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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #1  
Old 07-12-2011, 06:35 AM
tagheuer tagheuer is offline
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Is it true 2012 528 comes only in slush 4 cyl

That's what I am hearing....that the base, bread and butter 528 will not be offered with a manual transmission and can only be had with a turbo 4....

For me this makes it an easy decision, I thought BMWs were the "ultimate driving machines" and now they don't even offer a stick anymore? WTF?

Why anyone would pick a 528 over an A6, which can be had with a 6 cylinder and stick, is beyond me...

Please tell me this isn't true....ugh...

They are going back on everything they promised, i.e. they would always offer manual transmissions, they would never resort to "cheap power tricks" like turbocharging, i.e., they were always high and mighty over the Asian brands....

***********************************************


WOODCLIFF LAKE, New Jersey — BMW announced today that its 528i sedan will drop its current inline six-cylinder engine in favor of a twin-turbo 2.0-liter four-cylinder for 2012. With 240 horsepower and 260 pound-feet of torque, the 2.0-liter engine offers identical power and an additional 30 lb-ft of torque compared to the 3.0-liter engine in the outgoing 2011 BMW 528i.

The new turbo-4 will be mated to an eight-speed automatic transmission only. BMW says the 2012 528i will sprint from zero to 60 mph in 6.2 seconds, 0.4 second quicker than the 2011 model.

Also new for the 2012 528i is a standard start/stop system. This feature switches off the engine when the car is stationary at traffic lights or in slow-moving traffic. An Eco mode, which is activated by the driving experience switch, adjusts the engine map, heating, air-conditioning and mirror/seat heating to minimize fuel consumption.

Combined improvements are said to deliver up to 15 percent better fuel efficiency (final EPA results are pending). The 2011 528i is rated at 22 mpg city/32 mpg highway and 25 mpg combined.

BMW's xDrive all-wheel-drive system will also be an available option on the 528i for 2012. Currently, all-wheel drive is only available on 535i and 550i models.

The 2012 BMW 528i will arrive at U.S. dealers this fall.

Inside Line says: BMW is betting that added power and efficiency will be enough to overcome the idea of a four-cylinder 5 Series.
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  #2  
Old 07-12-2011, 06:50 AM
German Expat German Expat is offline
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Looks like it, they are also talking about a new all wheel drive.

http://content.usatoday.com/communit...-to-5-series/1
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  #3  
Old 07-12-2011, 07:13 AM
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Here's an intereseting press release for MY 2012 from the BMW Group site. Looks like Dynamic Handling plus other features will be standard.

Auto Start-Stop function and Driving Experience Control including ECO PRO mode set new standards of efficiency.
From autumn 2011, a Driving Experience Control switch will be fitted as standard on the BMW 5 Series Sedan and BMW 5 Series Touring models. This rocker switch on the centre console allows the driver to customise accelerator response characteristics, engine response, the power steering characteristics, the Dynamic Stability Control (DSC) thresholds and, on automatic models, the shift characteristics of the transmission. Drivers can choose between “COMFORT”, “SPORT” or “SPORT+” modes. All the four- and six-cylinder models also feature ECO PRO mode, which supports a relaxed, extra-fuel-efficient, low-rpm driving style. At the same time, ECO PRO mode also programs electrically powered convenience functions like the heated seats and exterior mirrors and the air conditioning to operate at optimum efficiency. A special display in the instrument cluster lets the driver know by how much the driving range is being extended when using ECO PRO mode (see chapter 2.6: BMW EfficientDynamics).

Here's a link.

https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/press...tem=node__2223
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  #4  
Old 07-12-2011, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tagheuer View Post
That's what I am hearing....that the base, bread and butter 528 will not be offered with a manual transmission and can only be had with a turbo 4....
For me this makes it an easy decision, I thought BMWs were the "ultimate driving machines" and now they don't even offer a stick anymore? WTF?
Stick is offered only in a 535i or 550i

Quote:
Originally Posted by tagheuer View Post
Why anyone would pick a 528 over an A6, which can be had with a 6 cylinder and stick, is beyond me...
Incorrect, no stick available in any A6 models sold in North America


Quote:
Originally Posted by tagheuer View Post
They are going back on everything they promised, i.e. they would always offer manual transmissions, they would never resort to "cheap power tricks" like turbocharging, i.e., they were always high and mighty over the Asian brands....
If you don't care for "cheap power tricks" like turbo charging, then the global automotive industry is not for you. Here's the alternative: Bicycle/Bus/Train
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Old 07-12-2011, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tagheuer View Post
That's what I am hearing....that the base, bread and butter 528 will not be offered with a manual transmission and can only be had with a turbo 4....

