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BMW Diesel Owners / Enthusiasts
Do you own a diesel powered BMW? Maybe a 335d or a BMW x35d? Come and talk about what makes your car great!

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  #1  
Old 08-16-2011, 08:24 PM
GangweDM GangweDM is offline
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Diesel fuel additives

I have a 2009 335d with 103,250 miles. I am curious about any fuel treatments. I have not used any so far. I have a little flutter in the idle. Any suggestions

Den
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  #2  
Old 08-16-2011, 08:50 PM
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Congrats on the high millage 335d. Have you had any major issues with it? I'd be happy to get 100k miles out of mine.
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  #3  
Old 08-17-2011, 02:55 AM
SixShotEspress0 SixShotEspress0 is offline
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I'd be surprised to see and major issues outta the 335d, if my 524td is any indication we should all make 100k at least.

My 524td leaked diesel, oil, and had worn/torn seats but lasted long enough for the odometer to stop running/break @196k poor girl. I still have her looking for some kid with mechanical skills to breathe life into her. If I find the right kid I'll give her to him for a buck.

Last edited by SixShotEspress0; 08-17-2011 at 02:56 AM.
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  #4  
Old 08-17-2011, 06:09 AM
cssnms cssnms is offline
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You may find this thread and the link in the first post (diesel fuel additive test) helpful.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=549114
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  #5  
Old 08-17-2011, 06:18 AM
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bimmerdiesel bimmerdiesel is offline
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wow. How is d treating you so far? Did you get it brand new? I am sure diesel engine would be fine.
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  #6  
Old 08-17-2011, 07:34 AM
montr montr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GangweDM View Post
I have a 2009 335d with 103,250 miles. I am curious about any fuel treatments. I have not used any so far. I have a little flutter in the idle. Any suggestions

Den
I have seen in my local NAPA store products from Lubro Moly (imported from Germany) that claim to clean the diesel fuel system. They have compatible products for vehicle with with emission system (low sulphur). I have not used these products but you can find info on other diesel forums (MB, VW). To find the products, got to napaonline and search:
LM2061 (for the pro line)
LM2002 (for consumer)

You can find additional info at:
http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/p...oiladb=web.nsf
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  #7  
Old 08-17-2011, 08:43 PM
TopDog5450 TopDog5450 is offline
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Fuel Treatments?

You don't need fuel treatments.

If you have access to B5 biodiesel fuel, use it. It will clean your engine as well as any expensive fuel treatment/additive.
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  #8  
Old 08-17-2011, 09:05 PM
d geek d geek is online now
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Originally Posted by TopDog5450 View Post
You don't need fuel treatments.

If you have access to B5 biodiesel fuel, use it. It will clean your engine as well as any expensive fuel treatment/additive.
Biodiesel won't "clean your engine", but it will give you plenty of lubricity to protect your HPFP internals- as will several other proven fuel additives. I think additives (that have data to back up their claims) are a good investment in the longevity of your vehicle.
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  #9  
Old 08-18-2011, 02:38 PM
pogopop77 pogopop77 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GangweDM View Post
I have a 2009 335d with 103,250 miles. I am curious about any fuel treatments. I have not used any so far. I have a little flutter in the idle. Any suggestions

Den
I've used Amsoil Cetane Booster and occasionally PowerService, with good results. The only issues I've had are with the exhaust treatment system.

I figured that would end up being the problem area as it was new for the US. BMW has a lot of experience with diesel vehicles in Europe.
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  #10  
Old 08-18-2011, 02:55 PM
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floydarogers floydarogers is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pogopop77 View Post
I've used Amsoil Cetane Booster and occasionally PowerService, with good results. The only issues I've had are with the exhaust treatment system.

I figured that would end up being the problem area as it was new for the US. BMW has a lot of experience with diesel vehicles in Europe.
I really have to take issue with that last statement. BMW does have extensive diesel experience. HOWEVER, the US BMW diesels are the first that have been equipped with the SCR system (which uses the DEF). EU requirements wrt NOx similar to US 2006 requirements don't take effect for another couple years over there.

They have had particulate filters and many have single-element catalysts, but not the three-way SCR for NOx, HC and CO. I'd be careful using any additives; it's possible that they might contaminate the catalyst elements.
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  #11  
Old 08-18-2011, 03:17 PM
cssnms cssnms is offline
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I think that's what he said.
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  #12  
Old 08-18-2011, 03:40 PM
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BMW strictly does not want any fuel additives used
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  #13  
Old 08-20-2011, 03:14 PM
GangweDM GangweDM is offline
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This car runs like a champ. No problems at all, I did purchase it new. The biggest problem have been three burned out tail lights.
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  #14  
Old 08-22-2011, 07:50 AM
Snipe656 Snipe656 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SixShotEspress0 View Post
I'd be surprised to see and major issues outta the 335d, if my 524td is any indication we should all make 100k at least.
I have a hard time believing any modern car would see any major problems before 100k miles. My experience has been that the major issues tend to start showing up on cars more in the 125-150k range but even have had some exceptions to that. Usuaully what happens for me is automatic transmissions need rebuilding by 150k miles. But my truck(187k) and current Mercedes(205k but does need a tranny now) were both exceptions to that rule.

To the OP with the flutter in your idle, out of curiosity when was the last time the fuel filter was replaced?
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  #15  
Old 09-13-2011, 11:16 AM
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Axel61 Axel61 is offline
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I also use the AMSOIL Cetane Booster and Diesel Additive, no problemo as of yet, the Booster must have it helps pump up the power
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  #16  
Old 09-13-2011, 03:54 PM
tonka858 tonka858 is offline
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Originally Posted by Axel61 View Post
I also use the AMSOIL Cetane Booster and Diesel Additive, no problemo as of yet, the Booster must have it helps pump up the power
they do make nice products have used them in my sprinter since 06
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  #17  
Old 09-20-2011, 10:31 AM
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Axel61 Axel61 is offline
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@TONKA i HAVE USED amsoil FOR OVER 20 YEARS AND PLAN TO USE THEIR PRODUCTS AFTER WARRANTY EXPIRES9oops sorry for high caps)
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  #18  
Old 09-27-2011, 11:56 AM
diesaroo diesaroo is offline
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Personally, I'm a fan of TDR-S (summer) and TDR-WDA (winter) from Amalgamated Inc. in Fort Wayne, IN. They deal with large industry so they have an extremely low mark-up on their products as compared with retail products.

IIRC, it costs about $100 for a 5-gallon jug. Dosage rate (for max cetane boost) is 8oz per 25 gallons of fuel. 6+ cetane points, lubricity, etc. Fully compatible with DPF and ULSD.

http://www.amalgamatedinc.com/tdr-s.aspx
http://www.amalgamatedinc.com/tdr-wda.aspx
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  #19  
Old 02-17-2013, 07:11 AM
gulfcoastbeemer gulfcoastbeemer is offline
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Diesel fuel quality here in the U.S., which only meets a minimum cetane rating of 40 and has marginal lubricity, is a far cry from the premium, 50+ cetane, diesel found in most of Europe. These short comings seem to support the argument for additives.

Then again, BMW's prohibition on diesel fuel additives is understandable for several reasons: 1. To endorse the use of a fuel additives would require BMW to test them and selectively endorse those it found useful -- or at least not harmful. It's just easier and safer for BMW to say they are all verboten 2. In the U.S. modern Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel (ULSD) is a formulation that should already include an additive package -- in part to add lubricity removed with the sulfur. 3. Modern clean diesel engines utilize a particulate filter and / or SCR exhaust treatment systems that could be harmed by the "wrong" additive. 4. It's questionable marketing to admit your product needs an additive to function properly.

My conclusion: A diesel additive designed to be compatible with modern engine emission abatement schemes, properly dosed to ULSD could only help with the cleanliness, performance and durability of a modern diesel engine -- but it's unlikely you will ever hear BMW say as much.
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  #20  
Old 02-17-2013, 11:10 AM
Snipe656 Snipe656 is offline
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Min cetane rating here is much higher than 40. It all depends on what part of the country you live in.
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  #21  
Old 02-17-2013, 03:22 PM
gulfcoastbeemer gulfcoastbeemer is offline
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Originally Posted by Snipe656 View Post
Min cetane rating here is much higher than 40. It all depends on what part of the country you live in.
In an effort to decrease NOx Emissions, Texas was one of a very few states that created their own program to regulate diesel fuel (beyond the 1989 US EPA cetane 40 standard).

US EPA now calls such programs SIPs or State Improvement Programs.

While you can encounter fuels with higher cetane values in some states / locales or from certain distributors / dealers, the US Federal Minimum Cetane Number is still 40.

There has been some effort by the FEDs to develop a minimum standard for what constitutes "PREMIUM DIESEL" -- but, I don't believe it exists as yet.

The US EPA published EPA420-R-03-002 that talks to the benefits of implementing a higher cetane standard. While we fund studies, other countries have taken positive steps.

"In Europe the current standard for diesel sold in European Union, Iceland, Norway and Switzerland is set in EN 590, with a minimum cetane index of 46 and a minimum cetane number of 51. Premium diesel fuel can have a cetane number as high as 60."

If we fed our little oil-burners Euro-diesel they would be even better performers.
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  #22  
Old 02-17-2013, 03:37 PM
d geek d geek is online now
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Although the min cetane is 40 in the US, fuel sampling surveys have shown it closer to 45 across the country, FWIW.
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  #23  
Old 02-17-2013, 04:49 PM
gulfcoastbeemer gulfcoastbeemer is offline
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US diesel 40-45 cetane, Euro-diesel 50-60 cetane, GTL-diesel 70+ cetane.

Gas-To-Liquid technology -- where diesel (and other products) are made from natural gas, results in diesel so pure that it is said to be odorless and possess a cetane rating of >70.

GTL-Diesel is currently being produced in Qatar and will come online at several other plants, including one in Louisiana in the near future. Even if it is not used in it's pure form, it's a natural for blending with conventionally produced diesel to enhance its properties.

There is a recent Bloomberg article, "Shale Glut Becomes $2 Diesel Using Gas-to-Liquids Plants" that talks about how GTL-Diesel could change things.
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  #24  
Old 02-18-2013, 08:01 AM
Pierre Louis Pierre Louis is offline
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Originally Posted by gulfcoastbeemer View Post
Diesel fuel quality here in the U.S., which only meets a minimum cetane rating of 40 and has marginal lubricity, is a far cry from the premium, 50+ cetane, diesel found in most of Europe. These short comings seem to support the argument for additives.

Then again, BMW's prohibition on diesel fuel additives is understandable for several reasons: 1. To endorse the use of a fuel additives would require BMW to test them and selectively endorse those it found useful -- or at least not harmful. It's just easier and safer for BMW to say they are all verboten 2. In the U.S. modern Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel (ULSD) is a formulation that should already include an additive package -- in part to add lubricity removed with the sulfur. 3. Modern clean diesel engines utilize a particulate filter and / or SCR exhaust treatment systems that could be harmed by the "wrong" additive. 4. It's questionable marketing to admit your product needs an additive to function properly.

My conclusion: A diesel additive designed to be compatible with modern engine emission abatement schemes, properly dosed to ULSD could only help with the cleanliness, performance and durability of a modern diesel engine -- but it's unlikely you will ever hear BMW say as much.
There are plenty of examples that do not fit this theory and logic. Most manufacturers have a history of approved products, additives, and testing. BMW engineers modify the fuel system for specific markets. This topic has been rehashed on many different forums and has additive believers and non-believers.

One needs real field data to prove or disprove theoretical conclusions. As engineering teaches, all decisions are a compromise. Marketing by fuel additive manufacturers has never included such data for a reason: there isn't any that supports preventive use.

There are no mass market failures of diesel components related to fuel quality standards, in spite of recent isolated models such as the investigation of VW/Bosch HPFP failures of 2009-2010 Jetta/Golf (designs like Passat with urea injection don't seem to be affected) which has more proof of fuel contamination or a defective fuel pump design, and no indication on how additives would help.

PL
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  #25  
Old 02-18-2013, 09:45 AM
gulfcoastbeemer gulfcoastbeemer is offline
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Originally Posted by Pierre Louis View Post
One needs real field data to prove or disprove theoretical conclusions.
I'm not a genius with additives, like Clark Griswold or yourself, but empirical data of my own, collected in the form of 10-years of fuel receipts for five different diesel engine vehicles, suggests fuel economy does vary with fuel source / "quality". Everyone of my diesel vehicles has regularly exceeded the EPA mileage estimates published for them. Darn if I know why.

I'm going to attribute it to the power of positive thinking -- we know it can't be a fuel additive.
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