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E90/E92/E93 M3 (2008 - 2014)
4th generation E90 M3 sedan, E92 M3 coupe and E93 M3 convertible. The last of the naturally aspirated M3s, powered by a 4.0 liter V8 making 414hp and 295 lb-ft of torque.

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  #26  
Old 06-29-2011, 10:47 AM
energetik9 energetik9 is offline
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Originally Posted by furby076 View Post
Yes a Lexus is more reliable then a BMW - but a BMW is still a hands down better car. The ///M is better then the IS-F in terms of performance (anyone who just looks at 0-60, 1/4 mile, top speed is not looking hard enough). Plus people see a Lexus and say "oh a Lexus"....BMW is still more elite

Given that, test drive both and figure out which you prefer. If reliability is the issue go for the rebadged toyota.
These are good points. I'll also add (at least in my opinion), the IS-F doesn't stand out. The M3 is fairly sublte, but the air scoops, the hood, etc all make it look more agressive.

Every time I see an IS-F, I wonder if anyone else around me even knows what it is. The only reason I typically spot it so fast is from the unique paint.

Performance aside, if I'm buying an M3 (which I will be), I want people to know I'm driving an M3. Call me vain.....
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  #27  
Old 06-29-2011, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by energetik9 View Post
These are good points. I'll also add (at least in my opinion), the IS-F doesn't stand out. The M3 is fairly sublte, but the air scoops, the hood, etc all make it look more agressive.

Every time I see an IS-F, I wonder if anyone else around me even knows what it is. The only reason I typically spot it so fast is from the unique paint.

Performance aside, if I'm buying an M3 (which I will be), I want people to know I'm driving an M3. Call me vain.....
The IS-F still looks a chick car to me.
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  #28  
Old 06-29-2011, 12:20 PM
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An M3 to me would be like beer to Homer Simpson.

An IS-F to me would be like fleas on a greyhound.
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  #29  
Old 06-29-2011, 05:13 PM
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The attributes of the vehicles has been debated above. I will only add one thing: In my experience Lexus (and Infiniti) service is superior to BMW service. Lexus and (Infiniti) seems to want to please the customer, BMW seems to tolerate the customer. My wife has had an Infiniti FX35 and Lexus RX300 and those dealerships have been much more pleasant and customer driven to deal with. The BMW delearship I usually deal with, not so much.
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  #30  
Old 06-29-2011, 05:22 PM
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IS-F = rebadged Toyota

M3 = BMW

What else do you need to know? How much IQ points makes one stupid? None, stupid and intelligent are not opposites. Quite a few intelligent people are stupid.

Anything else you need to know?
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  #31  
Old 06-29-2011, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Rock36 View Post
Couple things, to me those lightning laps serve no reason for me to chose one car over another. I have my reservations about their results anyway.

Just because Toyota and Lexus have great reliability reputations overall does mean a particular car might not have issues. There is off course a difference in the super mass produced camrys and low volume performance. I'm not saying the ISF isn't reliable just don't assume it has the reliability and durability of the tried and tested cars in the line.

From a performance standpoint the are probably pretty even as far as day to day driving. Do you track or attend HPDEs?
No, will not be tracking anymore...
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  #32  
Old 06-29-2011, 07:16 PM
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Depends on what transmission you want. Does the IS have a gas guzzler tax also? One factor is the M3's is pretty abysmal. FWIW, I got 27.9 MPG on a recent trip to Las Vegas in my S4. I don't think the M3 would have broken 19. Saving money is a toss up but saving time is really important to me. Not fun to go to the gas station every 200 miles.

I saw an IS-F up close last week. Was talking to the driver at a state park. The CF on the interior was cool and I liked the dials on the instrument cluster, but it didn't appear larger than life the way an M3 or an S4 does.

I agree with the person who mentioned the Skyline GT-R. They added LEDs to the front, my neighbor has the new one. That's an $80k commitment though, but a clear winner over a 911 especially for young people who just look like a-holes in a Porsche.

