Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)

F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-01-2014, 09:19 AM
MoldCAD's Avatar
MoldCAD MoldCAD is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Poland
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,010
Send a message via Skype™ to MoldCAD
Mein Auto: 528i xDrive
Which is more of a driver's car: M235i or 435i?

Now, I know it's a little provocative question, especially when asked by somebody who cruises in an F10 and has fun in a Golf R. But I'm asking seriously, as I will soon be replacing my 528xi with a smaller yet more powerful BMW - and would love to know your opinion which one to pick...

So: which is more of a driver's car: the M235i or the 435i?
__________________
previous: 2003 E46 330i SMG
current: 2013 F10 528i xDrive
on order: Golf R mk7 DSG

Reply With Quote
Advertisement
  #2  
Old 09-11-2014, 06:57 PM
TDEM TDEM is offline
Registered User
Location: Los Angeles
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 4
Mein Auto: 12 550i MSport
Interesting question. I was at the dealer today and I sat in a m435i and it was pretty big, substantial... I liked it a lot but didn't drive it but I have driven my brothers 535i a lot and a service loaner 335i so I basically get the engine and think its great and likely even better with a lower center of gravity and a few pounds/kilos less. Right now I have a service loaner 128i and it's kinda fun, especially coming from my 550i, it's great to be able to use all of the car and wind it up and zip into turns and not be in such a big car. But either car is Probably not unlike the Golf you play in. Which brings me to my point, it may be redundant to the Golf or, if you would, "Golf adjacent."

As for the M235i I found this video to be a fun informative watch:


Last edited by TDEM; 09-11-2014 at 07:01 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-12-2014, 03:20 AM
raleedy's Avatar
raleedy raleedy is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Oregon
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,129
Mein Auto: 2013 F10 528i
The two, for sure.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-12-2014, 04:04 AM
gspannu gspannu is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: UK
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 361
Mein Auto: 5 Series F10 2012 Model
Coming from a F10... I think the 435 will be more suite d'long term'.

Both cars have good power, are very nippy, and low centre of gravity. Yes, the235 will allow you to zip through corners and 'throw' it more - but how long will you carry on doing it?

The 4 is a nice compromise (wrong word !) as it has quite the agility of the 2 series but also the comfort of the 5 series (especially with Adaptive Suspension).

I have a UK/Euro 535 and 330; and I recently had both (235, 435) cars for a day each.

The 2 is tremendous 'fun' and I loved every bit of it; but the 4 is the car I would buy.
__________________
-
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-12-2014, 05:29 AM
raleedy's Avatar
raleedy raleedy is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Oregon
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,129
Mein Auto: 2013 F10 528i
The 4 is absolutely a compromise, if the OP really wants more of a "driver's car".

Last edited by raleedy; 09-12-2014 at 05:31 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-12-2014, 08:09 AM
JoeRock550 JoeRock550 is offline
Registered User
Location: GTA
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 78
Mein Auto: F10 550xi
I would say neither is a driver's car, they are both a compromise. I had a 135i with a manual and while quick, it's not designed to corner or brake in a "driver's car" performance type of way. Feedback is muted too. Also, you will get understeer during hard cornering with the M235i and even more with the extra weight of the 435. What about a pre-owned M3 or M1? Otherwise, get the 235i and start by putting some money into upgrading the suspension. A great driver's car at a good value IMHO would be a used E46 M3.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-12-2014, 08:48 AM
Steve J Steve J is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 239
Mein Auto:
The M235i looks insubstantial next to a 4 series. The design of the 2 series has "budget" written all over it. Why not pony up and get the M4? It would be a drive of a lifetime and well worth the cost. Not only that....the design elicits a visceral response. You'd be looking for any excuse to drive the car.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-12-2014, 10:18 AM
Mark K's Avatar
Mark K Mark K is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Cincinnati, OH
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,026
Mein Auto: 2011 E92 335i MT
Guys, he already has a perfect (and better than either of the cars listed) driver's car - Golf R.

So, that considered, and considering the fact it will be replacing 5 series, maybe 435i would be a better fit. However, budget or not, M-Performance add-ons will make M235i way more exciting to drive. It will have different engine management with BMW tune and sport exhaust. That's a lot towards making it nicer weekend cruiser. When driving is requested, Golf R is it.

One more thing, OP said it here many, many times ... he doesn't like 4 cylinder in a BMW. 6 cylinders is a pricey proposition in Europe where OP is from. So, I don't think "just swing it for M4" is really gonna work for him
__________________

_____________________________________________

2011 E92 335i 6MT ZSP ZCW (ED May 17th 2010)

2013 118d BMWNA Special Edition. Black on black cloth (yay!), 5 door hatchback, 140hp diesel. Special edition items: factory debadge| "VW", "Golf" and "TDI" badges factory applied | MT | Standard go flat tires | Spare tire (yay!) | No moonroof (yay!) .
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-12-2014, 10:25 AM
FastMarkA FastMarkA is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Chicago
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,497
Mein Auto: 2011 535xi
M235 has to be much more fun to drive.

Closer to go-kart size.
__________________

2008 535xi 6-sp - Blk Sph, Blk Dkta,---2011 535xi - Jet Blk, Blk Dkta, Alum----2014 535xi - Jet Blk, Blk Dkta, Alum Hex
Bamboo | Prem | Cold | Sprt Pkg | Nav -Prem | Prem 2 | Cold | Sport | SAT ---- Cold | DA & DA+ | LED | M-Sprt | SAT | Multi
iPod/USB | Sat | Fld Dwn Seats --- ----Fld Dwn Seats | Side/Top Cameras -- ---HK Audio
Htd Rear Seats | PDC | 18" | Logic7 -- ---
(Good riddance!)
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-12-2014, 10:34 AM
MasterYoda's Avatar
MasterYoda MasterYoda is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Long Island, New York
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 519
Mein Auto: '11 E92 335is
M2


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
__________________

'11 E92 335is DCT ProTuned by PTF Black Sapphire Metallic (Mine)
'14 F30 335xDrive Mineral Grey (Wifey)
'11 E92 335xDrive Space Grey (Retired)
'08 E90 328xi Alpine White (Retired)
'04 E46 325xi Silver Grey (Retired)
'03 E46 330xi Titanium Silver (Retired)
'98 Audi A4 2.8 Black (Retired)
'89 Saab 900 Turbo Grey (Retired) 350,000 miles

ED - Aug/Sept 2013 - '14 F30 335xDrive w/DHP Mineral Grey
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-12-2014, 11:07 AM
Steve J Steve J is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 239
Mein Auto:
MasterYoda the M2 is not yet out. BMW are still developing it. The M235i is a watered down version. The problem with genuine meat ie M3, M4, M5 etc is that they are too expensive for the majority of true car enthusiasts. Henceforth, the enthusiast has to opt for processed meat ie lesser models simply because of financial constraints. I feel the car industry should revise its prices in toto, so that more enthusiasts can enjoy the special moments with high performance cars.

I'm not privvy to the OP's financial situation but if he is buoyant the M4 is the way to go. He's obviously not a grandfather yet so he should enjoy the best while he's relatively young. The M4 beckons....
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-12-2014, 01:40 PM
MasterYoda's Avatar
MasterYoda MasterYoda is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Long Island, New York
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 519
Mein Auto: '11 E92 335is
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve J View Post
MasterYoda the M2 is not yet out. BMW are still developing it. The M235i is a watered down version. The problem with genuine meat ie M3, M4, M5 etc is that they are too expensive for the majority of true car enthusiasts. Henceforth, the enthusiast has to opt for processed meat ie lesser models simply because of financial constraints. I feel the car industry should revise its prices in toto, so that more enthusiasts can enjoy the special moments with high performance cars.

I'm not privvy to the OP's financial situation but if he is buoyant the M4 is the way to go. He's obviously not a grandfather yet so he should enjoy the best while he's relatively young. The M4 beckons....

