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E46 (1999 - 2006)
The fourth generation 3 Series (E46 chassis) was introduced in 1999 and set the standard for engineering and performance during it's years of production including being named to Car & Driver's 10 best list every one of those years! ! -- View the E46 Wiki

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  #1  
Old 07-26-2011, 04:30 AM
elliot griffin elliot griffin is offline
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Mein Auto: 2004 325i
Rough idle when started "cold"

2004 325i 88,000 miles

The engine idles rough when started "cold", meaning after being off for 10+ hours. Note "cold" right now in Florida is 80F.

Last friday the car misfired on several cylinders, stalled during initial acceleration (fault codes read for misfires and engine time out). Cleaned the ICV and cleared codes, no more codes, but rough idle at cold start issue persists.

Background:
-March 2010 (72K), PCV hose fouled and ruptured, intake fouled, plugs and one coil fouled. Dealership diagnosed and repaired. Seemed to operate okay until a couple months ago.
-84K read code for pre cat O2 sensor. I didn't do anything about it, just started researching online
-June 2011 (87K) overheated, replaced leaking pump and belt. overheated again, replaced thermostat (even though it didn't seem stuck). overheated again, replaced temp sensor.
-June 2011 (87K) accelerating from stop engine hesitated, pre cat 02 sensor and cyl 6 misfire appeared, rough idle at cold start first noted. Took car to indy shop for DME reprogram. Shop noted oil on PCV, bosch plugs, and cracked coolant cap.
-June 2011 (87K) Dealer replaced PCV (after much debate about doing warranty work without charge), rough idle at cold start still present, but no codes
-July 2011 (87K), I put in NGK plugs, new Bosch pre cat O2 sensors, new coolant cap, inspected DISA, inspected inlet hoses for cracks

I'm concerned that all of these changes may have improved the situation, but not addressed the root cause of the rough idle. Replacing the PCV and cleaning the ICV seemed to help the most. Does anyone know what might be contributing to this condition?
Does anyone know how to test the air temperature sensor (part #3 on http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...&hg=11&fg=40)?

Thanks!!!
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  #2  
Old 07-27-2011, 05:12 PM
elliot griffin elliot griffin is offline
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More misfires

Yesterday the SES light appeared, I read fault codes for misfires on cylinders 4&6.
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  #3  
Old 07-27-2011, 06:56 PM
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Swap coil packs for cylinder 4 and 6 to 1 and 2 or any other cylinders. See if the codes follow. If they do, you have bad coil packs. If not could be something as simple as spark plugs.
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  #4  
Old 07-27-2011, 07:13 PM
elliot griffin elliot griffin is offline
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rough idle cold start - potential fixes

Thank you for the recommendation. I'll give it a try this weekend and post results. I just read some success stories involving Seafoaming the secondary air pump, but I'll try your recommendation first. Current spark plugs are only a couple weeks old.

http://www.e46fanatics.com/forum/sho...+secondary+air
http://motorvate.ca/bmw/BMW_Secondar...em_Failure.pdf

Last edited by elliot griffin; 07-28-2011 at 10:26 AM. Reason: added references
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  #5  
Old 07-29-2011, 04:37 AM
bem328i bem328i is offline
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rough idle

Does the idle return to normal after a hard push of the peddle, momentarily increase of rpm? If so your oil seperator is bad. I forgot the technical terminalogy for it.

Last edited by bem328i; 07-29-2011 at 04:38 AM.
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  #6  
Old 07-29-2011, 03:25 PM
elliot griffin elliot griffin is offline
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Thank you for the suggestion! I'll give it a try.
Yesterday I read a fault code for cyl#5 misfire. I haven't reset the codes yet, since the dealership replaced the oil separator/CCV twice in the last 17 months.
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  #7  
Old 07-30-2011, 08:01 AM
elliot griffin elliot griffin is offline
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cold start rough idle

I just switched coils 4/5/6 and 1/2/3 and cleared fault codes. Started car, still idled rough, no codes. Within 10 seconds of starting, I accelerated to see if idle smoothed out, but it didn't seem to. I turned off the engine within 20 seconds to avoid warming it up too much.

I looked around the secondary air system and noted the check valve had caked up oil/dirt where it connects to exhaust manifold. I removed the valve (item 17) and sprayed carb cleaner into engine side, alot of rust colored liquid came out. I read a string on 46fanatics about a similar stuck valve problem, though not associated with cold start rough idle. I tried applying 120psi compressed air to engine side of valve, and it didn't allow any flow and seemed stuck. I noticed I have the obsolete part (11727523530) and there is a new version (11727553066). I am going to order a new 11727553066 for $100 online, will update this when I put it in.

I am not confident yet that this problem will be solved by replacing the check valve. I want to test the entire secondary air system because the outlet of the pump (item 1) didn't seem to be flowing when I started the car the second time, which was almost a cold start. I'm still looking for a good diy guide for troubleshooting the SAS on this specific engine. The best one I found so far is attached.
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  #8  
Old 08-14-2011, 08:12 AM
elliot griffin elliot griffin is offline
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After installing the new secondary air check valve (11727553006) on Aug 5, the cold start rough idle persists, and fault codes for misfires of cylinders 3-6 were stored during the past week of daily driving. I verified the secondary air pump turned on during a cold start.

I forgot to mention in the initial post that in June 2011 the dealer did verify the MAF was okay, so I haven't suspected it.

I don't have any brilliant ideas on how to proceed, but I could try the following:
-check the PCV replacement work the dealership did (I noticed they only replaced 2 of 5 related hoses)
-inspect and clean the intake manifold and throttle body, replacing gaskets along the way (profile, throttle body, ICV, etc.)
-inspect for internal coolant leaks (I noticed since I replaced cooling components in June, I have to add a few ounces of coolant each week, I didn't find any external leaks when I did a pressure test)
-verify all temperature sensors operate correctly, or replace IAT and ECT (I haven't seen a fault code for these sensors, so I don't really suspect them, but how do I know they are operating correctly?)
-verify DISA operation (no looseness of valve "plate" and it doesn't rattle with engine running, but how do I know it's operating correctly?)
-verify camshaft position sensor operation (I haven't seen a fault code related to these sensors, so I don't really suspect them, but how do I know they are operating correctly?)
-replace VANOS seals (seems like a bit of work for something that may not be the culprit)

Any thoughts???

Last edited by elliot griffin; 08-14-2011 at 11:41 AM. Reason: clarification
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  #9  
Old 08-19-2011, 07:27 AM
elliot griffin elliot griffin is offline
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Cold start rough idle

I did a few tests to look for signs of a coolant leaking into the intake or oil:
-Noted car's current oil is brownish in color, but appears to have similar density and viscosity to new oil, thought admitedly I have no expertise here
-Placed a red hot piece of metal in the oil, expecting oil would sizzle if water was present. I didn't notice any sizzling, but noticed the car's current oil ignited, while new oil didn't ignite. I repeated the test and got the same result.
-Smelled the exhaust during a cold start. It smelled a little bit sweet, but my sense of smell isn't the best to begin with. The exhaust had significant moisture in it.
-Looked for excess moisture in the tailpipe while idling after cold start. There was a small amount of grayish water inside the end of the pipe, but not dripping out.

I was hoping to attach videos of my tests, but it doesn't look like this site supports video attachments.
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  #10  
Old 08-21-2011, 04:58 PM
elliot griffin elliot griffin is offline
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Mein Auto: 2004 325i
Cold start rough idle

this weekend i did the following things, but rough idle and misfires continue:

-completely disassembled intake manifold, cleaned it, and replaced profile gaskets, throttle body gasket, ICV gasket, and o-rings for the small upper manifold
-replaced PCV/oil separator and all hoses. the rubber hose that connects between the bottom of the manifold and the brake system was damaged by oil
-replaced 3 rubber plugs on the manifold which were loose and beginning to crack
-cleaned injectors and replaced lower o-rings
-with intake manifold off, and #5 spark plug out, I pressurized the cooling system, looked inside intakes of and #5 chamber of engine block for coolant and didn't see any, looked at heater hoses and other cooling components for damage and leaks but didn't see any
-replaced the ECT sensor, noticed that the 2004 doesn't have a IAT sensor, it's plugged
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  #11  
Old 08-21-2011, 07:51 PM
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smolck smolck is online now
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Well, you have done a lot of work, that is for sure. I'd do a full compression test and see if the overheating did any head gasket damage. If not I would start looking at all things fuel air related like MAF, fuel filter, fuel pressure, even VANOS.
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  #12  
Old 08-22-2011, 03:55 AM
elliot griffin elliot griffin is offline
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Do you mean a full leak down test? Do you know of a DIY procedure and a decent tester (i.e. OTC, longacre, etc.)? Thanks
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  #13  
Old 08-22-2011, 03:55 AM
elliot griffin elliot griffin is offline
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Location: Orlando
 
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Do you mean a full leak down test? Do you know of a DIY procedure and a decent tester (i.e. OTC, longacre, etc.)? Thanks
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