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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #251  
Old 08-15-2011, 11:29 AM
Nobrandfanboy Nobrandfanboy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by car-fan View Post
Dude put your four rings on a coat hanger...and hang them outside this forum. An exhaust modification in some cases - especially on an FI car can make a difference. Furthermore an exhaust modification, no matter how subtle a change in performance and/or in your mind is not stock...try telling your dealer that when your lease is up. I'm not an Audi hater but you keep hovering around these forums with your rhetoric - lest you be defined a Troll?


second the numbers speak for themselves ...you'd have to call Uncle Bentley to match the torque any "lightly tuned" N63 engined vehicle puts up... even stock for stock there isn't a current Audi that can compete torque wise ....you know the saying right....

495hp/573 ft lbs vs. 333/325 = 162hp and 248ft lbs difference those are the numbers -

last I checked the S4 isn't in this class anyway, try visiting the 3 Series forums with your nonsense. I'm sure the N54/N55 boys have nothing but love for you
This proves you have no clue! Seriously so what if your car has that much Torque. How much torque does a truck have? Lots more and it doesn't go faster. Your CUV weighs 500-600lbs more so it needs the Torque just to get moving. Just because you have torque doesn't mean your car is faster. Everything else plays into the equation. If it was just about the Torque and hp numbers than explain the following for me.
Stock vs stock your 550GT has more hp and Torque also but can you explain why it is still slower than the S4 than?

I wasn't the person here who first said I beat a 550GT as your the person who brought up that you raced and beat an S4. So what, you can bring it up and I can't question your story? All I am saying is the numbers do solidify your account of the race if there was one.

Last edited by Nobrandfanboy; 08-15-2011 at 11:33 AM.
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  #252  
Old 08-15-2011, 12:03 PM
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car-fan car-fan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobrandfanboy View Post
This proves you have no clue! Seriously so what if your car has that much Torque. How much torque does a truck have? Lots more and it doesn't go faster. Your CUV weighs 500-600lbs more so it needs the Torque just to get moving. Just because you have torque doesn't mean your car is faster. Everything else plays into the equation. If it was just about the Torque and hp numbers than explain the following for me.
Stock vs stock your 550GT has more hp and Torque also but can you explain why it is still slower than the S4 than?

I wasn't the person here who first said I beat a 550GT as your the person who brought up that you raced and beat an S4. So what, you can bring it up and I can't question your story? All I am saying is the numbers do solidify your account of the race if there was one.
Okay, I see where your going we aren't talking about low rev diesel engines here are we? I'm just giving you facts, I'm not going to derail this thread any further. Just have the figures I posted here in the back of your head when you contemplate running against an F10, F07 or even the latest rev X6/X5 with the N63 - check out bimmer boost when you get a chance lots of facts for you there as well.

I'm quite a bit heavier than any B8 variant. I think the lowest times per Inside Line and Car and Driver were about 5.1 ft 0-60 for the GT. Stock from a dig I think the S4 may be a bit faster, due to AWD. That being said, I haven't seen any head up comparisons for an s4 vs. F10/F07 with XDrive - likely due to the class difference. But I think they might be very close. But this is the real world kid --- those magazine numbers aren't the final answer.

You probably read it here before... these cars take very, very, well to tunes. Stock compared to now is no comparison.. the little 4.4. that could

Come on down to Sofla. I'd love to have you explain to your friends, family, business associates, and/or casual acquaintances why you got pulled by what you consider a CUV. Hell they can even ride with me, so they can comfortably watch a film or a replay of me pulling you on the rear monitors
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Last edited by car-fan; 08-15-2011 at 12:10 PM.
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  #253  
Old 08-15-2011, 12:21 PM
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Capobranco Capobranco is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobBigMan View Post
... then you drive it and you notices things like brake, steering, throttle feel all are near perfect but it's only when you really start to throw it into some corners at speed do you REALLY understand what makes them different...
An alternative point of view....

