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E36 /7 Z3 (1996-2002)
E36/7 Z3 roadster and coupe talk with our gurus here.

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  #1  
Old 03-16-2004, 08:41 PM
MRoadster MRoadster is offline
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S52 Oil

The last two times that I took my 00' M Roadster to the dealer they filled it w/ 10w60. Now, I am about to change the oil myself for the first time... I think 10w60 is overkill for the S52 motor. What is the proper oil weight for my motor? I was thinking about running 5w30 Mobil 1. Does this sound right?

Thanks in advance!

Ryan
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  #2  
Old 03-16-2004, 08:50 PM
markd89 markd89 is offline
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Lightbulb

I've been told to use 5-30 Mobil 1. I think the 10-60 is for S-54.

Good luck!
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  #3  
Old 03-16-2004, 09:26 PM
yetiboy yetiboy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRoadster
The last two times that I took my 00' M Roadster to the dealer they filled it w/ 10w60. Now, I am about to change the oil myself for the first time... I think 10w60 is overkill for the S52 motor. What is the proper oil weight for my motor? I was thinking about running 5w30 Mobil 1. Does this sound right?

Thanks in advance!
Ryan
I think if you are just doing normal street driving than the 5-30 will suffice. If you are doing a fair amount of aggressive driving or tracking than a higher viscosity should be utilized. Our S52 motors do not have an oil cooler and tend to run hotter than the E36 M3's with the same motor (a few theories on why, but I tend to agree with the theory that with our rounded hood retain more heat and don't dissipate as well)

I ran at Thunderhill Raceway at Thunderhill today and I saw up to 275 (Ambient Temps = High 70's to Low 80's), and during my Summer events last year I saw up to 295 degrees. You definitely wouldn't want to run a 5-30 under these conditions. Taking my situation into account Redline recommended the 10-40, so that is the oil I have utilized since June of last year. Previous to that I had run Mobil 20-50 and for a brief period Castrol Syntech 10-40.

I see now issues running the Castrol 10-60 that the dealer has been using. From everything I have heard the BMW Spec Castrol is a terrific oil, and seeing that you are in Louisiana I can't imagine the temps getting low enough to make the 10-60 prohibitive to use. If you want to research different oils, look at Used Oil Analysis's...basically anything on oil check out the forums on bobistheoilguy.com...

http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi

MSH
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  #4  
Old 03-16-2004, 09:36 PM
MRoadster MRoadster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yetiboy
and seeing that you are in Louisiana...
I am actually in Los Angeles, CA. Thanks for the info. I will definitely check out the link provided. I primary will be doing normal street driving w/ a spirited run here and there . How much is Red Line 10-40 running a quart?

Thanks again!

Ryan

Last edited by MRoadster; 03-16-2004 at 09:41 PM.
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  #5  
Old 03-16-2004, 09:55 PM
yetiboy yetiboy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRoadster
I am actually in Los Angeles, CA.......How much is Red Line 10-40 running a quart?
Ryan, Yikes!! I don't know how the heck I messed that one up, especially seeing I was born in Newport Beach

Anyways, I buy Redline for a tad under $7 a qt from one of the local shops....Yes, it is expensive, but it is worth it to me for the added protection and performance under the tough conditions my engine sometimes sees. I will be adding my oil cooler (hopefully this weekend !!) soon, and I was, originally, thinking that I would go to something cheaper in cost like a Mobil 10-40, since my primary concern was the oil temps I was seeing, but at this point I plan to stick with Redline.

MSH
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  #6  
Old 03-16-2004, 10:15 PM
MRoadster MRoadster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yetiboy
Ryan, Yikes!! I don't know how the heck I messed that one up, especially seeing I was born in Newport Beach
I changed my profile from LA to Los Angeles, CA after you made the comment about Louisiana... I will let you off the hook this time.

Ryan
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  #7  
Old 03-16-2004, 10:24 PM
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TeamM3 TeamM3 is offline
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there ws a SI bulletin that recommends usng the BMW synthetic 5W-30 oil, it costs the same as anything else so I just buy and use it

as fo oil temp, only a fool runs his engine hard when oil temp is above 265 degF regardless of the oil type or weight, you either need an oil cooler or you need to shut it down
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  #8  
Old 03-16-2004, 11:03 PM
yetiboy yetiboy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeamZ4
as fo oil temp, only a fool runs his engine hard when oil temp is above 265 degF regardless of the oil type or weight, you either need an oil cooler or you need to shut it down
"A fool"... Thanks for the disrespect....I'll try to be a bit more diplomatic than you in my reply

I guess that makes ALOT of fools with S52 M Coupes and Roadsters tracking and seeing those temps (BTW - these "fools" as you call them are some of the more respected members on these forums - if you would like a comprehensive list of links to threads on this I will happily oblige) . There are plenty of folks with S52 motors with M Coupes that are tracking their car. It is a common issue with these cars. Do you really think I'm the only person tracking my S52 M Coupe or MRoadster without an oil cooler?? I specifically approached Redline on my particular situation and they assured me that their oils are built to withstand these kinds of temps. Is it the optimal situation...of course not....that is why I'm adding an oil cooler, however, if you are not doing more than a two events a year I do not see the necessity.

MSH
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  #9  
Old 03-16-2004, 11:36 PM
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Ron Stygar Ron Stygar is offline
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Oil temperature

From page 63 of my '01 M coupe owners manual.

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  #10  
Old 03-16-2004, 11:49 PM
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TeamM3 TeamM3 is offline
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no disrespect intended SasquatchBoy, those are the exact words that an "expert" in the field told me, I was just passing it on

next time I'll just keep my mouth shut rather than chance some little girl getting her white cotton panties all wadded up over it in otherwords, if I'm intentionally disrespecting you, you'll know it
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  #11  
Old 03-16-2004, 11:58 PM
yetiboy yetiboy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeamZ4
next time I'll just keep my mouth shut rather than chance some little girl getting her white cotton panties all wadded up over it in otherwords, if I'm intentionally disrespecting you, you'll know it
Cool....If you say so. Saw you were in SD...you going to be in Atwater? You can intentionally disrespect me there

Ron...thx for the Manual shot...You have confirmed that a lot of people are "fools"

MSH
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  #12  
Old 03-17-2004, 03:53 AM
///MDex ///MDex is offline
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A few weeks ago, I switched to Mobil1 15W-50 to prep for the summertime temps. Last weekend I did a late night, 5 -10 minute highway high speed sprint. Ambient temps were around upper 60s? My temp displayed close to 260 and then some. IMO, that seems really high for traveling at 90+mph when its below 70. Around town, with easy / typical driving, I crest between the 200 & 260 marks.

The 15-50 takes a few more minutes to warm up, but I like the (perceived) extra protection

Last edited by ///MDex; 03-17-2004 at 06:45 AM.
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  #13  
Old 03-17-2004, 06:15 AM
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Pinecone Pinecone is offline
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But also remember a heavier oil is harder to pump through the oil passages.

For street and autocross I would just run the BMW 5W-30 as it is a good oil and about the cheapest full synthetic out there. If I switched, it would be to Mobil 1 0W-40.

Realize that no other off the shelf -30 oil meets the BMW required specs of ACEA A3/B3. Most full synthetic -40 and -50 oils do. Redline does not test it oils to ACEA specs, but I have seen that they suspect they would meet ACEA A2/B2 levels.

This is only really a player if your car is still under warranty.

Also full synthetic oils are much more stable in viscosity as the temp gets higher. So unlike a conventional oil, you don't need to change oil viscosities with outside temp, except for the real extremes.

Castrol TWS 10W-60 is overkill, for most engines. In BMW make somechanges to the S62 and stopped using it in late S62s.
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  #14  
Old 03-17-2004, 06:18 AM
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bob lindquist bob lindquist is offline
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Me was Fool

I don't track my car.
I was living in NC, now its south FL.
I was running mid dial (230) always.
Some times 240
a few times 250
never 260

I was concerned when I moved here to FL that it would be really high with AC on, in the dead of summer. (haven't been here with the coupe in the summer yet)

So I added the oil (S54) cooler AND the fluidyne radiator. I saw a 15-20 degree reduction. I feel better with the summer comming.

Someone mentioned the hood trapping the heat. Maybe the hood could use some venting? Like functional gills?
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  #15  
Old 03-17-2004, 06:34 AM
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MGRMLN MGRMLN is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///MDex
A few weeks ago, I switched to Mobil1 15W-50 to prep for the summertime temps. Last weekend I did a late night, 5 -10 minute highway high speed sprint. Ambient temps were around upper 50s? My temp displayed close to 260 and then some. IMO, that seems really high for traveling at 90+mph when its below 70. Around town, with easy / typical driving, I crest between the 200 & 260 marks.

The 15-50 takes a few more minutes to warm up, but I like the (perceived) extra protection
Wow Dex, 260 seems pretty high for the conditions.
I've only seem close to 260 on the track where there were a lot of slow speed acceleration points.
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  #16  
Old 03-17-2004, 06:42 AM
///MDex ///MDex is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinecone
But also remember a heavier oil is harder to pump through the oil passages.
Again, its just my perception, but I bet one of the reasons most manf spec their lighter weight oils so they can claim better fuel mileage; don't ask me why on sportscar. Guzzler or Federal DOT related? IDK.

The heavier doesn't burn off as quickly, whereas some (including myself) are/were replacing a quart or more every couple thousand miles (and this is when I was barely pushing the MC, and less than 24k at the time); no thanks. Also, I haven't found any failures of oil pumps becasue of running the slightly heavier juice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob lindquist
Someone mentioned the hood trapping the heat. Maybe the hood could use some venting? Like functional gills?
Louvers on a MC hood. 2 rows down the lateral center of the hood? That might be cool. I'd try it on an extra from a salvage yard first though. Although, it'd likely be more expensive than the new rad and oil cooler, which from your experience, sounds like the trick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MGRMLN
Wow Dex, 260 seems pretty high for the conditions.
I've only seem close to 260 on the track where there were a lot of slow speed acceleration points.
That kinda what I thought. Upon further reflection, I think it was warmer outside that night (-will edit post-). We had some really nice weather here the past couple weekends.

Last edited by ///MDex; 03-17-2004 at 06:45 AM.
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  #17  
Old 03-17-2004, 06:59 AM
caylan caylan is offline
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I know with summer coming around every1 is interested in higher oil temps & oil coolers.

But what are the ramification of an oil cooler for winter temps (say <40 degrees) on the engine? Esp. since many of us are still in winter temps...wouldn't the oil temp not getting up to 200 be a problem esp. if you don't trrack during winter or just cruizin...?

Last edited by caylan; 03-17-2004 at 07:01 AM.
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  #18  
Old 03-17-2004, 07:08 AM
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MGRMLN MGRMLN is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caylan
I know with summer coming around every1 is interested in higher oil temps & oil coolers.

But what are the ramification of an oil cooler for winter temps (say <40 degrees) on the engine? Esp. since many of us are still in winter temps...wouldn't the oil temp not getting up to 200 be a problem esp. if you don't trrack during winter or just cruizin...?
I believe most oil coolers (though I have no idea about the aftermarket ones for our cars) are controlled with a thermostat the way your radiator is. The oil will flow into the cooling grate only after it has reached the minimum temperature determined by the oil cooler thermostat.
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  #19  
Old 03-17-2004, 07:09 AM
///MDex ///MDex is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caylan
But what are the ramification of an oil cooler for winter temps (say <40 degrees) on the engine?
The coolers have thermostats
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  #20  
Old 03-17-2004, 07:11 AM
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count_schemula count_schemula is offline
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The Z3 does run a little warm. Poor hood ventilation, iron block and hood is right on the motor. I see 250 as the normal temp everyday. Well, this winter the thing actually did run a wee bit under that. ~240+, maybe.

Anyhow, when tracking the car in the summer, I was all over 260 and a few, so, I mean, if I see 250 on a milk run, there's not too much margin to work with. Add to the list of idiosyncrasies.

I have run 2 weights in my car - 5W-30 Mobil 1 and 15W-50 Mobil1.

It's on the bottle, the 50 is supposed to offer better protection against higher temps. But this stuff is voodoo, and we even admit we buy it for the "perceived" benefits. But a mechanic friend also told me that 15W-50 is going to RETAIN more heat as well. So, there is a trade-off with 50 weight as well - better high high protection and somewhat higher running temps.

When running 30 weight, here in Atlanta, it really felt kinda thin at times during the summer. Don't jump me, I know "kinda thin" is weak science, but it's my impression nonetheless.

When I switched from 50 to 30 before the winter, it was easy to notice that my car started somewhat easier.

Anyhow, I am looking for some 0W-40 Mobil 1 and I will run that this summer. I think 30 is too thin for hot climates and I think 50 is too thick. I also agree with the comment above the 50 is harder to pump through the motor. My motor seemed to have a "slight" bit more pep after going back to 30 weight.

Other than that, the Z3 runs warm enough that I usually pop the hood after driving in the summer. It's just an oven after you shut down, there is decent heat in there for hours after driving if you do not pop the hood.

Last edited by count_schemula; 03-17-2004 at 07:16 AM.
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  #21  
Old 03-17-2004, 07:25 AM
///MDex ///MDex is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by count_schemula
Anyhow, I am looking for some 0W-40 Mobil 1 and I will run that this summer. I think 30 is too thin for hot climates and I think 50 is too thick. I also agree with the comment above the 50 is harder to pump through the motor. My motor seemed to have a "slight" bit more pep after going back to 30 weight.
You know what is interesting: if you look at the data sheets for all the M1 motor oils, all the specs are within 1% of each other, except for one, the viscosity @ 150*C, which is where the 50 is expected to be thicker.

Again, if you change the oil religiously like most of us do, just about any synthetic will offer more than adequate protection. Oil is always a 'touchy feely' subject

Last edited by ///MDex; 03-17-2004 at 07:29 AM.
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  #22  
Old 03-17-2004, 07:32 AM
yetiboy yetiboy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by count_schemula
Anyhow, when tracking the car in the summer, I was all over 260 and a few, so, I mean, if I see 250 on a milk run, there's not too much margin to work with. Add to the list of idiosyncrasies.
Yes, chalk another one up to BMW not really thinking/sorting things through on the S52 MZ3's. I think it is nearly impossible to stay under 265 on the track with our cars. Many members of this board and others have seen the same temps as I have at the track...

Buldogge, Neil-DC, M couped, tripleM, D///Mill, etc

I believe Buldogge and Neil-DC have coolers on their cars now, and M Couped had problems with the VPD unit. It sounds like he may go the way of what Bob Lindquist has already done (OEM Route) and what I will be starting on this weekend.

Bottom line IMO...BMW should have added an oil cooler to our cars. Based on the fact that it is an M Car, I would assume that extended high performance driving like tracking would have been taken into account. Good to see they made things right by adding the cooler to the S54 variant

MSH
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  #23  
Old 03-17-2004, 08:07 AM
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Stouffville Z3 Stouffville Z3 is offline
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Jeez, I have a hard time getting my car up to temp (by the factory coolant temp guage). I realize these guages aren't the most accurate but my car regularly runs at or just above the 1/4 warm mark. It'll warm up to full operating temp if idling or cruising at 80+ mph. Never overheats, or even goes beyond the halfway normal operating temp mark.
I run 15w50, with 5w30 it ran even cooler, and I wasn't too comfortable with it.
My coolant is the premix stuff you buy at the parts stores (Canadian Tire here in Canada). Is it possible that this could be the reason I'm running cool. Does the BMW coolant retain more heat?
I've always wondered about this but never given it too much thought because I'm not overly cold and never overheat.
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  #24  
Old 03-17-2004, 11:11 AM
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MGRMLN MGRMLN is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by count_schemula
Anyhow, I am looking for some 0W-40 Mobil 1 and I will run that this summer. I think 30 is too thin for hot climates and I think 50 is too thick. I also agree with the comment above the 50 is harder to pump through the motor. My motor seemed to have a "slight" bit more pep after going back to 30 weight.

Other than that, the Z3 runs warm enough that I usually pop the hood after driving in the summer. It's just an oven after you shut down, there is decent heat in there for hours after driving if you do not pop the hood.
This is why I run Mobil 1 0w-40 all year 'round. It's perfect for Atlanta temps. Pumps easily and has enough viscosity to withstand the occasional flogging. Like you, I always pop my hood when I get MGRMLN home in the garage. With the amount of heat in there, I don't like the idea of it baking all the stuff under there.

Minsoo
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  #25  
Old 03-17-2004, 11:23 AM
///MDex ///MDex is offline
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A quick blip on what the oil weights mean, from http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question164.htm

Quote:
Multi-weight oils (such as 10W-30) are a new invention made possible by adding polymers to oil. The polymers allow the oil to have different weights at different temperatures. The first number indicates the viscosity of the oil at a cold temperature, while the second number indicates the viscosity at operating temperature.

At cold temperatures, the polymers are coiled up and allow the oil to flow as their low numbers indicate. As the oil warms up, the polymers begin to unwind into long chains that prevent the oil from thinning as much as it normally would. The result is that at 100 degrees C, the oil has thinned only as much as the higher viscosity number indicates. Another way of looking at multi-vis oils is to think of a 20W-50 as a 20 weight oil that will not thin more than a 50 weight would when hot.
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