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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #1  
Old 07-11-2011, 08:07 AM
pharding pharding is offline
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Audi A7 versus F10

I talked to the owner of an A7 yesterday and looked at the car first hand. It is spectacular and at a great price point. The guy had leased 3 5ers prior to getting the A7. He is extremely pleased with the A7 in relation to the BMW 5er. The competing BMW product will be the $100k 6er Gran Coupe. At $25k less the Audi A7 will steal sales from BMW.
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  #2  
Old 07-11-2011, 08:38 AM
PsychDoc1 PsychDoc1 is offline
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The direct competitor to the 5 is the A6. The A7 commands a $10,000 premium and is the exact same car with different sheet metal. The A6 is an amazing car to be sure. It's primary handicaps are the chaotic Audi dealership experience and generally lousy Audi reputation for service as well as its truly uninspired external design. Now the latter concern is certainly not an issue with the A7 but it will cost you between $5k-$10k more than the equivalent 5 series. However, from a direct car to car standpoint the A6 is a slightly better car in many respects.

It's faster, its nav system is unquestionably better, the interior is on a par or slightly more appealing than the 5er, and, of course, it comes without the dreaded RFT's.

The front LEDs you are either going to love or hate. I like them but I'm very worried that with crap cars like the Chrysler 300 sporting LED running lights they're going to become dated and trendy in the very near future. The BMW angel eyes, by comparison are pure BMW and will remain so into the foreseeable future (though they only look amazing with xenons...with halogens they look positively awful).
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Old 07-11-2011, 09:18 AM
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alewifebp alewifebp is offline
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Well if he leased those 5's, he must have bought the A7, because the Audi lease rates are dreadful.

A7 compares more with a CLS IMHO. No 8 cylinder for a car as expensive as the A7 is disappointing.

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Old 07-11-2011, 09:27 AM
pharding pharding is offline
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The A7 is stunning in person and will appeal to the F10 crowd. BMW's have a premium price of roughly $5k compared to the comparable Audi product. Even with a slight premium over the comparable F10, the A7 is in same price range of many F10's with BMW's typical option packages. BMW has made great strategic moves with its current line up. However the A7 shows what poor choices BMW made with the ugly 5 GT.
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  #5  
Old 07-11-2011, 09:29 AM
pharding pharding is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alewifebp View Post
Well if he leased those 5's, he must have bought the A7, because the Audi lease rates are dreadful.

A7 compares more with a CLS IMHO. No 8 cylinder for a car as expensive as the A7 is disappointing.

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He leased the A7.
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  #6  
Old 07-11-2011, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by pharding View Post
He leased the A7.
How did he manage that for less than 1000/month? A6 prestige with innovation, 12k, was running just around that with a 60 some odd thousand msrp car.

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  #7  
Old 07-11-2011, 10:56 AM
Art234 Art234 is online now
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I think both the A6 and A7 are great cars, but it is definitely the dealership and sporadic service quality which will probably cause issues further down the road. The A6 had my full attention against the 535xi last month, but I went with the 535, and although only 10 days in, I am very glad I did.

Case in point-made the final service appointment for the Audi a month ago-11 days out to get a loaner, showed up, no loaner. Made a service appointment at lunchtime today, for some minor items, service writer says "how about Wednesday and we have a car for you?"....if that remains consistent, the final decision will have been a no brainer....
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Old 07-11-2011, 10:58 AM
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I just don't like the interior of the A7. The dash is hard plastic rather than the soft touch material BMW uses. There is less and also cheaper looking wood trim. The paddles on the steering wheel are plastic and feel flimsy compared with the metal paddles on the BMW.
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  #9  
Old 07-11-2011, 10:59 AM
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Plus it's the same car as the A6 but they charge 8k just for a hatchback. I prefer to pay for engineering not liftbck design.

Also no DHP on Audi. The suspension is not variable.
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Old 07-11-2011, 11:41 AM
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Saterday I sat in an Audi, a 700 hp tuned RS6.

hmm.

understeering!

Last edited by Sophisto; 07-11-2011 at 11:50 AM.
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  #11  
Old 07-11-2011, 01:36 PM
swajames swajames is offline
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Originally Posted by Stealth.Pilot View Post
Plus it's the same car as the A6 but they charge 8k just for a hatchback. I prefer to pay for engineering not liftbck design.

Also no DHP on Audi. The suspension is not variable.
Doesn't seem to matter much - in those videos posted by TJPark recently, the 2012 A6 with its standard suspension was able to outperform and outhandle even the DHP-equipped 535i.
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Last edited by swajames; 07-11-2011 at 01:58 PM.
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  #12  
Old 07-11-2011, 03:40 PM
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Doesn't seem to matter much - in those videos posted by TJPark recently, the 2012 A6 with its standard suspension was able to outperform and outhandle even the DHP-equipped 535i.
I think what you describe is a function of a lighter car on a stiff suspension and Pirelli P Zero summer max performance tires which blow away BMWs Michelin Primacy grand touring tires.

http://blogs.insideline.com/straightline/2011/06/il-track-tested-2012-audi-a6-30-tfsi-quattro.html


I'm not convinced the ride is good on all roads. Around here there are a wide variety of road surfaces and I'm sure driving an Audi would give you a headache on some of the worse road surfaces. On the previous model, the sports suspension was terrible on some roads. Audi achieves great cornering with a noticeably rough ride.

BMWs dynamic suspension has always been excellent in it's ability to provide a quality ride and excellent handling on any surface.
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  #13  
Old 07-11-2011, 04:00 PM
Rscheflen Rscheflen is offline
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Audi service was my deciding factor

I was close to going for the A7 over the 535 but chose the latter. I still have an Audi and have nothing but bad service at my local dealer. I did see my first A7 up close this weekend and really liked the look of it, but I don't regret going with the BMW. Great performance with the sport transmission and getting over 30 mpg on the highway.
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  #14  
Old 07-11-2011, 04:43 PM
swajames swajames is offline
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Originally Posted by Stealth.Pilot View Post
I think what you describe is a function of a lighter car on a stiff suspension and Pirelli P Zero summer max performance tires which blow away BMWs Michelin Primacy grand touring tires.

http://blogs.insideline.com/straight...i-quattro.html


I'm not convinced the ride is good on all roads. Around here there are a wide variety of road surfaces and I'm sure driving an Audi would give you a headache on some of the worse road surfaces. On the previous model, the sports suspension was terrible on some roads. Audi achieves great cornering with a noticeably rough ride.

BMWs dynamic suspension has always been excellent in it's ability to provide a quality ride and excellent handling on any surface.
Most of the reports so far indicate that you can drive the Audi without getting a headache...

It is pretty clear that the new A6 has the ride and handling measure of the F10 in a way that the prior generation did not with the E60.

The 535i in the Inside Line test was equipped with Goodyear Excellence which is a summer tire.
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  #15  
Old 07-11-2011, 05:26 PM
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bayoucity bayoucity is offline
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Originally Posted by Stealth.Pilot View Post
Plus it's the same car as the A6 but they charge 8k just for a hatchback. I prefer to pay for engineering not liftbck design...
Hey, aren't you describing the pricing strategy among F10 & F07?
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Old 07-11-2011, 05:31 PM
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Just thought I'd leave this in here. (Huge A7 fan BTW. I'd pay the extra money for the hatchback design over the A6)

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...son/specs.html

0-60: 4.7s
1/4 mile: 13.3s @ 103 mph

and this is on a car with 310hp!


For comparison; a 550i with 400hp does it in 4.8 s

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take_road_test

1/4 mile: 13.1 s at 109mph
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  #17  
Old 07-11-2011, 05:37 PM
alex md alex md is offline
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i owned A8 and service was horrendous
agree that A7 is a good looking car, but it is not competitor of F10
i personally like interior of my 550xiMsport/black/hexagon/ much more than Audi A7 or A6
but again their RF as well as service makes it no choice for me
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Old 07-11-2011, 05:41 PM
BlackBerryCubed BlackBerryCubed is offline
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how on earth is that a7 so fast? is that a ringer car????
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Old 07-11-2011, 05:50 PM
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how on earth is that a7 so fast? is that a ringer car????
Nope, nothing special. The 3.0T is a beast
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Old 07-11-2011, 05:54 PM
BlackBerryCubed BlackBerryCubed is offline
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that 310 must actually mean 310 WHP
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Old 07-11-2011, 06:22 PM
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that 310 must actually mean 310 WHP
R&T just tested a MT S4 0-60 in 4.4 seconds. Zoinks!

That engine is STOUT.
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Old 07-11-2011, 06:37 PM
solstice solstice is offline
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Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
Just thought I'd leave this in here. (Huge A7 fan BTW. I'd pay the extra money for the hatchback design over the A6)

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...son/specs.html

0-60: 4.7s
1/4 mile: 13.3s @ 103 mph

and this is on a car with 310hp!


For comparison; a 550i with 400hp does it in 4.8 s

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take_road_test

1/4 mile: 13.1 s at 109mph
It's starting to look more and more like the A6/A7 3.0T are closer competitors to the 550 than the 535. Motortrend also have the 550 at 4.8s so it's no longer only insideline showing the 3.0T running more or less neck on neck with the 550.
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Old 07-11-2011, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by solstice View Post
It's starting to look more and more like the A6/A7 3.0T are closer competitors to the 550 than the 535. Motortrend also have the 550 at 4.8s so it's no longer only insideline showing the 3.0T running more or less neck on neck with the 550.
It's all part of the evolution towards efficiency. Heck, the upcoming 2L 4 banger 528i is running faster than the current 3L I6 528i.
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Old 07-11-2011, 07:17 PM
solstice solstice is offline
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It's all part of the evolution towards efficiency. Heck, the upcoming 2L 4 banger 528i is running faster than the current 3L I6 528i.
True, though I suspect that there are still a lot of buyers in this segment who are of the opinion: No V8 - no deal. So it will be interesting to see if Audi keeps the eight exclusive for the S6, i guess they will, to not have to push the S6s output to extreme levels.

Last edited by solstice; 07-11-2011 at 07:18 PM.
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Old 07-11-2011, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
Just thought I'd leave this in here. (Huge A7 fan BTW. I'd pay the extra money for the hatchback design over the A6)

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...son/specs.html

0-60: 4.7s
1/4 mile: 13.3s @ 103 mph

and this is on a car with 310hp!


For comparison; a 550i with 400hp does it in 4.8 s

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take_road_test

1/4 mile: 13.1 s at 109mph

These results don't align with anyone else's (including MotorTrend's).

Audi A7
0-60: 5.4s www.insideline.com
0-60: 5.4s www.caranddriver.com
0-60s: 5.3s www.motortrend.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by MotorTrend road test
Like most other Audis, the A7 is AWD, but something smells slightly fishy in Ingolstadt, and here's why: Last month, we tested another A7 with the same engine and transmission (Audi's very nice eight-speed automatic) and recorded a 60-mph run in 5.3 seconds and a quarter-mile time of 13.8 at 100.9 mph. True, because of options or lack thereof, this A7 is nearly 100 pounds lighter than the car we previously tested (4140 pounds versus 4232), but 92 pounds does not explain away six-tenths of a second. Our testing crew complained about the A7's violent shifts, and we asked Audi if the transmission (or anything else) had been reprogrammed. They had no explanation.
BTW, AWD vs AWD:

BMW 550xi
0-60: 4.5s www.autoweek.com
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