Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)

F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #101  
Old 08-12-2011, 02:24 AM
BobBigMan BobBigMan is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Northern Ireland
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 207
Mein Auto: Audi A6 TDI
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capobranco View Post
Feel good about your 550i - it's not only the value play, but the better car in absolute terms!

Moreover, if you are concerned about cachet - the Panamera, as it proliferates, appears to be in the process of becoming just another Porsche. In my neighborhood, there is no particular distinction to driving a Panamera - Panameras appear to be as common as 911s.
I think you have me confused with someone else, I don't have a 550i, I own a Cayenne at the moment but I'm considering switching to either a 535i, A63.0T or E350.

I don't agree with your opinion that the 550i is a better car in absolute terms, it's solely value that makes it the more appealing, it definitely doesn't feel as special to drive in much the same when comparing my Cayenne to an X5, both are excellent cars but it's the Cayenne that makes the experience feel more special. I don't how much that feeling is worth, probably different for each one of us which is why in some comparisons the BMW wins and in others it's the Porsche that wins.

P.S.
If as you say that in your area it's coming down with Panameras then surely the 5 series are as common as Yellow cabs in NewYork, here at least seeing a Panamera on the road is an extremely rare event, much more so than a 911.
Reply With Quote
  #102  
Old 08-12-2011, 04:05 AM
K-A's Avatar
K-A K-A is online now
Dark Knight
Location: U.S
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,563
Mein Auto: '13 BMW 535i M Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
leanofpeak has a point. I'm in Europe and everyone I've asked loves everything about the Panamera even the Italians. And seeing it in beautiful settings as the Amalfi coast or historical areas as downtown Naples I can say that IMO it makes a powerful and upmarket statement that the F10 can't remotely match with it's classic understated but also a bit anonymous look.
It's crazy how true this is. I'd heard this before, and assumed it was BS, but after recently going to Paris, while being a huge advocate against the Panamera.... it was my first day there when I saw a Panny driving amongst all the ho-hum/awkward/hideous/generic-to-EU Hatchbacks, when I shockingly saw some beauty in it. Since then, the car has been growing on me, and I'm seeing a beauty in it, which is rare as I usually like my cars very classically-timeless and relatively traditional in their form (I usually don't like nu-fad designs that look their year and have no real bloodline behind them). I still can't "get there" with the Panny, but I do find it striking sometimes, then gag-reflex inducing others. I recently drove a Panny (V6) and was impressed, but seeing it sitting next to my E-Class proved to my eyes that not only was my car much nicer, but also much more affordable. Still.... The Panamera is in my head.

As for the O/P's question.. money no object, I'd go Panamera. But the Bimmer has the bang for the buck down back, comparatively speaking.

Some pics of the two (the Panny surprisingly looks stunning next to the F10, and wins in these photo comparo's IMO).





__________________
'13 F10 BMW 535i Sport : Jet Black/Black-Anthracite : Premium & Technology Packages/Sport Auto Trans/Camera/Park Distance Control/Heated Seats/Tinted Windows/Blacked Out Markers/Performance Spoiler.

Ex M-B's: '11/'10/'06 E350's w/ AMG Sport Package, '02 S500 w/ Every Option.
Reply With Quote
  #103  
Old 08-12-2011, 04:52 AM
Needsdecaf's Avatar
Needsdecaf Needsdecaf is offline
Everything's Bigger in TX
Location: The Woodlands, TX
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,106
Mein Auto: 2007 MDX
Yeah, the Panamera looks good there because professional photogs know how to flatter it.

The car is definitely growing on me, but really, it's still pretty ungainly looking and downright awkward from some angles.
__________________
2011 535i
Sophisto Grau / Oyster - Black Nappa, Anthracite Wood Gone but not forgotten.

Heaven is where the police are British, the cooks are French, the cars are German, the lovers are Italian and it is all organised by the Swiss.

Hell is where the police are German, the cooks are English, the cars are French, the lovers are Swiss, and it is all organised by the Italians
Reply With Quote
  #104  
Old 08-12-2011, 04:59 AM
K-A's Avatar
K-A K-A is online now
Dark Knight
Location: U.S
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,563
Mein Auto: '13 BMW 535i M Sport
That's the problem with the Panamera. It has it's ok/good/great/stunning (depending on how your personal tastes see it) angles, and it's odd/weird/awkward/off/bad/hideous angles as well. I just wish it was a little less angle-specific and I'd be on board.

I wanted to drive one, get up close with it, etc. etc. and see how it swayed me. Unfortunately, I gotta say it didn't sway me toward the car (although I have no complaints about the drive itself, and outstanding seat support), however, the example I drove was very bare-bones (at a lofty $86K), disproportionally small wheels, ugly brown-ish color, etc.
__________________
'13 F10 BMW 535i Sport : Jet Black/Black-Anthracite : Premium & Technology Packages/Sport Auto Trans/Camera/Park Distance Control/Heated Seats/Tinted Windows/Blacked Out Markers/Performance Spoiler.

Ex M-B's: '11/'10/'06 E350's w/ AMG Sport Package, '02 S500 w/ Every Option.
Reply With Quote
  #105  
Old 08-12-2011, 06:02 AM
Munich77 Munich77 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Washington DC
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,019
Mein Auto: 2014 E550 4matic
Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
Yeah, the Panamera looks good there because professional photogs know how to flatter it.

The car is definitely growing on me, but really, it's still pretty ungainly looking and downright awkward from some angles.
That is how I feel about it too.
__________________
2008 535 xi, space grey, black dakota leather, premium package, sport package, cold weather package, nav, folding seats, PDC

BMW CCA Member
Reply With Quote
  #106  
Old 08-12-2011, 06:22 AM
highyo highyo is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: manhattan
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,752
Mein Auto: X5 50i, M3
who won?
__________________


2013 E70 X5 50i, Saphirschwarz, Dark Burl Walnut Trim, Multi-contour Seats, Sports Activity Package, Premium Sound, Running Boards

2012 E92 M3, Jerezschwarz, Dinan Lower Control Arm Monoball Kit, Dinan Racing Rear Toe Link, Dinan Front Carbon Fiber Strut Tower Braces, Dinan Stage 1 Suspension, Dinan 3:62 LSD, Dinan Underdrive Pulley Kit, Dinan High Flow Carbon Intake, BPM stage 1 and DCT tunes, Passport 9500ci, LI Dual
Reply With Quote
  #107  
Old 08-12-2011, 06:24 AM
chelseafc chelseafc is offline
Merc Convert
Location: CT
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 744
Mein Auto: '08 550i Sport
In the picture showing both cars taking a right corner, the Porsche looks floppy, topheavy, round and outdated. The F10 below it looks sharp, crisp and proportional.
__________________

2008 550i M Sport Carbon Black on Black 6AT SAT

When in doubt, find row zed.
Reply With Quote
  #108  
Old 08-12-2011, 06:37 AM
K-A's Avatar
K-A K-A is online now
Dark Knight
Location: U.S
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,563
Mein Auto: '13 BMW 535i M Sport
The Test was about Diesels, and they made it clear that the BMW's venerable 35D was the one to beat from the get-go, and I believe they awarded the 535D because Porsche's (Audi) Diesel just couldn't stack up. Although they credited the interior and sense of occasion, etc. to the Porsche.
__________________
'13 F10 BMW 535i Sport : Jet Black/Black-Anthracite : Premium & Technology Packages/Sport Auto Trans/Camera/Park Distance Control/Heated Seats/Tinted Windows/Blacked Out Markers/Performance Spoiler.

Ex M-B's: '11/'10/'06 E350's w/ AMG Sport Package, '02 S500 w/ Every Option.
Reply With Quote
  #109  
Old 08-12-2011, 06:51 AM
BobBigMan BobBigMan is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Northern Ireland
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 207
Mein Auto: Audi A6 TDI
Quote:
Originally Posted by chelseafc View Post
In the picture showing both cars taking a right corner, the Porsche looks floppy, topheavy, round and outdated. The F10 below it looks sharp, crisp and proportional.
Looks are a very personal thing, I dislike the rear and side profile especially on the Panamera but love the front and it's the opposite with the new 5 which I love the rear and don't really like the new nose design as much as the E60.

Anyway I thought we were discussing the driving merits of each and not which one we prefer the look of.

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-A View Post
The Test was about Diesels, and they made it clear that the BMW's venerable 35D was the one to beat from the get-go, and I believe they awarded the 535D because Porsche's (Audi) Diesel just couldn't stack up. Although they credited the interior and sense of occasion, etc. to the Porsche.
That 35d is a great engine, no wonder Audi have finally decided to bring out their own version, better later than never. The diesel Panamera never really stood a chance here but they did still praise the elements that I believe make driving a Porsche special and possibly worth it.

I wonder will Porsche get Audi's twin turbo diesel soon, that might sway the outcome.
Reply With Quote
  #110  
Old 08-12-2011, 07:33 AM
chelseafc chelseafc is offline
Merc Convert
Location: CT
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 744
Mein Auto: '08 550i Sport
I have to say I think I like the swept back nose of the E60 as well over the F10. However, the vertical nose on the F10 is growing on me as I see it more shark-like, more 635csi'ish.


I think my post on looks was the 20th in this thread so...plus with a car as ugly as the Panamera, surely you'll have very vocal opinions.
__________________

2008 550i M Sport Carbon Black on Black 6AT SAT

When in doubt, find row zed.
Reply With Quote
  #111  
Old 08-12-2011, 07:41 AM
geo3515's Avatar
geo3515 geo3515 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: USA
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 208
Mein Auto: 2014 550i xDrive M Sport
I just can't stand the side profile.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	porsche-panamera.jpg
Views:	1109
Size:	26.3 KB
ID:	288868  
__________________

2014 550i xDrive, M Sport, Carbon Black, Mocha Nappa Leather/Anthracite, DHP, Executive Pkg , CWP, Lighting, Luxury seating, Side and Top View camera, Sunshades (11/2013 build)

--------------------
2012 X5 xDrive50i (wife)
2011 550i xDrive M Sport (retired)
2008 X5 4.8 (retired)
2008 550i M Sport (retired)
2005 545i (retired)
Reply With Quote
  #112  
Old 08-12-2011, 08:07 AM
Rafa Rafa is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Miami, FL
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 802
Mein Auto: 2011 550i
Quote:
Originally Posted by geo3515 View Post
I just can't stand the side profile.
Agree 100%.
__________________
ED on Sep. 28, 2010: 550i Dark Graphite Metallic, Oyster/Black Nappa Leather, Anthracite Wood Trim, Convenience Package, Driver Assistance Package, Premium Package 1 (Std.) & 2, Sport Package, Sport Automatic Transmission, Dynamic Handling Package, Active Cruise Control, Head-Up Display, Side and Top View Cameras, 4-Zone Automatic Climate Control.

Retired: 2008 528i Space Gray.
Reply With Quote
  #113  
Old 08-12-2011, 08:34 AM
Capobranco's Avatar
Capobranco Capobranco is offline
Eye of the Wolf
Location: Potomac, Maryland
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,434
Mein Auto: M3 ZCP, X3 35i M Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by highyo View Post
who won?
Quote:
Originally Posted by K-A View Post
The Test was about Diesels, and they made it clear that the BMW's venerable 35D was the one to beat from the get-go, and I believe they awarded the 535D because Porsche's (Audi) Diesel just couldn't stack up. Although they credited the interior and sense of occasion, etc. to the Porsche.
hmmm....four direct head to head reviews between BMWs and the Panamera, and BMW wins three....

Reviews provide a feel good affirmation but in the end pale to direct experience driven by our individual needs, desires and passions.
Based on my direct experience I think BMW builds the overall better sedan - excepting the Panamera T which occupies a rarefied niche.

BTW my hyperbole not withstanding - I am considering renewing my PCA membership with this - IMO classic Porsches are magic.

__________________
BMWCCA

Last edited by Capobranco; 08-12-2011 at 08:40 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #114  
Old 08-12-2011, 08:40 AM
chelseafc chelseafc is offline
Merc Convert
Location: CT
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 744
Mein Auto: '08 550i Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by geo3515 View Post
I just can't stand the side profile.
If that rear had a more angular slope downwards to the boot I bet that would make a world of difference and remove the orb-like back end.
__________________

2008 550i M Sport Carbon Black on Black 6AT SAT

When in doubt, find row zed.
Reply With Quote
  #115  
Old 08-12-2011, 09:53 AM
Nobrandfanboy Nobrandfanboy is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Canada
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 430
Mein Auto: S4
Porsche = Luxury Sports Sedan
BMW 550i/550GT 750i = Luxury Sedan

If you guys are trying to argue that the BMW is as sporty as the Porsche than you guys are fooling yourself. If you are arguing the Porsche is as comfortable as the BMW than Porsche is doing something wrong.
The reviews that copo and swajames pointed out clearly outline this.
Reply With Quote
  #116  
Old 08-12-2011, 09:55 AM
Nobrandfanboy Nobrandfanboy is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Canada
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 430
Mein Auto: S4
Quote:
Originally Posted by geo3515 View Post
I just can't stand the side profile.
That side profile may not be great but still better than the 550GT!

Last edited by Nobrandfanboy; 08-12-2011 at 09:57 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #117  
Old 08-12-2011, 10:08 AM
geo3515's Avatar
geo3515 geo3515 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: USA
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 208
Mein Auto: 2014 550i xDrive M Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobrandfanboy View Post
That side profile may not be great but still better than the 550GT!
The topic is for the 550xi m sport vs Panamera 4s.
__________________

2014 550i xDrive, M Sport, Carbon Black, Mocha Nappa Leather/Anthracite, DHP, Executive Pkg , CWP, Lighting, Luxury seating, Side and Top View camera, Sunshades (11/2013 build)

--------------------
2012 X5 xDrive50i (wife)
2011 550i xDrive M Sport (retired)
2008 X5 4.8 (retired)
2008 550i M Sport (retired)
2005 545i (retired)
Reply With Quote
  #118  
Old 08-12-2011, 10:10 AM
Capobranco's Avatar
Capobranco Capobranco is offline
Eye of the Wolf
Location: Potomac, Maryland
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,434
Mein Auto: M3 ZCP, X3 35i M Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by chelseafc View Post
If that rear had a more angular slope downwards to the boot I bet that would make a world of difference and remove the orb-like back end.
Although the back end incorporates classic Porsche styling cues ultimately the back end remains challenged aesthetically, but does offers enhanced utility. I f you should have the occasion to drive the Panamera, you will be struck by its seemingly large exterior vis--vis its F10 sized interior. The interior is attractive but snug especially the back seats. I am 6'3" 210 lbs and I find the rear uncomfortable. In general, regardless of your size the rear is claustrophobic. The Panamera was designed as an executive 5 door sports/luxury alternative to BMW/Mercedes/Audi and needed to incorporate a measure of utility. The Audi A7 makes fewer styling compromises, and offers a more sleek form that you suggest, but in the process severely limits back seat comfort. IMO it seems self defeating to build a luxury 5 door that does not incorporate a large dose of utility and functionality. Porsche understood that the Panamera would be judged by potential buyers not only dynamically but also on how well it performs as an executive express sedan/5 door. Porsche/BMW/Audi offer unique solutions that attempt to balance aesthetics and functionality. The 550i being a traditional 3 box sedan is exempt from having to make this compromise.
__________________
BMWCCA

Last edited by Capobranco; 08-12-2011 at 10:15 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #119  
Old 08-12-2011, 10:37 AM
Needsdecaf's Avatar
Needsdecaf Needsdecaf is offline
Everything's Bigger in TX
Location: The Woodlands, TX
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,106
Mein Auto: 2007 MDX
Quote:
Originally Posted by geo3515 View Post
I just can't stand the side profile.




Looks the same to me. LOL.
__________________
2011 535i
Sophisto Grau / Oyster - Black Nappa, Anthracite Wood Gone but not forgotten.

Heaven is where the police are British, the cooks are French, the cars are German, the lovers are Italian and it is all organised by the Swiss.

Hell is where the police are German, the cooks are English, the cars are French, the lovers are Swiss, and it is all organised by the Italians
Reply With Quote
  #120  
Old 08-12-2011, 12:40 PM
Nobrandfanboy Nobrandfanboy is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Canada
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 430
Mein Auto: S4
Quote:
Originally Posted by geo3515 View Post
The topic is for the 550xi m sport vs Panamera 4s.
I am just commenting that you indicated that the Panamera side profile is ugly but didn't say anything about the 550GT being also ugly. The 550GT was mentioned in the articles and was compared to the Panamera was it not? So the question is why say the Panamera is ugly and not the GT unless you think the GT side profile is awesome.
Reply With Quote
  #121  
Old 08-12-2011, 12:44 PM
Nobrandfanboy Nobrandfanboy is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Canada
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 430
Mein Auto: S4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capobranco View Post
Although the back end incorporates classic Porsche styling cues ultimately the back end remains challenged aesthetically, but does offers enhanced utility. I f you should have the occasion to drive the Panamera, you will be struck by its seemingly large exterior vis--vis its F10 sized interior. The interior is attractive but snug especially the back seats. I am 6'3" 210 lbs and I find the rear uncomfortable. In general, regardless of your size the rear is claustrophobic. The Panamera was designed as an executive 5 door sports/luxury alternative to BMW/Mercedes/Audi and needed to incorporate a measure of utility. The Audi A7 makes fewer styling compromises, and offers a more sleek form that you suggest, but in the process severely limits back seat comfort. IMO it seems self defeating to build a luxury 5 door that does not incorporate a large dose of utility and functionality. Porsche understood that the Panamera would be judged by potential buyers not only dynamically but also on how well it performs as an executive express sedan/5 door. Porsche/BMW/Audi offer unique solutions that attempt to balance aesthetics and functionality. The 550i being a traditional 3 box sedan is exempt from having to make this compromise.
The reason is the 5series is a traditional sedan while the Panamera, A7, and CLS are more concerned about coupe styling than seating 5 people comfortably. These cars are supposed to accomodate 4 in style and have performance and Porsche has done this the best. Porsche did not design the Panamera to compete with the 5er nor did BMW design the 5er to compete with the Panamera. The Panamera was not designed to tour across America.

Last edited by Nobrandfanboy; 08-12-2011 at 12:47 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #122  
Old 08-12-2011, 12:49 PM
Nobrandfanboy Nobrandfanboy is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Canada
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 430
Mein Auto: S4




So does this.

Last edited by Nobrandfanboy; 08-12-2011 at 12:51 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #123  
Old 08-12-2011, 01:14 PM
geo3515's Avatar
geo3515 geo3515 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: USA
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 208
Mein Auto: 2014 550i xDrive M Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobrandfanboy View Post
I am just commenting that you indicated that the Panamera side profile is ugly but didn't say anything about the 550GT being also ugly. The 550GT was mentioned in the articles and was compared to the Panamera was it not? So the question is why say the Panamera is ugly and not the GT unless you think the GT side profile is awesome.
I think the 550GT side profile is ugly too, but OP is interested in opinions 550 xi vs Panamera 4s.

As for my opinion, no matter how good Panamera's driving dynamics is, it looks so ugly that I would never consider it.
__________________

2014 550i xDrive, M Sport, Carbon Black, Mocha Nappa Leather/Anthracite, DHP, Executive Pkg , CWP, Lighting, Luxury seating, Side and Top View camera, Sunshades (11/2013 build)

--------------------
2012 X5 xDrive50i (wife)
2011 550i xDrive M Sport (retired)
2008 X5 4.8 (retired)
2008 550i M Sport (retired)
2005 545i (retired)
Reply With Quote
  #124  
Old 08-12-2011, 01:36 PM
Capobranco's Avatar
Capobranco Capobranco is offline
Eye of the Wolf
Location: Potomac, Maryland
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,434
Mein Auto: M3 ZCP, X3 35i M Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobrandfanboy View Post
I am just commenting that you indicated that the Panamera side profile is ugly but didn't say anything about the 550GT being also ugly. The 550GT was mentioned in the articles and was compared to the Panamera was it not? So the question is why say the Panamera is ugly and not the GT unless you think the GT side profile is awesome.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobrandfanboy View Post
The reason is the 5series is a traditional sedan while the Panamera, A7, and CLS are more concerned about coupe styling than seating 5 people comfortably. These cars are supposed to accomodate 4 in style and have performance and Porsche has done this the best. Porsche did not design the Panamera to compete with the 5er nor did BMW design the 5er to compete with the Panamera. The Panamera was not designed to tour across America.
The BMW GT and the Panamera represent a new class that attempts to dial in significant amounts of utility and luxury while maintaining an engaging driving experience - as a consequence of this design choice, both sacrifice styling purity for functionality. Obviously, the Porsche places an emphasis on sport and BMW on luxury and utility. Both offer aesthetic challenges but I suspect their owners - I am one - look at the total driving experience - not just styling. I agree that the 550i is a more pure shape, indeed, offering better styling overall, but the 550i does lack the road presence that both the Panamera and GT exude - perhaps due to the 550i's preceived size and/or ultra conservative styling IMO. I agree that the 550i is not seemingly a natural competitor to the Panamera but it is an interesting exercise to to compare the Porsche to the benchmark of traditional sedans - the BMW 550i. An interesting question is not just how the Panamera performs dynamically vis-a-vis the 550i, but to examine the Panamera with respect to how well it fulfills its design mission as an executive express - which places it in the cross hairs of the 550i.
__________________
BMWCCA
Reply With Quote
  #125  
Old 08-12-2011, 01:44 PM
Capobranco's Avatar
Capobranco Capobranco is offline
Eye of the Wolf
Location: Potomac, Maryland
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,434
Mein Auto: M3 ZCP, X3 35i M Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post




Looks the same to me. LOL.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobrandfanboy View Post




So does this.
Respectfully I suggest......



.
.
__________________
BMWCCA
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:54 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms