Anyone Driven Both Non-DHP and DHP?

Has anyone driven both the dynamic handling packaged x3 and non DHP x3 back to back? How much better is it for everyday city driving?
I plan to keep it always in "normal"

Originally Posted by silverforum

Has anyone driven both the dynamic handling packaged x3 and non DHP x3 back to back? How much better is it for everyday city driving?

Yes I have...I took a 30 minute test drive on each back to back. My honest thoughts:
It's cool....it really is...however I didn't order, don't think it's at all necessary, and to be frank, I think it over complicates things a bit. I mean don't get my wrong....my initial statement stands....its VERY cool and it absolutely works and it DEFINITELY changes the feel of the car. I was switching it back and forth mid-stream and you can instantly feel it take affect. The biggest thing I noticed was the throttle response...the X3 gets more "revvy"...if that makes sense...it wants to hold higher RPMs longer (thus eating gas) and it is just prepped to jump on things more. The chassis setup changes too but I didn't like it...the car does feel tighter, but I immediately felt like I was in a 3 series coupe (I guess that's the point) as the ride was harsher and more sports car like. (again that's the point I know)

The biggest reasons I didn't get it: 1) cost..it is expensive and I already had almost every other option...other options more important to me 2) I felt like instead of just driving the thing which is what I'll do without DHP, I started to think that if I had DHP I'd constantly be wondering/searching for which setup I wanted for how I was driving at that moment, where I was driving etc...all that. So instaed of just DRIVING and letting the car do it's thing (which is what BMWs are great at) I'd be behind the wheel constantly thinking about how I could make the X3 better based on what I wanetd to do. (again I guess that's the point of DHP, but not what I wanted...I just want to drive and enjoy)

All of that being said though....if money was no object and I was not at all concerned about what I was putting in the X3 I would have ordered it. (I know that contradicts what I said above, but just the truth). For what I need and watned to spend, DHP didn't fit. If i was just writing a check and being done, I'd probably order DHP but rarely use it only for a toy.

Hmm did it have a noticeable difference between Normal and No DHP?

Originally Posted by silverforum

Hmm did it have a noticeable difference between Normal and No DHP?

LOL... I knew you were going to ask me that!!!!

Well...that was a bit harder to tell, but the fact that it was harder to tell shows me that there really wasn't a difference. From everything I can see/tell/feel, normal mode in DHP and normal mode non DHP felt just about identical. I can't be 100% sure but if you really want to know I'd google DHP X3 review on the web and see what experts think. I've seen some reviews where the experts do say they noticed some difference...hard for us though as average drivers.

I would say this though as the more important thing to consider.... not only did I drive a 35i with/without DHP back to back, but I then drove a 28i and there was a HUGE difference between the feel....and I'm not just talking the engine. When you get the 28 even with the sport package, you don't get the same tranny setup as on the 35 with sport package...sport package on 35 gives you the paddle shifters and manual mode on the tranny...manual mode meaning you actually have to shift like a stick shift..only no clutch. There was a significant difference between how each felt...just based on that I'd go with the 35, but having that turbo is what really makes it great.

Look..make it easy on yourself...if this is not a financial decision and you are NOT skimping on something else as a result of DHP, get it. If you leave it in normal mode 9 drives out of 10, it's there if you need it. For me, I didn't want to spend the 1400..it was that simple. As long as you are getting the 35 DHP is worth it...I don't feel DHP is worth it on the 28 though...the 28 doesn't have enough gusto as compared to the 35 so you won't realize the changes as much. The 35 is just so much fun to drive anyway that you don't need the DHP if money is an issue.

Again..just my opinion on all of this

I have driven both extensively - the only diff for city stuff is the DHP will handle potholes better - when a DHP car hits a pothole with the front wheel - by the time the rear wheel gets to the pothole the suspension has changed to "handle" the hole. Yes it is that nano-second quick...

I had a short drive in each. In my opinion for normal daily use I don't think DHP is worth it. Maybe for a twisty road but then only if driving hard and I can't see myself carving corners in an SUV. Thats what my Z4M is for! Save your money.

So I just got my 28 w/ no DHP -- anyway... does anyone think that having it in d/s mode tightens up the steering somewhat? or is it just my imagination....

This may be a silly question but what are the type of things that can mess up DHP? Are you just asking for a huge repair bill getting it b/c if something goes wrong (is it common that it does?) you are in for a huge headache?

Originally Posted by mole7374

LOL... I knew you were going to ask me that!!!!

Well...that was a bit harder to tell, but the fact that it was harder to tell shows me that there really wasn't a difference. From everything I can see/tell/feel, normal mode in DHP and normal mode non DHP felt just about identical. I can't be 100% sure but if you really want to know I'd google DHP X3 review on the web and see what experts think. I've seen some reviews where the experts do say they noticed some difference...hard for us though as average drivers.

I would say this though as the more important thing to consider.... not only did I drive a 35i with/without DHP back to back, but I then drove a 28i and there was a HUGE difference between the feel....and I'm not just talking the engine. When you get the 28 even with the sport package, you don't get the same tranny setup as on the 35 with sport package...sport package on 35 gives you the paddle shifters and manual mode on the tranny...manual mode meaning you actually have to shift like a stick shift..only no clutch. There was a significant difference between how each felt...just based on that I'd go with the 35, but having that turbo is what really makes it great.

Look..make it easy on yourself...if this is not a financial decision and you are NOT skimping on something else as a result of DHP, get it. If you leave it in normal mode 9 drives out of 10, it's there if you need it. For me, I didn't want to spend the 1400..it was that simple. As long as you are getting the 35 DHP is worth it...I don't feel DHP is worth it on the 28 though...the 28 doesn't have enough gusto as compared to the 35 so you won't realize the changes as much. The 35 is just so much fun to drive anyway that you don't need the DHP if money is an issue.

Again..just my opinion on all of this

As in all BMWs, You can manually shift the X328 just like X335, just without the paddle shifters. Also, it's Sport Activity Package, not Sport Package.

Well, I'm no expert, but I think it's hard to ignore Pulitzer Prize winner Dan Neil's thoughts (available at WSJ auto section):

"The car seemed a lot happier with the gear-selector in Manual mode-allowing the use of the steering-wheel paddles-and the suspension's Electronic Damping Control set on Sport+. The ride-and-handling gets pretty leathery in this configuration; it also engages Performance Control mode. You get this ominous message on the information panel of "driving stability limited," but it turns out you want that. The torque-vectoring program will stutter the inside rear brake and automatically squeeze the e-throttle, helping to rotate the car and nulling out the AWD-inherent understeer, and if you're really gassing it on country lanes, the thing slides around like a proper sport sedan, except as driven from a bar stool. The steering is right there, precise and well-weighted. The pitch and roll of the body is very nicely controlled. "

Yes if one mainly drives gingerly like most average drivers, ignore this option. but if you are more enthusiastic about driving and enjoy curvy roads, why be stingy on a relatively inexpensive option that really makes the car an Ultimate Driving CUV?

Originally Posted by Occhi

This may be a silly question but what are the type of things that can mess up DHP? Are you just asking for a huge repair bill getting it b/c if something goes wrong (is it common that it does?) you are in for a huge headache?

Mostly electronics, and the shocks are obviously different.

Performance control:
http://www.bmw.com/com/en/newvehicle...trol.html#more
"BMW Performance Control takes this individual control a step further by changing engine output and if necessary applying braking force: the outer wheels get greater drive power, the inner less, and all four can engage with maximum traction."
To me, this sounds like Porsche's PTV on the Cayenne, which is a $1,500 option.

Damping control:
http://www.bmw.com/com/en/newvehicle...trol.html#more

Car and Driver: "The X3 can be outfitted with BMW's dynamic damper control suspension-electronically controlled shocks that adjust to surface conditions-which offers three driver-adjustable operating modes: normal, sport, and sport plus..."

Cayenne's active suspension control: $2K option.

Improved steering. Car and Driver: "the electrohydraulic variable-assist power steering is as accurate and tactile as anything else in BMW's entire lineup..."
If you notice anything from recent BMWs, it's the electric steering that has received significant criticism in the new 5 and 6 series.

I think DHP is a pretty good value proposition for the performance of X3. I'm surprised it's not more expensive (look at 5's DHP and X5's adaptive drive). Also, it's not something that you can add later. My guess is that most people buying X3 don't care about the handling aspect and will not order it.

@ TMQ -
I can't tell if you are trashing/ragging on me (or why you would) or just posting some clarity around DHP...either way that is a great post.

And for the record...I wasn't saying that I could not tell a difference between DHP and non-DHP...I was saying I couldn't tell between normal in both modes..however there is a HUGE difference between normal and the sport modes. The difference is very pronounced actually, so much so that the first couple of times I switched it on it was somewhat shocking b/c I wasn't prepared for the throttle differences and chassis feel. (so just for the record that's my DHP experience)

I think (my opinion here) that all in all, DHP is a really great feature but on the X3 it's more of a luxury and toy than anything else, unless you plan on driving the vehicle hard a good bit of the time. Someone else posted this, but for "normal and everyday driving", DHP won't add much really...it's when you start driving harder, more spirited, and trying to throw it around is when you start to see the the car differently. I think for 1400 is'a great value no doubt...for that kind of technology it REALLY is worth 1400...however for me, I was already up to 48K (well my setup was 52 but buy price 48) and really didn't want to push it any more...I needed to stop and for this feature, what it came down to for me was value...for the majority of the kind of driving I do, DHP would be in normal mode anyway. Sure I'd find the times to shift it into different modes, but most of the time it wouldn't be that...would I really be dropping the car into serious turns with my 2 kids in the car?...I think not...nor with my wife in the car if we're out alone (unless I want to hear her screaming in fear). So the times i'm alone and in places to do so, were limited and the value prop wasn't there....I wanted the rest of the stuff I got and didn't want to jump another 1400. If money was not a factor I'd definitely drop it in my X3.

Another point...if you get DHP but drop on 18's with all seasons, what's the point...you need 19's with performance tires or even 20's to get the true experience of what that system can drive...and again for me, no way I can run performance tires all year (live in northeast).....the 35 is a lot of fun with or without DHP.

Now getting an M3 or M5 requires that...no doubt

Well someone has finally answered my questions about DHP. I think the non DHP is sloppy and top heavy in comparsion to my current X3.

I didn't buy a BMW to tool around. I bought an X3 because I wanted a good driving experience with the utility of an SUV.

Seems to me that this takes it to the next level of which I have been looking for. Honestly cant see owning a BMW if you are just going to ride around town and not "drive" it. Be cheaper to just get a Hyundai.

Originally Posted by Evlengr

I didn't buy a BMW to tool around.

But many, many people do....everyone has a different set of requirements....lotsa wives that want more than a Lexus drive but don't need DHP. My wife is one. I don't expect many on Bimmerfest to appreciate it, but many people buy BMW's because they fit their style of driving and the status that goes along with that. Nothing wrong with that, BMW would not be able to survive off of just car freaks. We need the masses to like it too.. and they do - to the tune of a few hundred thou a year in the US.

Originally Posted by Evlengr

I didn't buy a BMW to tool around. I bought an X3 because I wanted a good driving experience with the utility of an SUV.

Honestly cant see owning a BMW if you are just going to ride around town and not "drive" it. Be cheaper to just get a Hyundai.

Although from a certain perspective I think your comments are spot on, from others they are off. And although I respect what you are saying, for most of the people who have jumped into the bimmer market in the last 10-15 years, owning a bimmer is now about "joy" for a lot and lot of people....and not about it being the ultimate driving machine. Heck I could agrue that my Caddi CTS-V coupe the owner of my company drives is more of a driver's machine than anything BMW...I don't believe that, but could agrue it...and he tools around plenty. There's a reason why BMW's own corporate marketing dept markets it as such BTW... The crappy part is that we do have to tool around whether we like it or not...and we do get to drive as we want...and we like that... so we want the X3 to do both...and it can do both...with or without DHP. So in the absence of DHP the X3 is still more of a driver's vehicle than almost anything else out there like it. It's just a shame that sometimes we go way off on forums like this and take something as subjective as DHP and turn it into a religious conversation.

Originally Posted by Evlengr

Well someone has finally answered my questions about DHP. I think the non DHP is sloppy and top heavy in comparsion to my current X3.

I didn't buy a BMW to tool around. I bought an X3 because I wanted a good driving experience with the utility of an SUV.

Seems to me that this takes it to the next level of which I have been looking for. Honestly cant see owning a BMW if you are just going to ride around town and not "drive" it. Be cheaper to just get a Hyundai.