Last edited by westwest888; 06-29-2011 at 07:23 PM.
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  #33  
Old 06-29-2011, 07:32 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Originally Posted by 16n69 View Post
BTW, the "tips" on an M3 are just "quad" for a few inches before sticking out the rear...both are dual pipes and neither have "TRUE" Quad exhausts...
Tips are just for show in a M# as well.
For that matter, do engines have dual exhausts to begin with? They seem all have a single exhaust outlet, or is that one per piston? What configuration of pipes connected to the engine exhaust is irrelevant

Last edited by dtc100; 06-29-2011 at 07:34 PM.
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  #34  
Old 06-29-2011, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by LarkHouston View Post
The attributes of the vehicles has been debated above. I will only add one thing: In my experience Lexus (and Infiniti) service is superior to BMW service. Lexus and (Infiniti) seems to want to please the customer, BMW seems to tolerate the customer. My wife has had an Infiniti FX35 and Lexus RX300 and those dealerships have been much more pleasant and customer driven to deal with. The BMW delearship I usually deal with, not so much.
I have owned both BMW and Lexus and that has not been my experience. My experience has only been with 2 BMW dealers and 2 Lexus dealers but I have found the service and the dealer experience for both brands to be excellent.

As for the cars themselves I do not feel that my BMW is better engineered than my Lexus was. They were certainly different from each but I would not equate those differences to one being "better engineered" than the other.

My Lexus SC Coupe felt like it had been carved out of a solid block of steel and stayed that way for 130,000 miles. It was an excellent high speed cruiser, handled very well on the twisties and was far better than my BMW at dealing with poor road surfaces. The ergonomics were far superior and the controls were perfectly situated and easy to use. The quality of the leather and the interior in general was higher. As far as it being a "rebadged Toyota". that is exactly what it was as that particularly model was marketed in Japan as the Toyota Soarer. That fact did not bother me in the least.

My 335i also feels very solid but just does not feel as refined as the Lexus did. It has remained rattle free and is as quiet if not quieter than the Lexus (which was very quiet)

I don't have an issue with the interior other than that cheap contact paper looking stuff on the top of the dashboard. The placment of most of the controls is for the most part OK but placing the controls and the LED indicator for setting the seat pre-sets on the side of the seat cushion where they can't be seen is somewhere beyond stupid. I miss the power adjustable steering wheel that the Lexus had but that is a minor point.

The BMW is noticably quicker and feels more planted than the Lexus does. The steering feels very positive and the car is very responsive. The fly in the oinment is in the way the car handled poor surfaces with the RFTs and the stock dampers. It was not exactly confidence inspiring as the car was prone to becoming unsettled (and in some cases damaged) when it encountered a pot hole, construction plate or other road imperfection.

They were both what I would consider "drivers cars" but the BMW is more hard edged and better performing. I would characterize both as "drivers cars" but the BMW is noticably quicker and has higher limits. For my use of the car the difference in performance is probably academic as either car was capable at negotiatiing the roads that I regularly drive on at far higher speeds than I will ever travel them at and both had more than sufficient acceleration.

So after owning both brands I do not feel that BMWs are superior engineered cars to Lexus. In the case of the one of each that I owned they were both well engineered and each had good qualities that the other lacked but the BMW had what I consider to be a glaring flaw in engineering (the RFTs and the suspension) and the Lexus did not. At one point I reached the point with the BMW where due to the "pothole explosions" issue I found driving the car to be so unpleasant that I avoided driving it. I never felt that way about the Lexus. Now that that issue has been sorted out I find driving the 335i to be very enjoyable and look forwartd to taking it out for a weekend excursion.

All that being said I would very likely choose an M3 over an IS-F, particularly in light of the IS-F's harsh suspension, but at this point in time in spite of the fact that I (eventually) enjoyed both cars the reality is that it is unlikely that I will buy another Lexus or another BMW.
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Last edited by captainaudio; 06-29-2011 at 08:17 PM.
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  #35  
Old 06-29-2011, 07:50 PM
16n69 16n69 is offline
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I have owned both BMW and Lexus and that jas not been my experience. My experience has only been with 2 BMW dealers and 2 Lexus dealers but I have found the service and the dealer experience for both brands tp be excellent.

As for the cars themselves I dp not feel that my BMW is better engineered than my Lexus. They were certainly different from each but I would not equate those differences to one being "better engineered" than the other.

My Lexus SC Coupe felt like it had been carved out of a solid block of steel and stayed that way for 130,000 miles. It was an excellent high speed cruiser handled very well on the twisties and was far better than my BMW at dealing with poor road surfaces. The ergonomics were far superior and the controls were perfectly situated and easy to use. The quality of the leather and the interior in general was higher.

