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E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

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  #26  
Old 05-05-2011, 01:45 PM
cn90 cn90 is offline
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Originally Posted by bobdmac View Post
Frank, are you eating a balanced diet?
He was in a bad mood today LOL.
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  #27  
Old 05-05-2011, 02:42 PM
Burning2nd Burning2nd is offline
Under the lift arms
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wrong spot sorry
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Last edited by Burning2nd; 05-05-2011 at 02:55 PM.
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  #28  
Old 05-05-2011, 04:42 PM
franka franka is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cn90 View Post
franka,

This not cheating at all, but "improvising" to get things done.
And this has been done thousands of times by many BMW mechanics/enthusiasts before with zero consequences.
So has alternativee tire pressures, yet many argue for BMWs liability specs.

So which way is it? Per BMW or not?
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  #29  
Old 05-05-2011, 05:15 PM
cn90 cn90 is offline
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Guys,

To put this issue to rest, I tried a new trick and it worked!

- As an example, if you need to jack the (R) REAR, chock the tire on the opposite side, namely the (L) front tire. Chock BOTH the fore and aft parts of that tire.

- Using a floor jack (not the factory jack that came with the car), jack the (R) FRONT Jack Pad until the (R) Front tire is about 3 inches off the ground. You will notice that the (R) Rear is also raised, although to a lesser extent than the Front.

- However, by the time, the (R) Front tire is 3 inches off the ground, the (R) REAR Jack Pad is high enough for you to slide the jackstand at its Lowest setting,
which works fine for virtually all jobs in the rear end.
I virtually never use the jackstand in extended position for fear that the "eyelet", the elliptical thing inside the jackstand fails!
For me the lowest setting works just fine.

- You can see that both my 5-ton bottle jack (Harbor Freight PN 99953) and standard 3-ton jackstand fit nicely, even when you lift from the Front Jack Pad!

- One thing I like about the 5-ton bottle jack is that: I can adjust the jackstand up and down using a screw driver!




PS: This is an example of jackstand failure in extended position, although this only happens with one particular brand, ironically the brand name was "PowerBuilt".
http://www.thehulltruth.com/dockside...under-car.html
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Last edited by cn90; 05-05-2011 at 05:16 PM.
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  #30  
Old 05-05-2011, 09:10 PM
BillAngel BillAngel is offline
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Ever seen a drive up vehicle lift. (4 post lift) In the middle of the 4 post lift, there is a rolling jack that will lift the vehicle up so you can remove the wheels and tires. The lifting of the vehicle (in the rear) is done by placing the 6" thick rubber block under the rear differentials of vehicle either at the pumpkin or at the skock/strut mounts on the differential. As per Manual.
I guarantee you that at least 1 BMW, at the BMW dealership, gets lifted from those points daily.
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  #31  
Old 05-05-2011, 09:32 PM
bobdmac bobdmac is offline
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540Alex has a different solution.

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  #32  
Old 05-05-2011, 09:36 PM
BillAngel BillAngel is offline
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Nice Garage.
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  #33  
Old 05-06-2011, 04:19 PM
cn90 cn90 is offline
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OK boys and girls,

I tried and it worked. JimLev was right.

I lifted the REAR end via the REAR Subframe OUTER (rearmost) attachment point.
This part is dead solid. The weight of the rear of the car is on these 4 attachment points on the rear subframe.

All you need is 2x4 or 4x4 treated lumber.
Home Depot sells 2x4 x 8ft treated lumber for $2.00 (Home Depot SKU is # 218458).
Plus Home depot cuts the wood for free for you.
So cut a variety of 8" and 10" lengths for your collection LOL.

The Rear Subframe bushing bolt sticks out, so you need to drill a hole 1" in diameter and 1" deep in the lumber that will be used for this purpose.

The driver's Rear side has a piece of rubber from the splashguard that is in the way so:
- it needs to be loosened for the lumber to go in...
- or modify the lumber (cut a NOTCH so it fits).

Whatever you do, this technique is very good for lifting the rear end if you don't want to lift via the rear differential.







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  #34  
Old 05-10-2011, 09:16 AM
sidneyj sidneyj is offline
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[QUOTE=bluebee;6044782]I've read a lot of jack point threads and all say to use the differential.

If you're going to say never use the differential, you have to:
[*]Say why not use the differential (what problem do you see using it)?[*]What should you use instead

[QUOTE]Because the rear differential is not a jack point and not a structural load bearing componet of the car. That's why I say don't use it and if professionals say don't use it then that's enough for me. Use the jack points designated for lifting the car or use ramps. Simple. I suppose using the rear differential hasn't caused any problems but how do you know you haven't stressed anything? Your assuming. Blubee I love your effort here but how about some facts now stating that it's ok to use the rear differential. Because it's been discussed a million times and many have done it doesn't make it right. I'll do it by the book and use simple logic and you do it your way.

Last edited by sidneyj; 05-10-2011 at 09:35 AM.
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  #35  
Old 05-10-2011, 09:56 AM
cn90 cn90 is offline
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Alright,

We are back to Jacking up via REAR DIFFERENTIAL issue.
To demystify this, let's forget "BMW and the professionals" for a moment.

As I mentioned before, as is true for many other things in life, there is more than 1 way to skin a cat. The "by-the-book" way is always there but sometimes not practical.

One needs to look at this from a "scientific point of view" so to speak.
I will list the picture again for discussion.

* The weight of the REAR end of the car bears down on Bushings 4,5,6,7.

* When lifting via Rear Diff, the force of the UPWARD lift from the floor jack is transferred via Rear Diff Bushings 1,2,3, which are attached to the Rear Diff via big bolts.

* So time for Q&A session:

1. Can the REAR DIFF be damaged?
No, if you do it correctly with rubber pad (I use rubber piece from old tire) and jack it up via the "main body" of the REAR DIFF.
Remember the REAR DIFF casing is rock solid metal.
As mentioned before, do not lift near the driveshaft area.


2. Can the bolt be bent?
Not really, this is BIG bolt.
It is M14 size!.
FYI, the wheel lug is only M12 in size!


3. Can the Rear Diff bushings (#1,2,3) be damaged?
Not really, 667 lbs on each of these bushings mean nothing.

Don't lose sleep over this! It has been done 100 times before with no issues, if done right LOL.



Last edited by cn90; 05-10-2011 at 09:57 AM.
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  #36  
Old 05-10-2011, 09:59 AM
cn90 cn90 is offline
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Having said all of the above (jacking via REAR DIFF is safe), I have to say that if you are worried, then jack via the FRONT pad!
The REAR pad will come high enough for jackstand at its lowest setting.

See my post from May 05, 2011.
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  #37  
Old 05-10-2011, 07:55 PM
franka franka is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cn90 View Post
Alright,

We are back to Jacking up via REAR DIFFERENTIAL issue.
To demystify this, let's forget "BMW and the professionals" for a moment.

As I mentioned before, as is true for many other things in life, there is more than 1 way to skin a cat. The "by-the-book" way is always there but sometimes not practical.

One needs to look at this from a "scientific point of view" so to speak.
When I used the 'scientific' argument for more pressure in the front tires than the rear, the vast majority of the responses were to stick with the BMW spec because its the spec.

I made the same argument to you, for the same reason, just a few posts back.
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  #38  
Old 05-10-2011, 08:02 PM
franka franka is offline
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Yes the diff works, as a jack point, and it has worked for many years. And many dealers and indies have used it.

Still, its not the BMW recommended way. Its not even the BMW alternative way. It is NOT recommended by BMW.

Just want that to be clear. Personally 'I really do not care'. Just like in the US Postal commercial.
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Last edited by franka; 05-10-2011 at 08:04 PM.
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  #39  
Old 06-06-2011, 08:35 PM
bimmerteck bimmerteck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
I've read a lot of jack point threads and all say to use the differential.

If you're going to say never use the differential, you have to:
  • Say why not use the differential (what problem do you see using it)?
  • What should you use instead

I, for one, use the differential - but if there is a 'better' place to jack the rear up from, I'm always ready to learn.

I was trained to never lift any BMW with aluminum rear subframe by the differential, The instructor also explained that the mount for the rear of the diff is engineered to receive torque in very specific planes determined by the design of the housing and the location of the mounts, and that introducing stress(lifting the vehicle by the diff) from other angles could cause unseen damage to the aluminum mounting ear that is welded to the aluminum subframe and it can contribute to catastrophic failures later down the road.(see image below)

Therefore, I have always used the factory approved jack points(listed in the owners manual and TIS) on e39s to lift and the control arm mount locations/subframe mount locations to support the vehicle such that I am not putting any undue stress on welded on bits of the aluminum rear subframe.



Last edited by bimmerteck; 06-06-2011 at 08:36 PM.
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  #40  
Old 06-06-2011, 08:49 PM
cn90 cn90 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerteck View Post
...Therefore, I have always used the factory approved jack points(listed in the owners manual and TIS) on e39s to lift and the control arm mount locations/subframe mount locations to support the vehicle such that I am not putting any undue stress on welded on bits of the aluminum rear subframe...
This whole thread is about Saturday mechanic (not the shop which has lifts) trying to put the REAR end on jackstand.
Just curious what you do for this situation.
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  #41  
Old 06-06-2011, 09:24 PM
bimmerteck bimmerteck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cn90 View Post
This whole thread is about Saturday mechanic (not the shop which has lifts) trying to put the REAR end on jackstand.
Just curious what you do for this situation.
I am now technically, a very highly educated and equipped "Saturday mechanic" ever since a back injury permanently sidelined my "BMW Technician" career a few years back.


Your post a few up (#33 IIRC) shows a great alternate way to lift the rear using wood blocks placed on the main subframe mount points, or you could use the front jack pad and place a jackstand under the rear jackpad on the same side as you showed a few posts before that. The thread didn't seem to be short on acceptable methods to lift a e39 but was clearly lacking data explaining why "the pros" don't do it by jacking under the diff especially on this particular chassis.
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  #42  
Old 06-06-2011, 09:50 PM
cn90 cn90 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerteck View Post
...Your post a few up (#33 IIRC) shows a great alternate way to lift the rear using wood blocks placed on the main subframe mount points, or you could use the front jack pad and place a jackstand under the rear jackpad on the same side as you showed a few posts before that.
I appreciate you showing the broken rear diff mount, it is very educational. I think it is rare that it happens but the severity of that warrants alternate jackpoints than rear diff.

- As I mentioned before, for anything that does not require removal of the wheel (changing rear diff fluid), I recommend driving up wood ramps.

- For jobs that require removal of the wheel (brake job, rear wheel bearing, rear suspension overhaul), believe it or not, jacking the FRONT jackpad is enough to raise the REAR so jackstand can be placed at its lowest setting on the REAR jackpad. This was exactly what I did when I did the REAR suspension overhaul. In my 25 years of wrenching, I virtually never extend the jackstand above its lowest setting because I slide on top of cardboard, not creeper LOL (The creeper adds more height ---> extend jackstand).
I think the jackstand is strongest at its lowest setting because it rests on the shoulder instead of the elliptical "eyelet" inside the jackstand.

- As you mentioned, the Rear Subframe mounting points: pass side is easy because it is exposed. Driver's side, I am working on a wood cutout now (because it is blocked by the exhaust and by the rubber flap) and will post later. This is the same as above picture:


Last edited by cn90; 06-06-2011 at 09:52 PM.
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  #43  
Old 04-10-2012, 05:35 PM
Burnout Burnout is offline
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Just used cn90's rear subframe jacking point method (complete with the DIY wood adapter) to great success to get around a rusted out rear driver's side jacking point.

Great solution, thanks for sharing.
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  #44  
Old 08-17-2012, 12:23 PM
cn90 cn90 is offline
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Having a good pair of jackstands is important, but you never know when the jack stands collapse killing you.

So having a backup system (tire under car or another jackstand in the central jacking point) is absolutely crucial.

This post will serve as a reminder that a jack stand can fail. Granted the jack stand is made by "Central Machinery" (sold at Harbor Freight) so the welding may be subpar.

http://central-machinery.pissedconsu...110287881.html



Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous
I am a mobile mechanic and I use jack stands frequently. I am dissatisfied with the performance of the Central Machinery 3 ton jack stands. Two sets of jacks collapsed on two different occasions. The first occasion I could have lost my life, within one minute of getting from under the car, the jacks collapsed. The second instance occured as I lowered a car onto the jacks. These incidents happend within six months of each other and with fairly new jacks. I have looked other places and have not seen complaints about this but I know it has happend to other people and I hope they were not harmed by the faulty design of these jacks.
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  #45  
Old 08-17-2012, 02:28 PM
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bluebee bluebee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cn90 View Post
when the jack stands collapse killing you
And ... I add ... you never know when there will be an earthquake (which, out here, happens a few times a year).

Ever since I saw the cn90 wheel-under-the-frame trick, I've been using it myself.

In addition, I always leave the floor jack still touching the differential ... just in case.

But, of course, if the 'big one' happens, ... well ... um .... gulp.
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