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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #301  
Old 08-18-2011, 05:25 AM
Nobrandfanboy Nobrandfanboy is offline
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Originally Posted by bm323 View Post
This is telling
The only thing it is telling is how far crappier the new F10 steering is compared to past 5ers since it is now at the Audi AWD level. This would never have been acknowledged in past 5ers and this was my point. BMW has to go back to the old system. Seriously how much gas can the old system use more of?
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  #302  
Old 08-18-2011, 05:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Nobrandfanboy View Post
The only thing it is telling is how far crappier the new F10 steering is compared to past 5ers since it is now at the Audi AWD level. This would never have been acknowledged in past 5ers and this was my point. BMW has to go back to the old system. Seriously how much gas can the old system use more of?
You are wrong. xDrive F10s have same hydraulic power steering with servotronic as e60s.
RWD 5ers have EPS which some like it and some not.
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  #303  
Old 08-18-2011, 06:01 AM
Nobrandfanboy Nobrandfanboy is offline
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Originally Posted by geo3515 View Post
You are wrong. xDrive F10s have same hydraulic power steering with servotronic as e60s.
RWD 5ers have EPS which some like it and some not.
It is the EPS that is ruining the RWD feel of past BMW's. BMW needs to go back to the old system. Not sure if the suspension also plays a part of it since the new F10 is a little more comfy riding. Once BMW can fix this then the car would be perfect.
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  #304  
Old 08-18-2011, 06:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Nobrandfanboy View Post
It is the EPS that is ruining the RWD feel of past BMW's. BMW needs to go back to the old system. Not sure if the suspension also plays a part of it since the new F10 is a little more comfy riding. Once BMW can fix this then the car would be perfect.
The ride is softer in Normal mode. In Sport and Sport+ mode, the ride is no different than my 2008 550i M-Sport.
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  #305  
Old 08-18-2011, 05:27 PM
bmwarchitect bmwarchitect is offline
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Originally Posted by geo3515 View Post
You are wrong. xDrive F10s have same hydraulic power steering with servotronic as e60s.
RWD 5ers have EPS which some like it and some not.
This is the best reason to get x-drive.
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  #306  
Old 08-18-2011, 05:34 PM
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This is the best reason to get x-drive.
For the Dinan owner, it's also the best way to get the power to the ground, especially in the rain and snow.
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  #307  
Old 08-18-2011, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by bmwarchitect View Post
This is the best reason to get x-drive.
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Originally Posted by dunderhi View Post
For the Dinan owner, it's also the best way to get the power to the ground, especially in the rain and snow.
I am genuinely confused about BMW XDrive in terms of performance. My understanding is that Porsches with all wheel drive, have better acceleration and skid pad numbers than their 2 wheel drive brothers. BMWs equipped with XDrive which are slightly taller and heavier - than rear wheel versions - seem to suffer in comparison.

Perhaps given Porsche's more sporting orientation, Porsche incorporates 4 wheel drive systems as a means to enhance performance numbers, while BMW sees XDrive in terms of enhancing safety in poor weather conditions?

I find my 550i GT with staggered 20" wheels and performance tires, sport pack, and adaptive handling with regular non-electric BMW steering (wonderful steering) to be fun and responsive. All wheel drive versions - limited to 19 inch wheels and all season tires - seemed slightly less so - but my experience with BMW XDrive is limited.

I understand this is a complex subject but based on your experience do you find your XDrive to be a positive in terms of performance and handling??????
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  #308  
Old 08-18-2011, 08:33 PM
bm323 bm323 is offline
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Originally Posted by Nobrandfanboy View Post
It is the EPS that is ruining the RWD feel of past BMW's. BMW needs to go back to the old system. Not sure if the suspension also plays a part of it since the new F10 is a little more comfy riding. Once BMW can fix this then the car would be perfect.
Best to disregard such trolling repeats of what he reads. SoCal550i was correct, he's a misinformed troll.

Example of his trolling provoking post, see posts #20 and 24 http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=562058
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  #309  
Old 08-19-2011, 03:48 AM
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Well the decision has been made and it's the A6. I got to drive an E350cdi Sport, petrol model was an SE and wouldn't reflect the drive of the car I was most interested in which was the 350CGI Sport. The car drove well with decent turn of speed from the diesel motor but it doesn't have the body control of either the 5 series or A6 even though it was the most comfortable in standard suspension, lots to like about the car but not enough for me to pick it over the Audi. Only bad decision on my part was to accept a drive in an E63amg, that thing tick all of my boxes and then some, shame it's 30K more than I am willing to spend but it has left me with a lasting impression that both the M5 and the RS6 when it's released will both need to be very special to overshadow this bad boy.

Will be in next week to finalise my order for the A6 and hopefully know a bit more about the demo A6S/Line TDI come in to them next month.
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  #310  
Old 08-19-2011, 03:54 AM
bm323 bm323 is offline
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Originally Posted by BobBigMan View Post
Well the decision has been made and it's the A6.
Yes, should be able to turn the steering with your pinkie but the pinkie may not feel it though
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  #311  
Old 08-19-2011, 04:09 AM
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Congrats, post pics when you get it.

Although it is very nice, I'm not too "inspired" by the A6's design myself, but I did see one on the road and it did in fact have its own presence VS the A4 and A8, mainly given away by the different LED graphics up front and taillight design out back (more angular).
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  #312  
Old 08-19-2011, 04:27 AM
BobBigMan BobBigMan is offline
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Originally Posted by bm323 View Post
Yes, should be able to turn the steering with your pinkie but the pinkie may not feel it though
Unfortunately both the A6 and rwd 5 series suffer this and to an ever so slightly lesser extent the E-class too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-A View Post
Congrats, post pics when you get it.

Although it is very nice, I'm not too "inspired" by the A6's design myself, but I did see one on the road and it did in fact have its own presence VS the A4 and A8, mainly given away by the different LED graphics up front and taillight design out back (more angular).
You have a very nice car after spending some time in one, I can honestly see the appeal. Over here silver is the big colour for Mercs and it's what I drove though I think white suits it best. Will definitely post pics which ever one I end up taking, be it the one I will order or their demonstrator.
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  #313  
Old 08-19-2011, 04:34 AM
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Thanks, and yeah it's a great car. This is my second white one, so I agree!

Enjoy the new ride! So far it seems like the press/reviewers love the new A6's, especially on a sporty level.
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  #314  
Old 08-19-2011, 04:37 AM
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Originally Posted by BobBigMan View Post
Well the decision has been made and it's the A6. I got to drive an E350cdi Sport, petrol model was an SE and wouldn't reflect the drive of the car I was most interested in which was the 350CGI Sport. The car drove well with decent turn of speed from the diesel motor but it doesn't have the body control of either the 5 series or A6 even though it was the most comfortable in standard suspension, lots to like about the car but not enough for me to pick it over the Audi. Only bad decision on my part was to accept a drive in an E63amg, that thing tick all of my boxes and then some, shame it's 30K more than I am willing to spend but it has left me with a lasting impression that both the M5 and the RS6 when it's released will both need to be very special to overshadow this bad boy.

Will be in next week to finalise my order for the A6 and hopefully know a bit more about the demo A6S/Line TDI come in to them next month.
Congrats. Like I said, if you can live with the exterior design and if the dealerships in your area are likely to provide excellent follow-up care, the A6 is definitely the (slightly) superior driving proposition.
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  #315  
Old 08-19-2011, 04:54 AM
Nobrandfanboy Nobrandfanboy is offline
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Originally Posted by bm323 View Post
Best to disregard such trolling repeats of what he reads. SoCal550i was correct, he's a misinformed troll.

Example of his trolling provoking post, see posts #20 and 24 http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=562058
If that link is what you use to point out that I am a troll than I am willing to bet that many of the BMW posters here think the 550GT is ugly.
You are just a BMW Fanboy who can take any criticism of his vehicle.
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  #316  
Old 08-19-2011, 04:58 AM
Nobrandfanboy Nobrandfanboy is offline
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Originally Posted by BobBigMan View Post
Unfortunately both the A6 and rwd 5 series suffer this and to an ever so slightly lesser extent the E-class too.



You have a very nice car after spending some time in one, I can honestly see the appeal. Over here silver is the big colour for Mercs and it's what I drove though I think white suits it best. Will definitely post pics which ever one I end up taking, be it the one I will order or their demonstrator.
Geo3513 the "BMW Fanboy" is going to start calling you a Troll so welcome to the troll list!
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Last edited by Nobrandfanboy; 08-19-2011 at 05:08 AM.
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  #317  
Old 08-19-2011, 05:07 AM
Nobrandfanboy Nobrandfanboy is offline
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Originally Posted by Capobranco View Post
I am genuinely confused about BMW XDrive in terms of performance. My understanding is that Porsches with all wheel drive, have better acceleration and skid pad numbers than their 2 wheel drive brothers. BMWs equipped with XDrive which are slightly taller and heavier - than rear wheel versions - seem to suffer in comparison.

Perhaps given Porsche's more sporting orientation, Porsche incorporates 4 wheel drive systems as a means to enhance performance numbers, while BMW sees XDrive in terms of enhancing safety in poor weather conditions?

I find my 550i GT with staggered 20" wheels and performance tires, sport pack, and adaptive handling with regular non-electric BMW steering (wonderful steering) to be fun and responsive. All wheel drive versions - limited to 19 inch wheels and all season tires - seemed slightly less so - but my experience with BMW XDrive is limited.

I understand this is a complex subject but based on your experience do you find your XDrive to be a positive in terms of performance and handling??????
Do you know if the X-drive on the 5er is the same one used in the X6m or is it the same used in the 3er? If it is the one used in the X6M than that is similiar to the ones used in Porsches and higher end Audi which is based on a mechanical system. The X-Drive used on the 3er is based on Electrical system and this might be slightly better in the snow for sensing slippage but is not a performance system. The mechanical systems help performance because it does not need the input from processors to tell what it needs to do. The mechanical system is much more proactive while the electrical system senses slippage then processes this than tells the system what to do.
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  #318  
Old 08-19-2011, 05:29 AM
bm323 bm323 is offline
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Originally Posted by BobBigMan View Post
Unfortunately both the A6 and rwd 5 series suffer this and to an ever so slightly lesser extent the E-class too.
I would have to disagree, the problem with the F10 to some should be the suspension, not the steering feedback. Many are just parroting
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  #319  
Old 08-19-2011, 05:37 AM
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(deleted - repeat post)

Last edited by bm323; 08-19-2011 at 05:38 AM.
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  #320  
Old 08-19-2011, 06:02 AM
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Originally Posted by BobBigMan View Post
Well the decision has been made and it's the A6. I got to drive an E350cdi Sport, petrol model was an SE and wouldn't reflect the drive of the car I was most interested in which was the 350CGI Sport. The car drove well with decent turn of speed from the diesel motor but it doesn't have the body control of either the 5 series or A6 even though it was the most comfortable in standard suspension, lots to like about the car but not enough for me to pick it over the Audi. Only bad decision on my part was to accept a drive in an E63amg, that thing tick all of my boxes and then some, shame it's 30K more than I am willing to spend but it has left me with a lasting impression that both the M5 and the RS6 when it's released will both need to be very special to overshadow this bad boy.

Will be in next week to finalise my order for the A6 and hopefully know a bit more about the demo A6S/Line TDI come in to them next month.
Which engine did you get?
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  #321  
Old 08-19-2011, 06:46 AM
BobBigMan BobBigMan is offline
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Originally Posted by K-A View Post
Thanks, and yeah it's a great car. This is my second white one, so I agree!

Enjoy the new ride! So far it seems like the press/reviewers love the new A6's, especially on a sporty level.
It's really nit-picking as to which is best and all ends up as you which you feel most comfortable putting your money in. If the Merc had a bit better body control like it does in the E63 then I could have easily pick it first but as it was I couldn't chose it over the A6.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PsychDoc1 View Post
Congrats. Like I said, if you can live with the exterior design and if the dealerships in your area are likely to provide excellent follow-up care, the A6 is definitely the (slightly) superior driving proposition.
Thanks, if their service department is similar to their Porsche outfit which I believe it will because many of the staff switch positions between all their dealers as they move up the ladder. As I said above, all three would be a welcome addition to anyone's driveway.
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  #322  
Old 08-19-2011, 07:07 AM
BobBigMan BobBigMan is offline
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Originally Posted by bm323 View Post
I would have to disagree, the problem with the F10 to some should be the suspension, not the steering feedback. Many are just parroting
I've never driven the xDrive version but in my honest opinion the steering in the rwd car isn't any better than what Audi offer in the A6. Maybe you are mistaking the lightness the Audi has at parking speed as normal but it firms up nicely and behaves very similarly to the BMW.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
Which engine did you get?
I'll be ordering the 3.0TFSI, probably Silver but I also like the Havana Black they do, can't decide of rim size as I drove one on 20" and found it slightly jarring at low speed and added some unwelcome road noise. The demo coming has 19" I've been told so if I prefer them I can change my order from the 20" to 19". One thing I won't be getting is the B&O upgrade, at 6K it's WAY over priced and not worth the extra compared to Bose in the test car I drove recently, but I've read at some owners of the cars reckon the base setup is the best of all so will need to hear it and see if I can shave another 1K off the final price.
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  #323  
Old 08-19-2011, 07:10 AM
Munich77 Munich77 is online now
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Originally Posted by BobBigMan View Post
I've never driven the xDrive version but in my honest opinion the steering in the rwd car isn't any better than what Audi offer in the A6. Maybe you are mistaking the lightness the Audi has at parking speed as normal but it firms up nicely and behaves very similarly to the BMW.



I'll be ordering the 3.0TFSI, probably Silver but I also like the Havana Black they do, can't decide of rim size as I drove one on 20" and found it slightly jarring at low speed and added some unwelcome road noise. The demo coming has 19" I've been told so if I prefer them I can change my order from the 20" to 19". One thing I won't be getting is the B&O upgrade, at 6K it's WAY over priced and not worth the extra compared to Bose in the test car I drove recently, but I've read at some owners of the cars reckon the base setup is the best of all so will need to hear it and see if I can shave another 1K off the final price.
Congratulations - I think the A6 is a fine choice. Personally, here in the US I would also gravitate towards the A6 - either the TFSI or if they ever less it the 300 hp diesel version.
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  #324  
Old 08-19-2011, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by BobBigMan View Post

I'll be ordering the 3.0TFSI, probably Silver but I also like the Havana Black they do, can't decide of rim size as I drove one on 20" and found it slightly jarring at low speed and added some unwelcome road noise. The demo coming has 19" I've been told so if I prefer them I can change my order from the 20" to 19". One thing I won't be getting is the B&O upgrade, at 6K it's WAY over priced and not worth the extra compared to Bose in the test car I drove recently, but I've read at some owners of the cars reckon the base setup is the best of all so will need to hear it and see if I can shave another 1K off the final price.
Stonkingly great engine. Great choice! I'd have thought you'd have gone with the derv.

Phantom black is very nice as well. And I like Audi's Deep Sea Blue much better than BMW's color of the same name.
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  #325  
Old 08-19-2011, 08:32 AM
Nobrandfanboy Nobrandfanboy is offline
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Originally Posted by BobBigMan View Post
I've never driven the xDrive version but in my honest opinion the steering in the rwd car isn't any better than what Audi offer in the A6. Maybe you are mistaking the lightness the Audi has at parking speed as normal but it firms up nicely and behaves very similarly to the BMW.



I'll be ordering the 3.0TFSI, probably Silver but I also like the Havana Black they do, can't decide of rim size as I drove one on 20" and found it slightly jarring at low speed and added some unwelcome road noise. The demo coming has 19" I've been told so if I prefer them I can change my order from the 20" to 19". One thing I won't be getting is the B&O upgrade, at 6K it's WAY over priced and not worth the extra compared to Bose in the test car I drove recently, but I've read at some owners of the cars reckon the base setup is the best of all so will need to hear it and see if I can shave another 1K off the final price.
Go to GOAPR.com once you get your 3.0T A6 and get a tune and pulley and then you will see what that engine can really do.
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