"Tip-In" and "Initial Acceleration" problems fixed

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

Thanks.

Thank you so much for your help, Eyesight1 !!

Wow! Why is it that BMW is so hard to work with? I had no idea. I will take your suggestions. Thanks for your advice. Between that and my paint issue...I guess it gives me even more of a reason to get out of this car and into another. Good luck to you!

Originally Posted by KMLgsoNC

Wow! Why is it that BMW is so hard to work with? I had no idea. I will take your suggestions. Thanks for your advice. Between that and my paint issue...I guess it gives me even more of a reason to get out of this car and into another. Good luck to you!

7 weeks for a paint issue? WTF? I've found BMW to be very easy to work with, both the dealers and BMWNA, but 7 weeks would break me.

Anyone know if this site is credible?... it seems to be keeping track of the F10 problems and fixes.

http://www.truedelta.com/car-problem...&session_code=

Originally Posted by DuneMan

Anyone know if this site is credible?... it seems to be keeping track of the F10 problems and fixes.

http://www.truedelta.com/car-problem...&session_code=

looks to be the same data that is pulled from the NTSB site where all of these issues are tracked

Originally Posted by UNCtarheels

looks to be the same data that is pulled from the NTSB site where all of these issues are tracked

thought i would post this again since there are many questions out there

Thanks for the information. I have a 2011 528 and I am experiencing the same response when accelerating from a stand still. I have had my car sent in for a SW which took 2 days and i think it is now a little better. Unfortunately i had to park my car and travel. I will test it again to see if it has really improved.

Originally Posted by hatemramadan

Thanks for the information. I have a 2011 528 and I am experiencing the same response when accelerating from a stand still. I have had my car sent in for a SW which took 2 days and i think it is now a little better. Unfortunately i had to park my car and travel. I will test it again to see if it has really improved.

the fix is for the 535i only, to date, there has not been a fix (at least that we have heard of) for the 528i

Originally Posted by DuneMan

Anyone know if this site is credible?... it seems to be keeping track of the F10 problems and fixes.

http://www.truedelta.com/car-problem...&session_code=

I have taken part in reporting side for true delta over the past 5 years on 3 other cars I own; I think the way they collect data seems to be better and more accurate; They are nags when it comes to missed reports but I guess thats what it takes, I think they are trying very hard to get accurate data - the quality of which I'm not educated enough in the matter to confirm or deny is any better than what the rest of the guys collecting this data are doing.

Originally Posted by bmguy

I have taken part in reporting side for true delta over the past 5 years on 3 other cars I own; I think the way they collect data seems to be better and more accurate; They are nags when it comes to missed reports but I guess thats what it takes, I think they are trying very hard to get accurate data - the quality of which I'm not educated enough in the matter to confirm or deny is any better than what the rest of the guys collecting this data are doing.

i posted directly to the NTSB where they are tracking this info

Originally Posted by DuneMan

Anyone know if this site is credible?... it seems to be keeping track of the F10 problems and fixes.

http://www.truedelta.com/car-problem...&session_code=

He relies on individual contributors, not published statistics. You send in your info and pay to access data on his website.

I've complained of this issue in my E60/N54 2010 535i to my local SA, but he tells me (correctly, I think) that SIB 12 09 11 only applies to F10/N55.

1) Is my SA right?
2) Is anyone experiencing this in something older than an F10?

This is my first bmw and I'm absolutely addicted to how it drives otherwise, but this particular issue is incredibly annoying and potentially dangerous.

Originally Posted by Rand

I've complained of this issue in my E60/N54 2010 535i to my local SA, but he tells me (correctly, I think) that SIB 12 09 11 only applies to F10/N55.

1) Is my SA right?
2) Is anyone experiencing this in something older than an F10?

This is my first bmw and I'm absolutely addicted to how it drives otherwise, but this particular issue is incredibly annoying and potentially dangerous.

Yes, he's right. obviously you didn't read the 311 posts on this thread shame on you.

Originally Posted by TJPark01

Yes, he's right. obviously you didn't read the 311 posts on this thread shame on you.

Read every single one, actually. Even still, wasn't clear that this was an F10 only issue, though certainly most people discussing the issue here are F10 drivers. Thanks for your reply nonetheless.

Originally Posted by Rand

Read every single one, actually. Even still, wasn't clear that this was an F10 only issue, though certainly most people discussing the issue here are F10 drivers. Thanks for your reply nonetheless.

