F10 550i has won me over

This week's rental car is a brand new (6.7mi on the odo) Hyundai Sonata and this car is no fun to drive! I miss my F10... oh, and Mrs. Dunderhi too.

Originally Posted by casper

After 3000 miles , I am used to my F10 550i and am enjoying the car, I no longer miss the E60, I am used to the steering and suspension. I can feel the BMW inside this car. Now I have to refrain from driving other cars so I can keep my F10 high.

Originally Posted by schraderade

I miss the nice feel of the pushbuttons in my old Motorola cellphone. My iPhone gives me feedback, but it's an audible click which is 100% synthesized as opposed to the mechanical satisfaction of pushing that nice solid button on my old phone.
I used to be able to flip open a phone, dial a number, and make a call. Now I have to hit the phone icon first, then hit the dialpad icon, then dial the number. With fake feedback.

If I were a purist I'd say...the Motorola was way more fun to make calls with. It had more feel, more direct feedback.
But the iPhone is a WAY better phone, not because it's more fun to dial a number with, but because it has a much greater dynamic range of features.

Isolation for the sake of isolation does nobody good, and no automaker would spend the R&D dollars to make that happen. The point of electronification is to create dynamic range. BMW may not have that down pat yet, in the same way that the first generation iPhones did not work perfectly. But the paradigm shift from mechanical to electrical is a powerful one and it's one that has many precedents over many high-performance use cases (from fighter jets and the space shuttle to Formula 1). In almost every single one of these I bet there were old-schoolers who didn't like the new feel of electronic technology. But in all of them the resistance evaporated over time because it became clear that the electronic approach provided better dynamic performance than the mechanical approach. And that opens up a different horizons of fun.

People don't buy the iphone because its a good phone, they buy it because its a great everything else, web browser, camera, google maps app store etc.

People buy BMWs for one of 2 reasons: performance and/or prestige. BMW's prestige was garnered through their performance. Once the performance is lost it is only a matter of a few cycles before their reputation will tarnish the brand. think of cadillac. Yes, once it was the greatest thing you could drive, but the crappy 80's and 90's turned it into something nobody seriously looks at anymore, no matter how much better they have become. They ruined their reputation. I loved my last BMW. I went with reputation when i bought the F10 550. I won't make the same mistake again.

Also, that video is a shame for the F10. Its g force was so low, prob all cadillacs could beat it, even the escalade!

It looks like there's an emerging market for restored E39s.

Originally Posted by markl53

Actually your wife's D200 is a very nice camera, not a consumer-grade DSLR. I have a D200 and D300. A lot of photography is not the equipment, but the "eye" of the person behind the camera. I agree, your shots of your car have been very interesting and way above average composition and technique actually. Also, the quality and capability of the lenses (and Nikon makes some very nice ones) is more important than the actual camera. Me? I'm an advanced amateur with a closet-full of top-grade Nikon gear. You might have a natural photog "eye" and not know it .

what no D3X?

Originally Posted by mikeriley

The bmw handles and rolls like an eighties GM car. Not tight at all.

I hope you are not being serious.

I don't have my F10 yet, so I can't comment how I will feel in the days after of me driving it from SC to NJ, but I can assure you, and everyone else, that the F10 does indeed have good handling, and is certainly way, way, way ahead of any 80's GM product, or the Escalade. People are getting a little too dramatic to prove a point. I mean, comparing the F10 to a Lexus or a Buick? Seriously?

Several comments have pointed out that xyz car does better, etc. Has anyone actually driven some of these cars that they are promoting? I've driven both the A6 and the E. The A6 is a great car with Audi really stepping their game up. The E was a complete snooze. And to anyone that drove the S at the Team USA event, if you want to talk about disconnected, that car is it.

And please don't lump me in as an F10 apologist. I heavily considered and very much liked the A6. The F10 seriously needs to lose some weight. The tire choices are poor. And even though it was quite some time ago, I remember the E39 being a better drivers car than the F10. I also know that the 3er has grown up in size and is more the heir apparent to the vaunted E39 crown. The 5er has "matured" for lack of a better word. You want balls to the wall driving performance? Get an M3. They were running some great lease deals on them, that I considered. Or an M5 if you have the coin. Or 1M. Or 135 with performance pack. The 1 is a great drivers car.

For me, I look forward to putting the F10 in Sport or Sport+ and really tearing it up, knowing full well that the 400 HP will bring a smile to my face.

my 550i with DHP in sport+ and the right tires right now was doing pretty well even though I only ran 3 20 mins sessions. (note mine is putting out more HP than stock) the thing that's lacking is not the suspension. When you push it hard it's actually stiffens up pretty well. Brakes are a whole different story. Stock pads and fluid just can't handle the weight and starts to lose it's bite. I was doing pretty well in sticking close to some M3's and actually pull hard on them on the straights

Originally Posted by alewifebp

I hope you are not being serious.

I don't have my F10 yet, so I can't comment how I will feel in the days after of me driving it from SC to NJ, but I can assure you, and everyone else, that the F10 does indeed have good handling, and is certainly way, way, way ahead of any 80's GM product, or the Escalade. People are getting a little too dramatic to prove a point. I mean, comparing the F10 to a Lexus or a Buick? Seriously?

Several comments have pointed out that xyz car does better, etc. Has anyone actually driven some of these cars that they are promoting? I've driven both the A6 and the E. The A6 is a great car with Audi really stepping their game up. The E was a complete snooze. And to anyone that drove the S at the Team USA event, if you want to talk about disconnected, that car is it.

And please don't lump me in as an F10 apologist. I heavily considered and very much liked the A6. The F10 seriously needs to lose some weight. The tire choices are poor. And even though it was quite some time ago, I remember the E39 being a better drivers car than the F10. I also know that the 3er has grown up in size and is more the heir apparent to the vaunted E39 crown. The 5er has "matured" for lack of a better word. You want balls to the wall driving performance? Get an M3. They were running some great lease deals on them, that I considered. Or an M5 if you have the coin. Or 1M. Or 135 with performance pack. The 1 is a great drivers car.

For me, I look forward to putting the F10 in Sport or Sport+ and really tearing it up, knowing full well that the 400 HP will bring a smile to my face.

Yes, some extreme comparisons can and have been made. But, its not without merit. The f10 sways quite a bit in cornering and does not perform at all like BMW of old. Been a very big BMW fan for years, 3rd one in 3 years, started with E60 535 sport, M3 vert, and now 550 msport. This thing handles like a pig. And most importantly, I don't appreciate dropping over 80K on a car and having to change the tires. Never happened to me before with BMW. People have to face the reality, sure the new F10 is a nicer sportier lexus, great interior, nice styling, but not a true drivers car anymore. its much more for possers now. Yes I have one, but it was a mistake.

Originally Posted by mikeriley

Yes, some extreme comparisons can and have been made. But, its not without merit. The f10 sways quite a bit in cornering and does not perform at all like BMW of old. Been a very big BMW fan for years, 3rd one in 3 years, started with E60 535 sport, M3 vert, and now 550 msport. This thing handles like a pig. And most importantly, I don't appreciate dropping over 80K on a car and having to change the tires. Never happened to me before with BMW. People have to face the reality, sure the new F10 is a nicer sportier lexus, great interior, nice styling, but not a true drivers car anymore. its much more for possers now. Yes I have one, but it was a mistake.

Um. This is reality:

http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...-mercedes.html

People are facing up to it by buying the car in record numbers. That's a lotta posers to be hating :-)

You could always try selling your 550i and buying that old fashioned roadfeel you love. There will be plenty of cash left over for aftermarket tuning to get that sweet beast just the way you like it.

Originally Posted by alewifebp

I hope you are not being serious.

I don't have my F10 yet, so I can't comment how I will feel in the days after of me driving it from SC to NJ, but I can assure you, and everyone else, that the F10 does indeed have good handling, and is certainly way, way, way ahead of any 80's GM product, or the Escalade. People are getting a little too dramatic to prove a point. I mean, comparing the F10 to a Lexus or a Buick? Seriously?

Several comments have pointed out that xyz car does better, etc. Has anyone actually driven some of these cars that they are promoting? I've driven both the A6 and the E. The A6 is a great car with Audi really stepping their game up. The E was a complete snooze. And to anyone that drove the S at the Team USA event, if you want to talk about disconnected, that car is it.

And please don't lump me in as an F10 apologist. I heavily considered and very much liked the A6. The F10 seriously needs to lose some weight. The tire choices are poor. And even though it was quite some time ago, I remember the E39 being a better drivers car than the F10. I also know that the 3er has grown up in size and is more the heir apparent to the vaunted E39 crown. The 5er has "matured" for lack of a better word. You want balls to the wall driving performance? Get an M3. They were running some great lease deals on them, that I considered. Or an M5 if you have the coin. Or 1M. Or 135 with performance pack. The 1 is a great drivers car.

