Lance Armstrong - cheating liar?

Originally Posted by Sportsdad

if we're consciously going to allow steroid use in our minds, then all athletes should have access to them legally. To allow some access to illegal drugs to enhance performance is giving advantage to those who are willing to risk their life to pursue enhanced athletic ability is simply not fair. And in sports, making a level playing field for all is what the competition aspect of sports is all about. Those who went outside what the rules and regulations to further enhance their performance cheated. Its that simple. Strip them of any titles if it can be proven without a doubt.

Hold on, many, many people do this now. Guys play through pain and destroy themselves for glory and cash. We all know the story of Lott and his finger. Steve Young kept trotting out to have his brains smashed up by Warren Sapp. Eventually he'd decided his cash to risk ratio had reached its limit and quit. That's the reality of pro sports... how far will you go to make the money.

As for titles... irrelevant. Do you think Reggie Bush gives a damn about his Heisman? He's collected $50 million bucks by age 30 and his entire family is living large off it. They don't really do it for titles. If they played for "love of the game" then Peyton Manning and Drew Brees would take league minimum salaries and help their teams invest in a legion of quality players. Instead they play for the almighty buck and in the end when they walk with a limp and can't remember their kid's birthday they will complain how the NFL (or any pro sport) took too much from them.

I'll leave the fairness thing... as life's not fair. Some guys have insane talent, some incredible drive and some a willingness to do that which others won't...

Originally Posted by brkf

He was an entertainer and he entertained. The laws are irrelevant (and totally without merit ...

Huh? When you sign the back of your racing license, you agree to abide by the rules set forth by USA Cycling, UCI, WADA and USADA (or the particular governing body of your country). I know this because its what I agree to every year when I sign my USA Cycling license.
It's the same reason they have refs in football. Everyone agrees to play by the rules and they need to be enforced.

Originally Posted by ///M3lissa

It will be interesting to hear what UCI announces Monday morning.

Pretty sure they'll agree to the ban and stripping titles. Anything less makes them look more complicit than they already look.

Originally Posted by jonathan2263

Huh? When you sign the back of your racing license, you agree to abide by the rules set forth by USA Cycling, UCI, WADA and USADA (or the particular governing body of your country). I know this because its what I agree to every year when I sign my USA Cycling license.
It's the same reason they have refs in football. Everyone agrees to play by the rules and they need to be enforced.

+1 - any professional athlete that cheats and prospers with what is seemingly little consequences (aside from losing a title) to the tune of $125 million is sending the wrong signals to our youth. Far from a good example and without UCI doing something significant monday, I think it will destroy their credibility and that of cycling.

Those that treat all sports as pure entertainment with no regard for the rules except those they choose to enforce are partly responsible for the destruction imo.

Originally Posted by jonathan2263

Huh? When you sign the back of your racing license, you agree to abide by the rules set forth by USA Cycling, UCI, WADA and USADA (or the particular governing body of your country). I know this because its what I agree to every year when I sign my USA Cycling license.
It's the same reason they have refs in football. Everyone agrees to play by the rules and they need to be enforced.

Who are they? Those are organizations that profits wildly off cyclers/players. If your company paid you to do a job and you took a cocktail of drugs to be way better at it, thus making even more money for them with no risk to anyone...well in the end you both profit off it.

Originally Posted by wyb

+1 - any professional athlete that cheats and prospers with what is seemingly little consequences (aside from losing a title) to the tune of $125 million is sending the wrong signals to our youth. Far from a good example and without UCI doing something significant monday, I think it will destroy their credibility and that of cycling.

Those that treat all sports as pure entertainment with no regard for the rules except those they choose to enforce are partly responsible for the destruction imo.

Think about the kids... oh think about what Johnny may think. Wait a second, we're in the same country where Ray Lewis helped some men escape after they killed someone, right? Mike Vick ran a criminal enterprise for years; he had staff and housing set up for his criminal enterprise yet the public could only talk about the stupid dogs and once he ran back a touchdown his organized crime was forgotten. Kobe Bryant...yeah... in the end we barely punish real crime but a guy convinces the public into thinking his entertainment is anything more than entertainment, well he's evil. Barry Bonds and his roids, look out about the kids they may want to hit 70 homeruns too! Tiger Woods cheated on his wife - damn him and Nike!

Weird world...

Originally Posted by brkf

He was an entertainer and he entertained. The laws are irrelevant (and totally without merit - like marijuana laws and miscegenation laws, they're invasive and have no place in the personal/professional lives of others). He should pack up and move outside the reach of the hypocritical US. Live out life somewhere peaceful and like I said, come back in a few years and collect a few more million for writing a book that says nothing...

SNL publicized this idea back in 1988. Maybe it's time to do it for real. Why should pro wrestling be the only sport with blatant drug use?

http://www.hulu.com/watch/4090

Originally Posted by brkf

Who are they? Those are organizations that profits wildly off cyclers/players. If your company paid you to do a job and you took a cocktail of drugs to be way better at it, thus making even more money for them with no risk to anyone...well in the end you both profit off it.