"While the Porsche lacks the BMW's grunt, its greater body control and more capable handling would likely make it faster around a track. Still, the BMW surprised us because it's no less engaging than the Porsche. Part of that, though is a weakness of the Panamera, which has a minor case of Nissan GT-R Syndrome. This is the phenomenon that afflicts incredible performance cars boasting uncanny 0-to-60-mph sprints, lateral grip, and lap times, yet failing to engage the driver the way we expect from a sports car. In the Panamera, the steering lacks the satisfying feedback cherished in Boxsters and 911s. The wheel still offers good feel, but the heavy weight masks some of the communication""

Automobile Magazine May 14, 2010 (PanameraS v. BMW 550iGT)

I should note others have made similar comments...jus' sayin'

BTW Re;GT AutoMag's comment mirrors my experience in the wild.
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  #254  
Old 08-15-2011, 12:28 PM
Nobrandfanboy Nobrandfanboy is offline
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Originally Posted by car-fan View Post


Okay, I see where your going we aren't talking about low rev diesel engines here are we? I'm just giving you facts, I'm not going to derail this thread any further. Just have the figures I posted here in the back of your head when you contemplate running against an F10, F07 or even the latest rev X6/X5 with the N63 - check out bimmer boost when you get a chance lots of facts for you there as well.

I'm quite a bit heavier than any B8 variant. I think the lowest times per Inside Line and Car and Driver were about 5.1 ft 0-60 for the GT. Stock from a dig I think the S4 may be a bit faster, due to AWD. That being said, I haven't seen any head up comparisons for an s4 vs. F10/F07 with XDrive - likely due to the class difference. But I think they might be very close. But this is the real world kid --- those magazine numbers aren't the final answer.

You probably read it here before... these cars take very, very, well to tunes. Stock compared to now is no comparison.. the little 4.4. that could

Come on down to Sofla. I'd love to have you explain to your friends, family, business associates, and/or casual acquaintances why you got pulled by what you consider a CUV. Hell they can even ride with me, so they can comfortably watch a film or a replay of me pulling you on the rear monitors
Funny how you still say the F07 will lay the B8 in the dust yet still haven't answered my question above for one. Second you think the 4.4 is the only car that takes very well to a tune? Both platforms are FI and both cars take well to a tune so still can't see how your F07 can dust the S4. Still haven't provided me any numbers while I have indicated to you that a tunes S4 has a timeslip for 12.sec car. So you can keep making your claim all you want but unless you have something to back it up then you are just blah blah blah.
Seriously even with the numbers I have provided real world and reviews you don't see me going around saying that my S4 is going to dust your CUV. So you can make it look like you are taking the high road and call me a troll all you want but you are the one making claims without any proof.
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  #255  
Old 08-15-2011, 12:35 PM
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car-fan car-fan is offline
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Originally Posted by Nobrandfanboy View Post
Funny how you still say the F07 will lay the B8 in the dust yet still haven't answered my question above for one. Second you think the 4.4 is the only car that takes very well to a tune? Both platforms are FI and both cars take well to a tune so still can't see how your F07 can dust the S4. Still haven't provided me any numbers while I have indicated to you that a tunes S4 has a timeslip for 12.sec car. So you can keep making your claim all you want but unless you have something to back it up then you are just blah blah blah.
Seriously even with the numbers I have provided real world and reviews you don't see me going around saying that my S4 is going to dust your CUV. So you can make it look like you are taking the high road and call me a troll all you want but you are the one making claims without any proof.
Really, Seriously, I say it because its true. don't spill your Corn Flakes now Come see us when your engine grows up

Here is an X6 in the 12's - mind you the X6 is heavier than my car. Now have a nap

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Last edited by car-fan; 08-15-2011 at 12:41 PM.
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  #256  
Old 08-15-2011, 12:43 PM
BobBigMan BobBigMan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capobranco View Post
An alternative point of view....

"While the Porsche lacks the BMW's grunt, its greater body control and more capable handling would likely make it faster around a track. Still, the BMW surprised us because it's no less engaging than the Porsche. Part of that, though is a weakness of the Panamera, which has a minor case of Nissan GT-R Syndrome. This is the phenomenon that afflicts incredible performance cars boasting uncanny 0-to-60-mph sprints, lateral grip, and lap times, yet failing to engage the driver the way we expect from a sports car. In the Panamera, the steering lacks the satisfying feedback cherished in Boxsters and 911s. The wheel still offers good feel, but the heavy weight masks some of the communication""

Automobile Magazine May 14, 2010 (PanameraS v. BMW 550iGT)

I should note others have made similar comments...jus' sayin'

BTW Re;GT AutoMag's comment mirrors my experience in the wild.
I would agree with that opinion, compared to a Boxster or 911 it is inferior but then again the steering in those two have feel that are unrivalled by any other 'assisted' steering system in the world. The Panamera is superior to any BMW, Audi or Mercedes I have ever experienced.
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  #257  
Old 08-15-2011, 01:55 PM
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Capobranco Capobranco is offline
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Originally Posted by BobBigMan View Post
I would agree with that opinion, compared to a Boxster or 911 it is inferior but then again the steering in those two have feel that are unrivalled by any other 'assisted' steering system in the world. The Panamera is superior to any BMW, Audi or Mercedes I have ever experienced.
Your original statement was without qualification...thank you for the clarification.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobBigMan View Post
... then you drive it and you notices things like brake, steering, throttle feel all are near perfect but it's only when you really start to throw it into some corners at speed do you REALLY understand what makes them different...
Why quibble....trees in a forest....

The Forest....

I would agree with you that the Panamera offers an edge, but the BMW is not in another universe, as you insinuate, the difference is a matter of degree. Indeed, AutoMag was surprised, but had to admit, that the BMW's handling was engaging. From reading your posts - I have the feeling you might have only driven a base 5 GT with 18" wheels. As a former 911 Turbo driver - I assure you that the AutoMag's statement is true. Equipped with 20 inch wheels, performance summer tires, adaptive handing, and sport pack, my BMW 550i GT is indeed a most engaging ride. Moreover, I am in total accord with AutoMag's opinion regarding the superior "grunt" of BMW's twin turbo engine that packs substantial more torque than the Porsche.

In the wild - a few Panamera drivers have regarded me as easy pickins...within the limits of my rural setting and safety...I promise you my GT has acquitted itself with distinction. BMW seems to have figured out how to defy the laws of physics - BMW knows how to make large vehicles perform dynamically. The GT is a large car that drives small.

Your experience is not my reality.

(Obviously, my comments are based on my GT v. Panamera but a 550i would yield a similar result given the 550i and GT are close dynamically.)
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Last edited by Capobranco; 08-15-2011 at 02:18 PM.
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  #258  
Old 08-15-2011, 02:34 PM
Nobrandfanboy Nobrandfanboy is offline
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Originally Posted by car-fan View Post
Really, Seriously, I say it because its true. don't spill your Corn Flakes now Come see us when your engine grows up

Here is an X6 in the 12's - mind you the X6 is heavier than my car. Now have a nap

Not one run was in the 12s all runs was in 13.05sec+. The X6 is only 90lbs heavier than your car. Still don't see any evidence your car can run 12.069 or better to beat a tuned S4. LOL Keep trying and coming with the insults because I love when owners of BMW costing $20,000+ more think that they can compete with a Panamera $20,000+ more but thinks no other can can compete with theres. I guess this is what they mean when people think BMW owners are self centered.
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  #259  
Old 08-15-2011, 02:35 PM
BobBigMan BobBigMan is offline
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The 5GT I drove did have 20" and the adaptive suspension but was only a 530d because at that time it was the only example available to them (the dealer), to me it drove more like a 7 series than a 5 series and before you ask I've yet to see a 7 series with less than 19" and most here come on 20" like the one I drove, maybe there is a difference in steering system between RWD and xDrive but I can't concur with your opinion or that of AutoMag because I didn't find it's steering close to that of the Panamera and nor did I find the F10 535i I recently drove to be closed to the Porsche, by the way it wore the slightly more forgiving 19".

If you knew Northern Ireland you would know how poor the road surface can be, it's on these roads where I find Porsche's steering feel unrivalled by similar rivalling brands like BMW, Audi or Mercedes, the same is true of the control of the suspension. No doubt you are paying for these difference and some may feel it's too small of a difference to justify the expense but the fact Porsche can sell every car they make and more besides show that plenty out there also feel like myself.

I keep coming back to one thought that if Porsche offered me a 5 series rival I would probably chose it over all the others, even if it were slower and ill-equipped.

Last edited by BobBigMan; 08-15-2011 at 02:39 PM.
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  #260  
Old 08-15-2011, 03:57 PM
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Capobranco Capobranco is offline
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Originally Posted by BobBigMan View Post
The 5GT I drove did have 20" and the adaptive suspension but was only a 530d because at that time it was the only example available to them (the dealer), to me it drove more like a 7 series than a 5 series and before you ask I've yet to see a 7 series with less than 19" and most here come on 20" like the one I drove, maybe there is a difference in steering system between RWD and xDrive but I can't concur with your opinion or that of AutoMag because I didn't find it's steering close to that of the Panamera and nor did I find the F10 535i I recently drove to be closed to the Porsche, by the way it wore the slightly more forgiving 19".
Respectfully, you can't concur, because you drove a different car. I have never driven a 530d but I suspect my 550i GT with 20 inch staggered wheels and tires, adaptive handling, sport pack, and 400HP V8 is a very different animal. Moreover, although the GT is based on 7 series architecture, the GT's ride in sport mode is substantially firmer than a 7 series, and the GT's handling feels more button down. In addition, I elected to forgo the electric steering option and I find the standard BMW steering to offer wonderful feel and responsiveness - pure joy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobBigMan View Post
If you knew Northern Ireland you would know how poor the road surface can be, it's on these roads where I find Porsche's steering feel unrivalled by similar rivalling brands like BMW, Audi or Mercedes, the same is true of the control of the suspension. No doubt you are paying for these difference and some may feel it's too small of a difference to justify the expense but the fact Porsche can sell every car they make and more besides show that plenty out there also feel like myself.
Have you ever driven a 911 on a road with an uneven surface? 911s have a very stiff suspension, and bump steer has always been part of the 911 experience - I know all too well. A 911 is fun but I would never describe a 911s ride, or a Panamera's, as being compliant. As to Porsche sales, Porsche sports cars have struggled - especially the 911. Sales increases this year are largely due to the introduction of the new Cayenne in China. Indeed, the last time I checked, 911s were coming with equipped with very substantial discounts.

Quote:
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I keep coming back to one thought that if Porsche offered me a 5 series rival I would probably chose it over all the others, even if it were slower and ill-equipped.




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Last edited by Capobranco; 08-15-2011 at 05:20 PM.
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  #261  
Old 08-15-2011, 07:53 PM
bm323 bm323 is offline
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Originally Posted by BobBigMan View Post
The Cayenne will remain in the family (switching over to the wife), this will be an additional car so whilst I could afford a Panamera if it was to replace the Cayenne I can't afford to have both. Plus four seats isn't an option to me otherwise I would be condifering the A7 or CLS as well.
Does it not mean that in your view, the A6/F10/E class is more of the enthusiast's car compared to your Cayenne (since you're switching your Cayenne to your wife)? Or is your wife more of an enthusiast (compared to you, and I am not making any insinuation here)?
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  #262  
Old 08-15-2011, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Nobrandfanboy View Post
Not one run was in the 12s all runs was in 13.05sec+. The X6 is only 90lbs heavier than your car. Still don't see any evidence your car can run 12.069 or better to beat a tuned S4. LOL Keep trying and coming with the insults because I love when owners of BMW costing $20,000+ more think that they can compete with a Panamera $20,000+ more but thinks no other can can compete with theres. I guess this is what they mean when people think BMW owners are self centered.
Comments per the person who posted the video "These runs were done at Great Lakes in Union Grove WI on 10/30. My best run was a 12.8@107 2 weeks prior. Temperature was 50 degrees."

