Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > E39 (1997 - 2003)

E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-30-2011, 12:07 PM
kpg0628 kpg0628 is offline
Registered User
Location: New Jersey
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 15
Mein Auto: 540i
How to remove a broken water pump stud

While installing a new water pump on my 97 540i, the long 4" bolt broke. This left a 1/2 stud deep in the engine block. Anyone suggestions on how this can be removed? Will an ez-out fit that deep in the block? I was also wondering if I can just install a plug and use a smaller stud? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

kpg
Reply With Quote
Advertisement
  #2  
Old 04-30-2011, 05:34 PM
repcapale repcapale is offline
Registered User
Location: edmonton, canada
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 85
Mein Auto: '01 530 Sport
So there is about 3.5" of empty space now before the broken part is what you are saying. That bolt must be 4" long for a reason otherwise i would just get a 3" bolt and drive it home.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-30-2011, 06:43 PM
GSXRYDER GSXRYDER is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Sylvainia
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,250
Mein Auto: Z4M Coupe, 540i,Silverado
I

Would REMOVE IT. Our cooling systems are unreliable enough, don't give it another 'weak point.


If you have access to it ez out it. the water pump is off I am presuming and you could touch the broken bolt...BTW, how did it break? Cross thread or?

Kind of matters as to which technique to remove. If the threads are undamaged, then you may be able to chisel a slot in the end and screw it out like a screw, if it is crossthreaded you may have to get a sharp drillbit, either cobalt, or titanium and drill out the center before using the easy out...

GL

This is NOT a honda or toyota, don't jury rig anything...
__________________
99 540i-6 Sport & 07 Z4///M Coupe
Pure
Adrenalin!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-30-2011, 08:06 PM
kpg0628 kpg0628 is offline
Registered User
Location: New Jersey
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 15
Mein Auto: 540i
The bolt snapped while securing. It's a very small opening (looks like an m8 size). I'm not able to find a small drill bit or ez out that's long enough to reach 4 inches deep. I don't like the idea of rigging it but I can't seem to find an better solution. Will it cause any problem to tap the hole or plug with an insert and then use a shorter bolt to secure?

Sent from my DROIDX using Bimmer App
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-01-2011, 08:38 AM
repcapale repcapale is offline
Registered User
Location: edmonton, canada
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 85
Mein Auto: '01 530 Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by GSXRYDER View Post
Would REMOVE IT. Our cooling systems are unreliable enough, don't give it another 'weak point.


If you have access to it ez out it. the water pump is off I am presuming and you could touch the broken bolt...BTW, how did it break? Cross thread or?

Kind of matters as to which technique to remove. If the threads are undamaged, then you may be able to chisel a slot in the end and screw it out like a screw, if it is crossthreaded you may have to get a sharp drillbit, either cobalt, or titanium and drill out the center before using the easy out...

GL

This is NOT a honda or toyota, don't jury rig anything...
Jury rig? We use a different word up here.....
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-01-2011, 10:48 AM
bobdmac bobdmac is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Back in Oaktown, Yay Area
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,550
Mein Auto: 2001 540i/6, '90 BMW k75s
Quote:
Originally Posted by repcapale View Post
Jury rig? We use a different word up here.....
"Jury rigged" is a long-established term from sailing, meaning rigging that's improvised or makeshift.
__________________
BMW--giving new meaning to the phrase "disposable income."
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-01-2011, 10:54 AM
repcapale repcapale is offline
Registered User
Location: edmonton, canada
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 85
Mein Auto: '01 530 Sport
Yes thank you for that Bob, but I was just joking.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-01-2011, 04:02 PM
bluebee's Avatar
bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 21,283
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 auto 130K
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobdmac View Post
"Jury rigged" is a long-established term from sailing.
I always wondered about the genesis of that expression! I thought, off hand, it had something to do with bribing a jury - but that wouldn't make sense. I didn't realize the "rigging" was the operative word, not the "jury".

As for the OP's problem. Yikes. Ugly. You make even bigger mistakes than I do! (ooops. That doesn't sound the way I meant it to).

I, for one, would also vote to remove it, as best you can (same sentiment as was already said, our cooling systems are jury-rigged enough by the Bavarian engineers, not to add yet another weak link).

Do you think you can get a screw extractor in there?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-02-2011, 07:13 AM
kpg0628 kpg0628 is offline
Registered User
Location: New Jersey
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 15
Mein Auto: 540i
Don't think I could get a screw extractor in there. It's a 4 inch deep opening. The thread is on the last 3/4" inch of the bolt. The bolt snapped off near the thread.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-02-2011, 08:26 AM
timarnold timarnold is offline
TA
Location: Maryland
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 536
Mein Auto: 2003 bmw 525i
Do you feel lucky?

