335is versus M3

Originally Posted by Sleestak

Having owned a 2005 645Ci, 2008 550i, 2008 335xi, 2009 335i and now a 2008 M3 (yes, I'm almost Psycho) all within the last six years, I suspect my opinion will count for something here. First of all, Mace, you tickle me! Secondly, there's no true noticeable difference between the 335is and the 335i. Go for the M3 and call it a day. So, people ask me what I like about the M3 and I simply tell them, "whatever you think a "BMW" is, the M3 isn't!!" Love it and will keep it, infact I love it so much, I'll probably go home and masterbate on the hood tonight!!

LOL Now that's true love.

Originally Posted by Raz5219

LOL Now that's true love.

True love would be sticking it in the tail pipe.

Sent from my DROIDX using Bimmer App

Originally Posted by Sleestak

Having owned a 2005 645Ci, 2008 550i, 2008 335xi, 2009 335i and now a 2008 M3 (yes, I'm almost Psycho) all within the last six years, I suspect my opinion will count for something here. First of all, Mace, you tickle me! Secondly, there's no true noticeable difference between the 335is and the 335i. Go for the M3 and call it a day. So, people ask me what I like about the M3 and I simply tell them, "whatever you think a "BMW" is, the M3 isn't!!" Love it and will keep it, infact I love it so much, I'll probably go home and masterbate on the hood tonight!!

I own a 335is vert and feel this statement is untrue, and, I actually like it better than I did my previous M3 vert. Now, if you want to say the same thing about an M3 sedan (which we also own) and the M3 coupe versus the 335i counterparts, then I will agree with you.

Originally Posted by beden1

I own a 335is vert and feel this statement is untrue, and, I actually like it better than I did my previous M3 vert. Now, if you want to say the same thing about an M3 sedan (which we also own) and the M3 coupe versus the 335i counterparts, then I will agree with you.

...what, the M3 "vert, is STILL a M3...coupe, sedan or not!
Logic E90 M3 & E92 M3 > than ANY 335i(is)...E90 & E92...but,
E93 335is > than E93 M3

ALL M3's "trump" ALL 335's.

Originally Posted by beden1

I own a 335is vert and feel this statement is untrue, and, I actually like it better than I did my previous M3 vert. Now, if you want to say the same thing about an M3 sedan (which we also own) and the M3 coupe versus the 335i counterparts, then I will agree with you.

Say what?

My biased opinion is that the difference between the 335is and the M3 is larger than the difference between the 335is and the 335i. I am sure some will argue to no end to defend their purchase decisions, and I can respect that.

However, just stay consistent across all the body types unless you have any specific evidence to present your case. Does the e93 M3 have a different suspension or engine than the other e9x M3 body types? Does the e93 M3 gain more weight than the 335i/335is? How do you justify your inconsistent argument?

Originally Posted by beden1

I own a 335is vert and feel this statement is untrue

Are you questioning the fact that he masturbates in the hood of his car?

Originally Posted by enigma

Say what?

My biased opinion is that the difference between the 335is and the M3 is larger than the difference between the 335is and the 335i. I am sure some will argue to no end to defend their purchase decisions, and I can respect that.

However, just stay consistent across all the body types unless you have any specific evidence to present your case. Does the e93 M3 have a different suspension or engine than the other e9x M3 body types? Does the e93 M3 gain more weight than the 335i/335is? How do you justify your inconsistent argument?

Not to sound like a M3 fanboy, but I have to agree with this. I believe beden prefers the handling of the 335IS vert as compared to the M3 vert in that it feels lighter on it's feet and more nimble around mountain roads. While I agree that the 335 does have a lighter feel then the M3, I think you'd be hard pressed to take it to the same limits that the M3 vert would be capable of. I think the argument is based more on preference then fact and that's not something worth arguing over. If the statement was that the 335IS vert has a higher limit of traction then it's M3 counterpart, then we may have more to say.

>>I believe beden prefers the handling of the 335IS vert as compared to the M3 vert in that it feels lighter on it's feet and more nimble around mountain roads.<<

Guys, we're only talking about roughly a 100 pound difference between the two, while the 335is is down roughly 90hp. If you want to talk about "lighter on its feet" I could understand a comparison to the 135i convertible. If the 335is convertible weighed 400 fewer pounds than the M3, I would've gotten one in a heartbeat, happily conceding the 90hp.