The fact that this thread is in the F10 section and that everyone that has had this software patch has a F10 535, one would probably assume that's the case. But if you car is experiencing the same thing, I would try hitting up the guys on the E60 forum to see if they have a solution. Good luck.

Technically, the problem & fix also apply to F07. And maybe F11 as well.

Originally Posted by tdepetra

Several days now since my s/w update and all is still good.

For reference, my car is a September build 535 with x-Drive, non-sport and non-SAT.

The following information was on my workorder. However, I think this data describes the state/version of the car before the tech test drove the car to duplicate the problem, and does NOT describe the fix. Read all the way down for more.

SIB 12 09 11
00-00-556(2) 61-00-730(4) 10-42-03-71-00DL

Here are the changes since the update: 1. Hesitation gone at all speeds and no more feeling like the brake hold feature is activated starting from a dead stop 2. Marginally quicker gear changes (up and down) 3. Minor enhancements to I-drive menu items in main menu. 4. Brighter and distinctly "amber" blind spot triangles (my wife thinks I'm crazy -- says they have always been that way) 5. Startup (warm/cold) RPMs oscillate between 800-1200 for 15 seconds or so. I don't like this characteristic, but I believe it was most likely engineered intentionally to induce faster warm-up and reduce emissions.

Another discovery: if you press and hold the trip mileage reset button on the IP for 15-20 seconds, it will give you a menu with four choices, the first is "01 Identification" This menu is in a very small shaded font, and there is line after line of information (screen after screen you have to toggle thru with the button) that is meaningless to me, but I believe identifies every characteristic of the car. It will be very difficult for me to photograph this, except at night -- IP lighting on, and hoping I have the right focus. Other menu items include "02 System test", "03 Test end" and "04 Unlock", but I wasn't going any further with any of this! The car must be running, not just powered up with electrical, and the only way to exit the menu is to shut the car off. This is interesting but somewhat useless unless you have reference points: (1) do all these #s mean what we think they mean, i.e are they software versions? If so, there are a lot of them, and what systems or subsystems specifically do they relate to? (2) do cars with different optional equipment or performance packages have different software versions -- some shared and some not? Well, useful or not. Here is what I found under "identification":

SWFL 1 08 00 00 07 65 01 1A 00
SWFL 2 08 00 00 07 66 01 1A 00
SWFL 3 08 00 00 03 C3 04 15 01
SWFL 4 08 00 00 07 69 01 08 08
SWFL 5 08 00 00 12 AA 01 03 00
SWFL 6 07 00 00 07 64 01 00 30
Following are these, as part of the "identification" menu, with similar numbers that I won't replicate here.

HWT1
HWY2
VIN
HW index
Manufact.
Company
STDcore
Conv. Index
Hardware
BTLD

I don't know I'd any of this will help at all, nor do I have a sense if one week from today, the car's behavior will remain good. Good luck!

Now the agonizing wait continues for my wife's new Volvo XC60 T6 that is still on a truck somewhere after a full week enroute from port in Baltimore. Another new car to learn!

Took my 535i for the 18,000 mile service. Local dealer was unaware of the SIB 12 09 11 fix. They checked their system and downloaded the fix. Took them all day and two times to get the fix to work. This also ended up changing many of my presets on the radio???? And, in the end, I saw no difference in the throttle lag.
Local dealer definitely has problems, but there is no others which a close.

Originally Posted by romeofrosty

Only from a dead stop. Not really bad, but somewhat noticeable. No lag after it's moving, like passing. Don't know how to explain it....seems pedal has to be pressed more than it should before getting an immediate throttle response. Like a small dead spot, I suppose. Only in normal mode. No lag in sport mode. Response is immediate.

I have the same issue. I'm glad to know that I'm not the only one (misery loves company). I took my 2011 528i to the shop today and explained it to the SA and shop foreman. They both tried to tell me that this is "normal". I have a hard time believing that a car of this caliber doesn't accelerate smoothly not matter what the situation. Especially "the ulitmate driving machine"!

Originally Posted by romeofrosty

Took my car to the dealer today. Went for a drive with the shop foreman in the service department. He said the slight lag I felt was "normal". The TSB everyone seems to be refering to in this thread is for the N55 engine, which I understand to be the turbo charged version. My 528i has the N52 engine, which is naturally aspirated. Apparently there is no TSB regarding it, at least that I am aware of. They offered to reflash the adaptive driving memory to start its process over again and said they would check the electronic specs for the throttle movement. As long as they are within their parameters, the tech said there was nothing else he could do.
He gave me the "drive by wire" speech and explained it would not respond like cable or linkage actuated mechanisms. I told him I have a Honda that is also "drive by wire", and the throttle response of that car is instant and consistent throughout its entire pedal travel, not at all like the laziness of the BMW. Again I was told that as long as the readings he got were within specs, there was nothing further he could do. I'm not real happy with that. This is my first experience with BMW and their service procedures, so I'm not sure where to go from here. I did compare it to a loaner 528i they gave me and the throttle response on that car was about the same......still lazy, but maybe a hair better from a dead stop. I guess their take will be since all our cars have the same problem, yours is "normal" and compares with any other new 528i on the lot.
Has anybody with a 528i on this board dealt with this issue? It seems most on this thread have the 535i. Any advice would be appreciated at this point.

Your description of your experience is virtually identical to what I went through this morning with the SA and shop foreman. I't almost like you were there! They must send out a script on what to say when a customer complains of this ... I miss my E55!

I've finally got time to deal with this issue on my '11 528i. I know the response will be "it's normal and without codes there's nothing to be done." I will, however, be requesting that a BMW NA engineer look at the car when he's in the shop and discuss if it's possible to work with them on new programming. I'm still of the mind nothing is broken, it's just the result of purposeful programming decisions.

I had the same discussion with Buick about our Enclave's crap transmission hunting on hills...any hill large or small. Turns out based on customer suggestions GM engineers created optional programming that resolved the hunting (although with a slight decrease in mpg). I had my SA apply the update and it definitely fixed the hunting.

I'm hoping for the same result with BMW NA or at least get the ball rolling for the creation of better, optional programming.

We'll see.

Now that we have cold weather, I've observed a new behavior with the transmission.

On my first acceleration after the car has been sitting for 6-8 hours, the engine revs really high in between first and second gears, and when the "clutch" lets out, 2nd hits hard and can cause some major whiplash.

This cannot be normal.

And BTW, the acceleration on this thing is still utterly dangerous and BMW should have its pants sued off.

Does anybody else experience the cold weather issue?

I have a 2012 and have to say that we've had cold weather and warm weather this winter, (warm enough to have the stop-start engage) and I have not experienced the problems referred to in this thread. When I first purchased the car, it might have been slight, but since then the break-in period has almost elapsed, and I have had no tip-in symptoms whatsoever. Sport Mode or Normal Mode, the car launches smoothly and briskly. It starts instantly without any shaking. I don't know if this is caused by how it has been broken-in, fuel, or just that the problem has been engineered away. Has anyone tried 93 or better octane fuel? I'm using 91 mostly.

My shifts are super smooth. But I had the same behaviour that you describe on my retired E46. From first to second on a cold engine, no matter how soft I would baby the gas pedal, the shift would be rough. 3 minutes later the shift would be butter-smooth and stay that way until the car got cold again. This was a minor issue as it lasted for only few minutes into the drive. I wonder if that's related to BMW's way making their trannies (my E46's tranny was built by GM).

My F10 is smooth though. The tip-in delay is another story. I still have that and it's not going away as far as I can see. Once in motion things are magically great. Still haven't made it for a test drive of 2012 model to see if they've changed it.

Originally Posted by yogi799

My shifts are super smooth. But I had the same behaviour that you describe on my retired E46. From first to second on a cold engine, no matter how soft I would baby the gas pedal, the shift would be rough. 3 minutes later the shift would be butter-smooth and stay that way until the car got cold again. This was a minor issue as it lasted for only few minutes into the drive. I wonder if that's related to BMW's way making their trannies (my E46's tranny was built by GM).

My F10 is smooth though. The tip-in delay is another story. I still have that and it's not going away as far as I can see. Once in motion things are magically great. Still haven't made it for a test drive of 2012 model to see if they've changed it.

The GM6 transmission only has one good use; as a replacement for this:

Well, as shocked as I was to find out that BMW would subcontract GM (especially back in the day, late 90s!!) to build such criticial component (why not ask GM to make engines too?? ) - I have nothing but good things to say about that tranny. It was really great for the 130k miles that I used it. With a super minor exception of cold rough shift, that's it. I've figured GM had two types of assembly lines - one for ****ty domestic market and the other for real cars & brands of the world. The QA was probably way higher on the latter... Still a shocker. GM making parts for BMW? That kind of parts?? (what does that tell one about GM...)


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