For me this makes it an easy decision, I thought BMWs were the "ultimate driving machines" and now they don't even offer a stick anymore? WTF?

Why anyone would pick a 528 over an A6, which can be had with a 6 cylinder and stick, is beyond me...

Please tell me this isn't true....ugh...

They are going back on everything they promised, i.e. they would always offer manual transmissions, they would never resort to "cheap power tricks" like turbocharging, i.e., they were always high and mighty over the Asian brands....

***********************************************
I don't get your argument.

As others have said, the A6 is not offered with a manual transmission with any model. Currently their "base", "bread and butter" model is also a turbo 4 - with FWD and CVT no less. And offering 40 less HP and a lot less torque as well.

While I love the BMW inline 6, I can understand completely why BMW has gone to this decision. You have 4, 6 and 8, in 240, 300 and 400 HP (and soon to come 560) HP models. Makes sense to me.

Also, there are 4 cylinder turbo cars in pretty much every luxury model line up in Europe. Including the E and A6. What's the big deal?
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Old 07-12-2011, 08:22 AM
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The Audi A6 is also an all turbo line-up for 2012. They released the 3.0 Turbo (which is a 535 equivalent) so far. Later they will release a 2.0T which will compete with 528. And an S8 with a 4.0T which will compete with the 4.4T in the 550i.
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Old 07-12-2011, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Stealth.Pilot View Post
The Audi A6 is also an all turbo line-up for 2012. They released the 3.0 Turbo (which is a 535 equivalent) so far. Later they will release a 2.0T which will compete with 528. And an S8 with a 4.0T which will compete with the 4.4T in the 550i.
FYI, the 3.0T is not a turbo car, it is supercharged.
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Old 07-12-2011, 08:31 AM
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FYI, the 3.0T is not a turbo car, it is supercharged.
Ahh. I was fooled by the T. Thanks for the correction.
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  #9  
Old 07-12-2011, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tagheuer View Post
They are going back on everything they promised, i.e. they would always offer manual transmissions, they would never resort to "cheap power tricks" like turbocharging, i.e., they were always high and mighty over the Asian brands....
They do still offer manual transmissions, just not with every single engine. Honda also said they would never resort to "more displacement" or turbocharging, but now they have both of those too. Personally, I'll only declare that hell has frozen over at BMW if they start making *V-6* engines rather than Inline-6. That's already been rumored for the next M3, some 3.3L V6 triple-turbo thing-a-ma-bob. WTF??
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  #10  
Old 07-12-2011, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by tagheuer View Post
That's what I am hearing....that the base, bread and butter 528 will not be offered with a manual transmission
This is not new. The 2011 F10 528i is not available in 6MT.
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  #11  
Old 07-12-2011, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by TJPark01 View Post
If you don't care for "cheap power tricks" like turbo charging, then the global automotive industry is not for you. Here's the alternative: Bicycle/Bus/Train
I think trains and buses have turbos too?
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Old 07-12-2011, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by SteVTEC View Post
They do still offer manual transmissions, just not with every single engine. Honda also said they would never resort to "more displacement" or turbocharging, but now they have both of those too. Personally, I'll only declare that hell has frozen over at BMW if they start making *V-6* engines rather than Inline-6. That's already been rumored for the next M3, some 3.3L V6 triple-turbo thing-a-ma-bob. WTF??
If it's anything like the GTR V6 I'm ok with that.
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Old 07-12-2011, 12:57 PM
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I think trains and buses have turbos too?
And you can get bikes with electric motors - a human/electric hybrid :P
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  #14  
Old 07-12-2011, 02:02 PM
tagheuer tagheuer is offline
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Originally Posted by TJPark01 View Post
Stick is offered only in a 535i or 550i


Incorrect, no stick available in any A6 models sold in North America



If you don't care for "cheap power tricks" like turbo charging, then the global automotive industry is not for you. Here's the alternative: Bicycle/Bus/Train
I was wrong on the stick in the Audi, but "cheap power tricks" was BMW's mantra, they said for many years they would never resort to such things.