You really don't have many options with a stud broken that deep. The most important consideration at this point is to not make a bad situation worse. The only thing you may have going for you is that there should be very little prevailing torque on the broken end if you overtightened the bolt. With that in mind, here are 2 suggestions:
You could try taking a clean piece of steel rod & try to epoxy it to the broken end. The probability of it working isn't that great, but you won't mess anything up by trying it.
If you can find a long drill bit of the correct size for the ez out, you could braze the ez out onto the end of a long piece of steel rod & then use to extract the bolt.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 05-02-2011, 09:22 AM
Burning2nd Burning2nd is offline
Under the lift arms
Location: Under the lift arms
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,297
Mein Auto: E39 540, E36 328is, E83x3
Left handed drill , start with a 1/16 or 1/8 I don't know what it looks like but I sure I could get it out,

You might want to find someone who's a little more confident withthis or you might be having bad day ahead

Left handed drill is key word for u

send from space command
__________________
Specializing In BMW, Audi, Mercedes Benz ,Volkswagen, Volvo
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-20-2011, 12:19 AM
bluebee's Avatar
bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 21,283
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 auto 130K
Today, in reading a thread from someone with a similar broken stud:
- E39 (1997 - 2003) > Water pump issue

I searched and found this thread. So that others can benefit, what did the OP end up doing as a solution?
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-27-2011, 02:00 PM
540iman's Avatar
540iman 540iman is offline
resident, old fart
Location: N.W. Indiana
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,504
Mein Auto: 2002 540i sport
Look, I did the exact same thing and the hardest part was finding a new bolt that diameter and thread pitch. It is another BMW F-up. I had to order a few through Fastenal. If you want to PM me with your address, I might be able to find one and send it to you. If you buy from Fastenal, it will be a stainless bolt instead of the cheap ass aluminum bolt you have-maybe it's steel, but it's like pot metal. If your old bolt is broken-off farther down below the block surface than the bolt diameter, then you will get full strength leaving the old piece in there. Do NOT try to drill out, or use an easy out. You will bugger up the remaining threads. I believe it is a M8 x 1.25 x 4". Use a tooth pick and measure carefully how far below the block the remaining piece is down. That bolt may even be an M6 which means it's only about a 1/4" diameter. The "old school" rule of thumb is that for full bolt strength, a 1/2" diameter bolt must go in 1/2". A 1/4" diameter bolt only meeds to go into 1/4" of threads, but this is a bare minimum. This bolt is too small anyway so don't even consider going smaller.

I will almost guarantee you that if you had any way to reach that broken stud without damaging the existing threads, it would twist out by hand. Problem is no way to get to it. You could try a tiny dab of super glue or even a metal cement as if you dab it only on the remaining stud it wont spread out and clog threads, but stud may back out with that little bit of grip. Measure accurately how far down broken piece is and let me know. Take a new 4" bolt and thread two or three nuts onto it and then cut off or grind off carefully the same amount from a full-size bolt. Use a file and chamfer the end of the bolt slightly so starter threads are good. Then back off the three nuts you put on the bolt and they will clean up the bolt sufficiently. If you are broken 1/4" or more down, a sorter bolt will be ok. Use thread locker(blue).

P.S. *if* you decide to try and reverse drill it out, use the smallest drill you can....say a 3-4 mm reverse drill and insert a piece of stainless steel shim stock rolled into a tube small enough to fit inside the hole to protect the threads. Let's say you buy a piece of .005" stainless steel shim stock. Cut it about an inch wide and roll it around your drill bit and stick the whole mess in the hole. The stainless will resist the drill flutes tearing up the hole and if the reverse drill is centered carefully, as the broken stud backs out, so will the shim stock and the whole mess will be on the floor. Use a stainless bolt and torque to the recommended 25nm (I believe). Natural tendency is to tighten more, but if you use a tad of hi-temp gasket maker it will seal just fine.

Last edited by 540iman; 06-27-2011 at 02:10 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-08-2011, 09:32 AM
ELCID86 ELCID86 is offline
Registered User
Location: VA, USA
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 19
Mein Auto: 330i ZHP
Well, it happened to me too. I thought it was the torque wrench releasing, but it was actually the aluminum bolts/studs breaking. I was was able to back them out with a pair of Vice Grips-thankfully there was enough room to grab the remaining stub. 540iman do you know the size or part number of the bolt you replaced them with?

After more research, it appears the OEM numbers are 07129901921 or M6X30-8.8-ZNS. Anyone know of alternate sources?

Last edited by ELCID86; 10-08-2011 at 10:27 AM. Reason: update
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-08-2011, 01:21 PM
540iman's Avatar
540iman 540iman is offline
resident, old fart
Location: N.W. Indiana
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,504
Mein Auto: 2002 540i sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by ELCID86 View Post
Well, it happened to me too. I thought it was the torque wrench releasing, but it was actually the aluminum bolts/studs breaking. I was was able to back them out with a pair of Vice Grips-thankfully there was enough room to grab the remaining stub. 540iman do you know the size or part number of the bolt you replaced them with?

