what I typed?
You continue to babble on. The quote about the 335iS being nothing but a marketing ploy is by Skier, not me. Also, I never said there was a problem with the 335iS, I said it stood quite well as a sportier version of the 335i. Your additional claim that Skier's comment about "go fast looking parts" applies not only to the iS but also the M is just patently ridiculous. I stand by my quote (my real quote, not Skier's)
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Last edited by Mace14; 05-20-2011 at 01:06 PM.
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  #75  
Old 05-31-2011, 12:24 PM
Sleestak Sleestak is offline
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Having owned a 2005 645Ci, 2008 550i, 2008 335xi, 2009 335i and now a 2008 M3 (yes, I'm almost Psycho) all within the last six years, I suspect my opinion will count for something here. First of all, Mace, you tickle me! Secondly, there's no true noticeable difference between the 335is and the 335i. Go for the M3 and call it a day. So, people ask me what I like about the M3 and I simply tell them, "whatever you think a "BMW" is, the M3 isn't!!" Love it and will keep it, infact I love it so much, I'll probably go home and masterbate on the hood tonight!!

Last edited by Sleestak; 05-31-2011 at 12:41 PM.
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