I can't bear to pay $50k for a midsized German sedan with a 4 cylinder....

So many on this board for many many years have bagged on Audi for YEARS about how they would never buy a 4 cylinder sport sedan....for $40k...and I agree.

Now all those people are apparently fine with a 4 cylinder in a 5 series.

And no manual.

Two big steps closer to Lexus....it has EPS, which has much less feeling now...combined with slushbox and 4 cylinder....= geared toward fuel economy....
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Old 07-12-2011, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by tagheuer View Post
I was wrong on the stick in the Audi, but "cheap power tricks" was BMW's mantra, they said for many years they would never resort to such things.

I can't bear to pay $50k for a midsized German sedan with a 4 cylinder....

So many on this board for many many years have bagged on Audi for YEARS about how they would never buy a 4 cylinder sport sedan....for $40k...and I agree.

Now all those people are apparently fine with a 4 cylinder in a 5 series.

And no manual.

Two big steps closer to Lexus....it has EPS, which has much less feeling now...combined with slushbox and 4 cylinder....= geared toward fuel economy....
As long as there are choices it doesn't bother me one bit, I wouldn't by it but it makes sense to have one in the lineup since fuel economy has quickly gotten a grip on today's buyers in pretty much all segments. I think it would be better to introduce the 520d engine to the US though.
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Old 07-12-2011, 02:30 PM
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I read it twice.
This is a very funny discussion.
Nothing new is being put forward.
Or it must be that there will be a very wide choice in 5 series possibilities.
What can be wrong by that?
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Old 07-12-2011, 03:11 PM
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And what's even better: you can now cross-shop the 528 with a whole range of other cars, since its engine is no longer unique. Even the Hyundai Sonata is a competitor now.
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Old 07-12-2011, 03:28 PM
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Old 07-12-2011, 04:24 PM
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No market for a 528i manual.

Y'all folks gotta realise, there's a VERY small market for manual executive sedans. The proportion of manual cars on Bimmerfest and other forums is not representative of the market as a whole. It's like y'all don't acknowledge the existence of Accounting, Marketing, and profitability analysis.

Turbocharged cars are the future, with the stricter emissions and fuel consumption regulations coming into effect in multiple countries. Time to wake up and accept reality.

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Old 07-12-2011, 04:53 PM
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Open letter to BMW

Open letter to BMW
Dear BMW:
I am very concerned at the demise of your core values. First you install cup-holders that work in the new 5 series, now a new more powerful/efficient engine to replace the venerable N52? What's next a fridge in the glove box? Yes you're a public company and have recently taken market share from other luxury car makers; but that is no excuse to leave me, the "true" BMW fan left out in the cold. How dare you appeal to a broader audience and make money for your shareholders, you need to get your priorities in order.
My suggestion: You need to get back to your roots and build cars for a narrow group of enthusiasts, who will only drive manuals and subsequently take your engineering masterpieces and buy the base model and perform the following mods:cold air intake,springs,Dinan,Recaro seats, roll cage remove back seat. Also, make the cars smaller and lighter because I've been eating a lot of salads lately, and unlike the rest of the world I will fit in your cars. While your at it, ditch all automatics, all multilink front suspension on your cars going forward, and go back to struts,hydraulic steering, normally aspirated and real wheel drive only. I want the car to ride like a stagecoach and get single digit gas mileage. I like to "feel" the road.

PS - I also sent this letter to Porsche replace 5 series with Panamera and/or Cayenne.
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Old 07-12-2011, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by TJPark01 View Post
Open letter to BMW
Dear BMW:
I am very concerned at the demise of your core values. First you install cup-holders that work in the new 5 series, now a new more powerful/efficient engine to replace the venerable N52? What's next a fridge in the glove box? Yes you're a public company and have recently taken market share from other luxury car makers; but that is no excuse to leave me, the "true" BMW fan left out in the cold. How dare you appeal to a broader audience and make money for your shareholders, you need to get your priorities in order.
My suggestion: You need to get back to your roots and build cars for a narrow group of enthusiasts, who will only drive manuals and subsequently take your engineering masterpieces and buy the base model and perform the following mods:cold air intake,springs,Dinan,Recaro seats, roll cage remove back seat. Also, make the cars smaller and lighter because I've been eating a lot of salads lately, and unlike the rest of the world I will fit in your cars. While your at it, ditch all automatics, all multilink front suspension on your cars going forward, and go back to struts,hydraulic steering, normally aspirated and real wheel drive only. I want the car to ride like a stagecoach and get single digit gas mileage. I like to "feel" the road.

