Making sense of INPA, EDIABAS, NCSExpert, NCS Dummies, DIS/GT1, EasyDIS, & Progman

Originally Posted by bmwtech1

It also has Gt1 and Progman VM

What does "Progman VM" mean?

Does VM stand for "virtual machine" (as in Linux under VMware on Windows)?

Originally Posted by bmwtech1

What is the best way to update everything(INPA, NCS, Ediabas)

QuickSi99 is doing a great job obtaining and summarizing the software needed. RDL is helping tremendously to understand the software. Aca84 and others are pitching in. Everything they've said (either in the threads or in PMs) is being updated to the first post of this thread (where applicable).

Admittedly, it still may take a while to get this stuff up and running ... but ... when it is ... the hope is that bimmerfest has it's own high-quality DIY for doing the diagnostics!

This has been a great help thanks you

Originally Posted by Orionstrident

This has been a great help thanks you

Glad you liked it.

I've spend probably a dozen hours or more just on the first post - as it's intended to be the most complete E39-related summary of the diagnostic tools, interfaces, software, and procedures on the planet.

Others should continue to review post #1 above to help catch inevitable errors (since I don't know what I'm doing ... I'm just piecing the story together using the search button).

I found this cheap GT1. Naturally, I am skeptical. Think this is legit? Something missing here?

http://www.xcar360.com/bmw-scanner-bmw-gt1-sss-dis.html

Hi, so much information’s and I get confuse,
Once again, which cable I can use for 2008 E65?
Thank in advance.
Mark.

Originally Posted by gmprof

Hi, so much information’s and I get confuse,
Once again, which cable I can use for 2008 E65?
Thank in advance.
Mark.

Ask in this link/forum.
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...play.php?f=233
The guys there will be familiar with E65s.

BTW in post 25 of this thread I posted a link (I thought) for Diagnostic Forum that was incorrect. I've corrected/edited post 25. Sorry for any confusion.

Regards
RDL

Originally Posted by gmprof

which cable I can use for 2008 E65?

I'm a little disappointed in that question as it's actually covered in the very first post of this thread (even though this thread is just for the E39).

So pardon me if I ask with suspicion: Did you even look at the first post?

For example, if I simply do a search for E65 in that first post, I find the following quote:

1^st choice: BMW INPA EDIABAS K-Line USB Interface (e.g., USB K-Line, aka "BMW INPA EDIABAS K+CAN USB OBD2")

• $50 1, 2, 3
• Models that use the K-Line OBD interfaces are:
• - E87, E30 E36 E46 E83 and new E90, E34 E39 E53 and older E60 E61, E63 E64, E38 E65 E66, E31 E52, E53, E85 E52, R50 R52 R53

Not only did we tell you exactly what cable to use, we even gave you a couple of suppliers, and a price.

What more do you want from us?

Originally Posted by rdl

BTW in post 25 of this thread I posted a link (I thought) for Diagnostic Forum that was incorrect. I've corrected/edited post 25.

Hi RDL,

While there are multiple diagnostic forums, e.g.,
- BMW diagnostic, coding, & programming forums (1) (2) (3) (4) (5)

It's hard enough to figure out what to do for just the E39, let alone for every BMW on the planet (which those forums cover in detail).

So, for the BASIC understanding, it's still a good idea for us to cover the E39 here: the goal is to have a step-by-step DIY for 'just' the E39 (which post #1 above is working up to).

Now, if someone asks about the E65, it's perfectly fine to point THEM to the forums (note though, that we accidentally answered the guy's question before he even asked for it ... he just didn't bother looking).

Originally Posted by mrshort77

I found this cheap GT1. Naturally, I am skeptical. Think this is legit?

According to the web site you referenced, they're selling, for $355:

1. GT1 main
2. Network cable
3. GT1 for vehicles with 20pin diagnostic connector
4. GT1 for vehicles with OBII diagnostic connector
5. BMW GT1 SSS v39 DIS v57 HDD

We know you can get the cable for under $120, and you can get the DIS v57 for free. Likewise, the SSS v39 is, I guess, Progman v39, which also is available for free.

Since all you (really) need is the cable & software, I'm not sure which of the items above are actually necessary.

Personally, for the E39, I'd use the OLDER software (as RDL has often stated) and which is listed completely in post #1 of this thread, but which I cut out the relevant quotes below:

• 6^th EasyDIS v44 (and the READTHISFIRST document from DavidMC)
• 7^th Progman v32

Since I am new to this, its all a learning experience, I guess a commercial GT1 runs in the $1000+ range. Actually I am working on an 2000 E53. Seems like the procedures would probably be largely the same. I did wind up just buying a cable: http://www.ebay.com/itm/200642313974. Not sure if the packaged software will be of any use, but since its overseas, I have a month to sort out what I really need.

Originally Posted by mrshort77

Since I am new to this, its all a learning experience, I guess a commercial GT1 runs in the $1000+ range. Actually I am working on an 2000 E53. Seems like the procedures would probably be largely the same. I did wind up just buying a cable: http://www.ebay.com/itm/200642313974. Not sure if the packaged software will be of any use, but since its overseas, I have a month to sort out what I really need.

Commercially the last GT1 I bought from BMW was $24K and change. We were quoted $52k IIRC to upgrade to a Gen III setup (SSS) which is when we bought a second autologic instead. ($12k) The GT1 hasn't been for sale new from BMW for about 8 years though and in that time the software has been cracked and offered up on laptops right and left. So next time your Indy want's to charge you to scan a newer car it's likely b/c they have a large investment in factory level diagnostics.


The Factory GT1 for those that may have only ever seen the software installed on a laptop, is the touchscreen tablet on the black toolbox to the right of my toolbox (the blue one)

Originally Posted by mrshort77

its all a learning experience

None of us were born knowing this ... so it's a learning experience for all of us.

The first post of this thread is 'intended' to shorten the learning curve. We need help; but we're fixing it every day (Quick99si, RDL, aca84, me, etc.)

Originally Posted by mrshort77

I did wind up just buying a cable: http://www.ebay.com/itm/200642313974 .

Whenever we quote ebay, we should show a screenshot so that this thread has value long after that particular sale is over.

Here's the screenshot (as a courtesy to the reader):

Originally Posted by bimmerteck

The Factory GT1 ... is the touchscreen tablet on the black toolbox

Nice. Very nice.

It's instructive to see the tool where it would be in action.

I took the liberty of annotating your wonderful picture with the pertinent information about what software 'would' likely have been on it during the E39 era.

Originally Posted by bluebee

Nice. Very nice.

It's instructive to see the tool where it would be in action.

I took the liberty of annotating your wonderful picture with the pertinent information about what software 'would' likely have been on it during the E39 era.

It's also important to note that the software was designed from the ground up to be on a touchscreen tablet so occasionally you will encounter "button" issues in some screens when running the GT1 software on a laptop with a mouse.

Thanks to this thread and several other sources, I can confirm the following all work together in perfect unison:

1. Dell D620 laptop - 2.0ghz core 2 duo, 2gb ram, 120gb hdd, extended battery, and most important: serial port! I can get these for $220/ea if you need one, but I'd recommend getting a D600/D610 if you're on a budget (~$150). The 2gb of ram helps a LOT when running GT1 in a virtual machine, and PROGMAN requires 80gb by itself so 100+ gb is recommended if you want it all. Otherwise, I recommend 40gb, or a 20gb drive + 16gb flash drive to trasnfer installation files. The Thinkpad equivalents are good too (T30 or similar).

2. BMW INPA / Ediabas OBD & ADS Interface - $80 on eBay, delievered in ~7 days from China. You're going to need a serial extension cable as well (m-f). Read the ad and you will see that the seller even recommends getting a cheaper interface cable that he sells in case you want to cut down on compatibility. I wanted to most widely compatible cable for under $100 and ended up with this one, and it's your call which you go with. See Bluebee's post above for detailed info on cable options.

3. INPA/EDIABAS install package (v6.4.3) - This installs, among other things, EDIABAS API, INPA, NCSEXPERT, etc. Download it from the 4shared site linked in Bluebee's post above. I have it hosted on my FTP server as well which will make the downloads 100x quicker.

4. NCS MADE EASY by Revtor - Very small file, very useful helper program. You're nuts if you're not referring to this while using NCSEXPERT. Same as above, it's on the 4shared storage space as well as my FTP.

5. EasyDIS & GT1 v44 - This isntallation is much more involved because it requires the setting up of a virtual machine as well as configuring it for proper networking with the EDIABAS server running on your machine. You NEED to have INPA fully functional before starting this. You also need some patience while reviewing the how-to documents. Most of the information is very detailed and image heavy, so even a novice computer user will manage. I myself have referred to 4 installation documents for this (will host these as well, but they're already publicly available) but 2 are only needed really.

