Z435is Reality v. Myths

I would have to disagree with that. GM did an awesome job on the c6 vettes. Both the z06 and the zr1 i drove were both solid and structurally a lot more rigid than the z4. Turn in is extremely sharp and responsive. I also hilt doubt that parking int the hill would cause any misalignment issues. That's just pure BS

Originally Posted by EdCT

That's a function of the structure. The corvette (at least the newest ones) have a space frame made of steel and aluminum - the entire structure of the car is supported by it. The fiberglas body has no structural function, it's purely cosmetic - the panels bolt on.

If you had a late model vette with this level of flimsiness in the structure, I'm truly surprised, almost no modern convertible I know of does this.

Now, when I was a kid in the 70's, if you drove an Alfa, MGB, Triumph etc., those cars were a different story - you could actually see the entire windshield move side to side at pedestrian road speeds - that and you never parked on a curb as the doors wouldn't function properly

Btw, your Z4 will feel more solid than most any convertible on the road because it's engineered to be that way - it's not a matter of steel vs fiberglass, it's the engineering that goes into the structure - you get what you pay for, and a Z4 is much more rigidly built than a Corvette.

Originally Posted by SANguru

I would have to disagree with that. GM did an awesome job on the c6 vettes. Both the z06 and the zr1 i drove were both solid and structurally a lot more rigid than the z4. Turn in is extremely sharp and responsive. I also hilt doubt that parking int the hill would cause any misalignment issues. That's just pure BS

If you go by published numbers, the Z4 is about 50 percent more rigid, and that's the last generation model, the new one is even more-so.

The vette would be a much sharper handler over the new Z4 though, no question about that. To begin with, it's lighter and it's tuned for tighter handling. It has more power, too.

I really think it's an apples vs oranges comparison though, the new Z4 is aimed at a different market than a Corvette, it's softer and more cruise-like.

My 05 z4 was pretty rascally, a wickedly fast on a track handler, it had a ride to match - i.e., it was spine tingling

I found that DSC OFF, Sport+, and keeping the engine revs above 3000 rpm pretty much cures the understeer. Tested here: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...2&z=13&iwloc=A

rigidity goes far beyond just the chassis.

Originally Posted by EdCT

If you go by published numbers, the Z4 is about 50 percent more rigid, and that's the last generation model, the new one is even more-so.

The vette would be a much sharper handler over the new Z4 though, no question about that. To begin with, it's lighter and it's tuned for tighter handling. It has more power, too.

I really think it's an apples vs oranges comparison though, the new Z4 is aimed at a different market than a Corvette, it's softer and more cruise-like.

My 05 z4 was pretty rascally, a wickedly fast on a track handler, it had a ride to match - i.e., it was spine tingling

Originally Posted by SANguru

I would have to disagree with that. GM did an awesome job on the c6 vettes. Both the z06 and the zr1 i drove were both solid and structurally a lot more rigid than the z4. Turn in is extremely sharp and responsive. I also hilt doubt that parking int the hill would cause any misalignment issues. That's just pure BS

Parking at an angle caused the doors on my C6 to misalign. It happened. Get over it. I'd have no reason to make that up!! ...and I don't really care if you think it's BS. I've owned both cars. The Z4 is more rigid than the C6 COUPE, the Z4 feels like the lighter car and is slightly more nimble feeling in corners. It may not have the test numbers to match the C6, but I'm referring to feel, so it's subjective, which is not something that can actually be debated. You are comparing it to a totally different car in the Z06 and ZR1 you test drove.

Originally Posted by BlueZ4AZ

Parking at an angle caused the doors on my C6 to misalign. It happened. Get over it. I'd have no reason to make that up!! ...and I don't really care if you think it's BS. I've owned both cars. The Z4 is more rigid than the C6 COUPE, the Z4 feels like the lighter car and is slightly more nimble feeling in corners. It may not have the test numbers to match the C6, but I'm referring to feel, so it's subjective, which is not something that can actually be debated. You are comparing it to a totally different car in the Z06 and ZR1 you test drove.

can't help the gullible. I do admire your valiant effort in defending your z4 purchase..

Originally Posted by SANguru

can't help the gullible. I do admire your valiant effort in defending your z4 purchase..

LOL. Sorry, as much as you'd like to spin it that way........NOT

Yup. THAT's what it's all about. I'm so into defending every purchase I ever made, that I openly state that I once bought a car whose doors misaligned when I parked on an angle

Nice try though, but it was good for a small chuckle.

Yup, Every C6 owner whose every had a recurring issue is gullable

I don't doubt Blue had an issue with body panels, but I think the salesman was wrong about the cause - it's likely poor quality control was the culprit that allowed the panels to misalign over time - yes, cars take a beating out there on the road, but non-structural parts should be able to withstand all that vibration, temperature extremes and flinging about

Relax you guys, you both have or will be having a great car, the new Z4, I'd love one, but right now I'm looking to drive my E46 cab well into six figures (I'm only up to 32k after 4 and a half years, so I've got a ways to go).

Originally Posted by EdCT

I don't doubt Blue had an issue with body panels, but I think the salesman was wrong about the cause - it's likely poor quality control was the culprit that allowed the panels to misalign over time - yes, cars take a beating out there on the road, but non-structural parts should be able to withstand all that vibration, temperature extremes and flinging about

Relax you guys, you both have or will be having a great car, the new Z4, I'd love one, but right now I'm looking to drive my E46 cab well into six figures (I'm only up to 32k after 4 and a half years, so I've got a ways to go).

