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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #76  
Old 07-11-2011, 12:04 PM
Nobrandfanboy Nobrandfanboy is offline
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Originally Posted by leanofpeak View Post
I am new here so hello. Nice to meet you all. I have been lurking here for months enjoying every minute of it. I've decided to finally chime in because I am ready to pick up a 2011 or 2012 550i or 535d*

Highyo speaks the truth. Don't know why so many of you try to argue with him. futile it is.

I am happy the F10 is bigger, heavier, more luxurious, as compared to the 5ers of the past. I had a E39 M5, loved it. Didnt care much for the E60 so I passed.

since selling my M5 I have been relying on a 2008 chevy diesel crew cab short bed for daily commute and kid duty. It's the safest kid mover ever, period. With all these moms in their GL's and x5's running around here in the bay area you'll want to be in a lifted heavy duty truck when you get t-boned or rear ended at some intersection or on 101.

And no, being in an agile M3 will not help you avoid the crash. Human factors plays most of the role in why accidents happen of which most are unavoidable.

So heavier is better. Design important, but it takes back seat to MASS moving at high velocity.

As far as fun factor goes, get over it it is a sedan. I am not expecting wonders in that department. If you want to turn fast buy a sports car.

I don't want my second post to be a rant. To get on with it I think BMW knows exactly what they are doing and built a car for the market they targeted. Guys like me, 42, kids, safe and comfortable with some sport but not too much. Why all the fuss over having to bang turns in your 4 door? Just eats tires and brakes. These things are built to go straight very fast for very long periods of time in comfort. The F10 does all of those nicely. And it'll turn too, if you want it to. It'll even rotate...
I guess BMW had you in mind when they built this vehicle. This is what I was saying in earlier posts that they are marketing this 5er to the demographics of an aging population.
I don't think owners or people who have test driven this car HATE it but just that it is not as sporty as past BMW 5ers. BMW is known for handling and steering feedback in the luxury sedans so when this latest iteration somewhat parts from that moto there is bound to be some upset customers. Just because it is a 4 dour sedan doesn't mean it can't be sporty at the same time as Porsche does it with the Panamera and past iterations where plenty sporty. I thiink BMW just built this car based on demographics and the China effect.
By saying "Guys like me, 42, kids, safe and comfortable with some sport but not too much. Why all the fuss over having to bang turns in your 4 door? Just eats tires and brakes. These things are built to go straight very fast for very long periods of time in comfort." this you realy don't get the idea that BMW is supposed to be the ULTIMATE DRIVING EXPERIENCE not the ULTIMATE CRUISING EXPERIENCE. You could have bought a Lexus if you wanted that.
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  #77  
Old 07-11-2011, 12:21 PM
nealh nealh is offline
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Originally Posted by Nobrandfanboy View Post
I guess BMW had you in mind when they built this vehicle. This is what I was saying in earlier posts that they are marketing this 5er to the demographics of an aging population.
I don't think owners or people who have test driven this car HATE it but just that it is not as sporty as past BMW 5ers. BMW is known for handling and steering feedback in the luxury sedans so when this latest iteration somewhat parts from that moto there is bound to be some upset customers. Just because it is a 4 dour sedan doesn't mean it can't be sporty at the same time as Porsche does it with the Panamera and past iterations where plenty sporty. I thiink BMW just built this car based on demographics and the China effect.
By saying "Guys like me, 42, kids, safe and comfortable with some sport but not too much. Why all the fuss over having to bang turns in your 4 door? Just eats tires and brakes. These things are built to go straight very fast for very long periods of time in comfort." this you realy don't get the idea that BMW is supposed to be the ULTIMATE DRIVING EXPERIENCE not the ULTIMATE CRUISING EXPERIENCE. You could have bought a Lexus if you wanted that.
I just dont agree. I have been driving my e39 non sport 530i for the last 6 months. I just did my ED with 535i. I just dont get what people are bitching about.

The F10 is much more refined but I just cant see how the handling is that far from my e39. There will be some changes as the model is different.

Everyone raves on the e39 and I love it but F10 at least with my option list which includes the DHP w/no active steering, I am not sure the difference is that great. I felt the feedback and road feel where fine on the european roads. I drove it for1000 miles and when I got back in my e39, I did not say OMFG this handles so much better.

I just cant tell the difference, I am sorry. The normal and sport(esp) felt tight and I had the feedback and confidence with car. No different than my e39.

The F10 offers so much more plus great handling.
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  #78  
Old 07-11-2011, 12:34 PM
solstice solstice is offline
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Originally Posted by nealh View Post
I just dont agree. I have been driving my e39 non sport 530i for the last 6 months. I just did my ED with 535i. I just dont get what people are bitching about.

The F10 is much more refined but I just cant see how the handling is that far from my e39. There will be some changes as the model is different.

Everyone raves on the e39 and I love it but F10 at least with my option list which includes the DHP w/no active steering, I am not sure the difference is that great. I felt the feedback and road feel where fine on the european roads. I drove it for1000 miles and when I got back in my e39, I did not say OMFG this handles so much better.

I just cant tell the difference, I am sorry. The normal and sport(esp) felt tight and I had the feedback and confidence with car. No different than my e39.

The F10 offers so much more plus great handling.
And that's fine, some of us will feel a lot of difference some just a little and there is some that feel no difference at all. But the fact that some of us feel a huge difference when swapping between an E60 and an F10 makes it something to be aware of for people considering the F10, i.e be sure to test it out becuse it can not be taken for granted that this new 5 will live up to your expectations in terms of sporty feel like the E39 and E60 did.
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  #79  
Old 07-11-2011, 12:42 PM
Nobrandfanboy Nobrandfanboy is offline
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Originally Posted by nealh View Post
I just dont agree. I have been driving my e39 non sport 530i for the last 6 months. I just did my ED with 535i. I just dont get what people are bitching about.

The F10 is much more refined but I just cant see how the handling is that far from my e39. There will be some changes as the model is different.

Everyone raves on the e39 and I love it but F10 at least with my option list which includes the DHP w/no active steering, I am not sure the difference is that great. I felt the feedback and road feel where fine on the european roads. I drove it for1000 miles and when I got back in my e39, I did not say OMFG this handles so much better.

I just cant tell the difference, I am sorry. The normal and sport(esp) felt tight and I had the feedback and confidence with car. No different than my e39.

The F10 offers so much more plus great handling.
I don't think people are saying that the e39 is better than this car when compared driving back to back. What people are saying or atleast I am is that the e39 when compared to the competition was way sportier handling and performance wise. Basically there was no competition. The A6 and E-class was not even close in terms of handling/performance. Fast forward to current and the F10 has took a step backwards in the handling/performance area when compared to the competition. It no longer is superior as some reviews have indicated in this area. Basically BMW is making this car more for the masses than the enthusiasts. No doubt it is more luxurious and refined but it definitely is not as sporty as the E60 and when compared to the competition it didn't blow them out of the waters like the E39. What people are saying is that they want the steering to feel like the old 5er and performance/handling to blow the competition out of the waters as this was traditionally the case with previous 5 serires cars.
Really nothing to argue about when even the F10 owners who are pro F10 admit that it is a less performance oriented car. Seriously if you got back into your e39 and said OMG than BMW would be in real trouble as the e39 was produced first in 1995.
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  #80  
Old 07-11-2011, 02:13 PM
nealh nealh is offline
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Originally Posted by Nobrandfanboy View Post
I don't think people are saying that the e39 is better than this car when compared driving back to back. What people are saying or atleast I am is that the e39 when compared to the competition was way sportier handling and performance wise. Basically there was no competition. The A6 and E-class was not even close in terms of handling/performance. Fast forward to current and the F10 has took a step backwards in the handling/performance area when compared to the competition. It no longer is superior as some reviews have indicated in this area. Basically BMW is making this car more for the masses than the enthusiasts. No doubt it is more luxurious and refined but it definitely is not as sporty as the E60 and when compared to the competition it didn't blow them out of the waters like the E39. What people are saying is that they want the steering to feel like the old 5er and performance/handling to blow the competition out of the waters as this was traditionally the case with previous 5 serires cars.
Really nothing to argue about when even the F10 owners who are pro F10 admit that it is a less performance oriented car. Seriously if you got back into your e39 and said OMG than BMW would be in real trouble as the e39 was produced first in 1995.
My point was everyone uses the e39 as the bench. do you remember how bad the e60 was when compared to e39. I remember the complaints as I just got my 03 530i.

I had a 650 prior to the F10, I have been driving the e39 has a hold over.

