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E63 / E64 6 Series (2004 - 2010)
The E63/E64 BMW 6 Series builds on BMW's sporty heritage with aggressive lines and an incredible motor to back the design up. Available in coupe and convertible trims with a standard 4.8 liter engine producing 360 horsepower and 360 lb-ft of torque, the 6-series is a popular choice that exceeds expectations.

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  #1  
Old 04-24-2016, 09:29 AM
stephane76700 stephane76700 is offline
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Location: France
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 52
Mein Auto: 650i Automatic
Lambda values and strange idle

Hi !!!

On my 650i Automatic with 180000km i've little problem since 1 year.
Idle are not perfect, needle up and down slowly and engine sound follow needle.

I feel little shaking in seat and when I touch engine.

When i push pedal at arround 20%, i smell the engine search the good rpm, up down up down for keep rpm after 3 - 4 seconds and always shaking.

When the car is cold, the first 2km is not comfortable, with 20% on pedal, if i watch needle of rpm, she up to 1400 stay 1 second and up to 1500 stay 1 second ...

When engine is hot, it's better but not like engine would work.

I try to change to 0.8mm minimum lift but no change, i restore to original value 0.3mm

Lambda values of INPA and Rheingold say something but i don't understand if it's bank 1 or 2 have a problem...
I think at vacuum leak, i try to use a brake cleaner on engine on seal/o-ring, not effect on rpm.

No oil leak, valve cover bank 2 are just remplaced with cps o-ring and eccentric o-ring
vacuum pump o-ring
vanoss o-ring
ccv are ok
air filter, engine oil ok last month
spark plug
maf sensor seem to be ok when I use INPA to show values in real time

No error in DME, i perform intermediate lever tolerance test, rheingold say it's good

Screenshot of INPA & Rheingold :

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/att...1&d=1461515206

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/att...1&d=1461515206

Thank's for your help, sorry for language, I'm French and in state of diesel, V8 engine are forget !
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Last edited by stephane76700; 04-24-2016 at 09:50 AM.
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  #2  
Old 04-24-2016, 12:17 PM
HerbP HerbP is online now
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Location: Georgia
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,246
Mein Auto: 2005 645Ci & 2007 750Li
I suspect you have a vacuum leak, or a lazy O2 sensor? A smoke tester will help find the vacuum leak. Did you have this problem before you removed the valve cover? It also makes me wonder if you accidentally knocked off one of the retainer springs?
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  #3  
Old 04-24-2016, 12:31 PM
stephane76700 stephane76700 is offline
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Location: France
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 52
Mein Auto: 650i Automatic
Hi HerbP !

Yes I have this problem before :/ when i start the car for the first time after replace valve cover gasket, i believe the problem are solved but no :/
If I have a good memory, you have help me for this cover.

For smoke test, if it's you, you gave me a tip for test vacuum leak without smoke machine but impossible to find this post !

With screenshot, what do you thinking ? Bank 1 or 2
On bank 1, eccentric sensor gasket have dirty oil, i have cleaned with brake cleaner, start engine and send during 10 seconds on the gasket, no reaction of engine.

Tommorow i will use drei bond on this seal just for try if the leak is here
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  #4  
Old 04-24-2016, 05:58 PM
89Falcon 89Falcon is offline
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Location: Spring, TX
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 46
Mein Auto: '10 650i Conv
Cubans work best...

Quote:
Originally Posted by stephane76700 View Post
Hi HerbP !

Yes I have this problem before :/ when i start the car for the first time after replace valve cover gasket, i believe the problem are solved but no :/
If I have a good memory, you have help me for this cover.

For smoke test, if it's you, you gave me a tip for test vacuum leak without smoke machine but impossible to find this post !

With screenshot, what do you thinking ? Bank 1 or 2
On bank 1, eccentric sensor gasket have dirty oil, i have cleaned with brake cleaner, start engine and send during 10 seconds on the gasket, no reaction of engine.

Tommorow i will use drei bond on this seal just for try if the leak is here


Use a cigar....
__________________
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  #5  
Old 04-24-2016, 07:25 PM
HerbP HerbP is online now
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Location: Georgia
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,246
Mein Auto: 2005 645Ci & 2007 750Li
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephane76700 View Post
Hi HerbP !

Yes I have this problem before :/ when i start the car for the first time after replace valve cover gasket, i believe the problem are solved but no :/
If I have a good memory, you have help me for this cover.

For smoke test, if it's you, you gave me a tip for test vacuum leak without smoke machine but impossible to find this post !

With screenshot, what do you thinking ? Bank 1 or 2
On bank 1, eccentric sensor gasket have dirty oil, i have cleaned with brake cleaner, start engine and send during 10 seconds on the gasket, no reaction of engine.

Tommorow i will use drei bond on this seal just for try if the leak is here

Remove the seal & visually inspect it. It is very easy to remove, & cheap. If it has any dry rot or cracking on it, it is bad. Yes this can cause your problem.

You can cause the engine to push positive pressure out of the motor, by plugging the CCV vent tubes, on both ends. I do not assume any liability for this method, but it worked for me. Do not leave the engine running any more than needed, due to the chance of damaging something. If anything any vacuum leak is present, smoke will start coming out. This same exact seal drove my engine crazy, along with me. Change both seals before doing any unnecessary work.
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  #6  
Old 04-25-2016, 10:41 AM
stephane76700 stephane76700 is offline
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Location: France
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 52
Mein Auto: 650i Automatic
Hi guys !

Good tip with cigar Falcon but i don't smoke cigaret or cigar :/

I've removed the seal, some trace of oil under the seal/valve cover. When I inspect the seal in detail, I can see the surface is not perfectly straight, like screw are too much torqued and crush one side more than other side, some irregularity under the ring like "dammage".

I will try with silicone seal if it's better during I wait the new seal, for 4$ I will not take the risk to save money and start a big work on engine !
I post 3 photos in few minutes

http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.ph...782IMG2880.jpg

http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.ph...305IMG2883.jpg

http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.ph...169IMG2885.jpg

Last edited by stephane76700; 04-25-2016 at 10:54 AM.
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  #7  
Old 04-25-2016, 09:16 PM
HerbP HerbP is online now
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Location: Georgia
 
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Mein Auto: 2005 645Ci & 2007 750Li
The seal looks deformed, but I really can't see any pitting on the sealing surface where it fits around the sensor. I would wait & change both seals, then see if your problem goes away. I don't think it is worth applying silicone to the seal, & getting it inside the engine.

The cigar actually made me think of another way to make a smoke machine. Take a small shop vac, & let the suction side suck in smoke from anything. Take the exhaust side, & force the smoke inside the intake of the engine. This would pressurize the inside of the engine, & force the air & smoke back out. Easy enough to do!
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  #8  
Old 04-25-2016, 11:01 PM
stephane76700 stephane76700 is offline
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Location: France
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 52
Mein Auto: 650i Automatic
I have just apply silicone on valve cover, not more than needed

Yesterday i've bought smoke machine for party, i Will try du ring the end of work day. And try if idle are better with silicone seal added
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  #9  
Old 04-28-2016, 01:41 PM
stephane76700 stephane76700 is offline
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Location: France
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 52
Mein Auto: 650i Automatic
Hi all

Good News!
I have applied silicone seal on oring eccentric sensor, today i try the car... Very very better, no shaking, or very little, with or without ac Compressor !
Now the car are very cool and smooth when i take off or during accélération, i have flush my gear box and torque converter two month ago, it's a very pleasure to drive... Bmw say sheer driving pleasure... It's true !

New Seal are on the road, when i have, i Will perform smoke test for erase All chance to have vacuum leak on another part of engine.

Saturday, every work should be done and car will be happy, and me too !

I go back to Tell my result good night everyone
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  #10  
Old 04-28-2016, 07:44 PM
HerbP HerbP is online now
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Location: Georgia
 
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Mein Auto: 2005 645Ci & 2007 750Li
It is amazing what a tiny seal leak can do to our engines! It does make you think, what the Hell is going on with my engine, & how to use the software to narrow it down.

Glad you found the culprit!
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  #11  
Old 04-29-2016, 10:00 AM
stephane76700 stephane76700 is offline
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Location: France
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 52
Mein Auto: 650i Automatic
yes it's very amazing !

gearbox seem to be better than before with leak, i discover my car for the 2nd time
About software, I don't understand values, INPA & Rheingold don't show the same value for same parameter, maybe INPA show the real value without interpretation and rheingold do it ? but how read lambda value on every line and know what is the best value ??

I search some informations and go back post my result for help people in the same situation.
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  #12  
Old 04-30-2016, 04:07 PM
stephane76700 stephane76700 is offline
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Location: France
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 52
Mein Auto: 650i Automatic
HI mens !!

i doing screenshot of new values of my smoothy car

minor difference between two bank, but it's normal i think, i have not perform smoke test today, maybe last weekend

in the same moment, i have coded EGS module, i have deactivate NIC !

it's more better ! very cool, i have impression drive car with 10km
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Last edited by stephane76700; 04-30-2016 at 04:08 PM.
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  #13  
Old 04-30-2016, 07:20 PM
HerbP HerbP is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Georgia
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,246
Mein Auto: 2005 645Ci & 2007 750Li
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephane76700 View Post
yes it's very amazing !

gearbox seem to be better than before with leak, i discover my car for the 2nd time
About software, I don't understand values, INPA & Rheingold don't show the same value for same parameter, maybe INPA show the real value without interpretation and rheingold do it ? but how read lambda value on every line and know what is the best value ?
I search some informations and go back post my result for help people in the same situation.
INPA shows the Analog & Digital values, but I use DIS for the Lambda values. It is a more in-depth test, & helps to narrow down the problems.
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  #14  
Old 05-08-2016, 03:40 AM
stephane76700 stephane76700 is offline
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Location: France
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 52
Mein Auto: 650i Automatic
I Have not DIS, I try one time but it's very so slowly, Rheingold are more faster but seem to be less completed than DIS.

Now, all values are same for both bank.
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  #15  
Old 05-08-2016, 05:39 PM
HerbP HerbP is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Georgia
 
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Mein Auto: 2005 645Ci & 2007 750Li
DIS runs in the Unix language, & it is very slow to boot. It does have a better trouble shooting path. Reingold probably might have the same service functions, but it is harder to find your way around. Glad the 2 seals fixed your problems. A very small vacuum leak can cause all kinds of problems with the fuel air ratio.
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