What he said

so once again, you completely missed the point. The door panel whether it's made of aluminum or fiberglass has absolutely nothing to do with the structure. Have you thought this through from a engineering perspective, you might have realized that either your door hinge needed adjustment or your electronic latch/lock was misaligned... well looks like not since you can't even figure out how to apply common sense. Keep chuckling

Originally Posted by BlueZ4AZ

LOL. Sorry, as much as you'd like to spin it that way........NOT

Yup. THAT's what it's all about. I'm so into defending every purchase I ever made, that I openly state that I once bought a car whose doors misaligned when I parked on an angle

Nice try though, but it was good for a small chuckle.

Yup, Every C6 owner whose every had a recurring issue is gullable

Originally Posted by SANguru

so once again, you completely missed the point. The door panel whether it's made of aluminum or fiberglass has absolutely nothing to do with the structure. Have you thought this through from a engineering perspective, you might have realized that either your door hinge needed adjustment or your electronic latch/lock was misaligned... well looks like not since you can't even figure out how to apply common sense. Keep chuckling

...and keep on rolling your eyes.

I figured it was pretty obvious that the hinges became misaligned when the car is parked at an angle. The question is: What caused the hinges to misalign only when the car is parked at an angle?
The structure of the car must be flexing when the car is at an angle.

...and wer're right back to the structural integrity of the car, which IS the point.

The service manager at Chevy mentioning fibergalass, was BS, as we know.

Originally Posted by BlueZ4AZ

It's obvious that the hinges became misaligned when the car is parked at an angle. The question is: What caused the hinges to misalign only when the car is parked at an angle?
The structure of the car is flexing when the car is at an angle.

...and wer're right back to the structural integrity of the car, which IS the point.

The service manager at Chevy mentioning fibergalass, was BS, as we know.

My car did not flex at an angle .on a hill ,in a ditch or even upside down , I guess my C6 had good structural integrity. I think the point is pointless now..I'm done

Originally Posted by OZ4

My car did not flex at an angle .on a hill ,in a ditch or even upside down , I guess my C6 had good structural integrity. I think the point is pointless now..I'm done

No surprise. That would have been a huge problem for GM if all C6's had that same issue. I don't think anyone believed that all c6's had that issue.
Wow, you rolled upside down, went thru a ditch and lived to talk about it. Amazing!

Originally Posted by BlueZ4AZ

No surprise. That would have been a huge problem for GM if all C6's had that same issue. I don't think anyone believed that all c6's had that issue.
Wow, you rolled upside down, went thru a ditch and lived to talk about it. Amazing!

Sarcasm Amazing!

Originally Posted by BlueZ4AZ

...and keep on rolling your eyes.

I figured it was pretty obvious that the hinges became misaligned when the car is parked at an angle. The question is: What caused the hinges to misalign only when the car is parked at an angle?
The structure of the car must be flexing when the car is at an angle.

...and wer're right back to the structural integrity of the car, which IS the point.

The service manager at Chevy mentioning fibergalass, was BS, as we know.

a couple bolts... btw.. wasn't the fiberglass your original point or are you now trying to talk your way back out of that???

Originally Posted by BlueZ4AZ

Fiberglass:

Positive - weight savings
Negative - structural rigitidy

Originally Posted by SANguru

a couple bolts... btw.. wasn't the fiberglass your original point or are you now trying to talk your way back out of that???

Bolts!!?? Wow, I never would have guessed. Do keep educating me!!

Nice try, but where there is an effect, there is usually a cause. Parking on an angle caused the structure of the vehicle to bend/flex, which caused the bolts to bend/flex, which ultimately caused the door to temporarily misalign for a short period of time. So, Yeah.....gonna' to stand by my initial claim that My C6 was not as structurally sound as my Z4. Pretty sure I'm not having that issue now. You are giving it a nice try, or shall I say "valiant effort", but you are not going to win the argument you are so hellbent on winning. Move on.

We can blame the idiot service manager for unnecessarily integrating the term fiberglass into the equation.

The c6 was a great car, just not as structurally solid as the e89.

or maybe the bolts or the door hinge were loose to begin with???? the door hinge attaches to the steel frame on the chassis. It's like saying the skin on your arm is causing your arm to not be straight.

once again.. nothing to do with the structure but hey believe what you want to believe and don't let the dry heat get to you over there in Chandler and give you sunburn so you can't stand straight..

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-c...ging-door.html

Originally Posted by BlueZ4AZ

Bolts!!?? Wow, I never would have guessed. Do keep educating me!!

Nice try, but where there is an effect, there is usually a cause. Parking on an angle caused the structure of the vehicle to bend/flex, which caused the bolts to bend/flex, which ultimately caused the door to temporarily misalign for a short period of time. So, Yeah.....gonna' to stand by my initial claim that My C6 was not as structurally sound as my Z4. Pretty sure I'm not having that issue now. You are giving it a nice try, or shall I say "valiant effort", but you are not going to win the argument you are so hellbent on winning. Move on.

We can blame the idiot service manager for unnecessarily integrating the term fiberglass into the equation.

The c6 was a great car, just not as structurally solid as the e89.

SANguri,

Little different issue on the Coevette forum. His problem existed all the tilme. With mine it only existed after the angle of the car parking flexed the structure. Thenn after a day or so the door was back in alignment.

But you know what.....I believe you believe you are correct.

Are you done talking now? Damn, you're annoying.

Originally Posted by BlueZ4AZ

SANguri,

Little different issue on the Coevette forum. His problem existed all the tilme. With mine it only existed after the angle of the car parking flexed the structure. Thenn after a day or so the door was back in alignment.

But you know what.....I believe you believe you are correct.

Are you done talking now? Damn, you're annoying.

thanks for opening your mouth and removing all doubt.

Originally Posted by sanguru

thanks for opening your mouth and removing all doubt.

Oh, stfu already.

Originally Posted by BlueZ4AZ

Oh, stfu already.