Originally Posted by logicalthought

>>I believe beden prefers the handling of the 335IS vert as compared to the M3 vert in that it feels lighter on it's feet and more nimble around mountain roads.<<

Guys, we're only talking about roughly a 100 pound difference between the two, while the 335is is down roughly 90hp. If you want to talk about "lighter on its feet" I could understand a comparison to the 135i convertible. If the 335is convertible weighed 400 fewer pounds than the M3, I would've gotten one in a heartbeat, happily conceding the 90hp.

Even though it has been a year since I swapped cars, it's the balance of the two where the difference lies. The M3 felt heavier up front as compared to the 335is. This becomes very apparent when doing tight and hard cornering, where the M3 vert feels like it is plowing/understeer. The 335is does not do this and feels more nimble.

The torque/gearing on the 335is works better going up hills and when recovering speed out of tight turns (with the DCT transmission where it is more pronounced), but, I also notice it to some degree when driving the M3 sedan with manual transmission. The 335is just has more instant power at lower speeds on tha back public roads.

The 335is' exhaust note just flat out sounds better too!

I'm not talking about track duty here, and if I were to get the track bug again, I would prefer my ZO6.

I prefer my 335is vert over the M3 vert. But, I would buy the M3 sedan or coupe over the 335i counterparts without question. Actually, I did buy a 2011 M3 sedan for my son.

If you drive your M3 where it's "plowing" you should be on the track. I let mine run pretty hard on the mountain back roads here now and then and it's turn in is very quick at "reasonable" speeds. If you push it to plowing you are in very dangerous territory on public roads imo. That goes for driving an 335is at a pace where an M3 would plow as well so it doesn't really make sense to me that this would be much of a consideration when choosing a road car between these, especially not a vert.

Originally Posted by beden1

Even though it has been a year since I swapped cars, it's the balance of the two where the difference lies. The M3 felt heavier up front as compared to the 335is. This becomes very apparent when doing tight and hard cornering, where the M3 vert feels like it is plowing/understeer. The 335is does not do this and feels more nimble.

The torque/gearing on the 335is works better going up hills and when recovering speed out of tight turns (with the DCT transmission where it is more pronounced), but, I also notice it to some degree when driving the M3 sedan with manual transmission. The 335is just has more instant power at lower speeds on tha back public roads.

The 335is' exhaust note just flat out sounds better too!

I'm not talking about track duty here, and if I were to get the track bug again, I would prefer my ZO6.

I prefer my 335is vert over the M3 vert. But, I would buy the M3 sedan or coupe over the 335i counterparts without question. Actually, I did buy a 2011 M3 sedan for my son.

335's do NOT have LSD.
The M3 DOEs.
HUGE difference.
End of story.
M3 is a street legal hi-reving race car...
the 335's (ALL) are just Boulevard cruisers.

Originally Posted by solstice

If you drive your M3 where it's "plowing" you should be on the track. I let mine run pretty hard on the mountain back roads here now and then and it's turn in is very quick at "reasonable" speeds. If you push it to plowing you are in very dangerous territory on public roads imo. That goes for driving an 335is at a pace where an M3 would plow as well so it doesn't really make sense to me that this would be much of a consideration when choosing a road car between these, especially not a vert.

Very...TRUE!
Oh these guys...who want to justify the "compromise" that is a 335 (over the M3)...are just quoting lines from the Bimmer Magazine article that came out a few months ago that featured the Red 335is on the cover. Where the "writer" was given a pre-production 335is and was trying to say it was a BETTER car, more capable handling than the M3.
BIG FAIL!!!
NOT.
Never in it's wildest dreams could ANY 335 "tuned" or not ever compete with the mighty "M".

Originally Posted by 16n69

Very...TRUE!
Oh these guys...who want to justify the "compromise" that is a 335 (over the M3)...are just quoting lines from the Bimmer Magazine article that came out a few months ago that featured the Red 335is on the cover. Where the "writer" was given a pre-production 335is and was trying to say it was a BETTER car, more capable handling than the M3.
BIG FAIL!!!
NOT.
Never in it's wildest dreams could ANY 335 "tuned" or not ever compete with the mighty "M".

I didn't read the article, but OK! You talk a lot of smack, but your real world driving experience seems lacking!

Originally Posted by solstice

If you drive your M3 where it's "plowing" you should be on the track. I let mine run pretty hard on the mountain back roads here now and then and it's turn in is very quick at "reasonable" speeds. If you push it to plowing you are in very dangerous territory on public roads imo. That goes for driving an 335is at a pace where an M3 would plow as well so it doesn't really make sense to me that this would be much of a consideration when choosing a road car between these, especially not a vert.

I already have a great handling car with power in my ZO6. Nothing BMW makes for the street comes close to it's performance capabilities. I like to also have a sporty convertible that has decent handling for when I go for my spirited rides on back country roads. These roads for the most part rarely have any traffic whatsoever. Even so, I am very careful and pick my opportunities to step it up when clearly presented.

I've owned a 330i before my current 335i Sedan. Not even close in comparison. Just ordered a 2011 M3 Sedan to replace the 335i. Jury's still out till August when I get it, but the comparison is much closer IMHO. There are differences in the E93 I've test driven. It was enough to make me order one versus keep the 335.

I also own a Boulevard also, so i guess I'm stuck in the middle somewhere.

Originally Posted by 328dude

I've owned a 330i before my current 335i Sedan. Not even close in comparison. Just ordered a 2011 M3 Sedan to replace the 335i. Jury's still out till August when I get it, but the comparison is much closer IMHO. There are differences in the E93 I've test driven. It was enough to make me order one versus keep the 335.

I also own a Boulevard also, so i guess I'm stuck in the middle somewhere.

The M3 sedan is definitely worth it over a 335i sedan or 335is coupe, IMO. The weight savings over an M3 vert can be easily felt in seat of the pants driving. The added weight hurts the M3 vert, and because of this, it's not worth paying the extra money over a 335is.

Enjoy your new ride!

With the money factors how they are in the M3, you can lease one and get the same or better payment. This to me was key to my decision. If there was indeed a savings for the is, I would go for it for the gas economy.

Comments about weight and performance I see here appear to be more an effort to validate and justify one's personal preference and unaccompanied by objective data. Anyone care to share some head to head slalom comparisons? Braking distance?

Originally Posted by beden1

The M3 sedan is definitely worth it over a 335i sedan or 335is coupe, IMO. The weight savings over an M3 vert can be easily felt in seat of the pants driving. The added weight hurts the M3 vert, and because of this, it's not worth paying the extra money over a 335is.

Enjoy your new ride!

This inconsistent argument is tiring.

The weight of the 335is e93 is close to the weight of the M3 e93. The 335is e93 magically avoids the weight gains from its hard top? If you really wanted a convertible (and there is no substitute for the open-top experience), the M3 provides an equal amount of advantage over the 335is convertible counterpart.

Yes, the M3 e93 is a pig, but so is the M3 e92/e90 (in its class). Compared to your 3100lb Z06, even the e92/e90 must feel heavy on its feet.

Originally Posted by neurom

With the money factors how they are in the M3, you can lease one and get the same or better payment. This to me was key to my decision. If there was indeed a savings for the is, I would go for it for the gas economy.

Comments about weight and performance I see here appear to be more an effort to validate and justify one's personal preference and unaccompanied by objective data. Anyone care to share some head to head slalom comparisons? Braking distance?

The residual value of the M3 wipes away any MF advantage though, a similarly equipped M3 would have been about $125-150 more per month for me.

Originally Posted by enigma

This inconsistent argument is tiring.

The weight of the 335is e93 is close to the weight of the M3 e93. The 335is e93 magically avoids the weight gains from its hard top? If you really wanted a convertible (and there is no substitute for the open-top experience), the M3 provides an equal amount of advantage over the 335is convertible counterpart.

Yes, the M3 e93 is a pig, but so is the M3 e92/e90 (in its class). Compared to your 3100lb Z06, even the e92/e90 must feel heavy on its feet.

The M3 vert weighs 4,145 lbs. versus the 335is vert at about 3,825 lbs. That's 320 lbs. or about the weight of a very heavy extra passenger. But, you are right, that both of these cars are heavy as compared to sports cars like the ZO6.

What I'm saying is that the M3 vert loses it's benefit of the extra HP, brakes and shocks due to the heavier weight as compared to it's M3 coupe (3,704 lbs.) and M3 sedan counterparts. And, I just plain flat out have more fun driving the 335is vert than I did the M3 vert. IMO, it's not worth the extra money for the M3 vert versus the 335is vert.

