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General BMW
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  #1  
Old 02-24-2004, 11:19 AM
BrettInLJ BrettInLJ is offline
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M4 Weight Distribution with V8

Since it looks like BMW will be dropping the V8 into the M4, who here thinks they will retain the close to 50/50 weight distribution? It would be a shame if they decided to compromise on this point and make what would should be a pure sports car have a good amount of understeer. If I wanted that I could supercharge a Honda.

I would rather have a turbo or supercharged I6 in the coupe if it was the only way to keep the weight distribution in the range required to have the "BMW feel".
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  #2  
Old 02-24-2004, 12:45 PM
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The drivers for the V8 M3 GT car said it drives differently due to the heavier front end, if I remember. But that M5 V8 is pretty heavy - the new M4 may get a lighter one. The 3.2L six is not exactly light.
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  #3  
Old 02-24-2004, 01:30 PM
BrettInLJ BrettInLJ is offline
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Aluminum block?

BTW, what are you referring to as far as the V8 M3 GT car. Do you have a link to that article or review?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg90
The drivers for the V8 M3 GT car said it drives differently due to the heavier front end, if I remember. But that M5 V8 is pretty heavy - the new M4 may get a lighter one. The 3.2L six is not exactly light.
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  #4  
Old 02-24-2004, 01:39 PM
marinakorp marinakorp is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK
Name one modern BMW automobile (since the '70s) that does not have at least 52/48 weight distribution.
Why that would be the 540iT .... PERFECT 50/50 distribution
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  #5  
Old 02-24-2004, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrettInLJ
Since it looks like BMW will be dropping the V8 into the M4, who here thinks they will retain the close to 50/50 weight distribution? It would be a shame if they decided to compromise on this point and make what would should be a pure sports car have a good amount of understeer. If I wanted that I could supercharge a Honda.

I would rather have a turbo or supercharged I6 in the coupe if it was the only way to keep the weight distribution in the range required to have the "BMW feel".
Could be tricky, but the V8 will be a fair bit shorter than the I6, so they can mount it at the back of the engine bay, so moving some weight backwards. That, plus bigger batteries for the inevitable accessories, more metalwork at the bangle-end, and lighter front suspension could probably just about balance things out to 50-50
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  #6  
Old 02-24-2004, 02:00 PM
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The current V8s do not weigh much more than their I6 counterparts. Hack might have exact numbers.

And the Z4 for example, easily has 6 inches of room where the engine could be moved aft in the chasis. Almost as if someone was pre-planning on a V8.

I don't think BMW will have any problem getting 50/50 +/- 2%.
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  #7  
Old 02-24-2004, 02:07 PM
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Exactly, the S62 engine from teh M5 is within 10 pounds or so of the S54 eninge in teh current M3. Aluminum block versus cast iron block.

Add to that the fact that it could be mounted further back,a nd you get even more weight off the front end.

And lastly, 50/50 weight ditribution has only a small effect on the handling, the suspension dynamics play a MUCH larger roll. Take F1 cars for instance, nowhere near 50/50 (more like 40/60) and they can be made to handle from understeering, through neutral to oversteering.

50/50 on a street car especiallly is marketing hype.

Oh, take the MZ3 with "cowl shake wieghts" under the rear bumper cover, some 70 pounds of them. But 50/50 weight distribution for the brochure.
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  #8  
Old 02-24-2004, 02:15 PM
andy_thomas andy_thomas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinecone
Exactly, the S62 engine from teh M5 is within 10 pounds or so of the S54 eninge in teh current M3. Aluminum block versus cast iron block.

Add to that the fact that it could be mounted further back,a nd you get even more weight off the front end.

And lastly, 50/50 weight ditribution has only a small effect on the handling, the suspension dynamics play a MUCH larger roll. Take F1 cars for instance, nowhere near 50/50 (more like 40/60) and they can be made to handle from understeering, through neutral to oversteering.

50/50 on a street car especiallly is marketing hype.
Do bear in mind though that street cars cannot rely on substantial downforce to provide downward thrust on the axles, unlike F1 cars. An F1 car can be set to provide -20%/120% weight distribution (for a fleeting moment, just before one or other ends takes to the air).
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  #9  
Old 02-24-2004, 02:26 PM
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I don't know about the weight balance, but heavier front ends definitely dull the turn-in. BMW seems to be doing a great job keeping weight down on the new batch of cars, unlike other automakers. Look at the tiny IS300, weighing 3400 lbs!
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  #10  
Old 02-24-2004, 03:02 PM
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the e90 front end/hood/bonnet appears to be longer than the e46 and the e90 is longer yet seemingly retains the short trunk so perhaps that's how it will maintain the 50/50 balance.
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  #11  
Old 02-24-2004, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg90
. Look at the tiny IS300, weighing 3400 lbs!

so what's the guestimate on the weight of the e90?
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  #12  
Old 02-24-2004, 03:06 PM
Alex Baumann Alex Baumann is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HW
so what's the guestimate on the weight of the e90?

Probably same as E46 or a little lighter.
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  #13  
Old 02-24-2004, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Baumann
Probably same as E46 or a little lighter.
but they said it would be bigger than the e46? more alu parts?
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  #14  
Old 02-24-2004, 03:22 PM
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I think all this hullaballoo about near 50-50 perfect weight distribution is a bunch of hooey.
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  #15  
Old 02-24-2004, 03:34 PM
Alex Baumann Alex Baumann is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HW
but they said it would be bigger than the e46? more alu parts?
They said the same thing about the E60 too, but it came out at least 100 kg lighter.

A lot of lightweight concepts that were implemented on the E60 and E62/E63 will be used on the E90 as well.

To quote the new M-Division Chief 'We'd rather build 1000kg cars, not 1000hp'
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  #16  
Old 02-24-2004, 05:51 PM
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How could anyone who loves BMW's wish for a turbo? The near equal front to rear weight distribution is nice, but it's that beautiful flat toruqe curve that sets these beauties apart. NO TURBO
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  #17  
Old 02-25-2004, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Baumann

To quote the new M-Division Chief 'We'd rather build 1000kg cars, not 1000hp'
Really, he said that? That's awesome!
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  #18  
Old 02-25-2004, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 330Legend
How could anyone who loves BMW's wish for a turbo? The near equal front to rear weight distribution is nice, but it's that beautiful flat toruqe curve that sets these beauties apart. NO TURBO
I'm also not a fan of the rubbery power delivery of turbos, at least small ones.
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  #19  
Old 02-25-2004, 09:37 AM
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50/50 weight distribution is overrated
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  #20  
Old 02-25-2004, 11:29 AM
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I would have said I was in the "confident that BMW will be able to keep the weight distribution close" camp a month ago. Now that I have driven the MINI for a couple thousand miles with it's so NOT balanced weight distribution, I am in the "weight balance is over rated" camp.

I don't know what they do to make cars handle the way they do, but I don't think it's dependant on the weight distribution.
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  #21  
Old 02-26-2004, 11:04 AM
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Hmmm...

I like my BMW with a nice NA engine, it's just more pure.
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