Hey Steve I know the M2 isn't out yet. I guess I was telling the OP in not so many words to wait for it. (I am). It's coming next year. My issue with the cars you mention is that they are too large IMO especially the M5. BMWs are just getting to bloated plain and simple.

Definitely agree about the prices of cars nowadays. It's out control but I love my cars so I pay to play.


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
__________________

'11 E92 335is DCT ProTuned by PTF Black Sapphire Metallic (Mine)
'14 F30 335xDrive Mineral Grey (Wifey)
'11 E92 335xDrive Space Grey (Retired)
'08 E90 328xi Alpine White (Retired)
'04 E46 325xi Silver Grey (Retired)
'03 E46 330xi Titanium Silver (Retired)
'98 Audi A4 2.8 Black (Retired)
'89 Saab 900 Turbo Grey (Retired) 350,000 miles

ED - Aug/Sept 2013 - '14 F30 335xDrive w/DHP Mineral Grey
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-12-2014, 05:06 PM
sdg1871 sdg1871 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: New York, NY
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 902
Mein Auto: 2012 Dinan Stage 2 550xi
I've had the pleasure of beating up on the M235 for an entire day at BMWs car control clinic. It is, as many reviews that said, one of the best driving BMWs in modern history. It is a BMW that harkens back to the way BMWs used to drive: totally connected to the road.

The 435 is a nice driving car but if you're goal is pure driving pleasure and connectedness to the road it is not in the same league as the M235 which is heaven.


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
__________________
2012 Dinan Stage 2 550i xDrive M Sport, Imperial Blue Metallic, Cinnamon Brown Leather and Light Wood Trim. Major options are M Sport package, cold weather package, sport automatic transmission, active roll stabilization, premium sound, and side and top view cameras.

Dearly departed BMWs: 2009 550i M Sport in Carbon Black Metallic and 2003 540i M Sport in Titanium Silver
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-12-2014, 08:58 PM
ausdude's Avatar
ausdude ausdude is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Austin
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,091
Mein Auto: 2013 BMW 550i M-Sport
I saw a alpine white M235 at work yesterday and it was very nice looking from the outside. I'm eager to test drive one
__________________
2013 550i M Sport|300|LCSW|4MR|2TB|704|760|PDC|ZEC|6F2|ZDA|5AD |416|494|Dinan Stage 2|CF Spoiler,MirrorCaps&Splitter|M Performance Diffuser|Front Reflector Delete|Black Grilles|Rear Fog Lights|Euro Side Mirrors&Tail Lights|M5 Front & M550D Rear Sway Bars|20" HB04|Roof Wrapped|Coded|CCA member
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-12-2014, 09:46 PM
Cal Cal is online now
Early roadfly migrant
Location: USA
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 313
Mein Auto: 13 535i 11 R350 98 M3/4
While the M235i is more tossable and thus more fun, the 435i with MPK should be a better "compromise" in that it is still fun yet a better DD. The 435i is also really only 100lbs more, which is quite good given that it is a bigger car. It would be fun watching an M235i vs a 435i with MPK go at it.
__________________
13 535i M-sport
11 MB R350
04 MB E320
98 M3/4/5
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 09-13-2014, 07:40 AM
raleedy's Avatar
raleedy raleedy is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Oregon
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,129
Mein Auto: 2013 F10 528i
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdg1871 View Post
I've had the pleasure of beating up on the M235 for an entire day at BMWs car control clinic. It is, as many reviews that said, one of the best driving BMWs in modern history. It is a BMW that harkens back to the way BMWs used to drive: totally connected to the road.

The 435 is a nice driving car but if you're goal is pure driving pleasure and connectedness to the road it is not in the same league as the M235 which is heaven.


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
Wasted on the posters who would prefer a front-wheel-drive VW.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 09-13-2014, 07:45 AM
sdg1871 sdg1871 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: New York, NY
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 902
Mein Auto: 2012 Dinan Stage 2 550xi
Quote:
Originally Posted by raleedy View Post
Wasted on the posters who would prefer a front-wheel-drive VW.