My 335i also feels very solid but just does not feel as refined as the Lexus did. It has remained rattle free and is as quiet if not quieter than the Lexus (which was very quiet)

I don't have an issue with the interior other than that cheap contact paper looking stuff on the top of the dashboard. The placment of most of the controls is for the most part OK but placing the LED indicator for setting the seat pre-sets on the side of the seat cushion where it can't be seen is somewhere beyond stupid. I miss the power adjustable steering wheel that the Lexus had but that is a minor point.

The BMW is noticably quicker and feels more planted than the Lexus does. The steering feels very positive and the car is very responsive. The fly in the oinment is in the way the car handled poor surfaces with the RFTs and the stock dampers. It was not exactly confidence inspiring as the car was prone to becoming unsettled (and in some cases breaking) when it encountered a pot hole, construction plate or other imperfection.

So after owning both brands I do not feel that BMWs are superior engineered cars to Lexus. In the case of the one of each that I owned they were both well engineered and each had good qualities that the other lacked but the BMW had what I consider to be a glaring flaw in engineering (the RFTs and the suspension) and the Lexus did not.

All that being said I would probably choose an M3 over an IS-F, particularly in light of the IS-F's harsh suspension, but at this point in time the reality is that it is unlikely that I will buy another Lexus or another BMW.
Thanks...just curious, what car do you think you will go for next...
...how''s things in Manhattan, I miss NY.
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  #36  
Old 06-29-2011, 08:10 PM
RBinDC RBinDC is offline
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Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
I have owned both BMW and Lexus and that has not been my experience. My experience has only been with 2 BMW dealers and 2 Lexus dealers but I have found the service and the dealer experience for both brands to be excellent.

As for the cars themselves I do not feel that my BMW is better engineered than my Lexus was. They were certainly different from each but I would not equate those differences to one being "better engineered" than the other.

My Lexus SC Coupe felt like it had been carved out of a solid block of steel and stayed that way for 130,000 miles. It was an excellent high speed cruiser, handled very well on the twisties and was far better than my BMW at dealing with poor road surfaces. The ergonomics were far superior and the controls were perfectly situated and easy to use. The quality of the leather and the interior in general was higher.

My 335i also feels very solid but just does not feel as refined as the Lexus did. It has remained rattle free and is as quiet if not quieter than the Lexus (which was very quiet)

I don't have an issue with the interior other than that cheap contact paper looking stuff on the top of the dashboard. The placment of most of the controls is for the most part OK but placing the controls and the LED indicator for setting the seat pre-sets on the side of the seat cushion where they can't be seen is somewhere beyond stupid. I miss the power adjustable steering wheel that the Lexus had but that is a minor point.

The BMW is noticably quicker and feels more planted than the Lexus does. The steering feels very positive and the car is very responsive. The fly in the oinment is in the way the car handled poor surfaces with the RFTs and the stock dampers. It was not exactly confidence inspiring as the car was prone to becoming unsettled (and in some cases damaged) when it encountered a pot hole, construction plate or other road imperfection.

So after owning both brands I do not feel that BMWs are superior engineered cars to Lexus. In the case of the one of each that I owned they were both well engineered and each had good qualities that the other lacked but the BMW had what I consider to be a glaring flaw in engineering (the RFTs and the suspension) and the Lexus did not.

All that being said I would probably choose an M3 over an IS-F, particularly in light of the IS-F's harsh suspension, but at this point in time in spite of the fact that I (eventually) enjoyed both cars the reality is that it is unlikely that I will buy another Lexus or another BMW.
Well said Captain,

I recently sold my 1997 SC300 with MT. It gave me 14 years of reliable, refined service. But it lacked the excitement that my 335is offers. On the other hand, the BMW's ride is a lot less comfortable than the SC300 and gives me pause on a rough road (I paid $50K to put up with this punishment?). The guy I sold the SC300 loves the car an emails me every few weeks with a new story. That said, it was time to get a different car - and even with its hard ride I love my Bimmer. It kicks butt!!!

But maybe I should have splurged on an M3 coupe. Too late now.

Last edited by RBinDC; 06-29-2011 at 08:12 PM.
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  #37  
Old 06-29-2011, 08:26 PM
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captainaudio captainaudio is offline
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Originally Posted by RBinDC View Post
Well said Captain,

I recently sold my 1997 SC300 with MT. It gave me 14 years of reliable, refined service. But it lacked the excitement that my 335is offers. On the other hand, the BMW's ride is a lot less comfortable than the SC300 and gives me pause on a rough road (I paid $50K to put up with this punishment?). The guy I sold the SC300 loves the car an emails me every few weeks with a new story. That said, it was time to get a different car - and even with its hard ride I love my Bimmer. It kicks butt!!!