Those are the organizations who's rules every American cyclist agrees to abide by. Lance broke the rules, he got caught, and now he has to pay the (small) price. It's simple.

http://www.usacycling.org/forms/gove...Statements.pdf

BTW...usacyclings total net assets at the end of the fiscal year 2010 was a little over $13 million. LA's are estimated at $125 million. So who was profiting wildly ?

huh, UCI did it. I wasn't sure they had the balls to confirm the USADA ban on Armstrong

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-...rongs-life-ban

armstrong's been stripped of his 7 tour titles

Originally Posted by ///M3lissa

huh, UCI did it. I wasn't sure they had the balls to confirm the USADA ban on Armstrong

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-...rongs-life-ban

I don't see how they could have avoided it. The evidence was overwhelming, and if they chose to take it to the CAS, all their dirty laundry would have been aired also. Now, in terms of LA, all that remains to be seen is what they decide to do with the prize money he's going to have to return and what they do with the titles.

Then we have the cases against Bruyneel, Ferrari, other implicated cyclists and teams, etc. etc. etc...

This isn't over by a long shot.

Originally Posted by milobloom242

armstrong's been stripped of his 7 tour titles

My favorite irony of this is that he's probably going to be stripped of his bronze medal from the 2000 Olympic Time Trial. However, the guy who won the silver in the same race, who keeps his medal, is non other than Jan Ullrich.

Almost an entire generation of cheats.

It's tough to see the singling out when it's our guy, and he had been considered an inspiration.

But either we believe in the rules or we don't. And if they're going to get serious about this stuff, they've gotta start somewhere. Agree they had little choice but to do this.

Never followed that cheesy yellow wrist band band wagon.

What a poser.

[QUOTE=jonathan2263;7150038

Almost an entire generation of cheats.[/QUOTE]

Kind of like baseball.

At least there's still the athletes from WWF and World's Strongest Man left to believe in.

And Pee Wee Herman, and Brett Favre, and Joe Paterno and....

Nevermind.


jummo

The Joe Rogan podcast interviewed a high level steroid guy who made designer steroids for our olympic men and women.
Sounds like to me, everyone is on it at that level.

And now it's time for a housecleaning of the corrupt leaders at the UCI, according to Greg Lemond, the only American to win a tdf.

Way to go Greg for saying what many cycling fans have thought for years.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/...mcquaid_262523

+1. Time for him to just go away. He's a total fraud and his rehabilitation stunt with Oprah is disgusting.

Originally Posted by Spiderm0n

It's a tough one. I think most of the guys in cycling have known for some time that if they don't juice, they'll be somewhere in the middle/rear of the pack. I can only imagine that further inroads will be made in performance enhancing drugs and practices that are hard to detect. 'Practices' as in blood doping is probably not technically a drug.

he perjured himself, threatened people for calling him a doper, sued (and won) lawsuits against several newspapers on libel/slander theories (even though what they printed/said was true), lied to Congress.....arguably defrauded all of his sponsors, including the US Postal Service, Livestrong, Nike etc.

Threw his teammates under the bus, the list goes on.

Why should he get to "apologize", he's a friggin' deceptive, intentional liar, and kept this charade up for many, many years.

He just didn't "make a mistake", or have a "lapse in judgment", he did it for many, many years...he had a deliberate, sustained campaign to conceal his violation of laws, cycling rules, ethics, morality, you name it.

The only thing I like about the story is that Oprah's crappy interview, on her crappy network which appears to be failing, got scooped.

I like how sources leaked this story long before the interview will air, so we all know what will come...instead of having Oprah advertise it as, a stunning admission by Lance, you'll have to watch my show to find out what it is....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...gations-video/

video compliation of just some of his adamant denials over the years....

Lance also used his charity to help defend him.

Originally Posted by pilotman

he perjured himself, threatened people for calling him a doper, sued (and won) lawsuits against several newspapers on libel/slander theories (even though what they printed/said was true), lied to Congress.....arguably defrauded all of his sponsors, including the US Postal Service, Livestrong, Nike etc.

Threw his teammates under the bus, the list goes on.

And it looks like he is going to continue to do so. Isn't it being said that he is also offering up testimony against doping teammates in exchange for exoneration?

Lance Armstrong has shown himself to be a classic psychopath: charming, able to manipulate people to his ends, able to mimic emotions without actually feeling them, and able to perpetuate a lie endlessly until it stops serving his needs, at which time he shifts to another lie until that stops working. All the while, he disregards social and actual laws and mores, disregards the feelings of others, displays occasional outbursts when threatened or confronted, and all the while feels no remorse or guilt for what he is or has done.

If we stopped paying attention to him, he'd go away, quite possibly literally and by his own hand.

Originally Posted by pilotman

he perjured himself, threatened people for calling him a doper, sued (and won) lawsuits against several newspapers on libel/slander theories (even though what they printed/said was true), lied to Congress.....arguably defrauded all of his sponsors, including the US Postal Service, Livestrong, Nike etc.

Threw his teammates under the bus, the list goes on.

Good points all. A sustained lie that he profited handsomely from.