
|
|
||||||
|
E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki |
|
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
#1
|
||||
|
||||
|
Making sense of INPA, EDIABAS, NCSExpert, NCS Dummies, DIS/GT1, EasyDIS, & Progman
EDIT: PLEASE IMPROVE! We are constantly updating this first post, as new information comes in (until it won't let us update it anymore).
Kudos: Many people collaborated on this BMW factory & dealer software explanation, especially Quick99Si who ran through all the installs and created a nice collective site for download (including combining & compressing the RAR files to the max!) & RDL who provided clarification on the unintuitive software intricacies. Tribal knowledge requested to make organized sense of recommended E39 factory/dealer diagnostic hardware & software. Based on the available diagnostic tools and in concert with the various BMW coding forums let's try to meaningfully organize the following E39-specific diagnostic-related scanning, coding, and programming tools & interfaces for the entire E39 tribe to benefit. -----
ORGANIZATION: (please correct as needed!)
DEFINITIONS: (please correct as needed!) Note: Each tool is roughly categorized as: - Factory === Tools written by and for the BMW factory - Dealer === Tools used by the dealer (supplied by the Factory) - Professional === Tools used by professional mechanics (often > $1,000) - Aftermarket === Tools intended for use by BMW aficionados (e.g., >$500 Carsoft Ultimate Home Edition) - DIY === Tools intended for use by BMW dilettantes (e.g., <$100 OBD scanners) - Hacker === Modified versions of the above (often out of China, often in German, often freely downloaded with no support, often with no cables supplied) - HW === Hardware- SW === Software
ACTIONS:
Summary of References: - INPA, EDIABAS, NCS Expert, DIS, EasyDIS, Progman, & other BMW factory & dealer programming, coding, and diagnostic software (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) & related BMW diagnostic tools forums (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) & the most often recommended BMW diagnostic tools & cable interfaces (1) Note: Key users' posts to pay close attention to (alphabetically):Aca84, DavidMC, Dracon, Quick99Si, Randomly, & RDL (on a variety of forums). [ Temporary backup 09/02/2011 ] [ Temporary backup 09/13/2011 ] [ Temporary backup 09/29/2011 ] Last edited by bluebee; 09-29-2011 at 10:35 PM. |
|
#2
|
|||
|
|||
|
How about Auto Xray scan tools?
__________________
Ed in San Jose '97 540i 6 speed aspensilber over aubergine leather. Build date 3/97. Golden Gate Chapter BMW CCA Nr 62319. |
|
#3
|
||||
|
||||
|
Thanks. I added it to the original post, along with a dozen others I found while searching & reading reviews like:
- General BMW > REVIEW: Autoxray 4000, and Code Reader for sale! Last edited by bluebee; 08-21-2011 at 07:38 AM. |
|
#4
|
||||
|
||||
|
Shouldn't MODIS be MODIC - a forerunner to GT1 I believe (used by main dealers some time ago)?
There's also PA soft BMW scanner. It reads and resets most fault codes (inc. airbag) but its codes are largely indecipherable.
__________________
I maybe paranoid but that doesn't mean they're not after me! Last edited by Quackers; 08-12-2011 at 11:07 PM. |
|
#5
|
||||
|
||||
|
Adding MoDiC & PA Soft
Quote:
In fact, it's clearly listed in post #10 over here as MoDiC: MoDiC = Mobile Diagnostic Computer The reason I had not found it in my prior search (before creating this thread) in the BMW glossary was that I was (errantly) looking for Modis (not modic) based on this post. Thanks. I'll update both the glossary & the OP of this thread. Good catch on an omission! I'm getting a bit confused, because, googling, I find these two seem to be related: Searching Bimmerfest titles, it looks like it's oft discussed... so ... I'll read these PA Soft bimmerfest threads to figure out 'what' it is and then add it to the OP for others to review and correct as needed:
Quote:
P.A. Software BMW Scanner v1.3.6 vs P.A. Software BMW Scanner v1.4.0 Quote:
Last edited by bluebee; 08-13-2011 at 07:02 AM. |
|
#6
|
||||
|
||||
|
Confused? I am amazed that you can find anything with the amount of links you must keep. What do you do with it all? You must have a serious filing system :-)
For PA Soft 1.3.6 users there is this site which may help sorting some codes out http://endtuning.com/bmwcodes.html
__________________
I maybe paranoid but that doesn't mean they're not after me! |
|
#7
|
|||
|
|||
|
The PA soft scanner 1.36 is a real PITA, I would avoid this scanner as it is not user friendly and very fussy about what machine it will run on.