I feel both cars I great in their own right. I am not surprised the competition is catching up: technology between brands is narrowing alot. You are not going to see the huge difference anymore in comparison to Audi/MB. It is easier for them to catch up than for BMW to stay that far ahead now.

Does anyone else offer a manual in these cars? BMW still caters to drivers with this.
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  #81  
Old 07-11-2011, 03:12 PM
solstice solstice is offline
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My point was everyone uses the e39 as the bench. do you remember how bad the e60 was when compared to e39. I remember the complaints as I just got my 03 530i.

I had a 650 prior to the F10, I have been driving the e39 has a hold over.

I feel both cars I great in their own right. I am not surprised the competition is catching up: technology between brands is narrowing alot. You are not going to see the huge difference anymore in comparison to Audi/MB. It is easier for them to catch up than for BMW to stay that far ahead now.

Does anyone else offer a manual in these cars? BMW still caters to drivers with this.
As I remember it the E60 was universally praised for it's driving dynamics from the start. The moaning was about how ugly it was and how awful the I drive and active steering were.

I also disagree that it's any harder for BMW to stay ahead with their traditional strengths since the E60 still blows the socks of any new competitor. They have not caught up much it's BMW that has changed the mission of the 5. Bmw still have the competence to stay way ahead in driving dynamics if the choose to.

Last edited by solstice; 07-11-2011 at 03:14 PM.
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  #82  
Old 07-11-2011, 04:01 PM
nealh nealh is offline
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As I remember it the E60 was universally praised for it's driving dynamics from the start. The moaning was about how ugly it was and how awful the I drive and active steering were.

I also disagree that it's any harder for BMW to stay ahead with their traditional strengths since the E60 still blows the socks of any new competitor. They have not caught up much it's BMW that has changed the mission of the 5. Bmw still have the competence to stay way ahead in driving dynamics if the choose to.
Nope everything was railed on the e60. I bought my e39 in July 2003. So I watched the hating on the e60 with praise reaped on the e39.

I will agree to disagree with you. I know you had a very bad experience with the F10.
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  #83  
Old 07-11-2011, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by nealh View Post
I will agree to disagree with you. I know you had a very bad experience with the F10.
+1. I just had an unusually fun ride home in my F10 BASE suspension 535i. There is usually so much traffic on my 34-mile ride I rarely have space to really push it. Today was weird, like Saturday afternoon traffic -- no real slowdowns. I pushed it to 85 a couple times, and while not driving dangerously, did manage to zip around a couple of slow movers. They're also doing a lot of work on the beltway in Virginia on my way to Maryland, lots of curves where lanes are shifted back and forth. As I've commented since I got the F10, and recently in this or another thread, my F10 handles basically as well as my '08 non-sport 335i, which is to say, very good. It has a planted feel, no wallowing, takes curves at speed with ease. It's truly amazing given its larger size and heft over the 3, but honestly, it's a blast.

My gut feel tells me a lot of people dissing the F10 are still those who basically never drove one, maybe took it out for a 10 minute test drive. I think the shock of the lighter steering completely overwhelms them and they just lose focus. The F10 rocks.
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  #84  
Old 07-11-2011, 04:36 PM
nealh nealh is offline
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+1. I just had an unusually fun ride home in my F10 BASE suspension 535i. There is usually so much traffic on my 34-mile ride I rarely have space to really push it. Today was weird, like Saturday afternoon traffic -- no real slowdowns. I pushed it to 85 a couple times, and while not driving dangerously, did manage to zip around a couple of slow movers. They're also doing a lot of work on the beltway in Virginia on my way to Maryland, lots of curves where lanes are shifted back and forth. As I've commented since I got the F10, and recently in this or another thread, my F10 handles basically as well as my '08 non-sport 335i, which is to say, very good. It has a planted feel, no wallowing, takes curves at speed with ease. It's truly amazing given its larger size and heft over the 3, but honestly, it's a blast.