After more research, it appears the OEM numbers are 07129901921 or M6X30-8.8-ZNS. Anyone know of alternate sources?
order #6 X 30MM and #6 x 100MM for the long one you broke. Get several extra 100MM lonf bolts from Fastenal. No one will have in stock.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 10-22-2011, 02:21 PM
ELCID86 ELCID86 is offline
Registered User
Location: VA, USA
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 19
Mein Auto: 330i ZHP
Quote:
Originally Posted by 540iman View Post
order #6 X 30MM and #6 x 100MM for the long one you broke. Get several extra 100MM lonf bolts from Fastenal. No one will have in stock.
No luck with Fastenal. They only had the M6 in 1 meter that would have to be cut at a local shop (for a fee). I just ordered the OEM ones from ECSTuning. All ist gut!
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 10-22-2011, 03:16 PM
540iman's Avatar
540iman 540iman is offline
resident, old fart
Location: N.W. Indiana
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,504
Mein Auto: 2002 540i sport
I bought from Fastenal so either you did not ask for the right thing or you did not order in chrome. They sure do have them, but as I told you...most stores the salesman will have to get off his ass and look as they won't stock these on the shelf. The OEMs are aluminum so just be careful. If you don't use aluminum, use stainless steel (much preferrerd)
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10-25-2011, 05:07 AM
ELCID86 ELCID86 is offline
Registered User
Location: VA, USA
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 19
Mein Auto: 330i ZHP
Quote:
Originally Posted by 540iman View Post
I bought from Fastenal so either you did not ask for the right thing or you did not order in chrome. They sure do have them, but as I told you...most stores the salesman will have to get off his ass and look as they won't stock these on the shelf. The OEMs are aluminum so just be careful. If you don't use aluminum, use stainless steel (much preferrerd)
I did not ask about chrome, but the two different people I spoke with seemed knowledgeable and could not find the 30mm size in any metal. I do see M6-1.0x32mm Mild Steel in lots of 2500 units (@$3625) Fastenal Part No. (SKU): 11110835. The 1M Stainless is Fastenal Part No. (SKU): MR2551000A20000.

Perhaps if you find it you can post the part number for others here.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10-25-2011, 05:53 AM
540iman's Avatar
540iman 540iman is offline
resident, old fart
Location: N.W. Indiana
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,504
Mein Auto: 2002 540i sport
I just called the local Fastenal store and bought like 8 of the 30mm and 6 of the 100mm so I would have some extras. I probably have what you need, but by the time I look and mail, you should have. Toyota stocks them I believe for some application in one of their cars, but to get them to look up a part# is like pulling teeth. You don't need to buy a gross or a thousand. I bought pcs. I wanted and had them shipped to my house. Was under $15.

You can get the 30mm anywhere-Menards, Lowes. It was the 100mm I broke and so that's the one I really needed. Once they said they had the 100mm in stainless, I just went ahead and got the 30s to make sure I had no rust issues. I'm sorry, but the desk guy looked up the number for me. You should check hex head, cap heads, etc. I got hex heads like oem, but be willing to use a cap head if necessary. Will work just the same. Use a washer if you are concerned.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 10-25-2011, 06:19 AM
ELCID86 ELCID86 is offline
Registered User
Location: VA, USA
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 19
Mein Auto: 330i ZHP
Post the part number. Lowe's and Home Depot do not carry them here in VA (I checked a MD location also).
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 10-25-2011, 02:07 PM
Burning2nd Burning2nd is offline
Under the lift arms
Location: Under the lift arms
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,297
Mein Auto: E39 540, E36 328is, E83x3
Pitch and thread... FFs
__________________
Specializing In BMW, Audi, Mercedes Benz ,Volkswagen, Volvo
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 11-06-2012, 06:53 PM
marlinspike marlinspike is offline
Registered User
Location: VA
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4
Mein Auto: 540i
So what's the solution for the guy who is left with a piece of bolt broken way down in there? He seems to have disappeared. I'm in that same boat.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 11-07-2012, 05:57 AM
ELCID86 ELCID86 is offline
Registered User
Location: VA, USA
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 19
Mein Auto: 330i ZHP
Quote:
Originally Posted by marlinspike View Post
So what's the solution for the guy who is left with a piece of bolt broken way down in there? He seems to have disappeared. I'm in that same boat.
I know there are tools for backing out broken bolts. Do you have a Harbor Freight http://www.harborfreight.com/ near you? Search some here too. good luck.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 11-07-2012, 06:08 AM
marlinspike marlinspike is offline
Registered User
Location: VA
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4
Mein Auto: 540i
WWay too deep for any of those tools. I managed to get it using shoe go on the broken end of the bolt to unscrew the piece broken inside.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 11-07-2012, 07:08 AM
540iman's Avatar
540iman 540iman is offline
resident, old fart
Location: N.W. Indiana
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,504
Mein Auto: 2002 540i sport
Huh???
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
broken bolt, engine block, water pump


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > E39 (1997 - 2003)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:01 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms