Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > Everything Else > Off-Topic

Off-Topic
Everything not about BMWs. Posts must be "primetime safe" and in good taste. No personal attacks allowed. Political posting is restricted to the Political Science forum!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-10-2013, 08:44 PM
stylinexpat's Avatar
stylinexpat stylinexpat is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Between California and Asia
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 18,092
Mein Auto: 2009 M3
Why Muslims require meat to be Halal and Jews for it to be Kosher

This is quite sad..

http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...,4578302.story

__________________
2009 M3
130i Sold
330ZHP Sold
330 Coupe Sold

Last edited by stylinexpat; 12-10-2013 at 09:24 PM.
Reply With Quote
Ads by Google
  #2  
Old 12-10-2013, 08:47 PM
Keepittrill's Avatar
Keepittrill Keepittrill is offline
My avatar is a selfie LOL
Location: Phoenix
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 4,179
Mein Auto: 2011 M3 DCT
Why Muslims require meat to be Halal and Jews for it to be Kosher

Heeeeeeere come the Islamophobic and anti-Semitic remarks.

But yeah, I've seen plenty of vids like these. It's pretty inhumane...


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
__________________
2010 E89 Z4- gone and forgotten (;
2011 M3 DCT

Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-10-2013, 09:33 PM
wyb's Avatar
wyb wyb is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Stepping away from the keyboard ...
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 5,040
Mein Auto: A car
huh? Do you have evidence that halal / kosher slaughterhouses DON'T get USDA violations and that NO cruelty ever happens in them??
__________________
535i XDrive | Alpine White w/Black+Natural Leather Interior

It's ALL perspective - get some. No - I am NOT addressing YOU!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-10-2013, 09:46 PM
paulg's Avatar
paulg paulg is offline
Omni Extaris
Location: The far flung Isles of Langerhan
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,024
Mein Auto: The Axles of Evil
Quote:
DiGiorno Dairy Supplier Drops Farm Accused Of Animal Abuse (VIDEO)

It's not delivery, it's dairy farm abuse.

That's the allegation being made by animal rights group Mercy for Animals, which today released undercover video it says was shot at a Wisconsin farm that has supplied popular frozen pizza brand DiGiorno with dairy products.

The graphic video, which the group says was shot in October, shows workers at the Wiese Brothers Farm outside Green Bay, Wis., beating, dragging and whipping cows. Some of the cows, which appear unable to walk, are dragged by the neck using tractors. Other cows appear to have infected or freely bleeding wounds.

Both Nestlé, the company that manufactures DiGiorno pizza, and its cheese supplier, Foremost Farms USA, denied any knowledge of abuse at the Wiese Brothers Farm and expressed sadness at the revelations.

“Nestlé is outraged and deeply saddened by the mistreatment of animals shown in this video,” Deborah Cross, a representative for Nestle’s pizza division, told ABC News in a statement. Cross told ABC that Nestlé had notified Foremost Farms USA that it would not accept any more cheese "made with milk from the Wiese Brothers Farm.”

Foremost Farms USA released its own statement expressing extreme disappointment at the allegations of mistreatment and pledging to discontinue any business affiliations with the farm.

On its website, SliceofCruelty.com, Mercy for Animals quotes acclaimed animal welfare activist Dr. Temple Grandin as saying that the "dragging [of] live cows, and completely suspending them with the cow lift is severe animal abuse. The actions of these people went beyond rough handling and escalated to the level of cruelty. Kicking, beating, and hard whipping of downed cows is abusive."

Fellow Colorado State University animal science professors Dr. Bernard Rollin, Dr. Terry Engle and William Wailes also contributed a joint statement to the site, writing that after watching Mercy for Animal's footage, it was clear that the Weise Brother employees were "uncaring and sadistic individuals" guilty of " "horrifying and nightmarish abuses of dairy cattle."

"There's a culture of cruelty that was allowed to fester at this factory farm facility," Matt Rice, director of investigations at Mercy for Animals, told ABC News. "No socially responsible corporation should support dairy operations that beat, kick, mutilate and drag animals."

For its part, the Wiese family told NBC News in a statement that it had fired two employees after watching the video and removed a third employee from “animal handling” responsibilities.

Capt. David Konrath of the Brown County Sheriff’s Department told NBC that his department had also opened its own investigation into the allegations and will inform the prosecutor if authorities believe charges are warranted.
.
__________________
We're the monsters of our own world. - Predators
If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong.

Heaven goes by favor; if it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in.
Samuel Clemens

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=7800&dateline=1275495849
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-10-2013, 09:46 PM
stylinexpat's Avatar
stylinexpat stylinexpat is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Between California and Asia
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 18,092
Mein Auto: 2009 M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by wyb View Post
huh? Do you have evidence that halal / kosher slaughterhouses DON'T get USDA violations and that NO cruelty ever happens in them??
No evidence Never worked at a slaughterhouse to provide evidence.
__________________
2009 M3
130i Sold
330ZHP Sold
330 Coupe Sold
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-10-2013, 10:00 PM
MatWiz's Avatar
MatWiz MatWiz is offline
Psychology Reversalist
Location: NYC
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 15,828
Mein Auto: 528
But this is not a slaughter house. These are dairy cows. Why the hell do they need to torture them like this? Cows who are ready to be milked RUN to the area to be milked. The pressure is "killing" them. They WANT you to milk them. Same with cows who needs to be fed. They eat, because they are hungry. And when they are done, they want out. You don't need to push them anywhere. This is beyond stupid.

Don't ask me how I know.
__________________
MatWiz
"Seeing is not believing. Believing is seeing." -Judy the Elf
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-10-2013, 10:22 PM
GregD's Avatar
GregD GregD is offline
Driver
Location: Colorado
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,366
Mein Auto: 330i ZHP
Quote:
Originally Posted by MatWiz View Post
But this is not a slaughter house. These are dairy cows. Why the hell do they need to torture them like this? Cows who are ready to be milked RUN to the area to be milked. The pressure is "killing" them. They WANT you to milk them. Same with cows who needs to be fed. They eat, because they are hungry. And when they are done, they want out. You don't need to push them anywhere. This is beyond stupid.

Don't ask me how I know.
You were a dairy cow in a past life?
__________________
2003 330i ZHP, 6 speed, no moonroof, xenons, mystic blue
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-10-2013, 10:58 PM
stylinexpat's Avatar
stylinexpat stylinexpat is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Between California and Asia
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 18,092
Mein Auto: 2009 M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by MatWiz View Post
But this is not a slaughter house. These are dairy cows. Why the hell do they need to torture them like this? Cows who are ready to be milked RUN to the area to be milked. The pressure is "killing" them. They WANT you to milk them. Same with cows who needs to be fed. They eat, because they are hungry. And when they are done, they want out. You don't need to push them anywhere. This is beyond stupid.

Don't ask me how I know.


__________________
2009 M3
130i Sold
330ZHP Sold
330 Coupe Sold
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-11-2013, 05:02 AM
Kamdog's Avatar
Kamdog Kamdog is offline
-- Robert S. Johnson 56FG
Location: New York
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,870
Mein Auto: 2008 535i
The requirements about kosher meat are over 2500 years old, and have nothing at all to do with anything going on here.
__________________

535i, Monaco, Cream, Light Poplar, Comfort Seats, PP, Nav, ED.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-11-2013, 06:17 AM
MatWiz's Avatar
MatWiz MatWiz is offline
Psychology Reversalist
Location: NYC
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 15,828
Mein Auto: 528
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregD View Post
You were a dairy cow in a past life?
You are asking if I was a dairy cow in my pasteurized life?
__________________
MatWiz
"Seeing is not believing. Believing is seeing." -Judy the Elf
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12-11-2013, 06:28 AM
MatWiz's Avatar
MatWiz MatWiz is offline
Psychology Reversalist
Location: NYC
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 15,828
Mein Auto: 528
Quote:
Originally Posted by stylinexpat View Post


I love milk. What can I do?




Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamdog View Post
The requirements about kosher meat are over 2500 years old, and have nothing at all to do with anything going on here.
I think Stylin was maybe referring to the kosher and halal slaughtering practice. Anyway, I know that a wounded or sick cow can not be slaughtered and be kosher. Only a healthy and "whole" cow can be considered kosher. So in that essence, these practices would not work in a kosher slaughter house. I can only imagine that halal has similar laws, because the kosher/halal meat are almost identical sans the blessing of the rabbi.

Is that correct?
__________________
MatWiz
"Seeing is not believing. Believing is seeing." -Judy the Elf
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-11-2013, 06:31 AM
wyb's Avatar
wyb wyb is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Stepping away from the keyboard ...
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 5,040
Mein Auto: A car
Quote:
Originally Posted by MatWiz View Post
But this is not a slaughter house. These are dairy cows. Why the hell do they need to torture them like this? Cows who are ready to be milked RUN to the area to be milked. The pressure is "killing" them. They WANT you to milk them. Same with cows who needs to be fed. They eat, because they are hungry. And when they are done, they want out. You don't need to push them anywhere. This is beyond stupid.

Don't ask me how I know.

I never watched video -but if this is dairy, wth does the title have meat in it?
__________________
535i XDrive | Alpine White w/Black+Natural Leather Interior

It's ALL perspective - get some. No - I am NOT addressing YOU!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-11-2013, 06:37 AM
MatWiz's Avatar
MatWiz MatWiz is offline
Psychology Reversalist
Location: NYC
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 15,828
Mein Auto: 528
Quote:
Originally Posted by wyb View Post
I never watched video -but if this is dairy, wth does the title have meat in it?
Watch it, it's not that bad/graphic.

I think from the animal abuse you'd think it's a slaughter house. I think Stylin thought it is. I don't know, ask him.

A wounded animal or a cow that suffers from infection... how would that affect her milk???

Are mothers permitted to breast feed their baby when they are sick?
__________________
MatWiz
"Seeing is not believing. Believing is seeing." -Judy the Elf
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12-11-2013, 07:46 AM
wyb's Avatar
wyb wyb is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Stepping away from the keyboard ...
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 5,040
Mein Auto: A car
Quote:
Originally Posted by MatWiz View Post
Watch it, it's not that bad/graphic.

I think from the animal abuse you'd think it's a slaughter house. I think Stylin thought it is. I don't know, ask him.

A wounded animal or a cow that suffers from infection... how would that affect her milk???

Are mothers permitted to breast feed their baby when they are sick?
My brother used to work in dairy (used to be herd manager on a Duchy of Cornwall farm) - infected cows milk is discarded - the dairy machinery reads an RFID on the cow - and the computer knows that the cow is sick/on antibiotics - and the milk never enters the main collection tanks (but they of course need to be milked).

I have now watched the video - and although it is a compilation - I have to say, the amount of injury and/or abuse of the animals there is disgusting. In years of visiting the farms my brother worked on, I would not have seen this much injury and blood - the cows on his farm are worth far more to the farm as health producers than injured and sick - the whole goal was to REDUCE the amount spent on drugs + veterinary fees, not injure the animals and have to spend to fix it. Those farm workers should be fired and never let work on a farm again.

As regards the hoising of the cows in the air - that is a proper hoisting device for lifting a downed cow - they are abusing it - I'd say the sick phcuks who work there have psycopathic tendencies.. animals not in the slaughterhouse should be tended to by workers who have the best interests of the animal at heart - all others "need not apply" imo.

For this particular piece to be a hit-job on the DiGiorno company seems way over the top - they buy milk products (cheese) - do they inspect every dairy that puts milk into their cheese? Almost certainly not - are they responsible? Almost certainly not. Should they care about the abuse - probably should... I would. If I worked at the corporation and I saw this video, phone calls would be made - suppliers would be alerted - fix this or find another buyer for your milk + cheese. PERIOD.
__________________
535i XDrive | Alpine White w/Black+Natural Leather Interior

It's ALL perspective - get some. No - I am NOT addressing YOU!
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-11-2013, 09:21 AM
MatWiz's Avatar
MatWiz MatWiz is offline
Psychology Reversalist
Location: NYC
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 15,828
Mein Auto: 528
Quote:
Originally Posted by wyb View Post
My brother used to work in dairy (used to be herd manager on a Duchy of Cornwall farm) - infected cows milk is discarded - the dairy machinery reads an RFID on the cow - and the computer knows that the cow is sick/on antibiotics - and the milk never enters the main collection tanks (but they of course need to be milked).

I have now watched the video - and although it is a compilation - I have to say, the amount of injury and/or abuse of the animals there is disgusting. In years of visiting the farms my brother worked on, I would not have seen this much injury and blood - the cows on his farm are worth far more to the farm as health producers than injured and sick - the whole goal was to REDUCE the amount spent on drugs + veterinary fees, not injure the animals and have to spend to fix it. Those farm workers should be fired and never let work on a farm again.

As regards the hoising of the cows in the air - that is a proper hoisting device for lifting a downed cow - they are abusing it - I'd say the sick phcuks who work there have psycopathic tendencies.. animals not in the slaughterhouse should be tended to by workers who have the best interests of the animal at heart - all others "need not apply" imo.

For this particular piece to be a hit-job on the DiGiorno company seems way over the top - they buy milk products (cheese) - do they inspect every dairy that puts milk into their cheese? Almost certainly not - are they responsible? Almost certainly not. Should they care about the abuse - probably should... I would. If I worked at the corporation and I saw this video, phone calls would be made - suppliers would be alerted - fix this or find another buyer for your milk + cheese. PERIOD.
Yes. I agree with everything you've said. That's why I said it was beyond stupid. They are "damaging" the farm property. I was wondering if the owners are fully aware of this. But maybe they are. How can they be so oblivious?

From my perspective, working with dairy cows as a 12-13 years old kid (child labor, ha!) the grown ups who worked there permanently in fact LOVED these cows like you'd like your pet. They had a loving and caring approach to the cows. They'd talk to them, scratch their heads, etc. The cows loved it.

I remember a few occasions when a cow was sick, or when a cow got sick and died, the manager was brought to tears and was depressed a few days. NOTHING like this would have happened in that place. If my manger would have seen this, these guys would have had to run for their lives because he would have break every bone in their body. I am certain of that. And I have the feeling that every farmer would have been the same.

We had a few hundreds cows. Not a very small herd. Still, they got the personal attention.

BTW, that is why I immediately recognize that this is a dairy, not a slaughter house. But if you never worked or visited one, it could be difficult to know.
__________________
MatWiz
"Seeing is not believing. Believing is seeing." -Judy the Elf

Last edited by MatWiz; 12-11-2013 at 09:24 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 12-11-2013, 09:51 AM
wyb's Avatar
wyb wyb is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Stepping away from the keyboard ...
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 5,040
Mein Auto: A car
and if you read follow the Chicago tribune link, you'll see the Nestle cut ties with the farm when it was brought to their attention. Good on them. I still think the hatchet job done on them is wrong though. you cannot blame the consumer for supply chain crimes when it comes down to a legal product - drugs maybe - pizza and cheese - nope. Not unless the dairy farm is OWNED by the Nestle corporation could they be legitimately blamed for the abuse on these cows.
__________________
535i XDrive | Alpine White w/Black+Natural Leather Interior

It's ALL perspective - get some. No - I am NOT addressing YOU!
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 12-11-2013, 09:53 AM
Spike Holmes Spike Holmes is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Frisco, TX
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 498
Send a message via Yahoo to Spike Holmes
Mein Auto: 525i, G35, Subway
Quote:
Originally Posted by MatWiz View Post
Yes. I agree with everything you've said. That's why I said it was beyond stupid. They are "damaging" the farm property. I was wondering if the owners are fully aware of this. But maybe they are. How can they be so oblivious?

From my perspective, working with dairy cows as a 12-13 years old kid (child labor, ha!) the grown ups who worked there permanently in fact LOVED these cows like you'd like your pet. They had a loving and caring approach to the cows. They'd talk to them, scratch their heads, etc. The cows loved it.

I remember a few occasions when a cow was sick, or when a cow got sick and died, the manager was brought to tears and was depressed a few days. NOTHING like this would have happened in that place. If my manger would have seen this, these guys would have had to run for their lives because he would have break every bone in their body. I am certain of that. And I have the feeling that every farmer would have been the same.

We had a few hundreds cows. Not a very small herd. Still, they got the personal attention.