I drove them both and agree that DHP gives it that extra BMW feel BUT... I also felt that there was absolutely nothing wrong with the non DHP. In another post, I mentioned that I love the drive of my current 08 but decided against DHP for a few reasons.

1) While it was a more BMW feel, I can certainly live without it. Would be mostly in normal mode anyways. Which leads me to the next few reasons.

2) As a daily driver I will drive it about 5 months in winter weather where it really wouldn't make a lick of difference. (Can't wait to move south someday)

3) Fortunately for me (I realize others do not have this) I have a summer sports car and bike that I can throw around twisties and the track when I want.

4) As a leased vehicle I felt my money would be spent better on some other options I felt I would get more use out of. Especially the tech package with Mobile Office.

So as stated above, there are many reasons that people do not opt for certain packages or buy a Hyundai...

I would love to know what percentage of people that bought the DHP package leave it in Normal mode the majority of the time.

-CR

mole7374 - I was just trying to provide the best info that I know, state my thoughts and correct a couple of spots in your prior posts relating to facts.

BMW serves mostly people who probably aren't driving enthusiasts, but it's those who appreciate its dynamics help make the brand establish the image it has today (aka BMWCCA). I think it's worthwhile to let those who may not otherwise know appreciate the technological advances and options available today. A vague "the ultimate driving machine" (or "Joy") slogan doesn't tell the fully story. Meanwhile, I'm still vocal about the stupid decision to leave out a spare tire.

Driving style wise, driving legally doesn't mean it can't be fun. If you have the tools to take a fast corner and on ramp safely and can enjoy it, why not do so? DHP provides improvement in steering, suspension, and cornering, things useful in every day normal driving situation. You don't have to go to the track to enjoy a sporty CUV, or a sports car for that matter. that's why in my book, DHP ranks higher than going with turbo.

Just my 2 cents.

mole7374 - I was just trying to provide the best info that I know, state my thoughts and correct a couple of spots in your prior posts relating to facts.

BMW serves mostly people who probably aren't driving enthusiasts, but it's those who appreciate its dynamics help make the brand establish the image it has today (aka BMWCCA). I think it's worthwhile to let those who may not otherwise know appreciate the technological advances and options available today. A vague "the ultimate driving machine" (or "Joy") slogan doesn't tell the fully story. Meanwhile, I'm still vocal about the stupid decision to leave out a spare tire.

Driving style wise, driving legally doesn't mean it can't be fun. If you have the tools to take a fast corner and on ramp safely and can enjoy it, why not do so? DHP provides improvement in steering, suspension, and cornering, things useful in every day normal driving situation. You don't have to go to the track to enjoy a sporty CUV, or a sports car for that matter. that's why in my book, DHP ranks higher than going with turbo.

Just my 2 cents.

Everyone has very valid points on this. I would fall into the category of someone who is not a driving enthusiast aka someone who tools around/ tooler but is still is considering the DHP. So I get it the whole wonders of DHP thing but what I haven't seen much discussed are any of the drawbacks in getting the DHP. What is the likelihood of something going wrong and me regretting ever getting it.

Originally Posted by Occhi

Everyone has very valid points on this. I would fall into the category of someone who is not a driving enthusiast aka someone who tools around/ tooler but is still is considering the DHP. So I get it the whole wonders of DHP thing but what I haven't seen much discussed are any of the drawbacks in getting the DHP. What is the likelihood of something going wrong and me regretting ever getting it.

The more you add with anything the greater the probability of something going wrong. So there is that chance.

Originally Posted by TMQ

mole7374 -
Driving style wise, driving legally doesn't mean it can't be fun. If you have the tools to take a fast corner and on ramp safely and can enjoy it, why not do so? DHP provides improvement in steering, suspension, and cornering, things useful in every day normal driving situation. You don't have to go to the track to enjoy a sporty CUV, or a sports car for that matter. that's why in my book, DHP ranks higher than going with turbo.

Just my 2 cents.

To further define the "tool around" comment. If you are not going to drive a BMW like a BMW, and need the status then buy a Lexus, Infiniti, Audi, etc....

They certainly have the same status and offer more in creature comforts and ergonomic interface then BMW.

If I didn't want the handling of a BMW then I would just buy the Audi Q5 S line. And that is what I think the current BMW without DHP drives like.

So why not spend the same money and get more for "tooling around" if you aren't going to drive it?

Not an insult, just pragmatism.

Fortunately for me my wife is a lead foot like me and when we want really zippy curves we put her MCS in sport mode and really nail the back roads.

It seems to me that the DHP will do the same thing her sport mode does, which would be well worth the money.

Unfortunately, I have yet to drive one as the three dealers I frequent don't have one.

that's fair
so it looks like the only downside might be heavier steering with "sports servotronic" instead of "normal servotronic" (not a fan of heavy steering in slow rush hour traffic where this car will be stuck 80% of the time!)

yeah I'm very curious about that

Well....this is quite the spirited thread...and honestly, even though parts of it are somewhat degrading from certain people, it's threads like this that make forums great...b/c it shows our passion for these vehicles and how no matter what anyone thinks, it's how we look at our cars in our garage that matters.

Now for a few of my closing 2 cents... and this isn't targeted at anyone although certain reference points will make it seem so...for the record I respect everyone's views b/c again that's what makes it great..however it doesn't seem like some folks respect the views of others who don't see "the BMW way" (whatever that means)

So let's define... "driving a BMW like a BMW".. and "need the status". First off, as for me personally, I never said I wanted a status symbol...I want a Bimmer...I love the vehicles...always have...always will. This will be my 3rd. The X3 is for me to love not others to love. I don't want a crappy lexus or infinity...actually they are nice, but I want a Bimmer. And "drive it like a BMW". What does that mean.....does it mean that without DHP I can't enjoy the driving...or that somehow I'm less of a BMW owner than those who bought DHP (and keep it in normal mode?) There's a lot more to owning a Bimmer than just the handling...it's the pride in ownership factor that I look forward to...and that's an all encompassing feeling. What I really don't like is how some people almost go as far as saying that for the "idiots" like me who bought an X3 without DHP, that we somehow have a lesser vehicle or I should drive on different roads than you. (even if that's true I'll gladly keep up with the STI)

I'd argue that if I want to "drive like a pro in a closed course TV commercial", I'll bust out the STI which is pretty much a full second faster than the X3 0-60, has (arguably) a better AWD system than any BMW, has better handling and driving dynamics than any BImmer than except the M vehicles...and even that's debatable. I don't mean to flame here b/c I'm not...just making a point. (and unless you've owned an STI please don't flame back..not looking for that). The point is that everyone has purchase criteria on each car they get...and to say that one 1400 package either defines or breaks the vehicle is to me very narrow.

It just bothers me b/c since I ordered my X3 on 4/2 I've been out of my mind with excitement....and I just got the call from my dealer today that my X3 landed at the dealership and I can pick it up...and then log on here and see the posts about me and my car being in a lesser league than others and their vehicles... I mean I honestly don't care that much personally, but I get hung up on "right vs wrong" and militant views about how to own/drive etc vehicles is just wrong. There are plenty of soccer moms are who are happier with their Bimmers than true enthusiasts and they have never taken a corner more than 35MPH... ok that's a bit extreme but you get my point....just like love, "joy" is in the eye of the beholder.

And BTW...not for nothing, but if you read enough "professional" reviews of the X3, the opinions of those people on DHP vs non-DHP is pretty much split...some folks say it's a great addition and others say to save your money and some say it should not be there at all...and that's not blogs or forums, but professional reviews. Again I'm not saying it's bad (I actually think it's cool but didn't want it) I'm just saying that if the feature was such a slam dunk like having heated seats living in Minnesota, then every professional review woudl be like "gotta have it".

Sorry on this...don't mean to flame or b*tch so much, but this thread kinda irked me for some reason...I don't like the militant views that kinda make others seems like they don't know what theya re doing. (and BTW anyone who wants to experience the joy and downright amazing driving experience of an STI let me know)

Thanks. can you please post a link to those reviews? I'd love to read up on it!

Originally Posted by mole7374

Well....this is quite the spirited thread...and honestly, even though parts of it are somewhat degrading from certain people, it's threads like this that make forums great...b/c it shows our passion for these vehicles and how no matter what anyone thinks, it's how we look at our cars in our garage that matters.

Now for a few of my closing 2 cents... and this isn't targeted at anyone although certain reference points will make it seem so...for the record I respect everyone's views b/c again that's what makes it great..however it doesn't seem like some folks respect the views of others who don't see "the BMW way" (whatever that means)

So let's define... "driving a BMW like a BMW".. and "need the status". First off, as for me personally, I never said I wanted a status symbol...I want a Bimmer...I love the vehicles...always have...always will. This will be my 3rd. The X3 is for me to love not others to love. I don't want a crappy lexus or infinity...actually they are nice, but I want a Bimmer. And "drive it like a BMW". What does that mean.....does it mean that without DHP I can't enjoy the driving...or that somehow I'm less of a BMW owner than those who bought DHP (and keep it in normal mode?) There's a lot more to owning a Bimmer than just the handling...it's the pride in ownership factor that I look forward to...and that's an all encompassing feeling. What I really don't like is how some people almost go as far as saying that for the "idiots" like me who bought an X3 without DHP, that we somehow have a lesser vehicle or I should drive on different roads than you. (even if that's true I'll gladly keep up with the STI)

I'd argue that if I want to "drive like a pro in a closed course TV commercial", I'll bust out the STI which is pretty much a full second faster than the X3 0-60, has (arguably) a better AWD system than any BMW, has better handling and driving dynamics than any BImmer than except the M vehicles...and even that's debatable. I don't mean to flame here b/c I'm not...just making a point. (and unless you've owned an STI please don't flame back..not looking for that). The point is that everyone has purchase criteria on each car they get...and to say that one 1400 package either defines or breaks the vehicle is to me very narrow.

It just bothers me b/c since I ordered my X3 on 4/2 I've been out of my mind with excitement....and I just got the call from my dealer today that my X3 landed at the dealership and I can pick it up...and then log on here and see the posts about me and my car being in a lesser league than others and their vehicles... I mean I honestly don't care that much personally, but I get hung up on "right vs wrong" and militant views about how to own/drive etc vehicles is just wrong. There are plenty of soccer moms are who are happier with their Bimmers than true enthusiasts and they have never taken a corner more than 35MPH... ok that's a bit extreme but you get my point....just like love, "joy" is in the eye of the beholder.

And BTW...not for nothing, but if you read enough "professional" reviews of the X3, the opinions of those people on DHP vs non-DHP is pretty much split...some folks say it's a great addition and others say to save your money and some say it should not be there at all...and that's not blogs or forums, but professional reviews. Again I'm not saying it's bad (I actually think it's cool but didn't want it) I'm just saying that if the feature was such a slam dunk like having heated seats living in Minnesota, then every professional review woudl be like "gotta have it".

Sorry on this...don't mean to flame or b*tch so much, but this thread kinda irked me for some reason...I don't like the militant views that kinda make others seems like they don't know what theya re doing. (and BTW anyone who wants to experience the joy and downright amazing driving experience of an STI let me know)

very nicely said....some are just.... well.....it's bimmerfest.....all the motor sites are like this....enthusiastic...sometimes a bit much...

I test drove the Q5 and the Lexus and they both felt like mushy marshmellows on the road. I don't think there is ANY comparison to them and the new X3. The X3 is faster, handles better and is truly a "Joy" to drive. The others, not so much.

It seems some have a chip on their shoulder or may doubt their pruchase. Who knows. For me I have driven the X3 on three seperate occasions, on different terrain, and different weather. After I got over the thrill of the smooth acceleration and the new design I realized that when I got in my 08 X3 even though slower in comparison the handling of the newer one seemed sluggish.

Many stated that the DHP makes a difference. I enjoy driving my X3 everyday and drive with determination and spirit. I just can't see buying a BMW if you are not going to experience a little g -force here and there. If you don't then an Audi Q5 (IMO) will give you more bang for your buck as it seems to be more of a crusing (aka tool around) type of vehicle and still says your take pride in achieving a certain place in life. I think the Q5 and the new X3 are almost identical in driving except for speed and acceleration.

Not picking on anyone and sorry if I gave that impression. I guess if I was to pick on anyone it would be BMW for making you pay extra for getting what I get for free in my current X3. I still don't know as I have been unable to find one to test with DHP. And certainly won't pay for it without the experience.