A FWD BMW is blasphemy to me. RWD or rear biased AWD


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
__________________
2012 Dinan Stage 2 550i xDrive M Sport, Imperial Blue Metallic, Cinnamon Brown Leather and Light Wood Trim. Major options are M Sport package, cold weather package, sport automatic transmission, active roll stabilization, premium sound, and side and top view cameras.

Dearly departed BMWs: 2009 550i M Sport in Carbon Black Metallic and 2003 540i M Sport in Titanium Silver
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 09-13-2014, 07:58 AM
MasterYoda's Avatar
MasterYoda MasterYoda is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Long Island, New York
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 519
Mein Auto: '11 E92 335is
Quote:
Originally Posted by raleedy View Post
Wasted on the posters who would prefer a front-wheel-drive VW.
At this stage I wouldn't even consider a FWD car or a VW. Am I missing something? Family members have had plenty of VWs. Ok cars but nothing to write home about. Interiors are lets say less then desirable.

Can someone explain how a dolled up Golf can compare to a RWD 300 HP BMW?


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
__________________

'11 E92 335is DCT ProTuned by PTF Black Sapphire Metallic (Mine)
'14 F30 335xDrive Mineral Grey (Wifey)
'11 E92 335xDrive Space Grey (Retired)
'08 E90 328xi Alpine White (Retired)
'04 E46 325xi Silver Grey (Retired)
'03 E46 330xi Titanium Silver (Retired)
'98 Audi A4 2.8 Black (Retired)
'89 Saab 900 Turbo Grey (Retired) 350,000 miles

ED - Aug/Sept 2013 - '14 F30 335xDrive w/DHP Mineral Grey
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 09-13-2014, 08:13 AM
MoldCAD's Avatar
MoldCAD MoldCAD is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Poland
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,010
Send a message via Skype™ to MoldCAD
Mein Auto: 528i xDrive
Quote:
Originally Posted by raleedy View Post
Wasted on the posters who would prefer a front-wheel-drive VW.
My 300 hp Golf R is AWD with DCT, mind you I bought it on purpose - to make the M235i tempation less seductive, and the 435i with PPK and Adaptive M-Sport Suspension a more obvious choice as more agile replacement for the 4-cylinder F10. All because fun is for short spirited moments, while longer wheelbase of the 435i will hopefully be better suited to my long distance driving.

So - more or less - it's been decided (thanks to the Golf R in the stable). Thanks guys for your input; to those who suggested the M4 I only can answer "no, this one I cannot afford - sorry"

Cheers!

PS. As to the R vs. M235i: https://drive.google.com/folderview?...mc&usp=sharing
__________________
previous: 2003 E46 330i SMG
current: 2013 F10 528i xDrive
on order: Golf R mk7 DSG


Last edited by MoldCAD; 09-14-2014 at 02:44 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 09-13-2014, 03:11 PM
Mark K's Avatar
Mark K Mark K is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Cincinnati, OH
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,026
Mein Auto: 2011 E92 335i MT
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoldCAD View Post
Thanks.

Chris Harris also tested both and, in his opinion, Golf R has better chassis than F22. In the end, he voted for M235i by slightest margin because of BMW's inline 6. But otherwise, he thought Golf R was a better car.

It is amazing how many people just dismiss it "because VW". I think VW hit it out of the park with new MQB platform in the Mk VII Golf. Especially with eLSD for GTI and AWD for R.
__________________

_____________________________________________

2011 E92 335i 6MT ZSP ZCW (ED May 17th 2010)

2013 118d BMWNA Special Edition. Black on black cloth (yay!), 5 door hatchback, 140hp diesel. Special edition items: factory debadge| "VW", "Golf" and "TDI" badges factory applied | MT | Standard go flat tires | Spare tire (yay!) | No moonroof (yay!) .
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 09-13-2014, 03:37 PM
bjayfan bjayfan is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: USA
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 539
Mein Auto: 2014 M6 Coupe
M235i hands down, and get the diff so you'll never have to worry about understeer.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 09-14-2014, 01:26 AM
MoldCAD's Avatar
MoldCAD MoldCAD is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Poland
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,010
Send a message via Skype™ to MoldCAD
Mein Auto: 528i xDrive
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjayfan View Post
M235i hands down, and get the diff so you'll never have to worry about understeer.
Hmm... No matter M235i or 435i, I will sooner or later install LSD - but more to stop worrying about oversteer And to never miss xDrive in my current F10, while putting all that torque to the road!
__________________
previous: 2003 E46 330i SMG
current: 2013 F10 528i xDrive
on order: Golf R mk7 DSG


Last edited by MoldCAD; 09-14-2014 at 01:34 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 09-14-2014, 03:43 AM
bjayfan bjayfan is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: USA
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 539
Mein Auto: 2014 M6 Coupe
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoldCAD View Post
Hmm... No matter M235i or 435i, I will sooner or later install LSD - but more to stop worrying about oversteer
So if you're one of those drivers that loads up a turn and just holds on, then just get the 4 series, it will be enough for you. You asked for a drivers car, correcting understeer with the right foot is something that BMW understands very well and reaches near perfection with the diff.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 09-14-2014, 03:51 AM
MoldCAD's Avatar
MoldCAD MoldCAD is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Poland
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,010
Send a message via Skype™ to MoldCAD
Mein Auto: 528i xDrive
Now I don't quite get any of your 2 last posts. Correcting understeer with the right foot is something obvious which I used everyday when driving my old good E46 330i (heck - even with the xDrive F10, too), but then please explain what the LSD has to do with it? No flame, just asking (perhaps just a language problem )
__________________
previous: 2003 E46 330i SMG
current: 2013 F10 528i xDrive
on order: Golf R mk7 DSG


Last edited by MoldCAD; 09-14-2014 at 04:24 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 09-14-2014, 06:04 AM
bjayfan bjayfan is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: USA
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 539
Mein Auto: 2014 M6 Coupe
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoldCAD View Post
Now I don't quite get any of your 2 last posts. Correcting understeer with the right foot is something obvious which I used everyday when driving my old good E46 330i (heck - even with the xDrive F10, too), but then please explain what the LSD has to do with it? No flame, just asking (perhaps just a language problem )
So the basic function of the diff is to allow the rear wheels to be driven under power at different (slightly) rotational speeds to account for the difference of the length of the path the wheels travel in a turn. One benefit, as you allude to, is that the diff significantly reduces the conditions in which rear wheel slippage will occur in turns, which can lead to losing the rear end into a significant oversteer.

That's a given, and I'll now ignore it.

If you now look at a car going through a turn without a diff, the torque vector is in the direction of the centerline of the car. Both wheels are 'pushing' with the same force, and the direction it pushes the car is further to the outside of the turn. The only thing dealing with understeer is then the geometry of the front end.

When correcting for understeer in a car without a diff, you're pushing the car, but the push is at odds with the direction of travel. If there were no rear wheel slippage and you pushed hard enough you would reach a point where you lose the front end, a much more dangerous condition. With no diff, cars are designed where in this circumstance the rear end is lost first, which is much more easily controlled (safer).

In a car with a diff, the torque vector through a turn doesn't follow the centerline. The outside wheel is rotating faster, and when 'getting on it' through a turn the vector is angled to the direction of the turn. The 'Push' is less at odds with the direction of the turn which then allows you to push harder with much less risk of losing the front end. You get more out of the geometry of the front end, and indeed in a well designed car (like a BMW) you can effectively 'steer' with your right foot.

Given that the correction to oversteer is to back off of the car, that doesn't create a quick car if there is natural oversteer. With a slight natural understeer and a geometry that allows you to push through it, you get a quicker car that can handle more situations, and handle them quicker.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:45 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms