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Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > E39 (1997 - 2003)

E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

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  #1  
Old 04-24-2016, 08:31 PM
jdrod66 jdrod66 is offline
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Fuel injectors

Car was running a little lean. Long term trims 6.1 and 8.5.
Didn't change as I held rps at 3k so decided it was fuel delivery.
I first decided to clean all injectors out. So I removed and sprayed them out as I tapped 12 v to each one. Put them back in and wow. Car ran great. Fuel trims got as low as 5.0 and 6.7. Smooth and quick response as if car was new although I have 169k miles on it. I was very happy until the very next day! Fuel trims went back up. It's lazy again and hesitation. Can someone tell me how I should proceed.
Thanks
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  #2  
Old 04-24-2016, 08:51 PM
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If you think it is fuel delivery, how is your pressure at the rail? Last fuel filter change?
Just going for some ideas... Was there a big temp swing between when you ran the tests?
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Old 04-25-2016, 01:13 AM
Sroor9001 Sroor9001 is offline
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What's that long term trim what do you mean by that can you explain want to learn
Do you mean fuel pressure in scharder or resistance in fuel injectors or what ??
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Old 04-25-2016, 04:06 AM
jdrod66 jdrod66 is offline
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Pressure at rail was 52psi before cleaning injectors. Did not check temp before or after. Filter changed 6 months ago.

I'll try to answer the question on fuel trims and I'm not a mechanic.
It is the the adjustment in percent of the amount of fuel that is either added or reduced by the cars computer to keep the ratio of air to fuel in the combustion chamber at a predetermined level. The trims change to compensate for defects that affect the ratio. Examples are vacuum or fuel leaks or bad sensors ect.
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Old 04-25-2016, 04:07 AM
Sroor9001 Sroor9001 is offline
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I think we can understand this from this video on tourqe app and that's what I'll do just to check also but I don't have oxygen sensor my car is without catalytic converter from the factory can I see the fuel trim then ??

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Old 04-25-2016, 04:17 AM
jdrod66 jdrod66 is offline
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Not sure if you can get trims without oxygen sensors. As far as I know the oxygen sensors are used to read the exhaust air to tell the computer if trims needs adjusted.
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Old 04-25-2016, 04:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdrod66 View Post
Pressure at rail was 52psi before cleaning injectors. Did not check temp before or after. Filter changed 6 months ago.
The only reason I ask is the fuel delivery is temp dependent. So were the O2s oscillating properly? How was the MAF reading?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sroor9001 View Post
I think we can understand this from this video on tourqe app and that's what I'll do just to check also but I don't have oxygen sensor my car is without catalytic converter from the factory can I see the fuel trim then ??

Even though you don't have catalytic converters you should still have O2s. In US cars in he precat O2s are the "fuel trim advisors" and the postcat check catalytic efficiency and "fine tune" the fuel trim. In yours it should just be the first set controlling fuel trim.
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Old 04-25-2016, 05:30 AM
jdrod66 jdrod66 is offline
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02 censer were oscillated in range. .2 to .9.
Where should I be checking the temp that affects fuel and what should it be?
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  #9  
Old 04-25-2016, 05:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdrod66 View Post
02 censer were oscillated in range. .2 to .9.
Where should I be checking the temp that affects fuel and what should it be?
There should be an intake air temp sensor (IAT) and hopefully throwing a code if it is broken or "off". You should be able to read it from your scanner to validate reading. The IAT assists in calculating air mass so if it is off then you can see adjustments etc. It should be reading ambient temp +/- a degree or three. Honestly this is a "more rare" occurrence, but possible. Just like the MAF could be "off" (dirty etc) is more rare.


note: temperatures impact air mass so if you are reading at 50F (say at night) then 90F (say noon next day) you may see different fuel trims.
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Old 04-25-2016, 07:34 AM
jdrod66 jdrod66 is offline
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Ok just checked with a scanner. The IAT sensor read 80 degrees Celsius (176 Fahrenheit).
The current temp outside is 78 degrees Fahrenheit.
How should I check the sensor? I do know where it is .

I have another MAS coming in this week to try.
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  #11  
Old 04-25-2016, 08:23 AM
Sroor9001 Sroor9001 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAngryBear View Post
The only reason I ask is the fuel delivery is temp dependent. So were the O2s oscillating properly? How was the MAF reading?



Even though you don't have catalytic converters you should still have O2s. In US cars in he precat O2s are the "fuel trim advisors" and the postcat check catalytic efficiency and "fine tune" the fuel trim. In yours it should just be the first set controlling fuel trim.
Nope
No precat no post cat I have all 4 without connection and no holes
Mine I think is affected by maf
Fuel injector , fuel filter , fuel pressure , vacuum leak
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  #12  
Old 04-25-2016, 09:26 AM
ca2014mp2 ca2014mp2 is online now
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Ok,, I have a question why are two people asking questions on this thread? Sroor this is JDrods tread.. if you want to learn about fuel trims start your own tread as this is not an open forum on this tread. We do this as to not confuse the original posters question. NOW JD... I think you have the IAT confused with your engine temperature senor. confirm you have the correct temp.. you iat should read 5% of the outside air temp when engine is cold. in fact if you let your car sit overnight you can check them all iat, engine temp, and outside temp all three sensors should be +-5% .. with the engine hot the iat rises and doesn't match the outside true temp. as the engine heat effects it..

now your trim number are not that out of wack.. normal tune ups and filters will normally take care of all that... I wouldn't stress it as the more you work on it ,, it will improve..
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Series E39 Vehicle code DP63 Model 528ITA Engine M52TU
Body type OTHER Catalog model USA Production date 1999 / 06
Transmission Automatic Steering Left Catalyzer YES

Production FROM : 1998/09/01 TO : 1999/08/31

Last edited by ca2014mp2; 04-25-2016 at 09:28 AM.
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  #13  
Old 04-25-2016, 11:05 AM
jdrod66 jdrod66 is offline
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Taken at same time. And it's 81 degrees out. Farienhight.
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Last edited by jdrod66; 04-25-2016 at 11:07 AM.
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  #14  
Old 04-25-2016, 11:20 AM
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Ummmm... I am confused now. Your engine coolant is at 147C and your oil at 138C... Where is the extra heat coming from and isn't that overheating? And your radiator enables a 48C heat sink?

Edit: Thought about it and the extra heat is obvious... But 147 still seems high... Will have to check TAB later. I also have the 310.

Last edited by TheAngryBear; 04-25-2016 at 11:29 AM.
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  #15  
Old 04-25-2016, 11:43 AM
Sroor9001 Sroor9001 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ca2014mp2 View Post
Ok,, I have a question why are two people asking questions on this thread? Sroor this is JDrods tread.. if you want to learn about fuel trims start your own tread as this is not an open forum on this tread. We do this as to not confuse the original posters question. NOW JD... I think you have the IAT confused with your engine temperature senor. confirm you have the correct temp.. you iat should read 5% of the outside air temp when engine is cold. in fact if you let your car sit overnight you can check them all iat, engine temp, and outside temp all three sensors should be +-5% .. with the engine hot the iat rises and doesn't match the outside true temp. as the engine heat effects it..

now your trim number are not that out of wack.. normal tune ups and filters will normally take care of all that... I wouldn't stress it as the more you work on it ,, it will improve..
Thank you man the only thing that first time I've heard about this fuel trim that's why Iam asking
Sorry again and sorry for the thread opener
At least I learned and will learn by googling on this term
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  #16  
Old 04-25-2016, 12:21 PM
ca2014mp2 ca2014mp2 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sroor9001 View Post
Thank you man the only thing that first time I've heard about this fuel trim that's why Iam asking
Sorry again and sorry for the thread opener
At least I learned and will learn by googling on this term

open a tread and i'll pass along great info.. save you from hunting around..
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Series E39 Vehicle code DP63 Model 528ITA Engine M52TU
Body type OTHER Catalog model USA Production date 1999 / 06
Transmission Automatic Steering Left Catalyzer YES

Production FROM : 1998/09/01 TO : 1999/08/31
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  #17  
Old 04-25-2016, 12:25 PM
ca2014mp2 ca2014mp2 is online now
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those are bad readings.. sensors shot.. 300 degree oil.. and the engine is toast...
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Series E39 Vehicle code DP63 Model 528ITA Engine M52TU
Body type OTHER Catalog model USA Production date 1999 / 06
Transmission Automatic Steering Left Catalyzer YES

Production FROM : 1998/09/01 TO : 1999/08/31
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  #18  
Old 04-26-2016, 07:28 AM
jdrod66 jdrod66 is offline
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Here's the first thing in the morning readings. Engine cold.
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  #19  
Old 04-26-2016, 07:48 AM
Sroor9001 Sroor9001 is offline
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It seem the scan tool is not working well on your car model
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Old 04-26-2016, 07:50 AM
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Wow... Unless there is a separate "extra heated" part of Florida you should probably consider checking the lines and IAT... Possible replacement needed.
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  #21  
Old 04-26-2016, 08:04 AM
jdrod66 jdrod66 is offline
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The iat connector had the 5volts. The sensor measured 1k ohms yesterday with engine still warm. I'll pull it out today and look at it. I will also try the obd tester hooked up to the round pin connector under the hood to see if it makes a difference. Thanks.
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  #22  
Old 04-26-2016, 08:06 AM
Sroor9001 Sroor9001 is offline
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Did you try to check test 7
And check coolant temp on your device in the same time if it different there is problem in your device and check again with another car and see
My suspect on icarsoft this version I think 6.5 is not comparable with all cars it'll show very high or very low by minus reading
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Old 04-26-2016, 08:07 AM
ca2014mp2 ca2014mp2 is online now
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dont forget you still could have high ohms from the sensor back to the dme...
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Series E39 Vehicle code DP63 Model 528ITA Engine M52TU
Body type OTHER Catalog model USA Production date 1999 / 06
Transmission Automatic Steering Left Catalyzer YES

Production FROM : 1998/09/01 TO : 1999/08/31
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Old 04-26-2016, 08:09 AM
jdrod66 jdrod66 is offline
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Hey two great ideas. I'll do check into both this afternoon.
Thanks again.
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  #25  
Old 04-26-2016, 08:12 AM
ca2014mp2 ca2014mp2 is online now
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be sure to let us know what you find out...
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Series E39 Vehicle code DP63 Model 528ITA Engine M52TU
Body type OTHER Catalog model USA Production date 1999 / 06
Transmission Automatic Steering Left Catalyzer YES

Production FROM : 1998/09/01 TO : 1999/08/31
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