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General BMW
Use this forum to talk about general BMW news/stories and to chat with fellow enthusiasts about the direction that BMW is going in for their cars and/or motorcycles!

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  #1  
Old 03-09-2004, 08:00 AM
BMWNA BMWNA is offline
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Your Questions Concerning the BMW Concept M5

I’m with BMW of North America, LLC. Here is an update for you on the new concept M5. We hope all of you have taken at look at the pictures of if being introduced in Geneva. What do you think? We are taking this opportunity to give you a heads up on what’s coming your way. As some of you may recall, it has been 20 years since the launch of the first generation BMW M5. After three generations and more than 35,000 M5 vehicles sold, the BMW M5 still maintains its success, delivering high performance and style.

The last generation M5, the E39, was the most successful ever, gathering awards from the most prestigious automotive magazines and kudos from its owners. Long before the end of production of the E39 M5, the engineers at M were working hard to develop its successor. The target was simple - to push the limits of performance and handling even further than the E39 M5.

Last week, the BMW Concept M5 was unveiled at the Geneva Auto Show. This concept car serves as a starting point for the production vehicle, hinting at design cues, technologies and features that could follow in the production model. Carrying on the tradition of the BMW M cars, the new BMW Concept M5 will offer exhilarating performance, driving fun and style wrapped in a discreet, distinctive body design based on the E60 5 Series.

This exciting concept car features:
o A 5.0-liter, V10 naturally aspirated engine producing around 500hp.
o A 7-speed SMG transmission.
o The best power-to-weight ratio in its segment.
o 19’’ wheels and high-performance tires.

We know that your next question will be: “When will the new M5 be on sale in the US?” There is still no confirmed date for the launch of the production E60 M5. Here is a hint, M models are typically introduced two years after the launch of the core model, and the E60 M5 can be expected around this time frame.

We are very excited for this new M5 and are happy to see the great anticipation for it from your side! We’ll keep you posted on new information as soon as it becomes available.

For more information on the BMW Concept M5 unveiling please ask your BMW Center or go to www.bmwusa.com.
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  #2  
Old 03-09-2004, 08:15 AM
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Will the production M5 be available with a manual transmission, in addition to the SMG?

I'm sure I speak for everyone on the board when I say we appreciate your taking the time to start this thread. Can we expect more like it in the future?
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  #3  
Old 03-09-2004, 08:21 AM
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Terry Kennedy Terry Kennedy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vatkens
I’m with BMW of North America, LLC. Here is an update for you on the new concept M5.

[...]

We know that your next question will be: “When will the new M5 be on sale in the US?” There is still no confirmed date for the launch of the production E60 M5. Here is a hint, M models are typically introduced two years after the launch of the core model, and the E60 M5 can be expected around this time frame.

We are very excited for this new M5 and are happy to see the great anticipation for it from your side! We’ll keep you posted on new information as soon as it becomes available.
I would be very interested in an M6. So I hope you'll keep updating us on new releases!
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  #4  
Old 03-09-2004, 09:40 AM
jtg jtg is offline
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will there be a new m roadster as well?
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  #5  
Old 03-09-2004, 09:55 AM
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Desertnate Desertnate is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avalys
Will the production M5 be available with a manual transmission, in addition to the SMG?
Ditto...

Not that I will ever be able to afford one new, but as a potential buyer of a used M5 in the year 2020, I would like to add my voice to the chorus....

Where is the manual tranny??!!

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  #6  
Old 03-09-2004, 10:03 AM
TD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avalys
Will the production M5 be available with a manual transmission, in addition to the SMG?
This is the question that trumps all others.

No stick, no sale.
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  #7  
Old 03-09-2004, 10:06 AM
Alex Baumann Alex Baumann is offline
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No, manual transmission is not an option. This has been acknowledged by people, who have visited the Geneva Motor Show and had the opportunity to talk to the representatives of the M-GmbH.
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  #8  
Old 03-09-2004, 10:10 AM
TD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Baumann
No, manual transmission is not an option. This has been acknowledged by people, who have visited the Geneva Motor Show and had the opportunity to talk to the representatives of the M-GmbH.
Then I'll have to dig up my posted prediction I made years ago (back at the Fly) that BMW was moving to drop the manual tranny in M cars. I do recall being widely ridiculed for this prediction.

And, with respect to this model, I have no interest in playing a video game - I want to drive. No stick, no sale.
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  #9  
Old 03-09-2004, 10:12 AM
Alex Baumann Alex Baumann is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TD
Then I'll have to dig up my posted prediction I made years ago (back at the Fly) that BMW was moving to drop the manual tranny in M cars. I do recall being widely ridiculed for this prediction.
I was really thinking about that post, as I was reading the news.
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  #10  
Old 03-09-2004, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Baumann
No, manual transmission is not an option. This has been acknowledged by people, who have visited the Geneva Motor Show and had the opportunity to talk to the representatives of the M-GmbH.
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  #11  
Old 03-09-2004, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TD
No stick, no sale.
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  #12  
Old 03-09-2004, 10:16 AM
TD
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Unfortunately, at this point, I'm not at all surprised. BMW has lost it's way in so many ways. Just add this to the list.

They are so missing the point and seem to think that specs/stats/technology for technology's sake are now more important than the driving experience itself.
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  #13  
Old 03-09-2004, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TD
This is the question that trumps all others.