BTW, that is why I immediately recognize that this is a dairy, not a slaughter house. But if you never worked or visited one, it could be difficult to know.
+1. One of our neighbors when I was growing up was a dairy farmer. I helped out a few times. They would abuse their "Cash Cows" about as soon as you would one of your own kids. And this wasn't just because they were "Cash Cows' and very valuable. They were like family to them.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 12-11-2013, 10:07 AM
shazi00 shazi00 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: New York
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 377
Mein Auto: 328i
Re: Why Muslims require meat to be Halal and Jews for it to be Kosher

Halal or kosher food requires thr blood to be drained from the cow or goat or even chicken. Kosher and halal food cannot come from an animal that is shot by a gun or sick or dead.

Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 12-11-2013, 10:28 AM
smyles smyles is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: DC
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 636
Mein Auto: X5
Quote:
Originally Posted by shazi00 View Post
Halal or kosher food requires thr blood to be drained from the cow or goat or even chicken...
I wonder how a video of, say, a cow bleeding to death would compare to OP's, esp. with some creativity.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 12-11-2013, 11:59 AM
stylinexpat's Avatar
stylinexpat stylinexpat is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Between California and Asia
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 18,092
Mein Auto: 2009 M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by shazi00 View Post
Halal or kosher food requires thr blood to be drained from the cow or goat or even chicken. Kosher and halal food cannot come from an animal that is shot by a gun or sick or dead.

Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
And the animal can not be made to suffer.
__________________
2009 M3
130i Sold
330ZHP Sold
330 Coupe Sold
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 12-11-2013, 02:45 PM
Kamdog's Avatar
Kamdog Kamdog is offline
-- Robert S. Johnson 56FG
Location: New York
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,870
Mein Auto: 2008 535i
My gramps was a shochet.

He would not have approved of abusing animals.


He was also a mohel.

He did me.

I wonder if there is a connection?

Nah, he presided over my marriage too. Forty years, at the end of the month.
__________________

535i, Monaco, Cream, Light Poplar, Comfort Seats, PP, Nav, ED.

Last edited by Kamdog; 12-11-2013 at 02:57 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 12-11-2013, 03:11 PM
stylinexpat's Avatar
stylinexpat stylinexpat is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Between California and Asia
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 18,092
Mein Auto: 2009 M3
Re: Why Muslims require meat to be Halal and Jews for it to be Kosher

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamdog View Post
My gramps was a shochet.

He would not have approved of abusing animals.


He was also a mohel.

He did me.

I wonder if there is a connection?

Nah, he presided over my marriage too. Forty years, at the end of the month.
You just made me Google "mohel" :o

Sent from my HTC One using BimmerApp mobile app
__________________
2009 M3
130i Sold
330ZHP Sold
330 Coupe Sold
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 12-11-2013, 05:51 PM
Dave 330i's Avatar
Dave 330i Dave 330i is offline
The King of Common Sense
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 133
Send a message via Skype™ to Dave 330i
Mein Auto:
nough said.
http://www.walmartcruelty.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=T48yOYjz5sk
__________________
Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid. Albert Einstein

Swim upstream. Go the other way. Ignore the conventional wisdom. If everybody is doing it one way, there’s a good chance you can find your niche by going exactly in the opposite direction", Sam Walton.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 12-11-2013, 06:23 PM
HW's Avatar
HW HW is offline
lurking
Location: was from vancouver, canada
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 18,078
Mein Auto: 323ci, manual
Quote:
Originally Posted by smyles View Post
I wonder how a video of, say, a cow bleeding to death would compare to OP's, esp. with some creativity.
it is illegal in the United States of America to film animal cruelty in factory farms.
__________________
2010 Acura TSX manual
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 12-11-2013, 06:55 PM
MatWiz's Avatar
MatWiz MatWiz is offline
Psychology Reversalist
Location: NYC
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 15,828
Mein Auto: 528
Quote:
Originally Posted by stylinexpat View Post
You just made me Google "mohel" :o

Sent from my HTC One using BimmerApp mobile app
I'll make it easy for you. A mohel is a person who slaughters the pee pee.
__________________
MatWiz
"Seeing is not believing. Believing is seeing." -Judy the Elf
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > Everything Else > Off-Topic
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:41 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms