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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #26  
Old 08-05-2011, 02:35 PM
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Stealth.Pilot Stealth.Pilot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
If you get M-Sport I would highly recommend ARS. It's a great system that really works well. The problem is DDC on the F10 since it's a very soft base setup that is electronically firmed up with the dampers when you flip the switch to sportier settings. The problem is that not even Sport+ is able to hide the soft long springs and secondly the feeling is artificial and do not give the same dynamic, predictable and connected feel as a well tuned passive setup. My comment about not much sport in the sport pkg. is due to that the seats are not sporty and neither is the steering wheel or the suspension. You get a lot of complexity though that makes it more difficult and more expensive to add sportier suspension components and there is a bigger risk for very costly failures down the line. I do prefer a firm, very controlled and sporty ride though and never used comfort or normal mode which make it even more useless for me, others might like the more floaty isolated luxo ride and find the softer mode a reason to buy this car. I just don't understand how they belong in the sports packages...

One note of caution though, we don't know if BMW have retuned the DDC setup for 2012. Perhaps they've moved the modes a couple of notches towards sport with shorter stiffer springs and retuned DDC.
I wonder if it can be tuned by either changing the springs (which would presumably maintain the adjustability but change the range), or by reprogramming the controller. On the Lexus LS there are aftermarket suspension controllers which are pretty good for firming up the ride at low speeds.
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  #27  
Old 08-05-2011, 02:47 PM
solstice solstice is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth.Pilot View Post
I wonder if it can be tuned by either changing the springs (which would presumably maintain the adjustability but change the range), or by reprogramming the controller. On the Lexus LS there are aftermarket suspension controllers which are pretty good for firming up the ride at low speeds.
Ir think one reader did add stiffer springs and reported a good improvement. I would be vary though since the active dampers probably need tuning as well. And when you pay the coin for all of this it makes more sense to me to instead save the sport pkg money and instead mod. the base passive configuration which should be way easier and cheaper.

Last edited by solstice; 08-05-2011 at 02:48 PM.
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  #28  
Old 08-05-2011, 03:12 PM
Houseofpang Houseofpang is offline
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Maybe use the money to get the KW v3 (the one coming out that will work with DHP), get good cornering and a drop out of it too. But of course the level of stiffness can't be auto adjusted like ARS.
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  #29  
Old 08-05-2011, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Stealth.Pilot View Post
What's great about BMW is that the car is great at everything. Great on the rough old roads of the city center, great on the smooth autobahns, it balances comfort and handling. A fixed firm setup maybe sporty but it won't deliver the complete package.

Personally I'm committed to DDC and ARS. It's the best setup IMO.
Completely agree.
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  #30  
Old 08-05-2011, 06:41 PM
chelseafc chelseafc is offline
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Solstice, your comment about stiffer/shorter springs got me thinking. When I had my E60 M5, I added a set of Eibach Pro Kit springs. Front dropped 1.5", rear .7". The EDC (known now as DDC??) settings basically moved up a notch...no lights illuminated on the EDC button became one light (think comfort to sport), and one light illuminated became two (sport to sport II). Both lights illuminated rendered a ride similar to a 997 which is waaaay to stiff on the tough New England roads. Note that EDC did work perfectly with the new Eibachs. However, this doesn't really solve the body roll issue, which has more to do with sway bars and bushings...I suppose this is where ARS comes in?

So to lend some credence to the theory of shorter & stiffer springs (which would also conveniently add a lower ride height), this might be a good solution. I really have to see how Sport+ feels but given the fact I'd like a 1" drop all around on a 550 xDrive anyway, I'd end up doing springs. I would be surprised if DDC wouldn't work with Eibach's or H&R's. Now just to find someone who makes a shorter, stiffer spring for the xDrive.
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  #31  
Old 08-06-2011, 01:20 AM
solstice solstice is offline
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A reader "bikerboy" installed ACS springs on an Xdrive, DDC and ars equipped car and is happy with it, you should be able to find the thread with a search. Though like me he never uses comfort and normal modes so again it questions the value of spending the significant coin for all that complexity if you are a sports oriented driver. As a note I was offered the competition pkg for free on my M3 but declined since I really don't like EDC. I find it inferior and pretty useless for my preferences.
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  #32  
Old 08-06-2011, 09:25 AM
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Needsdecaf Needsdecaf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
If you get M-Sport I would highly recommend ARS. It's a great system that really works well. The problem is DDC on the F10 since it's a very soft base setup that is electronically firmed up with the dampers when you flip the switch to sportier settings. The problem is that not even Sport+ is able to hide the soft long springs and secondly the feeling is artificial and do not give the same dynamic, predictable and connected feel as a well tuned passive setup. My comment about not much sport in the sport pkg. is due to that the seats are not sporty and neither is the steering wheel or the suspension. You get a lot of complexity though that makes it more difficult and more expensive to add sportier suspension components and there is a bigger risk for very costly failures down the line. I do prefer a firm, very controlled and sporty ride though and never used comfort or normal mode which make it even more useless for me, others might like the more floaty isolated luxo ride and find the softer mode a reason to buy this car. I just don't understand how they belong in the sports packages...

One note of caution though, we don't know if BMW have retuned the DDC setup for 2012. Perhaps they've moved the modes a couple of notches towards sport with shorter stiffer springs and retuned DDC.
Keep in mind, that the M5 will have DDC but not ARS......
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  #33  
Old 08-06-2011, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth.Pilot View Post
I wonder if it can be tuned by either changing the springs (which would presumably maintain the adjustability but change the range), or by reprogramming the controller. On the Lexus LS there are aftermarket suspension controllers which are pretty good for firming up the ride at low speeds.
It can be retuned. The Alpina B5 retuns the steering, transmission and suspension dynamics.

Wish we could get that here.
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  #34  
Old 08-06-2011, 01:45 PM
chelseafc chelseafc is offline
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Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
Keep in mind, that the M5 will have DDC but not ARS......
Yeah but it will probably have beefier sway bars and bushings, right? I'm one for mechanical stuff where it can be used. Seems to be a nice way to help reduce roll without having to spring for the $2500 ARS option. Even if the mechanical solution isn't as effective as ARS, it still would be better than nothing.

Plus perhaps Dinan will come out with a strut tower brace?
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  #35  
Old 08-06-2011, 05:20 PM
solstice solstice is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
Keep in mind, that the M5 will have DDC but not ARS......
Yup as the M3 with competition package, unfortunately I highly doubt that the 2012 regular F10s will share a single suspension component, (least of all sway bars and springs) with the M5 so this doesn't really mean much if anything. I suspect that ars is probably the cheapest and likely only flat cornering option that retains warranty if you want to go for DDC in a non M F10.

Last edited by solstice; 08-06-2011 at 05:22 PM.
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  #36  
Old 08-06-2011, 05:58 PM
chelseafc chelseafc is offline
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I'm afraid of ordering the 2500USD ARS option only to have it not really feel like it's a flat handling car.
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  #37  
Old 08-06-2011, 06:09 PM
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Stealth.Pilot Stealth.Pilot is offline
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Originally Posted by chelseafc View Post
I'm afraid of ordering the 2500USD ARS option only to have it not really feel like it's a flat handling car.
The 2011 sport package car you tested had Dynamic Damper Control and ARS. If you liked driving that car, then you will like the sport package plus ARS option on the 2012.

The unknown is not ordering ARS because nobody knows what a sport package car without ARS handles like.
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  #38  
Old 08-06-2011, 07:39 PM
chelseafc chelseafc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth.Pilot View Post
The 2011 sport package car you tested had Dynamic Damper Control and ARS. If you liked driving that car, then you will like the sport package plus ARS option on the 2012.

The unknown is not ordering ARS because nobody knows what a sport package car without ARS handles like.
The regular (non M Sport) sport package for '11 includes ARS? I know M Sport does, but I wasn't sure about regular sport package.
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  #39  
Old 08-06-2011, 08:16 PM
Sophisto Sophisto is offline
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ARS is a very good working system.
It adds driving abilities to the car.
I do not have it, my car drives very comfortable as it is.
I do not drive as aggressive as described by other posters and I am very content with the comfortable ride the standard suspension delivers, it is more than adequate for my driving style.

Last edited by Sophisto; 08-06-2011 at 08:38 PM.
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  #40  
Old 08-06-2011, 08:34 PM
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alewifebp alewifebp is offline
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Originally Posted by chelseafc View Post
The regular (non M Sport) sport package for '11 includes ARS? I know M Sport does, but I wasn't sure about regular sport package.
As long as it had DHP. Unfortunately none of us have a point a reference of what a sport or M sport package equipped car with DDC will be without ARS, since it was never available separately.
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  #41  
Old 08-19-2011, 02:52 AM
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So, in a few hours I will be at the dealership ordering a 2012 F10 535I with the M Sports package. This will be a highway / trip car. I have other cars for the twisties. From what I have read here, the Active Roll Stabilization is more for body roll on turns and for those looking for a tighter flatter feel while spirited driving. This is not what I am looking for. I am ordering a well optioned car, I am just not sure about an extra $2500 for something I may not benefit from. Thoughts? TIA
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  #42  
Old 08-19-2011, 04:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Chuck W. View Post
So, in a few hours I will be at the dealership ordering a 2012 F10 535I with the M Sports package. This will be a highway / trip car. I have other cars for the twisties. From what I have read here, the Active Roll Stabilization is more for body roll on turns and for those looking for a tighter flatter feel while spirited driving. This is not what I am looking for. I am ordering a well optioned car, I am just not sure about an extra $2500 for something I may not benefit from. Thoughts? TIA
I'm also on the fence in this one
the driving I will be doing will be commute in florida taking the highway
I did try the base suspension and it was fine
I have only few days to decide
will I have option regret????
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  #43  
Old 08-19-2011, 04:31 AM
PsychDoc1 PsychDoc1 is offline
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Pass on it. The regular suspension is just superb.
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  #44  
Old 08-19-2011, 05:42 AM
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If not attacking twisties or speed lane change, the base suspension is fine. Just make sure the SAT is ticked.

Last edited by bm323; 08-19-2011 at 05:45 AM.
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  #45  
Old 08-19-2011, 06:19 AM
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I see it as..... it's easier not to regret spending extra $2500 over the life of the vehicle vs saving $2500 now but not having the option to install ARS later.
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  #46  
Old 08-19-2011, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by bm323 View Post
If not attacking twisties or speed lane change, the base suspension is fine. Just make sure the SAT is ticked.
done
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  #47  
Old 08-19-2011, 11:17 AM
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I see it as..... it's easier not to regret spending extra $2500 over the life of the vehicle vs saving $2500 now but not having the option to install ARS later.
Ummmm
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  #48  
Old 08-19-2011, 02:25 PM
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You have to test drive the car to decide. Then, you should ask yourself "Do I use this for most of my driving?"

I test drove it. I barely felt the difference when I pushed it on freeway curves. For 95% of my daily driving, I will not need it.

I passed on it. I only get SAT.
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  #49  
Old 08-19-2011, 04:08 PM
vkperigord vkperigord is offline
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Originally Posted by bodonx View Post
You have to test drive the car to decide. Then, you should ask yourself "Do I use this for most of my driving?"

I test drove it. I barely felt the difference when I pushed it on freeway curves. For 95% of my daily driving, I will not need it.

I passed on it. I only get SAT.
What is SAT?
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  #50  
Old 08-19-2011, 05:12 PM
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What is SAT?
sport automatic transmission or SAT
will get you a nice shifter and shift paddles on your steering wheel only for 500.00
superb, Superb shifting and response, when in sport
the best option for less
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