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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #51  
Old 06-21-2011, 09:12 PM
RyanS RyanS is offline
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Picked my 535xi up yesterday and the tip-in issue is very apparent! I'm going to try to get them to perform this update. Will update...
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  #52  
Old 06-22-2011, 04:08 AM
DChaffins DChaffins is offline
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Noob13

6 hours to update may seem like a lot of time to you, but I have driven a jerky car for 20,000 miles. As far as I am concerned, they could have kept it as long as they wanted if they fix the problem. I broke my own rule by buying this car in the first model year......never again!
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  #53  
Old 06-22-2011, 11:19 AM
nilc nilc is offline
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Is this problem specific to automatic transmissions only, or does it also affect manual transmission, as well?

I am picking up my 535i 6-speed tomorrow, and wanted to see if I should ping them to install this update in advance.

Thanks.
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  #54  
Old 06-22-2011, 12:00 PM
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Needsdecaf Needsdecaf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nilc View Post
Is this problem specific to automatic transmissions only, or does it also affect manual transmission, as well?

I am picking up my 535i 6-speed tomorrow, and wanted to see if I should ping them to install this update in advance.

Thanks.
Auto only. Sleep easy tonight!~
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  #55  
Old 06-22-2011, 01:11 PM
nilc nilc is offline
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Thanks! I feel much better - although I'm not sure I'll get much sleep (for a good reason rather than worry)
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  #56  
Old 06-23-2011, 10:01 PM
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drbmw drbmw is offline
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Got my tip-in problem fixed through the dealer software update. Have had the car now for two days. The acceleration problem is fixed: from a slow roll, or standstill, or at 20-30 mph there seems to be smooth linear acceleration now. The only oddity that I have noticed is that I get better gas mileage. Drove 75 miles of hiway at 70 mph. Before update got 29.4 mpg max. After update on this short hiway stretch got 33.0 mpg!!! Weird. Not complaining, and need to verify that the computer is still showing accurate mileage. Has anyone else noticed this increase in gas mileage?
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  #57  
Old 06-23-2011, 10:12 PM
UNCtarheels UNCtarheels is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drbmw View Post
Got my tip-in problem fixed through the dealer software update. Have had the car now for two days. The acceleration problem is fixed: from a slow roll, or standstill, or at 20-30 mph there seems to be smooth linear acceleration now. The only oddity that I have noticed is that I get better gas mileage. Drove 75 miles of hiway at 70 mph. Before update got 29.4 mpg max. After update on this short hiway stretch got 33.0 mpg!!! Weird. Not complaining, and need to verify that the computer is still showing accurate mileage. Has anyone else noticed this increase in gas mileage?
funny that you mention that, i have noticed the same issue...but in th opposite direction...i am averaging lower than before...prior to fix around city i was avg 25-26...after fix 23-24...prior to fix hwy avg was 35, after fix 33

either way, it really isnt that much and i am thrilled to avg this considering I have a 535i..just glad this fix took care of the tip in to be honest!!
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  #58  
Old 06-24-2011, 07:14 AM
nlk10010 nlk10010 is offline
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Yea, I've got to say, this SportAuto tranny is a mixed bag.

On the one hand I like the overall feel as opposed to, say, my old MB E63 7 speed auto which was a true slush box. The F10 tranny keeps the revs higher and is generally way more responsive. OTOH, the shifts can be very grabby and jerky. Accelerating through the gears in Sport mode you can feel a slight pause at each upshift and it's gotten to the point that when I want to accelerate hard from a roll I'm VERY careful when I press on the pedal so as to avoid a bad jerk. VERY disappointing. I've driven mostly 6-speeds and wifey never complained about the character of my upshifts and downshifts but does notice these.

Everyone's different and frankly this particular problem is not a killer for me so I've held off visiting the dealer; frankly, the misadjusted driver's door latch is more of a bother but I'm so afraid of the service department opening up the door that I've decided to live with that. Eventually I will, however, try to get this tranny thing taken care of, as soon as I hear of a general consensus on a fix.
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  #59  
Old 06-24-2011, 08:09 AM
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EddieNYC EddieNYC is offline
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Wow. Interesting read about this issue, and woohoo for the software patch.

From one perspective, who is in charge of the car? The driver or the computer...

Drive by wire.

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  #60  
Old 06-24-2011, 05:43 PM
helodrive helodrive is offline
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Cool Maybe a fix for the hesitation issue.

Have your dealer look a Bulletin =SI B 12 09 11. It refers to the hesitation issue.

My car was programmed yesterday so I don't know if it is fixed yet.

The service order said Level of vehilde E F010-10-03-504. Programmed and encoded complete vehicle to bring to current I-level. Continued vehicle test and quick deleted fault memo RY. Reset RDC. Road tested and varified repair.

I left the car overnight and they had it ready the next day. They also did the annual oil change.
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  #61  
Old 06-24-2011, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
Edmunds Inside Line has noted the same issue with their long term 528 as well. Its not the turbo, its the throttle and transmission programming. Its not related to actual engine power at all. .



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I noticed this with an F10 528 loaner. That throttle lag is not fun, especially if you need to get out of a situation.
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  #62  
Old 06-28-2011, 08:44 PM
UNCtarheels UNCtarheels is offline
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Originally Posted by car-fan View Post
I noticed this with an F10 528 loaner. That throttle lag is not fun, especially if you need to get out of a situation.
you are right!! that is exactly how i noticed it that made me go next day and ask for the fix!!
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  #63  
Old 06-28-2011, 08:57 PM
Quacker Quacker is offline
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I called BMWNA and elevated it at my dealer's suggestion, since my dealer's last attempt to fix it with a reprogramming that did not take all that long, did nada. BMWNA told me to make another appointment with the dealer and that service would coordinate with BMW engineering on fixing it. The dealer called and said that he would get me a loaner (I asked for a 6 Series convertible - but no dice). He did say that I should expect them to have the car a few days.

Let's hope that this second attempt to fix it works since I too am worried about seeing someone's grill getting larger in the rear view mirror and feeling that helpless feeling as I push in 3/4 throttle and get nothing but lethargy in response.
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  #64  
Old 06-28-2011, 09:02 PM
UNCtarheels UNCtarheels is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quacker View Post
I called BMWNA and elevated it at my dealer's suggestion, since my dealer's last attempt to fix it with a reprogramming that did not take all that long, did nada. BMWNA told me to make another appointment with the dealer and that service would coordinate with BMW engineering on fixing it. The dealer called and said that he would get me a loaner (I asked for a 6 Series convertible - but no dice). He did say that I should expect them to have the car a few days.

Let's hope that this second attempt to fix it works since I too am worried about seeing someone's grill getting larger in the rear view mirror and feeling that helpless feeling as I push in 3/4 throttle and get nothing but lethargy in response.
if BMWNA is now working directly with your SA, you should be in good shape. Luckily my SA took care of all of that for me and took care of the escalation. let's hope it gets fixed this time, definitly update this post afterwards and let us know
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  #65  
Old 06-30-2011, 01:47 AM
romeofrosty romeofrosty is offline
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Took my car to the dealer today. Went for a drive with the shop foreman in the service department. He said the slight lag I felt was "normal". The TSB everyone seems to be refering to in this thread is for the N55 engine, which I understand to be the turbo charged version. My 528i has the N52 engine, which is naturally aspirated. Apparently there is no TSB regarding it, at least that I am aware of. They offered to reflash the adaptive driving memory to start its process over again and said they would check the electronic specs for the throttle movement. As long as they are within their parameters, the tech said there was nothing else he could do.
He gave me the "drive by wire" speech and explained it would not respond like cable or linkage actuated mechanisms. I told him I have a Honda that is also "drive by wire", and the throttle response of that car is instant and consistent throughout its entire pedal travel, not at all like the laziness of the BMW. Again I was told that as long as the readings he got were within specs, there was nothing further he could do. I'm not real happy with that. This is my first experience with BMW and their service procedures, so I'm not sure where to go from here. I did compare it to a loaner 528i they gave me and the throttle response on that car was about the same......still lazy, but maybe a hair better from a dead stop. I guess their take will be since all our cars have the same problem, yours is "normal" and compares with any other new 528i on the lot.
Has anybody with a 528i on this board dealt with this issue? It seems most on this thread have the 535i. Any advice would be appreciated at this point.
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  #66  
Old 06-30-2011, 04:46 AM
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BobRBob BobRBob is offline
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romeofrosty, my 528i is the same. It has that sort of dead spot in the throttle when starting off. After reading all this I'm pretty sure that's how it's supposed to be but it does seem strange that BMW would design the car that way. Others here have said that this is not characteristic of drive by wire throttles so it clearly doesn't have to be this way. It really doesn't bother me that much but I have become more aware of it the more I drive the car. I will mention it to the dealer just to log the concern but I'm not expecting any effective adjustment at this point. Possibly, with enough complaints, they will reprogram the thing at some point (assuming it's a software issue).
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  #67  
Old 06-30-2011, 07:24 AM
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Needsdecaf Needsdecaf is offline
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The "lag" is not normal. Although it's normal in that all the cars have it, but it shouldn't be there.
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  #68  
Old 06-30-2011, 08:27 AM
Quacker Quacker is offline
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If you can do the same maneuver in SD and not experience the lag - then it's a software problem (poor software design). But it also might be a matter of degree. The idea that it is "doing what it is designed to do" is a poor excuse that is too often offered when there is nothing wrong with your particular vehicle and "they all do that." The natural and often overlooked conclusion is that "...then they are all defective by design." With poorly designed software, that's what it often comes down to.

I have demonstrated to my tech that I get a 2 second lag when stepping on it as I coast down to 20mph. He readily agreed that it was an issue. My approach is that it is a safety issue (which it seriously is) and I have been presenting it this way. I'll be back in there in 2 weeks. As per BMWNA, the dealer will be working with BMW engineering on it. I think they can tell that I am unwilling to live with it as it is, and I would suggest that nobody should.
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  #69  
Old 06-30-2011, 11:19 AM
Alecop77 Alecop77 is offline
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Is there another bulletin related to this...or does SI B 12 09 11 cover it?

Also is this one issue or two - meaning dead acceleration from a stop vs. jerky acceleration while driving...?

I have experienced the dead acceleration from a stop.

A
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  #70  
Old 06-30-2011, 11:28 AM
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BobRBob BobRBob is offline
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Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
The "lag" is not normal. Although it's normal in that all the cars have it, but it shouldn't be there.
Yes, I agree.
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  #71  
Old 06-30-2011, 11:31 AM
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BobRBob BobRBob is offline
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Originally Posted by Alecop77 View Post
Is there another bulletin related to this...or does SI B 12 09 11 cover it?

Also is this one issue or two - meaning dead acceleration from a stop vs. jerky acceleration while driving...?

I have experienced the dead acceleration from a stop.

A
I am assuming from this thread that this software update did not address the issue. I also assume that my car has it already as it was built in late April.

I think it's all the same issue but don't hold me to it.
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  #72  
Old 06-30-2011, 11:45 AM
romeofrosty romeofrosty is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quacker View Post
If you can do the same maneuver in SD and not experience the lag - then it's a software problem (poor software design). But it also might be a matter of degree. The idea that it is "doing what it is designed to do" is a poor excuse that is too often offered when there is nothing wrong with your particular vehicle and "they all do that." The natural and often overlooked conclusion is that "...then they are all defective by design." With poorly designed software, that's what it often comes down to.

I have demonstrated to my tech that I get a 2 second lag when stepping on it as I coast down to 20mph. He readily agreed that it was an issue. My approach is that it is a safety issue (which it seriously is) and I have been presenting it this way. I'll be back in there in 2 weeks. As per BMWNA, the dealer will be working with BMW engineering on it. I think they can tell that I am unwilling to live with it as it is, and I would suggest that nobody should.
I completely agree. I will have to lodge a complaint with BMWNA if they stick to the "normal" conclusion. It has scared me a few times when pulling out from a stop sign into traffic, thinking you have plenty of time and ease onto the accelerator only to find yourself moving like a snail, then having to stomp on it to get moving as traffic nears. Knowing it exists has made me aware and I can compensate for the impending lag. But what if I let someone use the car in the same scenario, who is not aware, and results in a near miss or accident as a result? I see a certified letter to BMWNA in my future...
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  #73  
Old 06-30-2011, 12:13 PM
iamthewalrus iamthewalrus is offline
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This sounds like complex programming to enable BMW to hit its fuel efficiency targets. This is one reason I like manual transmissions; they're just so much simpler and easy to control. You rarely hear about these types of unexpected or unpredictable acceleration patters with a manual transmission.

-James
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  #74  
Old 06-30-2011, 12:14 PM
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BobRBob BobRBob is offline
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It's funny, Toyota was forced to do a massive recall because of unintended acceleration that probably was caused by floor mats or something inane like that, not the vehicle electronics. Here, we have a similar problem affecting acceleration, apparently caused by a shortcoming in the drive by wire throttle software, and there's no acknowledgement that a problem exists. What would be required to get the exposure needed for a recall? Is this problem potentially dangerous or is it just annoying?
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Last edited by BobRBob; 06-30-2011 at 12:15 PM.
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  #75  
Old 06-30-2011, 12:24 PM
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alewifebp alewifebp is offline
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Bingo! Higher CAFE standards mean that auto makers need to be more aggressive at "training" the driver to be sparing with the accelerator. Of course, in the F10, they could have also trimmed some of the fat off the car, but I digress. Electric steering and run flats are also consequences of CAFE.

I will say that this tip in issue sounds similar to how my E70 behaves. Even though I have this throaty NA V8 at my disposal, it is sometimes difficult to get it moving quickly. S doesn't exhibit the same issue.

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