6. Required 3rd party software: WinRAR, Daemon Tools Lite, VMWare 6.0.3-80004. You don't NEED Alcohol 120%, Nero etc. I stuck win Windows XP but it seems that Vista/7 and 64-bit versions will work with a little extra work. Can't go wrong with XP though!

>>> I will edit this post with more details and links to the FTP files because I'm heading out in a few here. I sent these to Bluebee via PM already because she's doing a great job organizing thisand every other damned thing about our cars. My issues with all this were EXCRUTIANGLY SLOW DOWNLOADS and UNCERTAINTY WITH COMPATIBILITY. I'm offering help with both of those by hosting the files on my personal space and confirming compatibility with the above mentioned mix of hardware and software.

Alright, here's an update with the installation files which I used. The painfully slow and split downloads have been mirrored and linked below.

Required Utilities
1. WinRAR (1.4MB): http://www.win-rar.com/download.html
2. Daemon Tools Lite (10.9MB): http://www.disc-tools.com/download/daemon
3. VMWare v6.0.3-80004 (315MB): http://www.4shared.com/file/yAihspKS...-603-80004.htm (I cannot rehost this)

INPA & EDIABAS v6.4.3
Download: http://quick99si3.home.comcast.net/b...6.4.3-full.rar (270MB)
How-to: http://quick99si3.home.comcast.net/b...LISH_SETUP.pdf (1MB)
Notes: This version seems to be preferred over the optional 2010 v5.0.2 update. I advise getting set up with 6.4.3 to make sure everything works. You will need to extract the file using WinRAR and then mount the image file using Daemon Tools. Follow the steps in the PDF file referenced above but select the "BMW Group Rectification Programs USA" option instead of "UK" on page 5. On the same page, you can select to install NCS Expert and WINKFP in addition to INPA and EDIABAS (not required but useful for later).

NCS Made Easy by Revtor
Download: http://quick99si3.home.comcast.net/b..._by_REVTOR.rar (154KB)
How-to: This is a much needed helper application for NCSEXPERT. Simply extract the RAR file to something like C:\NCSDUMMY. The PFL file is a profile used later by NCSEXPERT. The included PDF is a guide on reprogramming, not installing, and it is definitely worth reviewing multiple times.

EasyDIS 1.0 based on DIS v44 and GT1
Download 1: http://quick99si3.home.comcast.net/b...se-44-v1.0.rar (240MB)
Download 2: http://quick99si2.home.comcast.net/b...4_programs.rar (758MB)
How-to 1: http://quick99si3.home.comcast.net/b...THIS_FIRST.pdf (125KB)
How-to 2: http://quick99si3.home.comcast.net/b..._interface.mht (1.7MB) (right click, save as *.mht; see bottom half for DIS guide)
How-to 3: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1297683 by Randomy (2.5MB)
How-to 4: http://quick99si3.home.comcast.net/b...tion_Check.pdf (2.1MB)
Notes: There are a few functions that will need to be peformed from within the DIS virtual machine Administration menu. These include changing the translator to and from FISTER (ADS) or SOFTING (OBD) to correspond with your interface, performing the APITEST to verify functionality, configuring the running processis, and shutting down DIS. To do this, click the Administration button in the bottom right, select "Calibrating Touch Shield," and enter 12345 as the password. VM should be set to "not run" and the others to "run." The "Installation_Check" PDF can be used to ensure that your entire configuration works, the toughest part is probably having the virtual machine properly networked to your Windows box w/ EDIABAS. Always run IFHSrv32.exe before starting DIS, in fact, it wouldn't hurt to have it autostart with Windows.

Optional:
INPA 5.0.2 update: http://quick99si3.home.comcast.net/b...02_Updated.rar (480MB)
Note: File mirror only. I haven't installed this.

Originally Posted by Quick99Si

Alright, here's an update

That's a WONDERFUL update!

I added everything you said into the first post, so that readers don't have to scroll down this far, to get started.

One question I have of the folks who have used this software in the BMW dealerships:

QUESTION: Was the GT1/DIS dealer software originally expecting a SERIAL or a USB connection?

That is, if one has the choice, what is 'simpler': Serial or USB cables?

Quick99Si, for example, used 'this' serial k-line ADS/OBD interface:

But, I prefer a USB interface (simply because I don't have a handy serial port laptop.)

I'm confused ... if one uses a USB cable (for modern laptops), do we have to do shenanigans to get the USB to 'look' like a serial port to the software?

Please advise as I'm confused why anyone would want a serial cable since all modern PCs have USB ports nowadays.

It seems to me that EDIABAS requires the connection to be set up on COM1, and the standard at the time was likely a serial rs232 connection. If we're talking about 1996 or so, I would think that USB wasn't yet as common as it is today, and serial was the standard along with the parallel port. I'm under the impression that port settings are important to proper connectivity, and running the OBD setup exe file seems to set that just fine toward the end of the INPA installation process. USB to serial adapter cables set up a virtual com port and effectively emulate a serial connection, but not all adapters do this adequately and can therefore interfere with the connectivity and compatibility of our cables. This varies with the type of chip and drivers used, so YMMV. I didn't want to play any guessing games and just opted for an interface with a serial connection matched to a laptop with a native serial port. No drivers are required if you use a serial cable. You can also use an expansion slot with a serial port, but those can go up to $60 compared to a Dell D600 that can be had for about double that.

OBD interfaces with USB cables built in likely have the proper chip onboard and will come with the corresponding drivers. I think these would be less troublesome than getting an interface with a serial cable and then mating it to a serial-to-USB adapter, ultimately connecting to a laptop via USB. My only experience with this is from the early Hondata days where serial-to-USB adapters broke all communication on serial interfaces. I haven't tried this on the e39 (anybody have this adapter in Chicago so we can toy around?) so this too is YMMV. If you got it to work, a quick post with your setup would be very much appreciated. Adapter manufacturer, driver version, OS, anything useful.

Here's a site detailing that different USB-to-serial adapters can vary in functionality, as well as the timing issue I mentioned via PM: http://www.rttycontesting.com/usb.htm

Originally Posted by bluebee

I'm confused ... if one uses a USB cable (for modern laptops), do we have to do shenanigans to get the USB to 'look' like a serial port to the software?

Please advise as I'm confused why anyone would want a serial cable since all modern PCs have USB ports nowadays.

Not sure if you've covered this already, but maybe you're in need of a USB to serial (RS-232) converter? At work, we have had good success with this one from Startech. (I have no experience with any of the BMW diagnostic software in the thread, I just have a little experience with industrial serial communications.)

When you insert the device, you will need to install a driver for it. After that, you can define in the control panel what Comm port the converter will occupy. The shennanigans part is the fact that it may change when you plug it in to a different USB port on your laptop each time you use it. You'll have to make sure things are set correctly in the control panel and that the comm port is one that is a) accessible by the diagnostic app, and b) doesn't conflict with any of the other logical comm ports being used by the OS. Keep in mind that the USB drivers will often want to auto assign some higher comm port addresses, and that a lot of older software is only written to utilize the first 2 or 4 comm ports, which was all that was commonly available prior to large scale shifting from RS-232 serial to USB serial over the last decade.

Originally Posted by ElwoodBlues

maybe you're in need of a USB to serial (RS-232) converter? At work, we have had good success with this one from Startech

That Startech cable is mighty inexpensive ... so ... if it works ... it would be a blessing!

1. People used to tend to go with the serial K-line cables because they are cheaper, more common, and known to work ...
   • but there are fewer and fewer laptop PCs that have serial ports.
2. Nowadays, with USB-only laptops, people tend to try to get the more expensive USB (k-line + d-can) cables to work ...
   • but compatibility is always an unknown.
3. Perhaps a simple serial cable + serial-to-USB conversion is the way to go ...
   • but again, compatibility is the big unknown.

We're all waiting someone else to test it out since the cables are expensive.

Q: Does anyone have experience with this inexpensive Startech cable on the BMW diagnostic software with the INPA K-line serial cables?

Originally Posted by ElwoodBlues

a lot of older software is only written to utilize the first 2 or 4 comm ports

One thing I noticed is that INPA creates the old DOS 8+3 directory structure, e.g.,

• C:\EDIABAS
• C:\INPA
• C:\NCSEXPER <== note the missing "T" to keep it to 8 characters
• C:\NFS
• X:\Referenz\INSTALL\Instprog.exe <== note the 8+3 character naming convention
• etc.

Which implies it's old software.

With all this discussion on the USB vs Serial question, I figured it would be better to go the serial route. It supports more things, and there are fewer things to worry about. I took the plunge and spent an extra $125 for a Dell D600 to run all this with a serial port (plus I dont have to worry about all the config changes to my personal laptop). And I bought a cheapie serial adapter from china. The pic of Quick99Si's adapter is much more expensive and has that box of electronics in the serial/ODB2 adapter. Mine was only $20 and doesnt seem to have the box of electronics. What is the difference?

That one *should* work just fine. The one I bought is supposed to offer additional compatibility with OBD-I cars and possibly non-BMW's. I expect that your cable will work with your X5 and I'd ask that you post back with your results

Revtor's NCS Dummy is best accessible via a direct link to his website. He has it linked in the main NCS Dummy thread: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1553779

I suggest taking my mirror down as the file will be outdated soon.

Originally Posted by Quick99Si

I suggest taking my mirror down as the file will be outdated soon.

I like the (almost) one-stop shopping of your site!

To the team:
I wish to commend Quick99Si, who has been in almost daily PM communication with me, as he downloads, assembles, tests, compresses, and re-publishes the links to the various software archives. He is helping all of us by doing so.

I also wish to commend RDL and aca84 who have, in numerous PMs, been explaining the various software intricacies of the software programs ... which allows us to distill the immense amount of divergent information into the top post of this thread as a (somewhat) cohesive set of ordered statements.

If you think it's still confusing after you read the top post of this thread, let us know so we can make it even easier for the next to follow.

Changes.iso
OPPS interface seems to correspond to D-CAN cars (2006-on or so) using OBD connector --> changes.iso as included
EDIC interface seems to correspond to K-LINE cars and cables (up to 2006 or so), using ADS connector up to MY2000 or OBD thereafter --> changes_v2.iso
Note: Using a K-LINE serial interface, I was able to read my 2000 e39 via ADS underhood connector with Progman set to OPPS interface (meaning that I used the included changes.iso along with installation instruction, and it worked out of the box, YMMV)

NOT RECOMMENDED: If changes.iso in the Progman installation files doesn't work for you, you can try changes_v2.iso. There are a total 5 "changes" files, which you can hunt around or download them all directly at:

http://quick99si2.home.comcast.net/bmw/changes_all.rar (628kb)

RECOMMENDED: To make it easier, the author of the Progman installation images also created a simple utility to easily select between interfaces instead of trying individual changes files. Dracon has a thread for this at: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1616773

He hosted it as a ZIPX file which requires the newest version of WinZip to decompress. I downloaded and recompressed the file as RAR, which can be downloaded directly from:

http://quick99si2.home.comcast.net/bmw/InterfaceConfig.rar (100kb)

If using InterfaceConfig, you don't need to bother with any changes.iso nonsense. When you get to the changes.iso part in the installation instructions, simply execute InterfaceConfig.cmd from within the Progman virtual machine, select your chassis code, and you're done. Big thanks for dracon for this!

these Ediabas/INPA K-LINE interfaces work with E39
I have couple of these cables if someone need PM me

Quick99Si clued me in on a nice feature of NCS for Dummys.

NOTE: This five-minute test only requires a Windows PC & NCSExpert to have been installed (you need no cable & no BMW for this test).

1. Download, extract, & run the latest NcsDummy.exe Windows executable
   • http://revtor.be/ncsdummy/ncsdummy.zip
   • You can place the resultant executable anywhere on your PC
   • It will ask you where you prior installed the NCSExpert data files (e.g., C:\NCSEXPER\DATEN\, by default)
2. Point the NCSDummy GUI to any desired module (e.g., point to the specific E39 general module: GM3.C04)
   • Notice that "Translations" is checked, by default
   • Manually put a check in the "Order Options" checkbox
   • Right click on the "Module Functions" button
   • Left click to select "Export Sorted by Keyword"
   • Save E39-GM3.C04-ModuleFunctions.txt
3. View E39-GM3.C04-ModuleFunctions.txt
   • This lists all available options for that GM3_c05 general module
   • Also provided are English translations
   • And, most importantly, the available "settings".
   • • For example, look for VERRIEGELUNGSSCHWELLE, and you'll see the speed settings you can change.

My question:
Q: How do we know which module is in our E39?

For example, the Revtor list provides these general modules to choose from:

• GM3.C04
• GM3.C05
• GM3.C10