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X3 F25 (2011 - current)
The latest X3 brings some added style and some new features to the BMW SUV family. Talk about the new F25 now!

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  #1  
Old 04-30-2011, 03:37 PM
silverforum silverforum is offline
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X3 35i or 28i (USA)

Hmm what is everyone's thoughts?
It seems 35i has more torque and HP - helpful in morning local road California traffic?
Is there additional maintenance and / or repairs costs for the 35i because it's turbo?

On my particular configuration because I'm getting Xenon and Sports Kit, and paying a fixed price off invoice, the price difference is only $3000 more (35i include xenon and lower sports package cost due to wheels)

Last edited by silverforum; 04-30-2011 at 07:05 PM.
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  #2  
Old 04-30-2011, 03:39 PM
Glen E Glen E is offline
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My thoughts:
The 3.5 is 4300 more

and provides a super kick in the pedal

4300 grand buys a lot of accessories

the 8 speed trans and the 2.8 do a damn good job

gotta drive both to figure out if it's worth it for you...

the turbo is rock solid for repairs...
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Last edited by Glen E; 04-30-2011 at 03:46 PM.
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  #3  
Old 04-30-2011, 03:40 PM
silverforum silverforum is offline
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Hmm it's actually only 3 grand more in my particular case, do you think I could get some of that back in resell 8-9 years later or will it just sink to ~$10000 regardless of model
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  #4  
Old 04-30-2011, 03:43 PM
Glen E Glen E is offline
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sorry... don't know your deal

my bad...diff in base MSRP's is 4300

i don't see one having a better resale than the other if equipped normally
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Last edited by Glen E; 04-30-2011 at 03:47 PM.
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  #5  
Old 04-30-2011, 05:06 PM
mole7374 mole7374 is offline
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I'll give you my perspective.....and just an opinion but my "original" opinion on the vehicle changed after driving both...

I went into this (before driving) fully prepared to buy the 28i b/c my perception was that it woudl be "more than enough" for whatever driving I'd need. And honestly it is.... there is no reason why the 28i is not enough for anyone b/c it's a rock solid engine/setup and has enough get up and go for anyone not a police officer and exempt from tickets!

HOWEVER...when I drove both, I can tell you I was immediately hooked on the 35 and wanted nothign more to do with that 28...what it came down to this... the 28 is all the bit exhilarating as any BMW...it drives well, gets up and goes etc...however...the 35 is COMPLETELY INFECTIOUS... I got out of the drivers seat and just wanted to hop right back in...I could not wait to drive it again...the 28 was fun every time I got in, but I was not longing to drive it and drive it and drive it like I was the 35. Yea you get more in the setup and yea you get more HP etc, but that wasn't the hook...the hook was that the fun and joy (no pun) in driving the 35 was addicting and infectious and I couldn't resist.

The resale meant nothing although I'm sure both will hold value equally...and I trust BMW and both engines being rock solid...again it came down to addiction and infectiousness.
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  #6  
Old 04-30-2011, 05:47 PM
tyresmoker tyresmoker is offline
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Mole has a point but it really boils down to what you are looking for and what your budget is.
Ours is really my wife's car...I do not drive it on a regular basis and the larger engine was of no interest to her.
If this car was something I would drive, I would consider the bigger engine...but in the end, I believe it comes down to value. I believe the closer this car gets to the 50k mark, the value proposition diminishes greatly.
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  #7  
Old 04-30-2011, 06:22 PM
mole7374 mole7374 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyresmoker View Post
Mole has a point but it really boils down to what you are looking for and what your budget is.
Ours is really my wife's car...I do not drive it on a regular basis and the larger engine was of no interest to her.
If this car was something I would drive, I would consider the bigger engine...but in the end, I believe it comes down to value. I believe the closer this car gets to the 50k mark, the value proposition diminishes greatly.
Yea this is a great point...b/c in the end we have to spend our hard earned money and while we're test driving and drooling we sometimes overlook that until it's time to calculate the payment...absolutely.

I like the "define value" statement...that could not be any more true. Honestly I love the X3 at like 42K but at 48K (my spend) it financially does not look at good b/c you start to creep up into areas where other vehicles have a value prop as well...that's another good point...and the decision becomes very subjective. I kinda threw caution to the wind b/c I fell more in love with the X3 than I thought I would before I drove it and I jumped in with both feet...I'm going to end up keeping it as long as I possibly can (10 years I'm hoping) so when I looked at the 4K or so I just rolled up the dollars into years and reset my value prop.

However yea know your intent and don't let the threads here change your buying habits.
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  #8  
Old 04-30-2011, 06:26 PM
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Shaw Shaw is offline
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bigger and stronger engine is always nice.. specially in a BMW
However I believe the 28i gives enough and is sufficient for a X3 and that the delta could be spent some other place...

Also with stiff driving regulations and speed limits 100km (70mls) on highways, experiencing the stronger engine doesn't happen often...
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Old 04-30-2011, 08:57 PM
Want the Thrill Want the Thrill is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glen E View Post
My thoughts:
The 3.5 is 4300 more

and provides a super kick in the pedal

4300 grand buys a lot of accessories

the 8 speed trans and the 2.8 do a damn good job

gotta drive both to figure out if it's worth it for you...

the turbo is rock solid for repairs...
Glen, do you say the turbo is rock solid for repairs because of the HPFP issues?
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  #10  
Old 04-30-2011, 08:58 PM
Glen E Glen E is offline
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the turbo presents no repair problems in longevity..
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  #11  
Old 04-30-2011, 08:59 PM
Want the Thrill Want the Thrill is offline
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Originally Posted by Glen E View Post
the turbo presents no repair problems in longevity..
Ok, got it
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  #12  
Old 04-30-2011, 09:33 PM
silverforum silverforum is offline
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hmm is there any turbolag or downside of going with the 35i?
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  #13  
Old 04-30-2011, 09:38 PM
Glen E Glen E is offline
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Due to direct injection, valvetronic and ECU programming, turbo lag is almost non hesitant.....no down side, just the $$$....
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  #14  
Old 05-01-2011, 12:11 AM
PotOdds PotOdds is offline
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I've heard if you are going to keep the car for long term i.e. 7+ years, a naturally aspirated engine like the 28i is more reliable than the turbo 35i.

Wouldn't you agree?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glen E View Post
the turbo presents no repair problems in longevity..
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  #15  
Old 05-01-2011, 03:41 AM
tyresmoker tyresmoker is offline
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Fundamentally that is absolutely true. I cannot think of an installation where the turbo application has outlasted the naturally aspirated one.
Turbos generate heat and force pressure to make added power. Over time, this causes excessive wear and tear as a result.
While technology has helped in this area, thermal cycles are what they are and one of the leading causes of ultimate mechanical failure.
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  #16  
Old 05-01-2011, 06:45 AM
Glen E Glen E is offline
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I respectfully disagree - mostly because that's the way it was done in the past where an engine was stressed due to the addition of a turbo. Where the car is built for turbocharging, it will last as long as non - turbo cars. The boost on these cars is moderate, there is more cooling and the cranks and pistons are strengthened. Remember, in the next few years everything is going to go smaller in displacement and add TC. See the article in the new road and track on Carrol Shelby and his comments on what's coming.

Another good example of new forced induction is the Mercury Verado outboard engine of 300 hp. Supercharged, designed by Porsche - generates 300 hp in 2.6L - going on 7 years with no problems whatsoever and an OB gets used a lot harder than car engines as they run at cruise (4000 rpm) or nothing. No gears and no rests..

And because 75% of BMW's cars are leased and come back and go back out as Certified pre owned cars with another mutil year warranty, BMW can't afford to have TC motors blow up even up to 12 years or they would lose the a$$.
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  #17  
Old 05-01-2011, 07:21 AM
UncleJ UncleJ is offline
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No doubt, turbos are the future. Hyundai (Kia), Ford, and others have jumped into the fray with their 4 cyl high output turbos for the fuel economy. I am sure that BMW will have a 4 banger turbo along soon as well. The Mercury Outboard (I love them BTW) is a great example of high output with less displacement, but no better than the Kia turbo 4 (274 hp from 2.2L) which is kind of amazing. I do worry about the long term (8-10 years) reliability of any turbo, except a diesel. A lot depends on how the engine was maintained and used, but given everything done right there is no reason that a turbo gasser couldn't make the OEM and CPO mileage gates without blowing up -- and that is really all BMW is concerned about because when those are passed you are on your own.

Last edited by UncleJ; 05-01-2011 at 07:35 AM.
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  #18  
Old 05-01-2011, 07:22 AM
mole7374 mole7374 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glen E View Post
I respectfully disagree - mostly because that's the way it was done in the past where an engine was stressed due to the addition of a turbo. Where the car is built for turbocharging, it will last as long as non - turbo cars. The boost on these cars is moderate, there is more cooling and the cranks and pistons are strengthened. Remember, in the next few years everything is going to go smaller in displacement and add TC. See the article in the new road and track on Carrol Shelby and his comments on what's coming.

Another good example of new forced induction is the Mercury Verado outboard engine of 300 hp. Supercharged, designed by Porsche - generates 300 hp in 2.6L - going on 7 years with no problems whatsoever and an OB gets used a lot harder than car engines as they run at cruise (4000 rpm) or nothing. No gears and no rests..

And because 75% of BMW's cars are leased and come back and go back out as Certified pre owned cars with another mutil year warranty, BMW can't afford to have TC motors blow up even up to 12 years or they would lose the a$$.
I agree 100%....
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Old 05-01-2011, 07:22 AM
tyresmoker tyresmoker is offline
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Do you have first hand experience with those Verado's?
The yard where I keep my tub is a big merc dealer. I see powerheads gettin changed out on those on a pretty regular basis....due to overstressed situations.
My experience with turbos is from the world of diesels, where strengthened cranks, superior cooling and "overbuilt" is par for the course. For the most part, any naturally aspirated diesel will outlive it's turbocharged cousin pretty considerably.
Also, BMW has lead the multiple valve tech/ overhead cam design for decades. Turbocharging is still a pretty new technology from a mass production standpoint for them.
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Old 05-01-2011, 07:25 AM
Glen E Glen E is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyresmoker View Post
Do you have first hand experience with those Verado's?
The yard where I keep my tub is a big merc dealer. I see powerheads gettin changed out on those on a pretty regular basis....due to overstressed situations.
My experience with turbos is from the world of diesels, where strengthened cranks, superior cooling and "overbuilt" is par for the course. For the most part, any naturally aspirated diesel will outlive it's turbocharged cousin pretty considerably.
Also, BMW has lead the multiple valve tech/ overhead cam design for decades. Turbocharging is still a pretty new technology from a mass production standpoint for them.

yes I do.... Verados are never changed out due to being stressed from forced induction - go ask....or go to the marine sites and try and find a link....they don't exist. we will agree to disagree on this...here's caroll shelby's remark about small engines being turbocharged in the future in R&T...



BTW, I have owned and run the verado owner's site for 5 years - do a search there for stressed out verados: www.veradoclub.com
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Last edited by Glen E; 05-01-2011 at 07:29 AM.
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  #21  
Old 05-01-2011, 12:56 PM
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raleedy raleedy is offline
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The 28i doesn't share the F10's advantage of superior fuel economy. That's mainly because the 28i has a numerically higher drive ratio that is one of the keys to its responsiveness. In fact, the US EPA numbers for the 35i are slightly better than the 28i's! And to one of the commenters: it's not a "bigger engine". Both are sixes, both 3 liters displacement. It's just more powerful because of the forced induction. What that means to me is that the extra power is there when wanted, but not in a way that represents a drag on economy when it's not needed. (Well, mostly. There is a bit of extra weight.) Both cars come with generous warranty and maintenance support. With respect to resale value, a good indicator is the residual value that BMW establishes for each model for its lease programs. I haven't seen recent numbers. But if BMW sets the residual percentage at the same level for both the 35i and the 28i, that means they believe there is no additional depreciation for one over the other. Lastly: bear in mind that BMW has signaled a change in the 28i sometime next model year. The six cylinder non-turbo engine will be replaced by a two-liter, four-cylinder turbo. Power will be lower, but torque and fuel economy will improve. On the other hand, many (including me) lament the loss of BMW's signature attraction in the silky smooth six.

Last edited by raleedy; 05-01-2011 at 12:58 PM.
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Old 05-01-2011, 01:00 PM
Glen E Glen E is offline
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agreed - the BMW snippet about it at the NY auto show:

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  #23  
Old 05-01-2011, 04:14 PM
tyresmoker tyresmoker is offline
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This is really nothing new..turbo technology was the industry "solution for power and efficiency" back in the 80's..sure we are a lot smarter now...but we thought we were pretty smart then....I don't think there are too many Chrysler 2.2,Ford 2.3 or GM 1.8's on eBay at the moment....

As far as the Verado's..I agree we will disagree, everyone that runs outboards offshore here runs Yamaha 4-strokes.
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Last edited by tyresmoker; 05-01-2011 at 04:15 PM. Reason: Grammer
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Old 05-01-2011, 09:03 PM
bmw5151 bmw5151 is offline
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28i will change engines

Remember that the 28i will become a turbo 4 cyl with better fuel economy beginning toward the end of the year. The 6 cyl 28i is a lame duck. Will this increase its resale value years down the line? Who knows.
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Old 05-02-2011, 03:57 AM
tyresmoker tyresmoker is offline
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I wonder the same thing...equivalent power is one thing, NVH is another. Never met a 4 cyl design that rid itself of it.
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