No stick, no sale.
I agree that I'd prefer a stick... But by the time I can afford one (if I ever can afford one) I'll take an SMG over not having one at all... There are times when having the choice of allowing the automatic to do the work for you is handy (Doh! I'm getting old! ) Maybe the compromise is an SMG with a clutch pedal? Hmmm... clutch-by-wire.... ( :muses to himself: )
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  #14  
Old 03-09-2004, 10:28 AM
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BMW should change their name to SUCK.
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  #15  
Old 03-09-2004, 10:36 AM
Patrick Patrick is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Baumann
No, manual transmission is not an option. This has been acknowledged by people, who have visited the Geneva Motor Show and had the opportunity to talk to the representatives of the M-GmbH.


And to think that you can buy a 320d with a 6-speed manual ...



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  #16  
Old 03-09-2004, 10:42 AM
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avalys avalys is offline
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So much for that.

I think people can tolerate the aggressive (to put it mildly) styling of new BMWs, along with the onslaught of electronic control and assistive systems, as long as BMW sticks with their mission of producing the Ultimate Driving Machine. It doesn't look like their focus is on that anymore.

Vatkens: do you think there's anything customers can do about persuading BMW to include a manual transmission?

Anyone want to set up a petition? I can host it on my servers, and write the code if need be. I think this is certainly a far more important issue than Bangle.
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  #17  
Old 03-09-2004, 10:43 AM
TD
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Hmph... this is all still sinking in...

So, let me gert this straight... Going forward, the only difference between M cars and AMG cars will be that the AMG cars are much more attractive.

Way to go BMW!
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  #18  
Old 03-09-2004, 10:45 AM
TD
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BTW, Vatkens (and anyone else from BMWNA reading this) we all DO know what SMG is. We're not ignorant. We just also know that, from a DRIVER's perspective, it's not a suitable substitute for a real stick. It may shift faster and more efficiently, but it's not more fun.

Hell, artificial insemination is more efficient than intercourse...

Get the point?
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  #19  
Old 03-09-2004, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TD
Hmph... this is all still sinking in...

So, let me gert this straight... Going forward, the only difference between M cars and AMG cars will be that the AMG cars are much more attractive.

Way to go BMW!


um, no---AMG cars have torque converters and no clutch

M cars will not have torque converters, and will have clutches.
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  #20  
Old 03-09-2004, 10:47 AM
TD
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Originally Posted by atyclb


um, no---AMG cars have torque converters and no clutch

M cars will not have torque converters, and will have clutches.
Who cares?

From my POV, SMG is only a more efficient version of Steptronic. Sure, there's no torque converter and there is a clutch (albeit computer controlled).

From a driver interaction POV, it's the same thing.

And it's not an adequate substitute for the real thing.
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  #21  
Old 03-09-2004, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TD
Who cares?

From my POV, SMG is only a more efficient version of Steptronic. Sure, there's no torque converter and there is a clutch (albeit computer controlled).

From a driver interaction POV, it's the same thing.

And it's not an adequate substitute for the real thing.
for you, no. But to say that from a driver's perspective SMG is not a substitute for a real stick, is overreaching. There are many many DRIVERS who have and truly enjoy SMG.

Resistance is futile...Hell, you're satisfied to drive a car with DBW, it's only a matter of time before SMG is acceptable too.
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  #22  
Old 03-09-2004, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atyclb
for you, no. But to say that from a driver's perspective SMG is not a substitute for a real stick, is overreaching. There are many many DRIVERS who have and truly enjoy SMG.
So, fine, offer it. But don't make it the ONLY alternative.

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  #23  
Old 03-09-2004, 10:57 AM
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Sorry, as much as I like a real MT, if I were in the market for something like a E60M5 (which I'm not because it's so ugly and iDrive is a POS), given that the 7-SMG(III?) would be at least as good, if not better than SMGII, I'd be hard-pressed to take a 6-MT over it.

Unlike a number of people who've never done it, I've actually driven 5MT, 5AT step, 6AT step (briefly) SSG, SMGII and 6MT (the latter 2 both in E46M3s). I HATE conventional automatics, and steptronic has never convinced me otherwise (if anything, it has some specifically awful characteristics). SSG is also a POS; I'd liken it to a Kia-ized version of SMGII, which I rather like. Especially considering all the dumbing/numbing down of conventional MTs these days with fancy flywheels, CDVs and the like that hinder precise and predictable use, I'd rather have less but consitent interaction over more but inconsistent ones.
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  #24  
Old 03-09-2004, 11:07 AM
Alex Baumann Alex Baumann is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atyclb
for you, no. But to say that from a driver's perspective SMG is not a substitute for a real stick, is overreaching. There are many many DRIVERS who have and truly enjoy SMG.
And what about the drivers who would want to enjoy a manual transmission in an M5 ? They have no choice. Totally ignored, IMO.
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  #25  
Old 03-09-2004, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TD
Who cares?

From my POV, SMG is only a more efficient version of Steptronic. Sure, there's no torque converter and there is a clutch (albeit computer controlled).

From a driver interaction POV, it's the same thing.

And it's not an adequate substitute for the real thing.
Have you ever driven SMG? I don't remember you ever having done so.

I do think there should be an option for a standard manual, but I care much more about absolute control of the transmission. SMG offers that. It is a manual without a clutch to worry about, that is attractive.
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