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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #126  
Old 08-12-2011, 02:19 PM
Nobrandfanboy Nobrandfanboy is offline
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IMO if I was shopping for the Panamera I would not cross shop with the 550i or 550GT. I would be cross shopping it with the 650i Gran Sport (when available) , Jaguar XJ, Audi A7, MB CLS and the like. Reason is that these cars are more exclusive and are more impressive IMO design wise. These cars stand out a lot more and are more prestigious. The 550i is more competitor to the mainstream cars such as the Audi A6, and E-Class.
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  #127  
Old 08-12-2011, 02:28 PM
Sophisto Sophisto is offline
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I do not like the looks of the Panamera, the F07, or the A7 for that matter.
As stated in this thread these cars are of a different style, something apart.
In the forementioned 3 cars the desigeners did not succeed in my eyes to produces a good looking car.
And when talking beauty in the price range of the big Porsche, there is ample British and Italian competition. Like an Aston Martin or a Maserati. For the driving, well you just stick to a 911 and do not go around with all the extra weight of these big cars.

Last edited by Sophisto; 08-12-2011 at 02:30 PM.
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  #128  
Old 08-12-2011, 02:42 PM
Nobrandfanboy Nobrandfanboy is offline
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Originally Posted by Sophisto View Post
I do not like the looks of the Panamera, the F07, or the A7 for that matter.
As stated in this thread these cars are of a different style, something apart.
In the forementioned 3 cars the desigeners did not succeed in my eyes to produces a good looking car.
And when talking beauty in the price range of the big Porsche, there is ample British and Italian competition. Like an Aston Martin or a Maserati. For the driving, well you just stick to a 911 and do not go around with all the extra weight of these big cars.
Maserati cars suck! They may look nice but literally fall apart in a short few years. No comparison with Porsche in terms of quality and reliability. Rapide costs twice as much as Panamera. As for 911 you can't sit 4 adults. Or to have a 911 and a luxury 4 door sedan would also cost double of having the Panamera.
Not saying the Panamera is the ultimate car here but when comparing it to the competition in it's respective market it is pretty hard to argue against.

Last edited by Nobrandfanboy; 08-12-2011 at 02:43 PM.
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  #129  
Old 08-12-2011, 03:16 PM
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Capobranco Capobranco is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sophisto View Post
I do not like the looks of the Panamera, the F07, or the A7 for that matter.
As stated in this thread these cars are of a different style, something apart.
In the forementioned 3 cars the desigeners did not succeed in my eyes to produces a good looking car.
And when talking beauty in the price range of the big Porsche, there is ample British and Italian competition. Like an Aston Martin or a Maserati. For the driving, well you just stick to a 911 and do not go around with all the extra weight of these big cars.
The Panamera, F07, and the A7 are not for everyone - they are niche players. I did drive a 911 Turbo for 10 years - and I also drove a 5 Series touring for over 100,000 miles. While driving my Porsche I occasionally needed/desired additional utility. When driving my E39 I often yearned for a more engaging experience. Well....Porsche and BMW listened and built the Panamera and the GT - both serve up luxury and utility, and offer engaging driving experiences in a manner that no traditional sedan could hope to fulfill. The 550i is a wonderful executive express machine but cannot match the Panamera's or GT's utility or luxury. Obviously, Porsche and BMW offer a different mix of dynamic and functional characteristics. In the end, the GT was more attuned to my needs, desires, and passions - but it is very much a niche player.
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  #130  
Old 08-12-2011, 03:33 PM
swajames swajames is offline
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Originally Posted by Capobranco View Post
The Panamera, F07, and the A7 are not for everyone - they are niche players. I did drive a 911 Turbo for 10 years - and I also drove a 5 Series touring for over 100,000 miles. While driving my Porsche I occasionally needed/desired additional utility. When driving my E39 I often yearned for a more engaging experience. Well....Porsche and BMW listened and built the Panamera and the GT - both serve up luxury and utility, and offer engaging driving experiences in a manner that no traditional sedan could hope to fulfill. The 550i is a wonderful executive express machine but cannot match the Panamera's or GT's utility or luxury. Obviously, Porsche and BMW offer a different mix of dynamic and functional characteristics. In the end, the GT was more attuned to my needs, desires, and passions - but it is very much a niche player.
Very true - the GT, Panamera and in all likelihood the A7 too are cars that sell in the hundreds each month, not the thousands. None of them were really intended to be high volume models, and all of them were built to serve a very specific market and a very specific customer. If you happen to be that customer, there's not that much out there that will meet your needs as well.
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  #131  
Old 08-12-2011, 03:59 PM
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K-A K-A is offline
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The 5GT is not a competitor to the Panamera, and I guarantee most buyers of the Panny would not consider a 5 GT. The only similarities they have are awkward shapes, attempted nu-fad designs, and Hatchbacks. I'd closer compare the GT to the Cayenne, as the GT is practically a BMW Crossover.

The A7 is even less like the two (except again, awkward shape, attempt at a nu-fad design, and Hatcback), as it's a much sleeker, much less functional, and more "form first" Coupe-like offering of the 3. If anything, I'd say the Panny is in between the A7 and 5 GT in terms of where it's "positioned".

Also, even with stylistic qualms regarding the Panamera and A7, I'll wager that most buyers of both of those cars would find the 5 GT aesthetically offensive.
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Last edited by K-A; 08-12-2011 at 04:00 PM.
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  #132  
Old 08-12-2011, 04:16 PM
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very true - the gt, panamera and in all likelihood the a7 too are cars that sell in the hundreds each month, not the thousands. None of them were really intended to be high volume models, and all of them were built to serve a very specific market and a very specific customer. If you happen to be that customer, there's not that much out there that will meet your needs as well.
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  #133  
Old 08-12-2011, 04:37 PM
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The 5GT is not a competitor to the Panamera, and I guarantee most buyers of the Panny would not consider a 5 GT. The only similarities they have are awkward shapes, attempted nu-fad designs, and Hatchbacks. I'd closer compare the GT to the Cayenne, as the GT is practically a BMW Crossover...
Cannot speak to most - but I did - indeed, I intended to buy a Panamera and only looked at the GT (and briefly the F10 550i) as a matter of curiosity - well I surprised myself - given my negative preconceived prejudice I had with respect to the GT before I drove it. I know others on the F07 board also compared the GT head to head to the Panamera.
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Last edited by Capobranco; 08-12-2011 at 05:36 PM.
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  #134  
Old 08-12-2011, 05:58 PM
Nobrandfanboy Nobrandfanboy is offline
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Originally Posted by K-A View Post
The 5GT is not a competitor to the Panamera, and I guarantee most buyers of the Panny would not consider a 5 GT. The only similarities they have are awkward shapes, attempted nu-fad designs, and Hatchbacks. I'd closer compare the GT to the Cayenne, as the GT is practically a BMW Crossover.

The A7 is even less like the two (except again, awkward shape, attempt at a nu-fad design, and Hatcback), as it's a much sleeker, much less functional, and more "form first" Coupe-like offering of the 3. If anything, I'd say the Panny is in between the A7 and 5 GT in terms of where it's "positioned".

Also, even with stylistic qualms regarding the Panamera and A7, I'll wager that most buyers of both of those cars would find the 5 GT aesthetically offensive.
No disrespect to Capo but I have to totally agree with you. The Panamera my not have the nicest profile but after looking at it awhile I can learn to accept the design, and same with the A7 but I have looked at many 550GT's and everytime wonder what was BMW thinking? I guess BMW came to the same conclusion as us. Sorry Capo don't mean to bash your car but it is one of the more polarizing cars out on the market.
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  #135  
Old 08-12-2011, 06:25 PM
SuperTerp SuperTerp is offline
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lol the pic Needsdecaf posted is hilarious




I'd look at it from the perspective that how good is the BMW (which can only get up to 88,950 without Rims/ 6 year warranty) since its being compared to a 110-150k (mine was 146 and I wouldn't get it if it didn't have those exact options ) car

Last edited by SuperTerp; 08-12-2011 at 06:36 PM.
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  #136  
Old 08-12-2011, 07:41 PM
bm323 bm323 is offline
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Originally Posted by Nobrandfanboy View Post
No disrespect to Capo but I have to totally agree with you. The Panamera my not have the nicest profile but after looking at it awhile I can learn to accept the design, and same with the A7 but I have looked at many 550GT's and everytime wonder what was BMW thinking? I guess BMW came to the same conclusion as us. Sorry Capo don't mean to bash your car but it is one of the more polarizing cars out on the market.
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Originally Posted by Nobrandfanboy View Post
[IMG]
So does this.
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Originally Posted by Nobrandfanboy View Post
I am just commenting that you indicated that the Panamera side profile is ugly but didn't say anything about the 550GT being also ugly. The 550GT was mentioned in the articles and was compared to the Panamera was it not? So the question is why say the Panamera is ugly and not the GT unless you think the GT side profile is awesome.
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Originally Posted by Nobrandfanboy View Post
Porsche = Luxury Sports Sedan
BMW 550i/550GT 750i = Luxury Sedan

If you guys are trying to argue that the BMW is as sporty as the Porsche than you guys are fooling yourself. If you are arguing the Porsche is as comfortable as the BMW than Porsche is doing something wrong.
The reviews that copo and swajames pointed out clearly outline this.
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Originally Posted by Nobrandfanboy View Post
That side profile may not be great but still better than the 550GT!
Come on, try not to kid yourself and feign "politeness", you've been around in this thread and others bashing the F10. And being pretty arrogant at it, making remarks as follows which are uncalled for "First off you are an arrogant idiot if you think you can stay in places that I can't. Why because you drive a BMW? Why because you think you have more money? You have no idea what I do and how much money I have or don't have and what I can and cannot afford to stay at?" http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...t=#post6236071

ps your nick should have been AUDI or VAG fanboy as you joined this forum in April, precisely for this. Nobrand is quite misleading.

Last edited by bm323; 08-12-2011 at 08:32 PM.
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  #137  
Old 08-12-2011, 07:50 PM
bm323 bm323 is offline
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my Porsche is one of four cars I own and it my least driven of my four cars, but it is by far my favorite
QUOTE=dunderhi;6250273]BTW, what are the other cars that you choose to spend time with instead of your 911?[/QUOTE]
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  #138  
Old 08-12-2011, 10:00 PM
Nobrandfanboy Nobrandfanboy is offline
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Originally Posted by bm323 View Post
Come on, try not to kid yourself and feign "politeness", you've been around in this thread and others bashing the F10. And being pretty arrogant at it, making remarks as follows which are uncalled for "First off you are an arrogant idiot if you think you can stay in places that I can't. Why because you drive a BMW? Why because you think you have more money? You have no idea what I do and how much money I have or don't have and what I can and cannot afford to stay at?" http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...t=#post6236071

ps your nick should have been AUDI or VAG fanboy as you joined this forum in April, precisely for this. Nobrand is quite misleading.
You obviously only like to pinpoint the negative things I said about the F10 but why don't you put up the negative things I said about the Audi A6 and the crappy Audi dealership experience that I also indicated.
As for the other part it was an arrogant BMW owner who stated that he could stay in places that I couldn't afford and I posted that he didn't know who I was and was arrogant for such a statement.
You obviously can't read or refuse to be unbiased in your judgement. If that is how you read the thread then it is with no doubt you are just a BMW fanboy who refuses to look at everthing that was posted and just want to pinpoint the negative things I said about the F10 and about BMW. I have said as much negative things about the Audi A6 and Audi dealership experience and crappy Audi loaner cars from VW in that thread than anything negative about the F10.
For the record I said in that thread the current F10 does not have the BMW DNA that previous BMW 5ers had and the current BMW F10 is built for an older demographics. Many other BMW owners in that thread agread that the F10 is not as involving as previous BMW's so why don't you also point those BMW owners out? The only reason you pointed me out is because I have an Audi and swajames has a Porsche?
Why don't you stop being a fanboy and learn to be more subjective.

Why don't you point out what I said about the A6 in post 192 for example.
If you want to question my nick name than let me know if you have owned cars from all of these brands Audi, MB, BMW, and Lexus. If you haven't than please shut your trap about my nickname.

Last edited by Nobrandfanboy; 08-12-2011 at 10:17 PM.
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  #139  
Old 08-12-2011, 10:37 PM
bm323 bm323 is offline
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Your post #192, Audi2012A6 fanboy quote "A6 has been traditionally 3rd behind the 5er and E-class due to it just not being of the BMW and MB quality IMO. It was a harsh riding wallowy mid pack car. It was neither sporty or comfy. With the new designs of Audi and the new performance edge of the new A6 Audi will definitely increase sales if they can get more cars. The problem is Audi in Germany can't produce any more cars and they are shipping it to other countries where margins are higher than in the US." Dig the nick?

Last edited by bm323; 08-12-2011 at 10:43 PM.
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  #140  
Old 08-13-2011, 12:59 AM
pharding pharding is offline
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I have seen two Audi A7's in person and they are uber spectacular. They are absolutely exquisite and incredibly well proportioned. Both owners really liked them. One was a former E60 owner. Compared to the upcoming BMW 6er Gran Coupe the Audi A7 is a bargain. When my lease is up in 2013 I am leaning toward the Audi A7 just do something different and less common.
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  #141  
Old 08-13-2011, 04:43 AM
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K-A K-A is offline
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The A7 really is a bargain for what segment it gets you into, and the probable "exclusivity" (meaning that the car won't sell very well). That said, the Design isn't truly my thing, but it is a nice looking ride, all in all.

People will scoff at "only" 300some HP for such an expensive car, but after driving one, and then seeing the reported statistics it puts down, that 300 feels much, much faster than what it is rated at.
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  #142  
Old 08-13-2011, 06:25 AM
BobBigMan BobBigMan is offline
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The A7 really is a bargain for what segment it gets you into, and the probable "exclusivity" (meaning that the car won't sell very well). That said, the Design isn't truly my thing, but it is a nice looking ride, all in all.

People will scoff at "only" 300some HP for such an expensive car, but after driving one, and then seeing the reported statistics it puts down, that 300 feels much, much faster than what it is rated at.
I can backup the opinion that the 300hp is more than enough, having driven this car and the A6 they feel quicker than the 535i and the acceleration figures seem to confirm this. The other advantage of a smaller engine is better frontend grip as less weight is over the front axle.

But anyway why are we talking about the A7 and engine size on a thread that is here to discuss the 550xi and Panamera 4S?
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  #143  
Old 08-13-2011, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by K-A View Post
The A7 really is a bargain for what segment it gets you into, and the probable "exclusivity" (meaning that the car won't sell very well). That said, the Design isn't truly my thing, but it is a nice looking ride, all in all.

People will scoff at "only" 300some HP for such an expensive car, but after driving one, and then seeing the reported statistics it puts down, that 300 feels much, much faster than what it is rated at.
Bargain????

An A7 is a A6 with a chopped roof that sacrifices comfort in the name of style. Go sit in the back - if you can - the A7 will only accommodate children or small adults. Moreover the A6 is restricted to only a V6.

An A7 equipped goes out the door for $81,000 - that money buys a Panamera V6 with
some nice but limited options, a seven series based 550i GT with twin turbo V8- 20" wheels, sport package and other goodies, or a very compelling loaded F10 550i - the reigning king of the executive express class - and a business class ticket to Europe.

Some who are not concerned about back seat accommodations will be attracted to the sleekness of the A7. Explicitly, both the Panamera and the GT make aesthetic compromises to achieve greater utility and luxury. Audi makes fewer aesthetic compromises but sacrifices functionality. A luxury 5 door that cannot do the work is a paradox.

As a GT driver - and seemingly perennial potential Panamera customer - the A7 is a very expensive non starter. If my choice were restricted to the somewhat anonymous F10 550i v. the flamboyant A7 - I would drive away- fast - in comfort - in the 550i and never look back.

It all comes down to priorities - you pays your money and you takes your choice -

OK - I digressed but the A7, as an Audi expression of the 5 door idiom, is an interesting special case a la Panamera.
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  #144  
Old 08-13-2011, 09:02 AM
BobBigMan BobBigMan is offline
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Bargain????

An A7 is a A6 with a chopped roof that sacrifices comfort in the name of style. Go sit in the back - if you can - the A7 will only accommodate children or small adults. Moreover the A6 is restricted to only a V6.
You must be very tall to have problems sitting in the back of an A7 because I'm 5'10" and I've no problems what so ever. As for it "only" have a v6, it's the quickest v6 in it's class by a fair margin and it's times are closer to a v8 without any of the drawbacks at the pump.

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An A7 equipped goes out the door for $81,000 - that money buys a Panamera V6 with some nice but limited options, a seven series based 550i GT with twin turbo V8- 20" wheels, sport package and other goodies, or a very compelling loaded F10 550i - the reigning king of the executive express class - and a business class ticket to Europe.
Look at the options you need to tick to get it to that price, items which none of it's competitors offer and items I might add you would neither want or need. Spec it as you would a CLS and it's way cheaper.

I'm looking at the 535i, not the 550i, same car without the engine, it's a great car and something I am seriously considering but I can't agree it's better than the A6 or A7 and I doubt it's any better than the E-class either.

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Originally Posted by Capobranco View Post
Some who are not concerned about back seat accommodations will be attracted to the sleekness of the A7. Explicitly, both the Panamera and the GT make aesthetic compromises to achieve greater utility and luxury. Audi makes fewer aesthetic compromises but sacrifices functionality. A luxury 5 door that cannot do the work is a paradox.

As a GT driver - and seemingly perennial potential Panamera customer - the A7 is a very expensive non starter. If my choice were restricted to the somewhat anonymous F10 550i v. the flamboyant A7 - I would drive away- fast - in comfort - in the 550i and never look back.

It all comes down to priorities - you pays your money and you takes your choice -

OK - I digressed but the A7, as an Audi expression of the 5 door idiom, is an interesting special case a la Panamera.
Drove a 535dGT, drives more like a 7 series than a 5 series so it's driving style isn't comparable to either the Panamera or A7. Plenty of space in the rear but as ugly as sin, uglier even than the big Porsche. I can't understand why BMW needed to makes it as ugly to make it super practical?
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  #145  
Old 08-13-2011, 09:05 AM
Nobrandfanboy Nobrandfanboy is offline
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Your post #192, Audi2012A6 fanboy quote "A6 has been traditionally 3rd behind the 5er and E-class due to it just not being of the BMW and MB quality IMO. It was a harsh riding wallowy mid pack car. It was neither sporty or comfy. With the new designs of Audi and the new performance edge of the new A6 Audi will definitely increase sales if they can get more cars. The problem is Audi in Germany can't produce any more cars and they are shipping it to other countries where margins are higher than in the US." Dig the nick?
Thanks for proving my point. New A6 has a performance edge whichi it does and backed up buy your very own BMW owners. It will increase in sales but nowhere did I say it will beat the 5er in sales as you are alluding to. On top of that I said the former A6 was a harsh riding wallowy car. So again thanks for proving my point. It just seems like you can't handle the truth.
Hey why don't you call the guys above who said the A7 was a nice car a fanboy also?
Why don't you also call Capo a BMW fanboy as he is defending the 550GT like no tomorrow. These are the point of forums is to get differing peoples ideas about cars not just to cheer on BMW even though they may have built something without the BMW DNA IMO.
Do us a favor and learn to read english.

Last edited by Nobrandfanboy; 08-13-2011 at 09:14 AM.
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  #146  
Old 08-13-2011, 09:23 AM
Nobrandfanboy Nobrandfanboy is offline
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You must be very tall to have problems sitting in the back of an A7 because I'm 5'10" and I've no problems what so ever. As for it "only" have a v6, it's the quickest v6 in it's class by a fair margin and it's times are closer to a v8 without any of the drawbacks at the pump.



Look at the options you need to tick to get it to that price, items which none of it's competitors offer and items I might add you would neither want or need. Spec it as you would a CLS and it's way cheaper.

I'm looking at the 535i, not the 550i, same car without the engine, it's a great car and something I am seriously considering but I can't agree it's better than the A6 or A7 and I doubt it's any better than the E-class either.



Drove a 535dGT, drives more like a 7 series than a 5 series so it's driving style isn't comparable to either the Panamera or A7. Plenty of space in the rear but as ugly as sin, uglier even than the big Porsche. I can't understand why BMW needed to makes it as ugly to make it super practical?
Sir you hit it right on the head.
Also Audi will be releasing a S6/S7TT V8 in a year or two and hopefully a RS6 also.
IMO in this segment A7,Panamera, 550GT, and CLS, the designs are not my favorite.
A7 - wide body makes the greenhouse look pinched when viewed from the rear.
Panamera - ugly rear
550GT - uglier rear
CLS - best design of the bunch but the car overall does look aging

I would rather buy a A6 or 550i as the designs seem more balanced or even the Jaguar XFR.
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  #147  
Old 08-13-2011, 09:50 AM
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This is fun, but obviously I disagree with many of the negative comments concerning the GT's aesthetics, and would be pleased and poised to vigorously assert a positive argument in defense of the GT's design, but this is not the place for that debate.

High noon at the F07 corral, cowboys?
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Last edited by Capobranco; 08-13-2011 at 10:13 AM.
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Old 08-13-2011, 10:03 AM
Nobrandfanboy Nobrandfanboy is offline
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Originally Posted by Capobranco View Post
This is fun, but obviously I disagree with many of the negative comments concerning the GT's aesthetics, and would be pleased and poised to vigorously assert a positive argument in defense of the GT's design, but this is not the place for that debate. High noon at the F07 corral, cowboys?
Totally agree. LOL So we are going to debate about your butt? I mean your cars butt? Hahaha
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Old 08-13-2011, 10:13 AM
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dunderhi dunderhi is online now
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Originally Posted by Capobranco View Post
... the somewhat anonymous F10 550i ...
Hooray, the 550 has reached Camry status! I no longer need to worry about speed traps when my speed warning chime sounds (which happens often). I guess the LEO's will be focused on Panawagons owners for their tax collection efforts.



Below are a few options for your consideration:

Option 1

A) Panamera: $75k - $4k discount = $71k
300hp

B) 550i: $73k - $7k discount + $5k mods = $71k
Mods: Dinan (495hp, suspension reprogram), max performance tires

Option 2

A) Panamera S: $113k - $7k discount = $106k
400hp

B) M5: ~$113k - $11k discount + $4k mods = $106k
Mods: Dinan (~600hp)

Option 3

A) Panamera T: $147k - $0k discount = $147k
500hp

B) M5: ~$113k - $11k discount + $4k mod1 +$42k mod2= $147k
Mod1: Dinan (~600hp)
Mod2: A dedicated track car (or some other toy)


I know which options I would choose. How about you?
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  #150  
Old 08-13-2011, 10:22 AM
Nobrandfanboy Nobrandfanboy is offline
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Originally Posted by dunderhi View Post
Hooray, the 550 has reached Camry status! I no longer need to worry about speed traps when my speed warning chime sounds (which happens often). I guess the LEO's will be focused on Panawagons owners for their tax collection efforts.



Below are a few options for your consideration:

Option 1

A) Panamera: $75k - $4k discount = $71k
300hp

B) 550i: $73k - $7k discount + $5k mods = $71k
Mods: Dinan (495hp, suspension reprogram), max performance tires

Option 2

A) Panamera S: $113k - $7k discount = $106k
400hp

B) M5: ~$113k - $11k discount + $4k mods = $106k
Mods: Dinan (~600hp)

Option 3

A) Panamera T: $147k - $0k discount = $147k
500hp

B) M5: ~$113k - $11k discount + $4k mod1 +$42k mod2= $147k
Mod1: Dinan (~600hp)
Mod2: A dedicated track car (or some other toy)


I know which options I would choose. How about you?
IMO this is a hard decision because no one has driven the M5 yet? If it was based on the Panamera vs 550i stock vs stock as it isn't fair to judge a stock vs modded car, then I would pick the Panamera. Reason is handles better and is more exclusive and prestigious. When shelling out that kind of money the latter two reasons for me atleast does play into the equation. I think if you have to add the mod into the equation then the choice is pretty obvious.
For the last option though I would refrain from choosing one as the M5 is not out yet and I would like to test drive one and see if BMW fixed the steering feel on it before passing judgement.

Last edited by Nobrandfanboy; 08-13-2011 at 10:25 AM.
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