Lance Armstrong - cheating liar?

Originally Posted by helter

He should just admit the drug use. Giving up all his awards is pathetic. The truth is before all the evidence comes crashing down, he's dropping out and will play the role of victim before things destroy his reputation any further.
This reminds me of the white collar criminals who give a portion of their stolen money to charity as a reason to love them.

Lance, just say "I did drugs like a lot of people, I'm sorry for that but I've also done a lot of good too". At least we could respect you more.
Just my 2 cents

Wouldn't testing positive fall into play in admitting it? All they have is team members that have been given 6 month bans for testimony that said that he did. Yet there test can't prove it.

Maybe he is smarter than the test

Originally Posted by jummo

Apparently, if you beat a dead horse long enough....

My guess is USADA told Lance what the witnesses were going to say and he knew it was over.

This way he can continue to lie and deny to himself, and the rest of us can draw whatever conclusions we want.

Lance likes to claim that he is the most tested athlete ever and that he never failed a test.

Both of these statements are untrue.

Marion Jones is actually the wearer of that crown and we all know how that story ended.


jummo

This.

Originally Posted by helter

He should just admit the drug use. Giving up all his awards is pathetic. The truth is before all the evidence comes crashing down, he's dropping out and will play the role of victim before things destroy his reputation any further.
This reminds me of the white collar criminals who give a portion of their stolen money to charity as a reason to love them.

Lance, just say "I did drugs like a lot of people, I'm sorry for that but I've also done a lot of good too". At least we could respect you more.
Just my 2 cents

This too.

Funny thing... I work in the bicycle industry, and certainly owe some of the money I've made in the last ten or twelve years to what we call "The Lance Affect." I'm grateful for it, I just wish Lance would come clean and stop branding everyone else as a liar or someone with a vendetta.

LOL- we all know Jan Ulrich must've been squeaky clean and kept up with all these evil dopers through sheer genetics and willpower.

Originally Posted by carve

LOL- we all know Jan Ulrich must've been squeaky clean and kept up with all these evil dopers through sheer genetics and willpower.

I'm pretty sure if they went after every rider in those tours like they did LA, the eventual "winner" would be dead by the time they got to him. "Who finished 148th? What do you mean we don't have any of his drug tests stored? We can't test him any more, he's dead! Guess he was the true winner of that race. Now, on to the 2001 results..."

So, perhaps from now on, if you want your name in the record books when you're dead, you should start shooting for 2nd place in the TDF :P

Every single rider who finished top ten in a tour Lance won save for one, has a doping violation in his history. As a matter of fact, a rider named Jimmy Casper (Fr) who twice finished Lanterne Rouge, was later suspended for doping. If they're looking for the first clean cyclist, then the good news is, I won the 2002 Tour. Just hope I didn't do too much allergy medicine that summer...

I like what Michael Spector from the New Yorker wrote "Lance Armstrong-could a Hollywood screenwriter come up with a better name for an American hero?-had returned that year to the world's most gruelling test of endurance, the Tour de France. He had spent the previous two years being treated for testicular cancer that had spread throughout his body, which, at the time, was more often than not a death sentence. The chemotherapy Armstrong received was so powerful and so toxic that he suffered burns on his arms from the inside. How could somebody even ride a bicycle after that, let alone win a race that lasted a month, scaled the highest peaks in Europe, and covered more than two thousand miles?"

Even if he did use performance enhancing drugs he's still an amazing athlete who accomplished more than most other cyclists (dopers or not).

Originally Posted by ///M3lissa

I like what Michael Spector from the New Yorker wrote "Lance Armstrong-could a Hollywood screenwriter come up with a better name for an American hero?-had returned that year to the world's most gruelling test of endurance, the Tour de France. He had spent the previous two years being treated for testicular cancer that had spread throughout his body, which, at the time, was more often than not a death sentence. The chemotherapy Armstrong received was so powerful and so toxic that he suffered burns on his arms from the inside. How could somebody even ride a bicycle after that, let alone win a race that lasted a month, scaled the highest peaks in Europe, and covered more than two thousand miles?"

Even if he did use performance enhancing drugs he's still an amazing athlete who accomplished more than most other cyclists (dopers or not).

This is true. But at the same time, if you've followed his career without any hero worship, you would have to agree that LA has always been a pr!ck to his peers. (Google Christoff Bassons or Gilberto Simeoni) Yes, he's an amazing athlete among in a dirty sport, but he got caught cheating. It's time to man up and accept the punishment.

BTW, LA's net worth is approximately $125 million. If the price of that is having to return some trophies and a couple million in prize money, I wouldn't consider that a bad trade.

Originally Posted by jonathan2263

This is true. But at the same time, if you've followed his career without any hero worship, you would have to agree that LA has always been a pr!ck to his peers. (Google Christoff Bassons or Gilberto Simeoni)

We hear this all the time, but I always ask if that outweighs the good he's done for the rest of the world outside of the sport?

Honestly, this has gone on for longer than the statute of limitations for many crimes, proving it's personal. LA is not a hero to me, but he is to many cancer patients, and, for their sake, I wish the people with personal agendas would let it go. Even if he is/was a pr!ck to them.

Originally Posted by jonathan2263

This is true. But at the same time, if you've followed his career without any hero worship, you would have to agree that LA has always been a pr!ck to his peers. (Google Christoff Bassons or Gilberto Simeoni) Yes, he's an amazing athlete among in a dirty sport, but he got caught cheating. It's time to man up and accept the punishment.

BTW, LA's net worth is approximately $125 million. If the price of that is having to return some trophies and a couple million in prize money, I wouldn't consider that a bad trade.

Where is the proof he was cheating?

From what I understand, all they've got is some verbal reports from the people he was pricks to He said, she said... where are the positive test results? What is the point of all that testing if the results are ignored?

If he was cheating he's done a brilliant job avoiding positive test results (another reason for the victims of his "prickery" to speak out against him).

Originally Posted by M&K

We hear this all the time, but I always ask if that outweighs the good he's done for the rest of the world outside of the sport?

Honestly, this has gone on for longer than the statute of limitations for many crimes, proving it's personal. LA is not a hero to me, but he is to many cancer patients, and, for their sake, I wish the people with personal agendas would let it go. Even if he is/was a pr!ck to them.

+ 1

Originally Posted by ///M3lissa

Where is the proof he was cheating?

From what I understand, all they've got is some verbal reports from the people he was pricks to He said, she said... where are the positive test results? What is the point of all that testing if the results are ignored?

If he was cheating he's done a brilliant job avoiding positive test results (another reason for the victims of his "prickery" to speak out against him).



+ 1

The evidence from the closed government investigation was handed over to USADA. Therefore, it's not merely "he said, she said" from people he's been a jerk to, it's eyewitness testimony, given under oath before a grand jury, by former teammates, among others, who were always working to help LA win races. In a court of law in the United States, sworn eyewitness testimony is perfectly acceptable evidence.

We will just have to wait for the evidence to be made public to know for sure what it is. Travis Tygart, the head of USADA, has implied that will happen when Johann Bruyneel takes his case to the Court Of Arbitration For Sport.

I haven't ready all the material yet, but I think the sh*t just hit the fan for Armstrong

USADA just publicly released all their US Postal team investigation documents.

http://cyclinginvestigation.usada.org/

Originally Posted by ///M3lissa

I haven't ready all the material yet, but I think the sh*t just hit the fan for Armstrong

USADA just publicly released all their US Postal team investigation documents.

http://cyclinginvestigation.usada.org/

I just saw 5 minutes ago on the CBS news, the guy (don't know his name) who was on the team was asked a direct question if Armstrong was doping. He took a long time to answer and then gave a long answer that they were ALL doping, all the while shaking his head from side to side saying "no".

Every body language person would tell you that these are two signs that he was lying.

Originally Posted by MatWiz

I just saw 5 minutes ago on the CBS news, the guy (don't know his name) who was on the team was asked a direct question if Armstrong was doping. He took a long time to answer and then gave a long answer that they were ALL doping, all the while shaking his head from side to side saying "no".

Every body language person would tell you that these are two signs that he was lying.

You've watched too much "Lie to Me"...

Originally Posted by cwinter

You've watched too much "Lie to Me"...

Nah. I've watched many people...

There was sworn testimony given by riders who, so far, have seemed beyond reproach. LA will have a difficult time branding his friend George Hincapie as a liar with an axe to grind and a book to sell.

Additionally, there is a trail of money (over $1 million) leading directly from LA to Dr. Michelle Ferrari, a known dope doctor and someone LA claims to have only had casual contact with since 2004.

There is also scientific evidence gathered from dope controls which show highly suspect blood values. While these are technically not considered "adverse analytical findings" they do point to blood manipulation and are a red flag for further testing.

As was said in a previous post, the evidence appears to be overwhelming and damning. If anyone truly still believes that LA rode clean, then he was the only one. (even his blood values from 2009 + 2010 are suspect). The odd thing is, while I've always thought "of course they all dope, they're pro cyclists, aren't they", when the decision was made public yesterday, I couldn't believe how deep the conspiracy goes. Seemingly, we have an entire generation of dirty cyclists.

The best thing now would be for LA to come clean, and work with the governing bodies toimprove the state of our sport. But we all know that will never happen. Just last week, LA was quoted as saying that his conscience is clear. I take that as another example of his supreme d-baggery. I know he has been an inspirational figure, and without a doubt, an amazing athlete, but the bottom line is, he cheated. There's no way around that, and unless he does come clean, he will go down in history as an unrepentant fraud.

And the former UCI head Hein Verbruggen is now running for cover :'

From Cyclingnews.

He also denies uttering the words reported on Cyclingnews and in the USADA reasoned decision: "I repeat again: Lance Armstrong has never used doping. Never, never, never."

[The original report came from the Dutch news outlet AD.nl - his exact words were, "Lance Armstrong heeft nooit doping gebruikt. Nooit, nooit, nooit."]


I think this should be the beginning of the end of the UCI.

To think they sued Landis for slandering their good name.

Originally Posted by ademitt

To think they sued Landis for slandering their good name.

Landis deserved to get slapped around a bit. An entire BOOK ("Positively False") about how he never cheated, only to come clean on it later? Karma. I'm more pi$$ed because I rooted for that guy, especially after reading his book. I mean, I have the discipline to read, like, three books a year without crayon marks and pictures and I finished that one. Nuts.

But LA's problems are just beginning. From what I read of the documents, public opinion is just now beginning to form and sour.

Watching this will be like clowns on fire. Kind of funny, kind of sad.

Originally Posted by Dork Knight

Landis deserved to get slapped around a bit. An entire BOOK ("Positively False") about how he never cheated, only to come clean on it later? Karma. I'm more pi$$ed because I rooted for that guy, especially after reading his book. I mean, I have the discipline to read, like, three books a year without crayon marks and pictures and I finished that one. Nuts.

But LA's problems are just beginning. From what I read of the documents, public opinion is just now beginning to form and sour.

Watching this will be like clowns on fire. Kind of funny, kind of sad.

Who's the bigger liar? Landis or the clowns at the UCI who accepted the $125k donation from Lance for doping research after his positive at the Tour de Suisse.

The report contains some interesting information in the affidavits. It seems Bruyneel knew days in advance that random testing of his riders was going to occur.

This will go far beyond UPS/Discovery/Radio Shack teams and into the administration of professional cycling and others associated with LA and his activities. Apparently LA's ex-wife Kristin is now implicated for storing and distributing PED's.

If the evidence is so damning, why did the DOJ cancel their investigation? The lead investigator, Novitsky, apparently dug up most of this evidence and did not know his superiors had called the whole thing off on a Friday afternoon at 5 PM.

Will LA pay back all the money he got for his now famous slander suits?

George Hincapie is the final nail in the coffin for Lance's supposed innocence.

Lance has such support from the Cancer community that he appears to believe that he is better off not admitting anything. Denial has gotten him this far.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/radi...-with-bruyneel

The dominoes continue to fall...

Thunk.......

Was that another domino falling?

From cyclingnews

The NY Daily News reports that Kathy LeMond testified under oath during a 2006 deposition in the SCA arbitration case that Julian Devries, a mechanic for Armstrong's team, had told her and others that Nike and Thom Weisel – the San Francisco banker who sponsored and part-owned Armstrong's team - had transferred $500,000 to a Swiss bank account that belonged to Verbruggen.

The money was apparently sent to cover up a 1999 positive drug test for corticosteroids, which Armstrong had used to treat saddle sores.

Armstrong's former soigneur Emma O'Reilly, backed up the claims that the positive test was covered up in an affidavit to USADA. Armstrong has always claimed that he never tested positive for drugs.

Maybe that is why Nike has not started to distance itself from LA unlike his other sponsors.

Originally Posted by ///M3lissa

Hahahahahaha...

Today's news about Nike is a stunner. Apparently, we have yet to see how far this goes. Meanwhile, Levi got canned by his team today, Matt White stepped aside... And so it goes.

Now Nike reverses their position and dumps Lance while he resigns as CEO of Livestrong.

from cycling news:

In a sudden change of stance, Nike has has announced it has terminated Lance Armstrong's contract because of the "seemingly insurmountable evidence that Lance Armstrong participated in doping and misled Nike for more than a decade."

At the same time Armstrong revealed he has stepped down as the chairman of the Livestrong cancer charity.

The web of deceit is coming apart.