But maybe I should have splurged on an M3 coupe. Too late now.
With the stock dampers and the RFTs I was about ready to push the 335i into the East River. With regular tires and Koni FSDs it is a very different car. The ride is firm but it is not harsh and the car feels as planted as it ever did if not moreso.

My SC300 also was an MT. MT SCs are somewhat rare. I can't say that I find the BMW "more exciting" or more enjoyable to drive than the Lexus although it certainly ourperforms it.

I never drove the two of them back to back on the same roads. There was a gap of serveral weeks between the time I got rid of the Lexus and when I had the BMW shipped to New York from Florida.

I know that you had both for a while so I will defer to you on the A/B comparison. You also have to consider that we are talking about 2 cars that are 15 years apart in terms of design and engineering. If Lexus had continued to develp the SC Coupe I would have seriously considered getting another but when I bought my 335i (and now for that matter) there was nothing in the Lexus line up that intereted me.

It would be great to have a car that had the good qualities of both the SC300 and the 335i. Ms. Audio's Jaguar XKR does in a sense but at a higher price point.

CA
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Last edited by captainaudio; 06-29-2011 at 08:40 PM.
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  #38  
Old 06-29-2011, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by 16n69 View Post
Thanks...just curious, what car do you think you will go for next...
...how''s things in Manhattan, I miss NY.
We are considering moving and will not make a decision on the next car until we know what the parking situation will be.
The garage in the building we are in now has been great. I have a dedicated spot, the attendants take very good care of the car and I have had no problems with the car being damaged. Unfortunately this is not the case in all Manhattan garages.

CA
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Last edited by captainaudio; 06-29-2011 at 08:42 PM.
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  #39  
Old 06-29-2011, 08:46 PM
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For that matter, do engines have dual exhausts to begin with? They seem all have a single exhaust outlet, or is that one per piston? What configuration of pipes connected to the engine exhaust is irrelevant
Many 'V' engines have true dual exhaust systems with one manifold, one one muffler, etc. for each cylinder bank.

CA
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  #40  
Old 06-29-2011, 09:06 PM
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///M-ratedE90 ///M-ratedE90 is offline
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Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
I have owned both BMW and Lexus and that has not been my experience. My experience has only been with 2 BMW dealers and 2 Lexus dealers but I have found the service and the dealer experience for both brands to be excellent.

As for the cars themselves I do not feel that my BMW is better engineered than my Lexus was. They were certainly different from each but I would not equate those differences to one being "better engineered" than the other.

My Lexus SC Coupe felt like it had been carved out of a solid block of steel and stayed that way for 130,000 miles. It was an excellent high speed cruiser, handled very well on the twisties and was far better than my BMW at dealing with poor road surfaces. The ergonomics were far superior and the controls were perfectly situated and easy to use. The quality of the leather and the interior in general was higher. As far as it being a "rebadged Toyota". that is exactly what it was as that particularly model was marketed in Japan as the Toyota Soarer. That fact did not bother me in the least.

My 335i also feels very solid but just does not feel as refined as the Lexus did. It has remained rattle free and is as quiet if not quieter than the Lexus (which was very quiet)

I don't have an issue with the interior other than that cheap contact paper looking stuff on the top of the dashboard. The placment of most of the controls is for the most part OK but placing the controls and the LED indicator for setting the seat pre-sets on the side of the seat cushion where they can't be seen is somewhere beyond stupid. I miss the power adjustable steering wheel that the Lexus had but that is a minor point.

The BMW is noticably quicker and feels more planted than the Lexus does. The steering feels very positive and the car is very responsive. The fly in the oinment is in the way the car handled poor surfaces with the RFTs and the stock dampers. It was not exactly confidence inspiring as the car was prone to becoming unsettled (and in some cases damaged) when it encountered a pot hole, construction plate or other road imperfection.

They were both what I would consider "drivers cars" but the BMW is more hard edged and better performing. I would characterize both as "drivers cars" but the BMW is noticably quicker and has higher limits. For my use of the car the difference in performance is probably academic as either car was capable at negotiatiing the roads that I regularly drive on at far higher speeds than I will ever travel them at and both had more than sufficient acceleration.

So after owning both brands I do not feel that BMWs are superior engineered cars to Lexus. In the case of the one of each that I owned they were both well engineered and each had good qualities that the other lacked but the BMW had what I consider to be a glaring flaw in engineering (the RFTs and the suspension) and the Lexus did not. At one point I reached the point with the BMW where due to the "pothole explosions" issue I found driving the car to be so unpleasant that I avoided driving it. I never felt that way about the Lexus. Now that that issue has been sorted out I find driving the 335i to be very enjoyable and look forwartd to taking it out for a weekend excursion.

All that being said I would very likely choose an M3 over an IS-F, particularly in light of the IS-F's harsh suspension, but at this point in time in spite of the fact that I (eventually) enjoyed both cars the reality is that it is unlikely that I will buy another Lexus or another BMW.
In keeping with the relevancy of CA's analysis to the thread topic, I have both the M3 and IS-F as "Hot Wheels" toy cars and find the IS-F more stiffly sprung.



[couldn't resist - I guess I am either more of an axle of evil, or thrown out now]
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  #41  
Old 06-29-2011, 09:11 PM
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In keeping with the relevancy of CA's analysis to the thread topic, I have both the M3 and IS-F as "Hot Wheels" toy cars and find the IS-F more stiffly sprung.



[couldn't resist - I guess I am either more of an axle of evil, or thrown out now]

Didn't I already kick you out?

CA
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Old 06-29-2011, 09:29 PM
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beden1 beden1 is offline
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With the stock dampers and the RFTs I was about ready to push the 335i into the East River. With regular tires and Koni FSDs it is a very different car. The ride is firm but it is not harsh and the car feels as planted as it ever did if not moreso.

It would be great to have a car that had the good qualities of both the SC300 and the 335i. Ms. Audio's Jaguar XKR does in a sense but at a higher price point.

CA
Yesterday, I drove my 335is up the road by our house and hit a sunken manhole cover. I didn't feel it in the seat of my pants, but the hard hitting sound had me thinking I may have damaged my 19" rims with ultra low profile tires. Upon later inspection, fortunately, there was no damage.

I then took my son's M3 sedan with 18" wheels and non-runflat tires up the road and ran over the same sunken manhole cover (without the M-Drive engaged). It just felt like a dull thud in the M3.

I'm very impressed how the car really handles like a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde...with the M-Drive disengaged versus the M-Drive engaged.

When you get the chance, go for a test drive on the road surfaces where you found your car did not handle them very well, to see if the M3 may prove to be a very good balance for your weekday and weekend driving haunts.
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Old 06-29-2011, 09:29 PM
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  #44  
Old 06-29-2011, 10:50 PM
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I've spent considerable time behind the wheel of both. While the IS-F is (arguably) more reliable, the M3 is a much better "driver's car" between the two. I found the IS-F more of "kit-bashed" IS than anything else. It is nose heavy, the transmission hunts a lot and the interior is cramped. The M3 seems to be a complete package engineered with the performance from the outset with better balance and more interior room.

If you have to ask the question about reliability... get the IS-F.

(Personally, I never let reliability get in the way of driving enjoyment.)

- Mike
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  #45  
Old 06-29-2011, 11:43 PM
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enigma enigma is offline
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As for the "spiritual" or "soul" mumbo jumbo arguments, I don't subscribe to the idea that cars have "souls". They have "characters" based on the performance, brand image, design, exhaust note, etc.

I would agree that you should test drive both and make your mind up.

You have unique priorities than the others here, and you have to see which car offers more of what you are looking for. For example, if you are talking about performance, do you care about the raw numbers (e.g. 0-60, slalom, braking, lap time, etc.) or do you care more about the experience of "connectedness" and personal engagement?

Since you seem to be concerned about the cost of maintaining either car, I can tell you NA engines from BMW are as reliable as anything made by the Japanese brand based on my experience with my past 5 BMWs. There is no denying that Toyota/Lexus has set the golden standard for reliability, and that is an impressive feat. BMW, on the other hand, has had more reliability issues historically. That generalization, however, can be very misleading if you are looking at specific models. Surely, the DCT will have more issues and will be more expensive to fix than the traditional 8sp automatic tranny on the IS-F, but that's the price you pay for the newer and more cutting edge technology.
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  #46  
Old 06-29-2011, 11:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emission View Post
I've spent considerable time behind the wheel of both. While the IS-F is (arguably) more reliable, the M3 is a much better "driver's car" between the two. I found the IS-F more of "kit-bashed" IS than anything else. It is nose heavy, the transmission hunts a lot and the interior is cramped. The M3 seems to be a complete package engineered with the performance from the outset with better balance and more interior room.