PS - I also sent this letter to Porsche replace 5 series with Panamera and/or Cayenne.
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Old 07-12-2011, 06:12 PM
schraderade schraderade is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJPark01 View Post
Open letter to BMW
Dear BMW:
I am very concerned at the demise of your core values. First you install cup-holders that work in the new 5 series, now a new more powerful/efficient engine to replace the venerable N52? What's next a fridge in the glove box? Yes you're a public company and have recently taken market share from other luxury car makers; but that is no excuse to leave me, the "true" BMW fan left out in the cold. How dare you appeal to a broader audience and make money for your shareholders, you need to get your priorities in order.
My suggestion: You need to get back to your roots and build cars for a narrow group of enthusiasts, who will only drive manuals and subsequently take your engineering masterpieces and buy the base model and perform the following mods:cold air intake,springs,Dinan,Recaro seats, roll cage remove back seat. Also, make the cars smaller and lighter because I've been eating a lot of salads lately, and unlike the rest of the world I will fit in your cars. While your at it, ditch all automatics, all multilink front suspension on your cars going forward, and go back to struts,hydraulic steering, normally aspirated and real wheel drive only. I want the car to ride like a stagecoach and get single digit gas mileage. I like to "feel" the road.

PS - I also sent this letter to Porsche replace 5 series with Panamera and/or Cayenne.
+60Bn, or roughly BMW's market cap today.

Perhaps the traditionalist enthusiasts know best how to run a luxury car company. Perhaps the F10 is a betrayal of everything the Ultimate Driving Machine stands for.
But that is not what BMW customers or investors are saying. The company posted all-time high earnings last quarter on top of record sales, and the stock recently hit its all time high.

And, oh yeah....they raised sales and earnings outlook for 2011 again this afternoon.

http://www.detnews.com/article/20110...2011-forecasts

Clearly, this company is DOOMED
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Old 07-12-2011, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by schraderade View Post
+60Bn, or roughly BMW's market cap today.

Perhaps the traditionalist enthusiasts know best how to run a luxury car company. Perhaps the F10 is a betrayal of everything the Ultimate Driving Machine stands for.
But that is not what BMW customers or investors are saying. The company posted all-time high earnings last quarter on top of record sales, and the stock recently hit its all time high.

And, oh yeah....they raised sales and earnings outlook for 2011 again this afternoon.

http://www.detnews.com/article/20110...2011-forecasts

Clearly, this company is DOOMED
Exactly. BMW, like every other company, needs to make money.

So far their strategy has played out very well over the past decade. BMW has made a profit every year even during the economic downturn.
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Old 07-12-2011, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by GeneArch View Post
Not being political, but You can thank our "administration"

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...mileage-rules/
The EU is about 3-4 years ahead of this (if not more) so in reality, this is all being driven by them, not the US.
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Old 07-12-2011, 08:42 PM
solstice solstice is offline
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Open letter to BMW
Dear BMW
I wanted to express how pleased I am with your new direction of turning away from history and the obscure enthusiasts. The truth is that BMW buyers prioritize your shareholders before the cars performance. Therefore it's a true pleasure to see adventures that hurts the bottom line like F1 ending and that the the new cars like the F10 are being cleansed from the awful sporty ride and heavy steering that turned off prosperous Mercedes and Lexus buyers. Hopefully you also have plans to close down the M-division that must lag in revenue compared to the volume products. The budget savings from all that unnecessary chassi and engine tuning can be better used for genius ideas like the " one leg air kick" to open the trunk. Last but not least, please make the cars heavier. Not a puny 5000 lbs, no go big, aim for 50000 lbs at least since I want to make sure I have mass on my side whatever I hit short of a freight train. Oh yeah, I almost forgot, can you also add a Sport++ and Sport+++ to dhp, seeing that Sport+++ will make sure my car feels and handles more like a BMW than a BMW.
Yours truly
The JOY brotherhood

Last edited by solstice; 07-12-2011 at 08:45 PM.
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