but there are lots of diagnostic software and interface's out there, just go for what suits your needs/budget |
|
#8
|
||||
|
||||
|
I just got a ODBII cable to usb and PA soft 1.4.0. I plan on using the cable and various programs to try to figure out the whole auto windows up with key fob reprogramming for my car. I plan on doing this next weekend when I'll have three days to work on it. In the mean time, I'll be loading programs and testing connectivity from car and computer. The only problem I see now, is that most of these programs require serial port connection to OBDII and not usb. Might have to purchase a different cable and a usb to serial port connector. I'll post what I'm able to do if it works or not, to assist others who are trying so that we can all make heads or tails of this. Thanks for the thread start.
|
|
#9
|
||||
|
||||
|
I inquired as to what ECUtools cable I should use, and they reported back with this:
- 4 in 1 BMW Diagnostic Interface (P/N 3505025) Last edited by bluebee; 09-05-2011 at 04:06 PM. |
|
#10
|
||||
|
||||
|
I too need a cable that will work with EDIABAS/INPA. I have Carsoft that has a cable but it won't work with the other programs. I just want to program my ABS module.
__________________
I discovered I scream the same way whether I'm about to be eaten by a great white shark or if a piece of seaweed touches my foot. |
|
#11
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
The main reasons the Carsoft 6.5 cables stink are:
This site sells a the latest "INPA/Ediabas K+DCAN USB Interface" cable for a whopping $125 and says it "Works with INPA, SSS, Progman and others"; but my E39 doesn't need D-CAN capability so I should be able to make do with a less expensive INPA/EDIABAS cable. I'm not sure if my E39 needs K-CAN or PT-CAN (I need to add these to the glossary above, whatever they are) based on what this cable purports to support: Quote:
Can someone clarify the cable options for the E39 using these diagnostic tools? Note: This BMW cable FAQ may help to answer the questions (I'm in the process of reading it). Last edited by bluebee; 08-16-2011 at 01:58 PM. |
|
#12
|
||||
|
||||
|
Doing some research, the problem here is that there is too much information.
Perhaps this is a decent summary: - Getting Started with Coding your BMW Quote:
|
|
#13
|
||||
|
||||
|
If I can't get a cable for less than $100, I'll just have the dealer code mine but I really would prefer to have my own set-up.
__________________
I discovered I scream the same way whether I'm about to be eaten by a great white shark or if a piece of seaweed touches my foot. |
|
#14
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
Serial port versions price + shipping start ~$25 and most also include a round 20 pin adaptor used up to '98 (or so, I think) in addition to the OBD connector. USB versions ~$45 but none seem to have the 20 pin adaptor; OBD only. If you need it the 20 pin adaptor too, search "bmw obd" It will turn up > 2000 items. Sort by price + shipping - all the less expensive items are 20 pin round to OBD adaptors for $5 to $10 delivered. As noted above, E39s do not need the D-CAN version which started around 2006 (I think, but not sure) D-CAN versions start at ~$60. So far as I know, D-CAN cables also support the K-line that E39s use. Regards RDL |
|
#15
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
Normally I'm good at searching - but - in this case, searching just brings everyone's confusion to the fore! Including mine. Taking your post as my starting outline, are 'these' the available E39-related cable types?
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Last edited by bluebee; 08-16-2011 at 10:53 PM. |
|
#16
|
|||
|
|||
|
[QUOTE=bluebee;6260670]My frustrating problem is that I can't make any sense out of the cables (yet)!
Normally I'm good at searching - but - in this case, searching just brings everyone's confusion to the fore! Including mine. Taking your post as my starting outline, are 'these' the available E39-related cable types?
That sentence confuses me because I don't know what a K-Line is (yet) but I had thought that the E39 didn't use D-CAN ... so I'm going to have to add these to the glossary in post 1 so we can make some sense out of the words "K-Line" and "D-CAN". ... image deleted ... /QUOTE] Bluebee Sorry I threw you a curve with the reference to K-line. What you need for your 2002 is an OBD cable that claims BMW INPA compatibility. Although it may not be stated these will be K-line cables. Your 2002 does not have the 20 pin round plug (commonly called ADS) used in earlier E39s. If you wish, buy the more expensive D-CAN cable so you can connect to newer models too, they are backward compatible. There have been about a dozen signalling protocols commonly used by various manufacturers for OBD and OEM proprietary ports. The various protocols use different pins in the plug. For the E39, BMW chose a protocol that uses the so called K-line; one of the ISO 9141 versions I think. The more recent models use a flavour of CAN, which also/still uses the OBD port. The most recent BMW models have an additional port, MOST, which is a very high speed fibre optic system. Models with MOST still have the electrically based OBD port for diagnostics as mandated by law. Some people use ADS as shorthand for the 20 pin round plug found in the engine bay on earlier E39s (and other models) before OBD was mandated by law. Apparently this terminology is not accurate. I've seen expanations that ADS is a diagnostic head used by BMW, but since it was used only with the 20 pin plug the the association has become established. Some, but not all, early E39s with the 20 pin port need virtual ADS software (trick EDIABAS, INPA, DIS, etc. into thinking an ADS head is attached) in order to access all modules in the car. The BMW dealer systems use a diagnostic head (there have been several versions over the years) which has provision for additional leads that turns DIS into a full featured, multi-function voltage, current, oscilloscope, etc. diagnostic system in addition to DTCs, coding and programming. These heads cost hundreds to thousands; only the exceptionally keen DIYers go to the expense. It seems to me that the reference to INPA is used for the following reason. The only "tricky" part (and it is actually easy if you follow the instructions) getting started is configuring EDIABAS for the cable you have. EDIABAS is automatically installed with INPA. Once EDIABAS can talk to the car through the cable all the BMW software can: INPA, NCS Expert, WinKFP, DIS, Progman etc. Since INPA is simple to install, does not require configuration itself and won't change anything other than clear DTCs and adaptation values, INPA is an easy, safe method to verify that you're in business for any of the BMW software. I've no experience with other cables. But people in the diagnostic software forum describe how Carsoft, Modified VAGcom KKL, J2534, etc. cables can be made to work on BMWs with varying degrees of customization and difficulty. If you subscribe to the KISS philosophy, buy "BMW INPA" compatible cables; OBD only or with extra 20 pin round adaptor (that plugs into the OBD cable) depending on the car's model year. Regards RDL |
|
#17
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
I added EVERYTHING you noted into the original post. EDIT: I subsequently deleted the rest of this post, to save users' valuable reading time, since RDL quoted it below. Last edited by bluebee; 08-21-2011 at 07:35 AM. |
|
#18
|
||||
|
||||
|
this is the best interface to use with BMW software like INPA , NCS Expert , GT1 and Progman
BMW INPA / Ediabas K+DCAN USB Interface 119$ buy from this seller , top quality Top-rated seller automotive-tool dont look for cheap , look for good GL Last edited by champaign777; 08-17-2011 at 02:28 PM. |
|
#19
|
||||
|
||||
|
Which is the 'right' cable for a 2002 BMW E39?
Googling on this, I added all the cables I could find into the first post above, so others can find them easier than I did.
Last edited by bluebee; 08-21-2011 at 07:40 AM. |
|
#20
|
||||
|
||||
|
automotive-tool
He has both new and old modification Just ask him i need old for E39 , you will also need drivers which is on his online site the new is for 2009+ cars this cable supports 1998-2009 BMW in 2 mods K-LINE ( old aka E39 ) and D-CAN ( new > 2004 ) Last edited by champaign777; 08-17-2011 at 03:10 PM. |
|
#21
|
|||
|
|||
|
Wow, that was a long post.
My comments are in red font Regards RDL Quote:
This is also very good to know to simplify the software problem!
That's what's confusing me about the plethora of cables!
I'm slowly getting to the 'simple' answer in my brain!
Bullet 4 "run diagnostics ... " should be after bullet 5. Except however, INPA does diagnostics. BTW, given that factory/dealer software list ... what ORDER would you install the software (after first installing INPA/EDIABAS first)? For me personally after INPA for my E39 1 NCS Expert and NCS for Dummies => enable coding and installation is easy. But be carefull, get help on the forum if you're not sure before using it. 2 EasyDIS for the diagnostic support and aids. Plus it will do CIP and module programming updates if you wish. Also do resets after component replacement, e.g. steering position sensor. Excercise the ABS if you have to do a brake bleed after draining the system dry. etc. etc. It was the dealer software while our E39s were current models. I believe that the data files are circa 2005. I have installed Progman V32 too, but haven't used it other than to verify it works. It is a pretty face on EasyDIS but does only coding and programming. One still needs EasyDIS for diagnostics. Doing all over again, I wouldn't bother. If I had a newer model it would probably be worthwhile for the newer data files. [/QUOTE] |
|
#22
|
||||
|
||||
|
I'll make 'this' one short!
![]() I spent about an hour and a half including EVERYTHING you wrote back into the first post of this thread! Thanks for all the clarifications! Also, I see the PMs so I'll respond separately in those (from Quick99Si and RDL) as PMs. |
|
#23
|
|||
|
|||
|
What software is required/recommended for the typical user after having acquired the following:
1. EasyDIS - EasyDIS-base-44-v1.0.nrg image file 2. GT1 - GT1_v44_programs.iso image file 3. INPA - ediabas-6.4.3-full.nrg image and INPA_2010 5.02 update 4. NCSEXPERT - NCSEXPER(T) and NCS_made_easy_by_REVTOR 5. PROGMAN/SSS - disks 1 & 2, plus the base How relevant or useful are the various Carsoft versions and the newer versions of GT1 (v39, v52, etc..)?
__________________
540i - Stock/Sport / 6MT / 13.9@100mph WS6 - 231/234 / 6MT / 4.10 / 410rwhp ITR - 262/262 / 5MT / 12.2:1 / 9600rpm 540i/6 Sport, Jet Black, Style 65, LED tail, DICE+GROM USB, !CDV, Redline MT-90, M1 0-40w |
|
#24
|
|||
|
|||
|
Guys, I need some help if someone could. I already have INPA and the rest of the stuff, but they are old versions and I don't have programming files.I just bought a used T61 with the software already loaded. It also has Gt1 and Progman VM. What is the best way to update everything(INPA, NCS, Ediabas) and if I download the files from another file share site would they just migrate where they need to go or is there a special trick to load them onto INPA and NCS...
|
|
#25
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...play.php?f=202 EDIT Oops, the link above is incorrect. This is the correct one http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...play.php?f=233 Sorry about that. There are several guys there who are really expert in this field. And dozens who are very knowledgeable. You're unlikely to find any more than a (small) handful of people here familiar with the software. No offense to the E39ers in this forum ![]() BTW, the Progman that you mention does have programming files. It's sole purpose is programming and coding - no diagnostics. You might also keep in mind that BMW does not likely devote much time or effort on updating E39 data files any longer. You probably already have the most recent available, even though your E39 files might be a few years old. OTOH, if you're also interested in more recent models an update may be in order. Good luck. Regards RDL Last edited by rdl; 08-25-2011 at 11:16 AM. |
|
| Bookmarks |
| Tags |
| acronyms, carsoft, diagnostic tools, glossary, inpa, ncs |
| Forum Navigation | |||||||
|
Today's Posts Search | ||||||
| Thread Tools | |
| Display Modes | |
|
|