For me, I look forward to putting the F10 in Sport or Sport+ and really tearing it up, knowing full well that the 400 HP will bring a smile to my face.

Please do NOT worry, I got out of my 2010 M3 E90 into the 550i M Sport and after getting used to it I am very pleased, it goes like stink and handles very well Once you get to know it's limits. as a DD it is way better IMO than the M3 for me anyway.

Originally Posted by mikeriley

Yes, some extreme comparisons can and have been made. But, its not without merit. The f10 sways quite a bit in cornering and does not perform at all like BMW of old. Been a very big BMW fan for years, 3rd one in 3 years, started with E60 535 sport, M3 vert, and now 550 msport. This thing handles like a pig. And most importantly, I don't appreciate dropping over 80K on a car and having to change the tires. Never happened to me before with BMW. People have to face the reality, sure the new F10 is a nicer sportier lexus, great interior, nice styling, but not a true drivers car anymore. its much more for possers now. Yes I have one, but it was a mistake.

great job poseur.. LOL

Originally Posted by schraderade

Fun is plenty important. But what is fun sport driving for a 1% enthusiast is very different from what is fun sport driving for the 99% owner demographic. Guess who BMW is going to listen to

Mike, I've seen the videos. I think you are missing the point. Also, the audi is not smoking the F10...as others have pointed out the differences are marginal. The point is, BMW users spend less than 1% of their time on tracks so the videos are irrelevant (beyond their marketing vaue) for 99% of BMW driving. The car is designed to address the dynamic range of the 99% and not the 1%. This doesn't make it a Lexus. That 99% has different performance parameters and BMW has optimized for performance in that driving range. It means using electronics to create adjustable isolation so that drivers who don't want a bone jarring ride through the city can tune up isolation and dampness.

BMW is trying to give drivers a set of golf clubs instead of a single, well tuned 3 wood. That requires electronics. I think that makes it a better car. Plenty of options out there for drivers who want static road feel and mechanical handling, but I don't begrudge BMW for broadening it's engineering goals to include global preferences, environmental sensitivity, etc. The drive feels way better and better tailored to me than the E60.

There is nothing new with this discussion btw. Authors still argue vehemently that the typewriter provides better feel than a word processor. And the pen provides better feel than a typewriter. That's the enthusiast's prerogative, but in the real world it's pretty irrelevant! People vote with their pocketbooks.

Good points and I agree.
Markets drive car manufacture ( sad for some).

Originally Posted by mikeriley

Yes, some extreme comparisons can and have been made. But, its not without merit. The f10 sways quite a bit in cornering and does not perform at all like BMW of old. Been a very big BMW fan for years, 3rd one in 3 years, started with E60 535 sport, M3 vert, and now 550 msport. This thing handles like a pig. And most importantly, I don't appreciate dropping over 80K on a car and having to change the tires. Never happened to me before with BMW. People have to face the reality, sure the new F10 is a nicer sportier lexus, great interior, nice styling, but not a true drivers car anymore. its much more for possers now. Yes I have one, but it was a mistake.

How can you continue to drive something that "handles like a pig"?? Mistakes can be corrected, why not sell it, trade it in and buy something else. I am just the opposite, I came from a Lexus, and my 550 gives me a bigger smile every time I get in.

It's been stated many times; if you like the old 7 then you will like the new 5. I suspect the same will true for the old 5 and the new 3. Then again the current 3 owners will probably complain that the new 3 feels like an E60. For the "true 5" drivers out there, just get a new 3 and just be happy that it isn't front wheel drive.


As a happy F10 owner myself, I knew the car wasn't without flaws and I knew that when I test drove it. Unlike many here, I had a plan for improvements before I bought the car. The lightweight wheels and max performance non-rft tires transformed the way the car handles everyday potholes and how the car handles at the limits (which are much higher now). Adding Dinan was a bit of overkill, but it's an easy way to make 4450lbs feel lighter.

Originally Posted by dunderhi

The lightweight wheels and max performance non-rft tires transformed the way the car handles everyday potholes and how the car handles at the limits (which are much higher now).

Nice. I've been thinking about switching wheels...what differences did you feel in the handling after you did yours? How much of it was wheels vs tires?

Originally Posted by schraderade

Nice. I've been thinking about switching wheels...what differences did you feel in the handling after you did yours? How much of it was wheels vs tires?

I could have bought a new Hyundai for what I spent on upgraded wheels & tires for my cars this year. So, my F10 set-up is a bit more drastic than most - losing nearly 18lbs per corner (my winter set-up is even lighter). I did the swap at the same time, but here's how I think it should break down:

Suppleness - tires
Potholes - both (softer rubber allows for tire deflection, while lighter wheels helps the suspension deflect a lighter load)
Max Grip - tires
Responsiveness - both (lighter set-up changes direction easier)
Fuel Economy - both (oops, now you know my secret)

Using an online 0-60 calculator, my wheels/tires should give me only 0.1 sec in 0-60 (from 4.5sec to 4.4sec) This is assuming the stickier rubber isn't needed to help the xDrive hook-up. Of course, Dinan gives me 0.6 sec (for 4.4sec to 3.8sec). So tires & wheels really matter more in the ride and handling departments vice all out acceleration.

So, if you are looking for a better ride, I would say the tires would give you the most bang for the buck. If you want to go with wheels too, please beware of superlight cast wheels (or flow formed/roll forged) that have similiar weights to forged wheels, they will not have the same strength as forged wheels. A decent set of cast wheel should be a few pounds heavier than a set forged wheels, but they would still be much lighter than the stock BMW rims.

Needsdecaf posted this article awhile back:


After reading many posts from unhappy F10 owners, I feel bad that they are driving around on solid rubber tires and unnecessarily heavy wheels. Shame on BMW!

Originally Posted by SANguru

what no D3X?

Full frame would be nice, more like a D700. Like I said, the camera body goes so far before there's a pretty steep payback curve for features. I have quite a nice glass collection though and this is what helps me get some high quality images.

Originally Posted by dunderhi

So, if you are looking for a better ride, I would say the tires would give you the most bang for the buck. If you want to go with wheels too, please beware of superlight cast wheels (or flow formed/roll forged) that have similiar weights to forged wheels, they will not have the same strength as forged wheels. A decent set of cast wheel should be a few pounds heavier than a set forged wheels, but they would still be much lighter than the stock BMW rims.

Hey thanks. This is very thoughtful analysis. I may have to shift priorities away from wheels towards tires to start...!

Originally Posted by dunderhi

Using an online 0-60 calculator, my wheels/tires should give me only 0.1 sec in 0-60 (from 4.5sec to 4.4sec) This is assuming the stickier rubber isn't needed to help the xDrive hook-up. Of course, Dinan gives me 0.6 sec (for 4.4sec to 3.8sec).


!

3.8 too 60, In Your dreams.

Originally Posted by johnbmw6

3.8 too 60, In Your dreams.

You can do the math yourself, or cheat like me and use an online calulators to find the relative differences.

1. BMW 550i xDrive tested by Autoweek: 0-60 4.5 sec.

2. BBS RGR's/Michelin PSS shaved 71.2lbs of unsprung rotational weight: 0-60 4.4 sec

3. Dinan S1 max gains 96hp/103tq - My car (495hp/573tq/4448lbs/AWD/8spd Auto) has very similar specs to the Panamera Turbo w/ Chrono Sport (500hp/568tq/4406lbs/AWD/7spd DSG) that has been tested at 0-60 in 3.3sec. He has launch control which is worth 0.2 sec accrding to C&D. I'll give him 0.3-0.5 sec for the DSG: 0-60 3.8-4.0 sec

Originally Posted by dunderhi

You can do the math yourself, or cheat like me and use an online calulators to find the relative differences.

1. BMW 550i xDrive tested by Autoweek: 0-60 4.5 sec.

2. BBS RGR's/Michelin PSS shaved 71.2lbs of unsprung rotational weight: 0-60 4.4 sec

3. Dinan S1 max gains 96hp/103tq - My car (495hp/573tq/4448lbs/AWD/8spd Auto) has very similar specs to the Panamera Turbo w/ Chrono Sport (500hp/568tq/4406lbs/AWD/7spd DSG) that has been tested at 0-60 in 3.3sec. He has launch control which is worth 0.2 sec accrding to C&D. I'll give him 0.3-0.5 sec for the DSG: 0-60 3.8-4.0 sec

AMAZING