DEF with Easy To Use Filler Tube

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl

FYI...IIRC the Urea solution can not be stored indefinitely so do go out buy gallons and gallons of the stuff. It's not like motor oil.

What container can we store it in? Will the yellow diesel 5 gallon jugs be ok?

I can find plenty of sources that say this stuff has a defined shelf life. I'd personally not be storing it indefinitely. Not like it is hard to find for cheap prices when it is needed. If it were hard to find and expensive to get when in a bind then I would be storing some since I doubt the shelf life issue would ever hit me.

Originally Posted by rmorin49

I was able to remove the complete cap assembly from the 1/2 gallon bottle so it can be refilled. You have to twist it very hard as it is one of the caps that clicks to lock it in place but it can be removed. I am going to the Pilot Truck stop in about an hour to buy some bulk DEF. I'll update this post when I get home but I was quoted $2.59/gallon over the phone, no minimum and no maximum purchase required. She said they go through over 1000 gallons a week so it should be "fresh stuff". Apparently the new big rigs have DEF tanks that hold 50 - 100 gallons.

I drilled a hole in the bottle hust a bit smaller than the threads on the cap. Now I fill it from the bottow and screw the cap back on.

DEF warning came on tonight with 19, 045 miles. (1st time!)

This was only 5,000 miles since the first scheduled maintenance. At this 1st maintenance, BMW's SA informed me that they filled 'both tanks'.

Now I'm starting to wonder what they really did since I cannot confirm the fact they filled 'both tanks'. Also, from 0 miles to 14,000 miles, the DEF warning never illuminated.

Can the transfer mechanism between the passive and active not be working properly? I live in New England (cold weather lately) so I wonder if this may be the case?

So, tonight I bought a 1/2 gallon DEF refill from a local VW dealer.

I can't understand how I can deplete the active (1.5gal?) and passive (4.5 gal?) in only 5,000 miles

Since it's a pain to bring the car to the dealer, I'm thinking of completing the following to determine what is going on with my D:
1.) Buy additional DEF (~5gals) at a local AutoParts store
2.) First, attempt to fill the passive tank. If tank is indeed "dry", it should take a total of ~4.5 gallons. If not "dry", then the transfer system is inoperative. (would putting some heat to the passive tank help?)
3.) If passive tank fills, then active tank should take ~1.5 gallons

I haven't attempted the above, any comments? Can the VW nozzle fit in both the active and passive fill-ports?

Or should I just head to BMW and hear what they have to say......or not say?

I'd drop the car off with BMW and tell them to fix it. Because the way I see it one of these is or has happened:
1. They are idiots and did not top off both tanks at your last service.
2. The transfer pump is failing or clogged.
3. You have a leak in the system
4. Something is wrong with the car and it is injecting way too much of the DEF

Bottom line, you are under warranty and should not have to be dicking with this.

Bottom line, you are under warranty and should not have to be dicking with this

100% agree........perhaps bringing it in is the best course of action.

Wonder if they would let me watch the filling/investigation process and ask the mechanic questions as he works on my car? Will they say it's an insurance liability concern?

From my previous experience, the SA assigned at my 1st service provided answers I expected to hear, without verification of facts.

As a customer, perhaps I expect too much.......

Hey Folks,
I have an 09 335d with 125,000 miles. Never have run short of Def between service intervals.
This has been the best car, plan to hold on to for a long time

Originally Posted by GangweDM

Hey Folks,
I have an 09 335d with 125,000 miles. Never have run short of Def between service intervals.
This has been the best car, plan to hold on to for a long time

Interested in your experience so far. Did you buy it brand new? any repairs so far? if so what kinds? Did you get extended warranty? and what is your current maintenance schedule include apart from what car calls out for?
I am looking to keep my d for long time (till it lives) but with no certain future abt BMW diesels and lack of indy mechs scares me.

Originally Posted by bimmerdiesel

Interested in your experience so far. Did you buy it brand new? any repairs so far? if so what kinds? Did you get extended warranty? and what is your current maintenance schedule include apart from what car calls out for?
I am looking to keep my d for long time (till it lives) but with no certain future abt BMW diesels and lack of indy mechs scares me.

I'd be intersted in the response too.I must say that 125K in about 3 years is pretty impressive.Assuming they're highway miles (125K of "stop & go"??) it seems possible that doing all the maintenence required might be good enough to ensure reasonably trouble free driving.

I did purchase the car new. It has run like a dream, no problems except for 3 burned out tail lights. I have a large territory and 90% of these miles are highway miles. I did have the extended warranty. I have followed the service interval exactly. The first real money I have spent is for my rear brakes----new rotors, pads. The absolute best MPG I have gotten was from Jacksonville, Fl back to my home in Lakeland (about 200 miles) was 45.5 @ 70 mph. I have no complaints, I am however very persistent at the dealer about filling the DEF tanks completely, but as I have said I've never had a low def light come on.

The only real issue is with 125,000 miles I have my share of chips, and the windshield is getting pitted. New paint may be in order in the near future

Cheers

D

Originally Posted by GangweDM

3 burned out tail lights.

I had one go out back in May of last year and just recently bothered to get it replaced. Were they individual occurrences or a couple together? The guy at the dealership claimed that sometimes if one goes out that both sides have to be replaced.

Originally Posted by GangweDM

Hey Folks,
I have an 09 335d with 125,000 miles. Never have run short of Def between service intervals.
This has been the best car, plan to hold on to for a long time

This is encouraging as I have been a bit concerned about the long term reliability of the 335d. If I keep my car beyond 50K miles, I will probably take my chances and forgo an extended warranty. Who else has more than 75K miles on their d?

Chris had around that many miles when he disappeared from the forums. I do not recall him having really any issues with the car.

Just turned 60,000 miles on the odo. Not had any problems except a reflash when I first bought it new back in June of 2010. Has anyone had any luck refilling the active AND passive tank by themselves. I am about to do my own oil change and DEF refill for the first time since free service went out the window. Am wondering whether I just need to add DEF to the active tank every couple thousand miles and never worry about filling the passive tank or is there a way for the consumer to fill both tanks and only fill DEF on the 10,000 mile oil change interval.

I'm a bit confused. I thought the active tank stayed full all the time or at least until you are about to run completely out of DEF. I have topped off the passive tank one time just to see if I could do it and it was no problem using the small DEF bottle that I purchased from a VW dealer. Doesn't the passive tank refill the active tank as it is needed?

Originally Posted by rmorin49

I'm a bit confused. I thought the active tank stayed full all the time or at least until you are about to run completely out of DEF. I have topped off the passive tank one time just to see if I could do it and it was no problem using the small DEF bottle that I purchased from a VW dealer. Doesn't the passive tank refill the active tank as it is needed?

Yes the active tank refills, but in batches, is not always completely full. Active hits a low level sensor, pump goes on and transfers DEF from passive to active. I believe the theory is to have enough DEF for 13K miles, you need to have both tanks completely full. If you only fill the passive, the active could be near (but not at) the low level point and take another gallon or so. I know when they went to refill mine at the oil change, they brought out two 2.5 gallon jugs.

Just so I know the flow of the DEF system.... the lower inlet feeds into the passive tank which then pumps DEF fluid into the active tank as needed? That would imply that there are two sensors... one to trigger the pump to pull fluid from the passive to the active tank, the other triggers the 1000 mile count down. Just from discussions I have read on this forum, it sounds like people are putting in smaller amounts in (.5-1 gallon) at a time which made me think they are filling the smaller active tank. Sorry for any confusion but I am just trying to understand how the system operates from a flow perspective. When I service it this weekend, I'm sure it will become evident (if I can only put in a gallon it is filling the active tank, if I can put in 6 gallons it is filling the passive tank and then pumping it into the active tank. Anyone on the forum have a system diagram or service dialogue on the subject?

The lower fill port (with the label) fills the active tank.

It's a big file so I can't attach it here, but google "ST810 - Advanced Diesel" and you should find a 119 page .PDF describing the system...go to page 84/85 for a description of the system.

Cheers
D.

Originally Posted by DnA Diesel

The lower fill port (with the label) fills the active tank.

It's a big file so I can't attach it here, but google "ST810 - Advanced Diesel" and you should find a 119 page .PDF describing the system...go to page 84/85 for a description of the system.

Cheers
D.

Thanks for the link DnA (wondering if we are in the same industry based on our login names)
It looks as though the lower port is the active tank and the upper port is the passive tank. So why is everyone filling the lower port? Why not fill the passive tank from the upper port? I seem to recall that the dealer fills the lower port also and reverses the transfer pump to fill the passive tank from the active. I am guessing that only the dealer is able to reverse the transfer pump. Is there some reason not to fill the passive tank directly from the upper port?
I read through the entire emission section of the article and could not find answers. Hmmm

dnaer, a family member is in the business, but I'm in aerospace. Whether fruit flies have red, orange or white eyes, I just want them to stop flying around my kitchen in the summer time.

Re: the passive tank, I don't think you can fill it directly from the upper port...that is to say I think the upper port does not go into the passive tank directly, but feeds to the transfer pump, where the reversed mode the dealers use will feed back into the passive tank. I think the active tank is the only one which will gravity feed. Perhaps if the fill bottle is raised high enough to produce significant head pressure, it could back feed through the upper port and through the transfer pump body into the passive tank even if the pump is not operating (in the reversed mode)?

Cheers
D.

My dealer filled both tanks (ports) when brought in for the oil change.

Originally Posted by dnaer

Thanks for the link DnA (wondering if we are in the same industry based on our login names)

You guys are in the clothing industry? When I ski, I wear a DNA coat: Descente North America.

Originally Posted by floydarogers

You guys are in the clothing industry? When I ski, I wear a DNA coat: Descente North America.

I thought people from the Pacific NW eat granola, drive Subaru's and only wear Patagonia/NorthFace. You must not be a local

Originally Posted by dnaer

I thought people from the Pacific NW eat granola, drive Subaru's and only wear Patagonia/NorthFace. You must not be a local

I bought 2.5 Gal (one container) of DEF from Walmart. The Low DEF warning had just come on at approx. 21,300 miles. I bought this car at 17K on the odo, was a dealer demo. Previous oil change by dealer was at approx. 12,500. No record of how much DEF was installed at that time. So the car went about 8,800 miles before the warning illuminated. I topped off the active tank, and put the remainder of the 2.5 gal in the passive tank. That was 4K miles ago, and low DEF warning has not returned. It is due for an oil change by the dealer (did one in between on my own). I will note how much DEF is installed at the dealer service.

Anyone have a guess at how much DEF is in the tanks when the low DEF warning light illuminates? I know it will vary based on driving style, but just curious if anyone has a ballpark figure.