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E90/E92/E93 M3 (2008 - 2014)
4th generation E90 M3 sedan, E92 M3 coupe and E93 M3 convertible. The last of the naturally aspirated M3s, powered by a 4.0 liter V8 making 414hp and 295 lb-ft of torque.

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  #1  
Old 06-28-2011, 09:23 PM
16n69 16n69 is offline
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Arrow 2011 Lexus IS-F or M3

OK...did some time over at the Lexus IS-F forum...to see if they could be objective...
...they, for the most part, had a lot of respect for the E9x M3, but ultimately felt that the IS-F
now equaled it in performance as described in the C&D Feb. 2011 article "Lightening Lap".

Also,since "long-term reliability is a huge factor for me (10 yrs. +)...they advised to get the IS-F as Lexus "hands down" has BMW beat for LONG TERM reliability. Far less electronic issues and much better service & customer support???
Said Toyota/Lexus has built brand on this fact and no BMW can compete in that area?
Most beleive BMW stand for Bring More Worry...especially after warranty and that the Lexus is virtually worry free dependability, long term, past warranty?

IT IS/WAS THE 2011 IS-F, I was 'comparing"....NOT any other YEAR ( they sucked!)

Last edited by 16n69; 06-30-2011 at 10:45 AM.
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Old 06-28-2011, 09:25 PM
16n69 16n69 is offline
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Question Lexus IS-F or M3

OK...did some time over at the Lexus IS-F forum...to see if they could be objective...
...they, for the most part, had a lot of respect for the E9x M3, but ultimately felt that the IS-F
now equaled it in performance as described in the C&D Feb. 2011 article "Lightening Lap".

Also,since "long-term reliability is a huge factor for me (10 yrs. +)...they advised to get the IS-F as Lexus "hands down" has BMW beat for LONG TERM reliability. Far less electronic issues and much better service & customer support???
Said Toyota/Lexus has built brand on this fact and no BMW can compete in that area?
Most beleive BMW stand for Bring More Worry...especially after warranty and that the Lexus is virtually worry free dependability, long term, past warranty?
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Old 06-28-2011, 10:37 PM
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Old 06-29-2011, 02:40 AM
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Very personal Choice...

I can't disagree with the reputation (bar the recall) that Toyota has. I'm guessing that the ISF is probably seen less than the M3 in affluent areas.

Lots of Pros and Cons. Given the reliability, me personally....I'd have to agree with "SD 335is". I probably still go with the M3, if for any reason just the badge alone. But I'm a badge-whore, so why should my opinion even matter ?
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Old 06-29-2011, 02:48 AM
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Originally Posted by jocamryn View Post
Very personal Choice...

I can't disagree with the reputation (bar the recall) that Toyota has. I'm guessing that the ISF is probably seen less than the M3 in affluent areas.

Lots of Pros and Cons. Given the reliability, me personally....I'd have to agree with "SD 335is". I probably still go with the M3, if for any reason just the badge alone. But I'm a badge-whore, so why should my opinion even matter ?
Off topic... What happened to your x6? Just curious.
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Old 06-29-2011, 03:00 AM
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Retire in 23 months...going to wait till I gety settled, into my new job/house before I take on a new financial obligation...We'll be 'empty nesters' as well, so I may be able to 'up my game' on what vehicles I'm looking for...this upcoming Gran Coupe REALLY interests me.
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Last edited by FCBayernFTW; 06-29-2011 at 03:03 AM.
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Old 06-29-2011, 03:11 AM
ebarona61 ebarona61 is offline
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My personal choice would be the m3 hands down! The car speaks for itself. German engineering is the best. Plus, am just not willing to spend all that money on a Japanese car unless am importing a skyline. The m3 will hold a higher value for much longer than that darn is-f.
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Old 06-29-2011, 03:24 AM
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Retire in 23 months...going to wait till I gety settled, into my new job/house before I take on a new financial obligation...We'll be 'empty nesters' as well, so I may be able to 'up my game' on what vehicles I'm looking for...this upcoming Gran Coupe REALLY interests me.
Why not wait for the gran coupe? Just from other posts you've made that is the one you really want I can tell
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Old 06-29-2011, 03:33 AM
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Why not wait for the gran coupe? Just from other posts you've made that is the one you really want I can tell
Timing may be perfect...Don't worry, I'll keep everyone posted...

Good point about value after 3 years...
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Old 06-29-2011, 03:34 AM
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Originally Posted by 16n69 View Post
OK...did some time over at the Lexus IS-F forum...to see if they could be objective...
...they, for the most part, had a lot of respect for the E9x M3, but ultimately felt that the IS-F
now equaled it in performance as described in the C&D Feb. 2011 article "Lightening Lap".

Also,since "long-term reliability is a huge factor for me (10 yrs. +)...they advised to get the IS-F as Lexus "hands down" has BMW beat for LONG TERM reliability. Far less electronic issues and much better service & customer support???
Said Toyota/Lexus has built brand on this fact and no BMW can compete in that area?
Most beleive BMW stand for Bring More Worry...especially after warranty and that the Lexus is virtually worry free dependability, long term, past warranty?
Couple things, to me those lightning laps serve no reason for me to chose one car over another. I have my reservations about their results anyway.

Just because Toyota and Lexus have great reliability reputations overall does mean a particular car might not have issues. There is off course a difference in the super mass produced camrys and low volume performance. I'm not saying the ISF isn't reliable just don't assume it has the reliability and durability of the tried and tested cars in the line.

From a performance standpoint the are probably pretty even as far as day to day driving. Do you track or attend HPDEs?
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Old 06-29-2011, 04:08 AM
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Its the M3 for me.
Completely different cars regardless of lap times.
If reliability is #1 concern then go ISF or better yet, Corolla.
If the driving experience is of primary interest. Experience M3.
It will not dissapoint.
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Old 06-29-2011, 04:50 AM
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The IS-F felt like driving a nice, quick 22ft Bayliner. Comfortable, reasonably fast and overly insulated but still grippy handling.

Comparatively, the M3 is a monster. The only comparison is on data sheets and cost.
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Old 06-29-2011, 05:22 AM
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You should get the Toyota if reliability is your primary concern. I'll take the M3 every time.
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Old 06-29-2011, 05:52 AM
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I can understand concerns about reliability, resale value etc., but it ultimately comes down to which vehicle you are going to be most happy getting into and driving every day. Take them both for a test drive, back to back, and see which one you like better. Some dealers will even let you take an extended test drive and keep the car overnight.
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Old 06-29-2011, 06:11 AM
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I would drive each one and decide what one you would want to drive every day. Pure driving enjoyment can sometimes outweigh reliability. I don't have any experience with Lexus but feel it will pale in comparison to a BMW.
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Old 06-29-2011, 06:18 AM
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On the street, or until you are an accomplished driver on the track, there will be no difference in performance, although the IS-F I believe has more torque at the low end, so it will feel faster when you take off.

The IS-F has a much harsher ride than an M3, although I am not sure if it is adjustable in an IS-F. The M3 requires the tech package with EDC.

The Lexus is better equiped for the money, and a slightly smaller cabin. I don't think there is an MT IS-F either.

Just to throw something in there. I saw a Boss 302 this past couple of days at NJMP and it sounds absolutely fantastic when opened up!
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Old 06-29-2011, 06:26 AM
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On the street, or until you are an accomplished driver on the track, there will be no difference in performance, although the IS-F I believe has more torque at the low end, so it will feel faster when you take off.

The IS-F has a much harsher ride than an M3, although I am not sure if it is adjustable in an IS-F. The M3 requires the tech package with EDC.

The Lexus is better equiped for the money, and a slightly smaller cabin. I don't think there is an MT IS-F either.

Just to throw something in there. I saw a Boss 302 this past couple of days at NJMP and it sounds absolutely fantastic when opened up!
Agree on the IS-F suspension. We just went through this comparison a few months ago and the M3 was the winner on several fronts with the exception of the wheels, paint, interior materials and the brakes. The IS-F lost for the faux exhaust tips, lack of tranny choices, outrageously expensive options (most dealers have ALL the options) and the suspension, it's way too harsh for all but the smoothest, newly-paved yesterday roads.
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Old 06-29-2011, 06:26 AM
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Old 06-29-2011, 06:34 AM
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Old 06-29-2011, 06:50 AM
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You do realize where you are right ? Im so tempted to tell you " m3 /thread" but that would be a highly biased answer to your question I have friends with the M3, and there really is no comparison. Yes both the bimmer and IS-F are in the same car class, and with that comes identical power numbers and proportionate technological equipment. The M3 just has that WOW factor . In other words it feels as if you [the driver] are connected with the car spiritually and that adds to the "ultimate driving experience". In addition to the beauty of the car and it's marvelous powertrain you have two very practical choices. The E90 for a family and the E92 for just the parents .

In additon any car with new technologies [basically all new cars made today with SAT Nav and all those fancy gismos] compromise their own long term reliability. The electronic systems in them are efficent and helpful, but make repairs and long term reliability both potentially expensive and bound to failure. No car is perfect. As for the reliabiliy, when you aquire a car like the M3, don't expect to change the oil at the same intervals as you did with your e34 525i. With the right level of maintainence , research and overall knowledge of the "weak spots" you can "beat them to the punch" by replacing parts before it turns into a huge issue or stay on top of things. If you know you need an oil change at 5000K for whatever reason, don't wait until you see 4,999K while driving from Nyc to florida and ignore it.. Change it when it's due. Get regular servicing and the car will last.


You can never go based on these auto magazines or auto tester's results, because like history itself, there is a certain mark of bias in them. You can't expect to read about the IS-F doing 0-60 in 6 seconds [ per se] and beating the m3 by a second, having the most up to date features over the bmw and being called "equal" to the m3 and think that this will apply to the IS-f sitting in the dealership right now. That was all done by one car under often manipulated variables and circumstances such as professional drivers and test tracks ect..

As temporary Insanity stated, you need to drive them both . Satisfy yourself with your experiences not those of a professional driver in an enclosed course
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Old 06-29-2011, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by 16n69 View Post
OK...did some time over at the Lexus IS-F forum...to see if they could be objective...
...they, for the most part, had a lot of respect for the E9x M3, but ultimately felt that the IS-F
now equaled it in performance as described in the C&D Feb. 2011 article "Lightening Lap".

Also,since "long-term reliability is a huge factor for me (10 yrs. +)...they advised to get the IS-F as Lexus "hands down" has BMW beat for LONG TERM reliability. Far less electronic issues and much better service & customer support???
Said Toyota/Lexus has built brand on this fact and no BMW can compete in that area?
Most beleive BMW stand for Bring More Worry...especially after warranty and that the Lexus is virtually worry free dependability, long term, past warranty?
If you're asking us, you obviously know what the answer is going to be. Seems like you actually want the IS-F. Go right ahead, grab a 60-70k Toyota and let us know how you feel about it
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Old 06-29-2011, 07:09 AM
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Just buy the Toyota if you really prefer it.
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Old 06-29-2011, 08:17 AM
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The IS-F hasn't been around long enough to make reliability claims. I was a Toyota guy for a long time, but they do lay an egg once in a while like any auto maker (2001 MR2 Spyder anyone? Accelerator problems blamed on floor mats?). We won't know if the IS-F is a star or a dog for a couple years.

You need to pick the car you want to drive for those 10 years. Both will require maintenance. Both will be expensive to repair when those times come.
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Old 06-29-2011, 08:24 AM
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Yes a Lexus is more reliable then a BMW - but a BMW is still a hands down better car. The ///M is better then the IS-F in terms of performance (anyone who just looks at 0-60, 1/4 mile, top speed is not looking hard enough). Plus people see a Lexus and say "oh a Lexus"....BMW is still more elite

Given that, test drive both and figure out which you prefer. If reliability is the issue go for the rebadged toyota.
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Old 06-29-2011, 08:33 AM
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The Lexus, like nearly all Toyotas, is a well engineered, well built, reliable billet of a car. It doesn't come with a manual transmission and, while capable, doesn't seem to excite its drivers very often. The M3 on the other hand is a howling banshee: fun to the point of insanity and pretty frightening if you're not careful.

To put it more succinctly, the Lexus is the kind of car you take home to meet your parents, while the M3 makes you restless to head out into the night for a wild ride. You're not sure where it'll end, but you know there'll be memories.

Last edited by Carraway; 06-29-2011 at 08:35 AM.
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