My gut feel tells me a lot of people dissing the F10 are still those who basically never drove one, maybe took it out for a 10 minute test drive. I think the shock of the lighter steering completely overwhelms them and they just lose focus. The F10 rocks.
Funny you comment on the lighter steering, I was thinking how it did not seem that much lighter than e39. At least not how I expected after all the complaining. It was easier to turn which provided less fatigue but the sport settings got rid of light feel completely, IMHO.
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  #85  
Old 07-11-2011, 04:44 PM
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geo3515 geo3515 is offline
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Originally Posted by markl53 View Post
+1. I just had an unusually fun ride home in my F10 BASE suspension 535i. There is usually so much traffic on my 34-mile ride I rarely have space to really push it. Today was weird, like Saturday afternoon traffic -- no real slowdowns. I pushed it to 85 a couple times, and while not driving dangerously, did manage to zip around a couple of slow movers. They're also doing a lot of work on the beltway in Virginia on my way to Maryland, lots of curves where lanes are shifted back and forth. As I've commented since I got the F10, and recently in this or another thread, my F10 handles basically as well as my '08 non-sport 335i, which is to say, very good. It has a planted feel, no wallowing, takes curves at speed with ease. It's truly amazing given its larger size and heft over the 3, but honestly, it's a blast.

My gut feel tells me a lot of people dissing the F10 are still those who basically never drove one, maybe took it out for a 10 minute test drive. I think the shock of the lighter steering completely overwhelms them and they just lose focus. The F10 rocks.
I agree with you. The lighter steering feel at slow speed maneuvring did not feel as BMW originally but I got used to it. Other than that, my F10 in "Sport" or "Sport+" mode handles as well as my 2008 550i M Sport.
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  #86  
Old 07-11-2011, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by geo3515 View Post
I agree with you. The lighter steering feel at slow speed maneuvring did not feel as BMW originally but I got used to it. Other than that, my F10 in "Sport" or "Sport+" mode handles as well as my 2008 550i M Sport.
Yes, and to Nealh, I meant the lightness of the steering at low speed. Even my non-DHP 535i steering tightens up considerably at speed.
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  #87  
Old 07-12-2011, 12:51 AM
leanofpeak leanofpeak is offline
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Originally Posted by Nobrandfanboy View Post
this you realy don't get the idea that BMW is supposed to be the ULTIMATE DRIVING EXPERIENCE not the ULTIMATE CRUISING EXPERIENCE. You could have bought a Lexus if you wanted that.
Ive been vacationing in Germany for the past two weeks.

Been doing a fair amount of traveling on the autobahn. ive noticed that there are no lexus's here, i am sure there are some, but not many.

they are definitely not to be found cruising at 130mph in the fast lane. its all bmw's, mercedes, and porsches.

ultimate driving experience/machine? hardly. a slogan ive never taken seriously. that title belongs to porsche.

Last edited by leanofpeak; 07-12-2011 at 12:59 AM.
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  #88  
Old 07-12-2011, 01:07 AM
leanofpeak leanofpeak is offline
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Originally Posted by geo3515 View Post
I agree with you. The lighter steering feel at slow speed maneuvring did not feel as BMW originally but I got used to it. Other than that, my F10 in "Sport" or "Sport+" mode handles as well as my 2008 550i M Sport.
I test drove a panamera the other day. it too has super light steering at slow speed...servotronic.

it feels weird and not right but is part of the new equation of slow speed driving...ie thru parking lots.

i didnt like it but could appreciate it and would easily get used to it.
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  #89  
Old 07-12-2011, 04:06 AM
nealh nealh is offline
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Originally Posted by geo3515 View Post
I agree with you. The lighter steering feel at slow speed maneuvring did not feel as BMW originally but I got used to it. Other than that, my F10 in "Sport" or "Sport+" mode handles as well as my 2008 550i M Sport.
At slow speed the light steering is a feature of AS option? AS makes turning radius tighter as well
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  #90  
Old 07-12-2011, 05:26 AM
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geo3515 geo3515 is offline
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At slow speed the light steering is a feature of AS option? AS makes turning radius tighter as well
No, I do not have active steering. This option is not available with xDrive.
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  #91  
Old 07-12-2011, 05:53 AM
nealh nealh is offline
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No, I do not have active steering. This option is not available with xDrive.
No I understand but they seem to be making the lower speed steering more like AS. Sorry for confusion.
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Last edited by nealh; 07-12-2011 at 09:20 AM. Reason: jeez, I have no idea how that came out so screwed up
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  #92  
Old 07-12-2011, 06:19 AM
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geo3515 geo3515 is offline
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No I understand but they seem to be making the load speed lighter steering more like AS. Sorry for confusion.
Agree. The steering is definitely firms up as speed increases.
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