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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 / F36 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

View Poll Results: Does the 4-cylinder turbo make it more or less likely you will buy a 328i?
The 4-cylinder makes it more likely I will buy a 328i 59 39.33%
The 4-cylinder makes it less likely I will buy a 328i 62 41.33%
I'm not sure 29 19.33%
Voters: 150. You may not vote on this poll

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  #76  
Old 09-05-2011, 11:55 PM
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mr_clueless mr_clueless is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynNY1015 View Post
call me ignorant, dumb whatever you'd like but I feel the fuel efficiency age sort of ruined the auto industry in terms of getting bigger better faster. I mean yeah they say these cars are fuel efficient and faster but its not the same. When i get older, i can no longer look forward to (for now) the ROAR of an M5 v10, or the scream of v8 m3.
What's the point in roaring and getting passed by a silent Telsa?
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  #77  
Old 09-06-2011, 03:06 PM
BrooklynNY1015 BrooklynNY1015 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_clueless View Post
What's the point in roaring and getting passed by a silent Telsa?
getting passed? No, for the M3 why not improve on the v8 and make it even faster, no its being shrunken down to a v6 which NO bmw enthusiasts like and they are putting a tri turbo on it, so much for NA.
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  #78  
Old 09-07-2011, 12:03 AM
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I wish BMW kept the NA inline-6 for the ~250HP-class and used the N20 for the ~200HP-class instead.

e.g.
335 - ~300HP, turbo 6
330 - ~250HP, NA 6
325 - ~200HP, turbo 4

This way a bigger group of people could continue to enjoy the legendary inline-6.
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  #79  
Old 09-09-2011, 08:29 AM
RobertaZ RobertaZ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilH View Post
Don't expect a price drop for the new 4-cylinder 3 Series either, based on prices just announced for the N20 powered 2012 528i and Z4:

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/08/17/b...and-z4-models/
Since the consensus is that the turbo 4 cyl. will get about 20% better gas mileage, I decided to figure out what that works out to in real-life savings. Assuming a 6 cyl. gets 20MPG and a turbo 4 cyl. gets 25MPG:

5 years X 12,500 miles/yr. x $4.50/gal x 20MPG = $14,062.50
5 years X 12,500 miles/yr. x $4.50/gal x 25MPG = $11,250.00

Difference = $2,812.50

It seems kind of crazy for BMW to raise the price by $2,500 when the gas savings over a 5 year period would work out to around $2,800. For that differential, give me a regular aspirated 6 and I'll be happy. Secondly, those engines have a proven track record. The 4 cylinders? Not so much.....
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  #80  
Old 09-09-2011, 09:03 AM
Robert A Robert A is offline
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That 20% will be illusory. The current 528i has an EPA city rating of 22. No way the 4 cyl is going to rate at 26 mpg in the city.
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  #81  
Old 09-09-2011, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert A View Post
That 20% will be illusory. The current 528i has an EPA city rating of 22. No way the 4 cyl is going to rate at 26 mpg in the city.
Whatever the real difference is, spending an additional $2,500 on the 4 clinder turbo is not going to save much money. If the difference was 10 MPG, then it would be worthwhile.
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  #82  
Old 09-09-2011, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertaZ View Post
Since the consensus is that the turbo 4 cyl. will get about 20% better gas mileage, I decided to figure out what that works out to in real-life savings. Assuming a 6 cyl. gets 20MPG and a turbo 4 cyl. gets 25MPG:

5 years X 12,500 miles/yr. x $4.50/gal x 20MPG = $14,062.50
5 years X 12,500 miles/yr. x $4.50/gal x 25MPG = $11,250.00

Difference = $2,812.50

It seems kind of crazy for BMW to raise the price by $2,500 when the gas savings over a 5 year period would work out to around $2,800. For that differential, give me a regular aspirated 6 and I'll be happy. Secondly, those engines have a proven track record. The 4 cylinders? Not so much.....
20% improvement over 20MPG would be 24MPG.

I don't think you can attribute all the $2,500 to the N20. As I recall from the order sheets JonS posted, the 2012 528i now has free floor mats included and I also recall it now comes with Xenon lights if you order ZPP. Those two things alone are about $1,000 extra on a 2011.

Assuming the NVH issues with the N20 don't make it a turd, it has a much better torque curve than the outgoing NA 6 cylinder and should have better drivability as a result.
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  #83  
Old 09-11-2011, 03:01 PM
Robert A Robert A is offline
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Drove the C250 yesterday. This is 1.8 liter Merc counterpart to what BMW is doing. It's a nice engine, but no way does it have the smoothness and refinement of a 6 cylinder. You really know it's 4 cyl at low rpms.

Given that the EPA city rating is 21 and the car is just as expensive as before, I'm not certain there's any real value added here.
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  #84  
Old 09-11-2011, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert A View Post
Drove the C250 yesterday. This is 1.8 liter Merc counterpart to what BMW is doing. It's a nice engine, but no way does it have the smoothness and refinement of a 6 cylinder. You really know it's 4 cyl at low rpms.

Given that the EPA city rating is 21 and the car is just as expensive as before, I'm not certain there's any real value added here.
I guess this is the wrong thread, but what the heck. What did you think of the handling with the C250? Has it improved since the previous car (C300) or it is similar?

There may be a difference with respect to low RPM performance in the BMW. Because of the twin-scroll turbo and the higher horsepower/torque than the C250's engine, BMW's 4 may not be as bad.
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  #85  
Old 09-11-2011, 03:45 PM
Robert A Robert A is offline
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Can't really address the handling. I simply didn't have enough time, although I liked the firmness of the setup.

My main reason for driving it was to get a taste of the new engine technology. It was a coupe, btw.
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  #86  
Old 09-11-2011, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90Alan View Post
20% improvement over 20MPG would be 24MPG.

I don't think you can attribute all the $2,500 to the N20. As I recall from the order sheets JonS posted, the 2012 528i now has free floor mats included and I also recall it now comes with Xenon lights if you order ZPP. Those two things alone are about $1,000 extra on a 2011.
Ooops. 24MPG is correct, thereby making my argument even better.

Xenon lights and floor mats (whoopee!) may cost $1,000 through BMW, but they're less than 1/2 of that from 3rd parties.
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  #87  
Old 09-11-2011, 11:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynNY1015 View Post
call me ignorant, dumb whatever you'd like but I feel the fuel efficiency age sort of ruined the auto industry in terms of getting bigger better faster. I mean yeah they say these cars are fuel efficient and faster but its not the same. When i get older, i can no longer look forward to (for now) the ROAR of an M5 v10, or the scream of v8 m3.
Or the sounds of birds chirping, water trickling, fish splashing.... soon enough we will be all underground in air filtered dwellings and cities. The only thing allowed to drive will be electric.

The quest for HP has ruined the auto industry, they had to be regulated to produce more efficient engines. Creating gas guzzlers is cheap, with cheep thrills. Its easy to through more gas at an engine. Creating efficient engines with thrills costs more money. So it had to be forced. Manufacturers take the easier, more profitable route. Passing on the real costs to consumers and governments.

I welcome the new challenge and hope BMW will prosper with the most efficient thrills.
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  #88  
Old 09-13-2011, 08:29 AM
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Looks like the official figure for fuel consumption is out -- 22/32 on the 528i.
http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...fications.aspx
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  #89  
Old 09-13-2011, 09:05 AM
Robert A Robert A is offline
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So where's the bump in fuel efficiency relative to the 2011 model?
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  #90  
Old 09-13-2011, 11:31 AM
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So where's the bump in fuel efficiency relative to the 2011 model?
Maybe they just forgot to update the old numbers.
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  #91  
Old 09-15-2011, 07:23 PM
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The current 528 in the US gets 22/32 with auto - not too shabby. The 5 Series in the UK with the 245 hp 4 banger and auto transmission is rated at 32.8 Imperial MPG (city) and 43.5 Imperial MPG (highway) . This translates to 27 City 36 Highway in US gallons - sweet! I believe they are using the newer transmissions. Perhaps the EPA will knock these down a tad - so maybe 24 City 34 Highway?

I checked the weight - 3736 lbs for the 2011 528 in the UK and 3814 lbs (with auto for both) for the 2011 528 in the US. So they aren't shaving much weight - the engines and transmissions must be much more efficient.

I am VERY excited about returning to BMW and driving a RWD 4 cylinder turbo in a 1, 3 or even 5. Always thought they were lighter and more fun than sixes.

Unfortunately, I have a Saab now and I don't think they will stay in business for another 12 months - I may have to get an "interim" car...don't you just hate that?

Last edited by zigster; 09-15-2011 at 08:04 PM.
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  #92  
Old 09-15-2011, 10:47 PM
Robert A Robert A is offline
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Hope you're correct about the fuel economy estimates. For the moment, at least, the BMW USA website is holding at 22 mpg for the city, which is no different than before.
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  #93  
Old 09-18-2011, 10:31 AM
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I think the N20 with the base 328i (and eventually X3) is going to rock. The turbos will give it nice torque, that you can actually use around town. And the increased fuel economy is always welcome.

If the X3 was available for MY2012 with the I4, we'd probably get one for my wife. X1 is a better bet, but it doesn't seemed guaranteed to come to the US. If we do end up going with the X3, I am absolutely waiting for the turbo-4 for MY2013. Makes much more sense to me than a relatively old I6.
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  #94  
Old 09-20-2011, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Robert A View Post
Hope you're correct about the fuel economy estimates. For the moment, at least, the BMW USA website is holding at 22 mpg for the city, which is no different than before.
Yeah and this is really for the 2012 version
http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...fications.aspx
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  #95  
Old 09-20-2011, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
Yeah and this is really for the 2012 version
http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...fications.aspx
And again you're ignoring that the engine is more powerful, torquier than the outgoing I6, while getting equivalent MPG
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  #96  
Old 09-20-2011, 07:30 PM
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The reason d'Ítre of the N20 is to get more mpg for CAFE. Fail in the case of 528i. Better mpg / more HP could have been done with a NA 6-cyl. direct injected (the 2011 528i is not). Mercedes C350 V6 306HP gets only 1mpg city worse than the C250 1.8T 204HP.

The N20 will be quicker in 0-60mph, but will be about the same in 5-60mph
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  #97  
Old 09-20-2011, 07:38 PM
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And again you're ignoring that the engine is more powerful, torquier than the outgoing I6, while getting equivalent MPG
Same hp as before, no apparent bump in efficiency, marginal improvement in torque, no apparent long run cost benefit. I'm not seeing the value proposition.
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  #98  
Old 09-20-2011, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Robert A View Post
Same hp as before, no apparent bump in efficiency, marginal improvement in torque, no apparent long run cost benefit. I'm not seeing the value proposition.
It will be a slight improvement in HP for where the 3 was (and a small drop from where the Z4) was. But yeah, the MPG thing (at least with what is currently posted) has me scratching my head.
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  #99  
Old 09-21-2011, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Robert A View Post
Same hp as before, no apparent bump in efficiency, marginal improvement in torque, no apparent long run cost benefit. I'm not seeing the value proposition.
Quote:
The maximum output of 240 horsepower is achieved at 5,000 rpm, 1,500 rpm lower than in the normally-aspirated 3.0-liter inline six. The peak torque of 260 lb-ft, comes on stream at just 1,250 rpm. Not only is that 30% more torque than the aforementioned inline-6, it also peaks 1,500 rpm earlier. The vigorous power comes on early and climbs steadily all the way to redline.
Quote from here. I obviously have not driven the car, so cannot comment on NVH issues... but these torque numbers at low RPM will likely make a big difference in drivability. A 30% torque increase AND at much lower RPM will make a big difference.

In normal driving around town or on a freeway ramp when you want to accelerate from say 35MPH to 65MPH at a moderate rate, 260 lb-ft of torque at 1,250 RPM should make that happen with much less shifting and engine revving than before leading to a more pleasant driving experience.

If this engine is not a buzzy and noisy POS, it should make for a much nicer driving car.
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  #100  
Old 09-21-2011, 11:51 AM
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I'm more worried about the changes BMW plans to make with the steering. They'll be going for electric, to save gas, like that in the F10. So with numb steering and a 4-banger, it would make more sense to get a Buick Regal.
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