I hate to send you back to the chalkboard again, but the difference in weight is the following:

X6 5.0 5225

550 GT 4894

difference = 241 lbs lighter for the GT


I could care less about the cost difference of a GT vs. a Panamera.. If I wanted a Panamera Turbo I would have bought one. But I opted for the GT. Upon delivery I waited patiently for DINAN to release his tune.. I don't claim to have the fastest car, nor even the fastest GT for that matter. But my car can hold its own whether you want to accept, realize, and/or respect it. It's all good. Here's another fact for you I happen to like Audi's too attached are photos of my Q5 Sline with all options including the 20's which are an option for your S4. I took delivery of this 2010 Q5 in August of 2009 (when they where really rare) and sold it for almost the same price I purchased it for, because I decided to get a "Truck" with more room vs. smaller SUV . In addition to the truck I bought the GT which is a 5 door sedan not a crossover, and definitely not a C/S -UV.

I am happy with my choices. I love Porsches , always have and through my association with Champion Porsche, years back (Before they successfully campaigned an Audi to win LeMans) I was able to meet some cool Porsche drivers: Hans Stuck, Bill Adam and Vic Elford..I always considered them Giant killers... There is no doubt that I will own a Porsche one day - the question is which one...rest assured it will not be a V6 ...preferably the flat 6 or a Porsche V8 for me

attached pics of my former Q5 and a pic of the Panamera ride and drive shortly after the car was released..

..
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  #263  
Old 08-15-2011, 08:52 PM
Rick24C Rick24C is offline
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I have not heard anyone mentioning a car called "M5"; I would wait and get the new M5!
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  #264  
Old 08-15-2011, 09:02 PM
solstice solstice is offline
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car-fan, the angle of that picture of the Panny is awesome. Was it just fluke to get such a flattering side profile picture or did you take a bunch and picked the best? Probably the best side pic I've seen of a Panamera with the shadow accentuating the shoulder line. Sorry but it's a cool looking vehicle and coupled with how it drives it's in another league than the 550 and so is the price. It's not a fair comparison one way or the other.

Last edited by solstice; 08-15-2011 at 09:19 PM.
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  #265  
Old 08-15-2011, 09:51 PM
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K-A K-A is offline
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Originally Posted by solstice View Post
car-fan, the angle of that picture of the Panny is awesome. Was it just fluke to get such a flattering side profile picture or did you take a bunch and picked the best? Probably the best side pic I've seen of a Panamera with the shadow accentuating the shoulder line. Sorry but it's a cool looking vehicle and coupled with how it drives it's in another league than the 550 and so is the price. It's not a fair comparison one way or the other.
That's what I'm saying! A Panamera, like in that picture, can look STUNNING in the right angle, the right element, etc. More-so than the F10 IMO, although the downside is it has those "bad angles" (that make you puke in your mouth) that a more traditional/safe car like the F10 just doesn't have, as that is the whole purpose behind a traditional/safe design. The 5GT isn't in the same aesthetic league as the Panamera. In fact, I'd pit it up against the Cayenne before I do the Panamera, and the Cayenne still reigns supreme in the aesthetic sense IMO, as it looks far more natural and digestable, whilst not being so confused about its identity.
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Last edited by K-A; 08-15-2011 at 09:53 PM.
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  #266  
Old 08-15-2011, 10:03 PM
Nobrandfanboy Nobrandfanboy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by car-fan View Post
Comments per the person who posted the video "These runs were done at Great Lakes in Union Grove WI on 10/30. My best run was a 12.8@107 2 weeks prior. Temperature was 50 degrees."

I hate to send you back to the chalkboard again, but the difference in weight is the following:

X6 5.0 5225

550 GT 4894

difference = 241 lbs lighter for the GT


I could care less about the cost difference of a GT vs. a Panamera.. If I wanted a Panamera Turbo I would have bought one. But I opted for the GT. Upon delivery I waited patiently for DINAN to release his tune.. I don't claim to have the fastest car, nor even the fastest GT for that matter. But my car can hold its own whether you want to accept, realize, and/or respect it. It's all good. Here's another fact for you I happen to like Audi's too attached are photos of my Q5 Sline with all options including the 20's which are an option for your S4. I took delivery of this 2010 Q5 in August of 2009 (when they where really rare) and sold it for almost the same price I purchased it for, because I decided to get a "Truck" with more room vs. smaller SUV . In addition to the truck I bought the GT which is a 5 door sedan not a crossover, and definitely not a C/S -UV.

I am happy with my choices. I love Porsches , always have and through my association with Champion Porsche, years back (Before they successfully campaigned an Audi to win LeMans) I was able to meet some cool Porsche drivers: Hans Stuck, Bill Adam and Vic Elford..I always considered them Giant killers... There is no doubt that I will own a Porsche one day - the question is which one...rest assured it will not be a V6 ...preferably the flat 6 or a Porsche V8 for me

attached pics of my former Q5 and a pic of the Panamera ride and drive shortly after the car was released..

..
I am not questioning your choice of cars. All I was debating was that you said your car can dust off the S4 and I was indicating to you that it is not the case as the two cars have very similiar times stock vs stock and modded vs modded, and even a slight advantage to the S4. I haven't said you bought the wrong car. I understand what BMW was trying to do with the GT and what Porsche was trying to do with the Panamera just the packaging(design) is not to my taste. I haven't driven the 550GT so I have not said anything about the way it handles if you notice but I have driven the 550i and IMO was not equal to the Panamera. The only thing I may have said pertaining to the GT in terms of handling was that in the twisties the S4 would say bye bye which is understandable. Just like it is obvious that the passengers of the GT would be much more comfortable than in the S4. The GT is a great concept just that the BMW designers should have done a better job. This is acknowledged by BMW themselves as they are losing their own wagon customers to the competition which they hoped would have purchased the GT. The GT is actually taking customers from BMW's own 5 and 7 series customers.
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Old 08-15-2011, 10:29 PM
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car-fan, the angle of that picture of the Panny is awesome. Was it just fluke to get such a flattering side profile picture or did you take a bunch and picked the best? Probably the best side pic I've seen of a Panamera with the shadow accentuating the shoulder line. Sorry but it's a cool looking vehicle and coupled with how it drives it's in another league than the 550 and so is the price. It's not a fair comparison one way or the other.
Thanks! No I didn't take many at all- just a luck of the draw I guess. Especially considering its a Blackberry 9700 pic...
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  #268  
Old 08-15-2011, 10:51 PM
bm323 bm323 is offline
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All I was debating was that you said your car can dust off the S4 and I was indicating to you that it is not the case as the two cars have very similiar times stock vs stock and modded vs modded, and even a slight advantage to the S4.
car-fan said he dusted the S4, so you can choose to believe or disbelieve. It appears you choose to disbelieve. For me, there is no reason whatsoever to disbelieve him.

In the previous case, Socal550i (who said he travelled to Tokyo frequently, meaning based on first hand information) disbelieved you when you claimed that the Japanese don't buy Lexus. I also disbelieve you because I travel to Japan.

Likewise, you've said (if I recall correctly) that you've driven the 550i and the Panamera. People can also choose to disbelieve you. There is no end to this

Last edited by bm323; 08-15-2011 at 11:18 PM.
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  #269  
Old 08-15-2011, 11:14 PM
BobBigMan BobBigMan is offline
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Respectfully, you can't concur, because you drove a different car. I have never driven a 530d but I suspect my 550i GT with 20 inch staggered wheels and tires, adaptive handling, sport pack, and 400HP V8 is a very different animal. Moreover, although the GT is based on 7 series architecture, the GT's ride in sport mode is substantially firmer than a 7 series, and the GT's handling feels more button down. In addition, I elected to forgo the electric steering option and I find the standard BMW steering to offer wonderful feel and responsiveness - pure joy.
I reckon the biggest difference must be coming from the electric steering assistance compared to the one in yours, to me I found the steering feel in the 530d to be no real improvement over an Audi which we all know to be lacking in this department. As for the ride, I didn't enjoy sport mode one bit on the roads I drove, it ride was too crashy for what I perceive as a luxury car preferring the normal with give a better balance that I felt was closer to the 7 than the 5. Maybe there more difference suspension-wise between the 530d and your 550 that contribute to our different accounts.

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Have you ever driven a 911 on a road with an uneven surface? 911s have a very stiff suspension, and bump steer has always been part of the 911 experience - I know all too well. A 911 is fun but I would never describe a 911s ride, or a Panamera's, as being compliant. As to Porsche sales, Porsche sports cars have struggled - especially the 911. Sales increases this year are largely due to the introduction of the new Cayenne in China. Indeed, the last time I checked, 911s were coming with equipped with very substantial discounts.
The 911 is what it is and that is more a supercar than a grand tourer sportscar so yes the ride will be compromised, but that not that I meant by it or other Porsches suspension being better, it's the control on the chassis where I notice them superior. All Porsche lean more toward the sports side of the spectrum than luxury, more so than BMW which is why they ride quality and comfort won't suit everyone but what you lose there you gain elsewhere in the actual driving experience by that a Boxster, 911, Cayenne or Panamera.

As for Porsche sales, I glad you brought up the 911 because I remember someone saying both the Cayenne and Panamera were abominations in the eye of the purists, well like I said earlier it's those cars that pull companies out of a hole and make them profitable, the Boxster did for Porsche many years ago and these latest two did it again and making Porsche profitable is an understatement. Maybe America's love for the 911 isn't as strong as it once was but the others the ones that are viewed 'not pure Porsches' are very popular.

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As for the photo, well you do what you must to get motivated, I personally think of Cheryl Cole but don't tell the wife that.
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  #270  
Old 08-15-2011, 11:22 PM
BobBigMan BobBigMan is offline
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Does it not mean that in your view, the A6/F10/E class is more of the enthusiast's car compared to your Cayenne (since you're switching your Cayenne to your wife)? Or is your wife more of an enthusiast (compared to you, and I am not making any insinuation here)?
Switching to the wife means that due to my job I'm doing too many miles on the Porsche which we all know greatly effects their residuals longterm, I'll still be driving the car as I enjoy it but having a saloon instead of another SUV means I get two different driving experiences with one high and the other low plus it's still able to transport the entire family if we chose not to take the Cayenne.

But by all means you read into it what you want.
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  #271  
Old 08-15-2011, 11:29 PM
bm323 bm323 is offline
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Switching to the wife means that due to my job I'm doing too many miles on the Porsche which we all know greatly effects their residuals longterm, I'll still be driving the car as I enjoy it but having a saloon instead of another SUV means I get two different driving experiences with one high and the other low plus it's still able to transport the entire family if we chose not to take the Cayenne.

But by all means you read into it what you want.
Let us know which sedan when you've made the decision
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  #272  
Old 08-16-2011, 12:31 AM
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K-A K-A is offline
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I reckon the biggest difference must be coming from the electric steering assistance compared to the one in yours, to me I found the steering feel in the 530d to be no real improvement over an Audi which we all know to be lacking in this department. As for the ride, I didn't enjoy sport mode one bit on the roads I drove, it ride was too crashy for what I perceive as a luxury car preferring the normal with give a better balance that I felt was closer to the 7 than the 5. Maybe there more difference suspension-wise between the 530d and your 550 that contribute to our different accounts.



The 911 is what it is and that is more a supercar than a grand tourer sportscar so yes the ride will be compromised, but that not that I meant by it or other Porsches suspension being better, it's the control on the chassis where I notice them superior. All Porsche lean more toward the sports side of the spectrum than luxury, more so than BMW which is why they ride quality and comfort won't suit everyone but what you lose there you gain elsewhere in the actual driving experience by that a Boxster, 911, Cayenne or Panamera.

As for Porsche sales, I glad you brought up the 911 because I remember someone saying both the Cayenne and Panamera were abominations in the eye of the purists, well like I said earlier it's those cars that pull companies out of a hole and make them profitable, the Boxster did for Porsche many years ago and these latest two did it again and making Porsche profitable is an understatement. Maybe America's love for the 911 isn't as strong as it once was but the others the ones that are viewed 'not pure Porsches' are very popular.



As for the photo, well you do what you must to get motivated, I personally think of Cheryl Cole but don't tell the wife that.
The 911 is and will always be the IT car for Porsche, the one that everyone identifies the brand with, the car that made and makes the brand, and the one that garners the most "oohs" and "ahhs".

However, I think the extremely niche nature of it is increasingly making it more and more of a "halo" car, while people want to have that 911 bloodline/heritage/family, but need something "more", hence why the spinoffs are doing so well. Take me for example, I'm 6'4, and a total safety nut, which negates the 911 in many ways for me, as it's small, compact, and has practically no crush space behind you (other than that engine steaming up right behind your a$$ ).

Therefore, in order for me to most realistically rekindle my childhood love and fantasies toward the 911, the Panamera is a very key car.... If I can truly fall for it. The Cayenne doesn't do it for me personally, as I guess that's where I "draw the line".

Also, keep in mind that the 997 911 is in its last months of production, and after being on the market for well over a decade (997 is a facelifted 996), it is pulling through only as a Porsche 911 could truly do: Amazingly well after such a long production run.

Once the new 991 comes out, it's gonna be lava hot all over again, and the cycle will restart.
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  #273  
Old 08-16-2011, 03:39 AM
BobBigMan BobBigMan is offline
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Let us know which sedan when you've made the decision
Hopefully by the end of the week I will know either way as be that time I'll have ad seat time in the E-class. At the moment I'm leaning towards the A6 simply because it's the newest on the market and examples on the street are very few, though getting it may prove to be more difficult compare to the BMW or Mercedes, the dealer has a new demo on order which they will sell to me to get it quicker though it's a 3.0TDI S/Line and I'm more in favour of a petrol, will try it when it arrives late next month and then decide as even ordering a new one now will mean they can still change this car's spec if I take their demonstrator.
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  #274  
Old 08-16-2011, 04:29 AM
bm323 bm323 is offline
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Hopefully by the end of the week I will know either way as be that time I'll have ad seat time in the E-class. At the moment I'm leaning towards the A6 simply because it's the newest on the market and examples on the street are very few, though getting it may prove to be more difficult compare to the BMW or Mercedes, the dealer has a new demo on order which they will sell to me to get it quicker though it's a 3.0TDI S/Line and I'm more in favour of a petrol, will try it when it arrives late next month and then decide as even ordering a new one now will mean they can still change this car's spec if I take their demonstrator.
better check the steering feedback/feel
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  #275  
Old 08-16-2011, 05:01 AM
PsychDoc1 PsychDoc1 is offline
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Originally Posted by BobBigMan View Post
Hopefully by the end of the week I will know either way as be that time I'll have ad seat time in the E-class. At the moment I'm leaning towards the A6 simply because it's the newest on the market and examples on the street are very few, though getting it may prove to be more difficult compare to the BMW or Mercedes, the dealer has a new demo on order which they will sell to me to get it quicker though it's a 3.0TDI S/Line and I'm more in favour of a petrol, will try it when it arrives late next month and then decide as even ordering a new one now will mean they can still change this car's spec if I take their demonstrator.
The inside of the A6 is very nice, as is the engine and drivetrain. But the exterior? Uninspired doesn't begin to describe it. It's like an overgrown jelly bean with LED headlights and/or running lights. With those things now being found on all manner of automotive crap from Chryslers to Buicks one has to wonder how long it'll be before they are the next automotive equivalent of the Nehru jacket.

Choose wisely my friend.
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