>>The M3 vert weighs 4,145 lbs. versus the 335is vert at about 3,825 lbs. <<

That is totally wrong! The 335is weighs a bit over 4000 pounds:
http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...fications.aspx

Believe me, if there were a 300+ pound weight difference, I'd be posting on the 335is board right now!

Originally Posted by beden1

I didn't read the article, but OK! You talk a lot of smack, but your real world driving experience seems lacking!

That seems to have shut 16n69 up! I was just thinking the same thing when I read his last post and was going to post something similar until I scrolled down and saw your response. He's all talk and obviously doesn't have either car.

16n69, post some pics of your BMW! Or can I find it here: http://www.jimmy540i.com/bmwnightmare.htm?

Having stumbled onto this thread I'd like to give my input and what influenced our buying decision.

My wife and I bought a 335is Coupe. Complete disclosure, it's her car, not mine. I have a 2000 S2000 which I dearly love and will never sell. But I enjoyed the ED experience so much, I'd love to get my own BMW in about three years in addition to the S2000. Who knows what will be available then?

My wife was originally considering the 328i Sedan. She's a CPA and the Controller at a real estate investment firm, so she's practical, but she is somewhat of a car nut (we both read all the car magazines, follow F1, go to races, etc.) so I quickly convinced her that she'd be much happier with the 335i Sedan. Then we saw the 335is Coupe at an auto show. She fell in love with it but her practical side said no. She really wanted a sedan again, having driven a coupe for the last 12 years. When I pointed out that the E92 & E93 underwent an LCI for 2011 and that the coupe actually looked much better than the sedan, she agreed. So now it was a 335i Coupe. Then I looked into European Delivery and how much we'd save and that a European Delivery 335is Coupe would cost us about as much as the 335i Sedan with regular delivery. She's been wanting to go back to Europe again, so she was sold.

The M3 was never under consideration. It cost a lot more than a 335i, there's the gas guzzler tax, the insurance is higher, and the gas cost is a lot higher. There's no way she could justify that.

The 335is is the perfect BMW for us at this time. It doesn't really matter which is the faster car and under which conditions, has more torque, more HP, is the ultimate, it's the car that works the best under 98% of driving conditions we'll encounter.

Sure, we plan on taking it on drives in the twisties, autocrossing it, and taking it to some track events, which BMW actually designed it for. But most of the time, it will be getting her to work, getting us groceries, visiting friends, taking trips, and for that it works much better than an M3. I read lots and lots of reviews of the 335is Coupe before we bought it and I think that most reviewers got it right when the said that it slots in perfectly between a "regular" 335 and an M3, but that for most buyers, the 335is Coupe is a better choice as a daily driver. That's us. I think that BMW had us in mind when they designed the 335is Coupe. We're car enthusiasts, not car fanatics.

Not everyone that buys a 335is Coupe starts by comparing it to the M3. We compared it to a 335i Sedan and then a 335i Coupe and decided that we like the extras enough to buy it. It stands on its own. The M3 is not the ultimate BMW for everyone's purposes. If you like the M3 and it works for your purposes, fine, then buy it. But don't put down people who made a completely rational decision to buy the 335is Coupe because it works for their purposes.

So I'm in agreement with you on this. Having owned the 335i coupe (twice over) I loved it dearly but, more than the power of an M3, I love the way the car looks. Yeah, great! It's a fast car by all means along with everything else that comes with an M3. Completely different car than the 335i or is! But the 335 is a hell of a lot more practical than buying an M3 just because of the way it looks, like I did. If the 335i looked that aggressive, I probably would have gone with that again. Then again, I never owned an M3 and sure certainly appreciate everything that comes along with driving one of these.

I found the weights listed in this article: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...t_drive_review , which lists the 335is vert curb weight at 3,650–3,750 lb. I used a weight figure of 3,825 lbs. that I had read in a couple of other reviews, for the benefit of the doubt. If I got the weights wrong, I apologize on behalf of the magazine.

Whether anyone likes my opinions of the 335is vert versus the M3 vert or not, it is still my experienced opinion, having owned both the M3 vert and now the 335is vert, as well as a new 2011 M3 sedan for my son. Actual driving experience comparing the actual two cars.