If you have to ask the question about reliability... get the IS-F.

(Personally, I never let reliability get in the way of driving enjoyment.)

- Mike
I have zero tolerance for poor reliability on any car.

I have not had reliability with either Lexus or BMW.
.
I suppose if I had a loaner car dropped off at my house a few times a week I might feel differently.



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  #47  
Old 06-29-2011, 11:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
I have zero tolerance for poor reliability on any car.

I have not had reliability with either Lexus or BMW.
.
I suppose if I had a loaner car dropped off at my house a few times a week I might feel differently.

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* Poor reliability reminds me of a race car, and it adds character.

* Never had a Lexus, but my Toyota 4Runner was flawless. Our '08 X5 stranded my wife on the side of the road with a bad fuel pump on Friday. I was in Germany, so she had to ride with the tow truck. Pretty sure she prefers reliability.

* I get new cars once a week, not weekly. Today they dropped off a $167,000 Mercedes-Benz.

- Mike
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'86 Porsche 911 Turbo 4MT


Gone, but never forgotten... my E70 X5 35d, E90 335i, E46 330i, E36 328i, E70 X5 3.0si, E53 X5 3.0i.
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  #48  
Old 06-30-2011, 12:08 AM
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Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
Yesterday, I drove my 335is up the road by our house and hit a sunken manhole cover. I didn't feel it in the seat of my pants, but the hard hitting sound had me thinking I may have damaged my 19" rims with ultra low profile tires. Upon later inspection, fortunately, there was no damage.

I then took my son's M3 sedan with 18" wheels and non-runflat tires up the road and ran over the same sunken manhole cover (without the M-Drive engaged). It just felt like a dull thud in the M3.

I'm very impressed how the car really handles like a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde...with the M-Drive disengaged versus the M-Drive engaged.

When you get the chance, go for a test drive on the road surfaces where you found your car did not handle them very well, to see if the M3 may prove to be a very good balance for your weekday and weekend driving haunts.
Since I changed the tires and shocks I don't have that issue any more.

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  #49  
Old 06-30-2011, 01:44 AM
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Originally Posted by CT View Post
The IS-F felt like driving a nice, quick 22ft Bayliner. Comfortable, reasonably fast and overly insulated but still grippy handling.

Comparatively, the M3 is a monster. The only comparison is on data sheets and cost.
CT,

I have driven both vehicles. IS-F's suspension is quite harsh and it literally hurts my back. I'll have to go with M3 for comfort. That's just my 2 cents.
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  #50  
Old 06-30-2011, 02:11 AM
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I will ask, what is it that attracts you to either car? Does a sedan, or automatic transmission appeal? Or would you be more interested in a coupe, or traditional manual transmission?

And personally, I wouldn't even consider those two cars together. I know they are in the same class, but I would compare more similarly the M3 to the Audi RS4, and at the other side, the IS-F to the Mercedes C63 AMG. (Sorry to complicate things here, just bear with me.) The Audi and the M3 are both a little more purpose-focused I think. Both concentrate their efforts on honing what is already good and intended of both vehicles, and that is focusing on the driver, being connected to the road. The IS-F and the AMG I feel are in a little bit different category. These two rely on bigger, torquier V-8's, Automatic transmissions, more comfortable rides, and are gaudily styled to shout (literally) "Hey look at me!" There's not as much focus behind those two; You can tell they were ordinary sedans worked over in an attempt to be "M3 killers." But there's more to an M3 than big displacement, big wheels, and big exhaust pipes. Not saying the IS-F and AMG are bad cars, but I think they're different buyers. So, I've said all that to say this...

What are you looking for in your purchase? Something comfortable on the streets, that'll turn some heads and haul a** stop-light to stop-light? Or something that's crisper, and probably more at home on some curvy back roads? Does the coupe body-style the M3 offers mean anything to you? How about a Manual Transmission? Will you need all the fancy gadgets? And something in my head says that in 10 years, you'll still be in love with your M3, (and so will your friends and others.) I don't know if that would still be the case with a Lexus, of any kind...
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