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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #1  
Old 08-31-2011, 08:18 PM
BimmerMun BimmerMun is offline
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Paint problem - July 2011 build

I picked up my 535ix today (Hurray!). Unfortunately, there's a problem with the paint. They think it will rub out and that it's not under the clear coat. I have to take it back next week for a rub down. My color is imperial (dark) blue metallic. Unfortunately, there are robin's egg light blue specs at random locations on the car. There are more on the passenger side than the driver's side. No one has a clue what caused them. They're on the black plastic molding too.

I took a close-up picture, which makes the problem look much worse. I'll post the picture below; but please don't go crazy (yet) thinking there's a quality control problem at BMW. The car did sit in the port of NJ while the hurricane went through. Who knows what crud was swirling over our cars. The service manager tried rubbing some special liquid wax on it and it seemed to clean it up. Hopefully, it's not just covering it up.

I only have 23 miles on the car, so I can't yet comment on any performance issues. The radio works great! The dealer forgot my iPhone snap-in adapter, so I couldn't play my own tunes. The family was in shock - they love it.

Lots to learn and configure. Such fun!
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  #2  
Old 08-31-2011, 08:21 PM
soulunderdog soulunderdog is offline
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Interesting hope they can resolve quickly. BTW - you have lots of stuff to set. Enjoy!
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  #3  
Old 08-31-2011, 08:33 PM
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Just thought of this -- was the car outside durring the hurricane? Maybe some particulate debris at high winds which resisted the dealer prep wash?
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  #4  
Old 08-31-2011, 08:34 PM
MBrown1003 MBrown1003 is offline
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Given that the blue spots are on the plastic molding, I'd guess it's something that got on the car in transit. My assumption is that they'll use a glaze to try to remove it. (IMHO, they should have done that before they delivered it to you, but that's a different issue.)

As some may know, BimmerMun's car and mine car shared the crossing on the same vessel. I wonder if mine will have the same symptoms.

Also, congrats on already having your car; I've been told my dealer won't see mine until next week, so it will be something like 35 days from ED dropoff to re-delivery. This wait is worse than the first one!
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  #5  
Old 08-31-2011, 08:40 PM
BimmerMun BimmerMun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MBrown1003 View Post
Given that the blue spots are on the plastic molding, I'd guess it's something that got on the car in transit. My assumption is that they'll use a glaze to try to remove it. (IMHO, they should have done that before they delivered it to you, but that's a different issue.)
I heard that the dealership delivered 18 new vehicles TODAY (last day of the month)! That seemed to be unusually high, judging from the running around going on while I was there. So perhaps the QC on prep was lax by the end of the day and my vehicle suffered from their fatigue. I'm sure they'll make it right; I just don't want to have to wait for another car.
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  #6  
Old 08-31-2011, 08:57 PM
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alewifebp alewifebp is offline
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Dealers are probably catching up with lost days. Mine was closed on Monday and Tuesday.

If it was in fact at the port during the hurricane, you're right, who knows what could be in the air and pounding that it received. I would have to think there will be a lot of paint damaged cars at the VPC.
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  #7  
Old 09-01-2011, 01:54 PM
tbod tbod is offline
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There's nothing in the paint process that would cause that. Something could have gotten on the outside of the car and sat and baked in the heat. Hot clear coat will kind of absorb it and you can usually get it out with more heat (hi speed polisher).
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  #8  
Old 09-01-2011, 06:34 PM
dunccfp dunccfp is offline
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You should not have taken delivery of the car until it was/is rectified.

They may have to wetsand the car to get it off if it baked into the clearcoat. My friend parked his car near his sprinkler and the chemicals from the water baked into the clearcoat. It will not come out without wetsanding.
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  #9  
Old 09-03-2011, 04:11 AM
535Stu 535Stu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunccfp View Post
You should not have taken delivery of the car until it was/is rectified.

They may have to wetsand the car to get it off if it baked into the clearcoat. My friend parked his car near his sprinkler and the chemicals from the water baked into the clearcoat. It will not come out without wetsanding.
+1. Why did you take delivery?
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  #10  
Old 09-03-2011, 12:29 PM
cynerjist cynerjist is offline
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Correct me if I am wrong, but won't waxing or glazing hide the defect not remove it?
Wouldn't clay bar and if required, getting out the polisher with fine pad and finisher be there best course of action?

I would take the car back to them, calmly ask for a definitive plan of action, and take a loaner until the issue is resolved. You should get the BMW survey within 2 weeks of buying. Keeping a loaner car and the upcoming survey are things that will make them move faster not slower. They should not have let you take the car like that. I am guessing that is going to be very easy for them to resolve.
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  #11  
Old 09-03-2011, 02:44 PM
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markl53 markl53 is offline
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Originally Posted by 535Stu View Post
+1. Why did you take delivery?
+1000. I can't believe a dealer would attempt to deliver a car in that condition, and I would never have accepted it. In fact, unless it's totally a light surface condition, removable with a light wax, I would refuse the car and have to order another one. Heavy duty work on a brand new finish to correct a problem that occurred before delivery? NO. The finish may never be the same as the original should have been.
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  #12  
Old 09-03-2011, 03:12 PM
sanf sanf is offline
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request for a loaner and have them redo the entire clear coat
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  #13  
Old 09-03-2011, 03:31 PM
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markl53 markl53 is offline
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request for a loaner and have them redo the entire clear coat
And you feel that a non-factory clear job will be just as good and acceptable? Wow. This is a brand new car which was damaged before the owner ever took delivery.
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  #14  
Old 09-03-2011, 03:52 PM
Financeman Financeman is offline
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If wet sanding is required, demand a replacement. This situation is unacceptable on any new car, especially a $60,000 luxury auto. Good luck!!
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  #15  
Old 09-03-2011, 04:29 PM
sanf sanf is offline
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And you feel that a non-factory clear job will be just as good and acceptable? Wow. This is a brand new car which was damaged before the owner ever took delivery.
well..the biggest problem is that he signed off on it and left the lot. you are right, it's unacceptable but what are his options at this point?
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  #16  
Old 09-03-2011, 07:18 PM
BimmerMun BimmerMun is offline
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Originally Posted by 535Stu View Post
+1. Why did you take delivery?
Leverage.

I now have the car and will dispute the Visa charge when it comes through. If I refused the car, they would have cleaned it up (maybe it's easy, maybe it's not) and sold it to someone else. I'd be out nothing and not have a car. Start over. That's not what I want. I need to have them motivated to make me a happy customer. I have far more leverage as a disgruntled, unsatisfied customer versus being a non customer. If they have to order a 2012 replacement, fine. This is my loaner car until that one comes in. And I'm not paying anything.

They're giving me a loaner (I don't know what kind) while they work on mine. I'll let you know how it goes.
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  #17  
Old 09-03-2011, 08:03 PM
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markl53 markl53 is offline
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Originally Posted by BimmerMun View Post
Leverage.

I now have the car and will dispute the Visa charge when it comes through. If I refused the car, they would have cleaned it up (maybe it's easy, maybe it's not) and sold it to someone else. I'd be out nothing and not have a car. Start over. That's not what I want. I need to have them motivated to make me a happy customer. I have far more leverage as a disgruntled, unsatisfied customer versus being a non customer. If they have to order a 2012 replacement, fine. This is my loaner car until that one comes in. And I'm not paying anything.

They're giving me a loaner (I don't know what kind) while they work on mine. I'll let you know how it goes.
Leverage? Um, you took delivery of a defective automobile. Apparently you signed the papers and are now responsible to the loan or lease related to the purchase. They may not agree to anything at this point. I think you're making a lot of assumptions. Good luck with the problem.
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  #18  
Old 09-03-2011, 09:54 PM
BimmerMun BimmerMun is offline
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Originally Posted by markl53 View Post
Leverage? Um, you took delivery of a defective automobile. Apparently you signed the papers and are now responsible to the loan or lease related to the purchase. They may not agree to anything at this point. I think you're making a lot of assumptions. Good luck with the problem.
I have a contract (lease) with BMW. They have not (yet) delivered the product to which we agreed. Hence, I have not paid. I'm glad that I have signed the papers, as did they. Contracts work both ways. At worst, I give them back the vehicle and we part ways. Not in either party's interest. We'll work it out. I understand that for most people, the most comfortable option would have been to walk away on delivery day, order another car, wait another 6~8 weeks. If you read the fine print, that option still exists. I'm willing to give them a shot at rectifying the problem.
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  #19  
Old 09-04-2011, 06:11 AM
dunccfp dunccfp is offline
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Once that car got titled, a resale back to the dealer makes it a used car and the value plunges. You have hardly any leverage with the dealer.

My guess is that when they prepped the car the spots disappeared or got better (just like it did when they did it in front of you) then they came back. There must be a chemical in the clearcoat. You have a real problem. They will have to wet sand or repaint. Neither is acceptable if it was only one panel much less the whole car. Of course they will tell you they can fix it. The question you should be asking is how will they fix it? By repainting 50% your car ?

Who's going to buy the car back and take the hit, that's what you should be asking yourself....

If the dealer can get BMW to buy it back then you are ok. I would call BMW NA at 800 831 1117 ask for the manager Joe Krommer ext 8846.

Question for you: What option exists that you are referring to?? Lemon law says all they have to do is repair (repaint) it.



http://www.carlemon.com/lemon/NY_law.html


What Is The Manufacturer's Duty To Repair?
With respect to those covered cars sold and registered in New York, the law imposes a duty upon the manufacturer to repair, free of charge and without any deductible, any defect covered by warranty, if the consumer notifies the manufacturer or its authorized dealer of such defect within the first 18,000 miles of operation or two years from the original delivery date, whichever comes first. Once timely notice of the defect is given, the manufacturer may not charge for the repairs, regardless of when the repairs are performed. Any consumer who has been charged for such repairs or a deductible during such period should contact the Attorney General's office.

What Should Consumers Do If They Become Aware Of A Problem With Their Car?
The consumer should immediately report any defect or "condition" either directly to the manufacturer or to its authorized dealer. A "condition" is a general problem, such as a difficulty in starting, repeated stalling, or a malfunctioning transmission, that can result from a defect of one or more parts. If the consumer reports the problem to the dealer, the law requires the dealer to forward written notice to the manufacturer within seven days. Under the law, notice to the dealer is considered notice to the manufacturer. Unless otherwise advised by their lawyer, consumers should continue to make their monthly payments if the car is financed or leased. Failure to do so may result in a repossession which may adversely affect a consumer's lemon law rights.

Most likely, unless you want to take a repainted car (that's all they have to do legally), you are at the mercy of the dealer to take the hit. They may not being it is already titled. Your best shot is with BMW NA. Also, check the cars warrantee record to see if they did anything at the port to rectify the problem.

Last edited by dunccfp; 09-05-2011 at 06:09 AM.
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  #20  
Old 09-04-2011, 06:53 AM
535Stu 535Stu is offline
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You also now have the finance arm involved as well. The dealer has probably been funded the full amount by now.
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  #21  
Old 09-04-2011, 07:42 AM
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markl53 markl53 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerMun View Post
I have a contract (lease) with BMW. They have not (yet) delivered the product to which we agreed. Hence, I have not paid. I'm glad that I have signed the papers, as did they. Contracts work both ways. At worst, I give them back the vehicle and we part ways. Not in either party's interest. We'll work it out. I understand that for most people, the most comfortable option would have been to walk away on delivery day, order another car, wait another 6~8 weeks. If you read the fine print, that option still exists. I'm willing to give them a shot at rectifying the problem.
I'm sorry we seem to be ganging up on you, and I do hope you can resolve the problem. However, my guess is you're either 1) very young, 2) naive, 3) never been "burned" in the real world, or 4) a lawyer . Any resolution should have been performed before you officially took delivery of the vehicle. My dealer here in Maryland would never have attempted to deliver the car to me in its current state. They would have called me and said there was a problem and let's talk about fixing it. Anything other than a light wax job would be unacceptable to me. The fact that your dealer did attempt to deliver the car tells me a lot about their commitment (or lack of it) to their customers. Darn right, I wouldn't have "walked away" but would have summarily rejected the car and requested another order. If they wouldn't do it, then I would walk to another dealer -- but they would have done it. Since it's a lease maybe you don't care as much about the ultimate resolution if it looks OK. I usually buy my cars and I would not take a financial hit due to the increased depreciation due to possible finish corrections. Besides, why would I want to accept a brand new vehicle in a less than perfect condition -- it just doesn't make sense.
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Last edited by markl53; 09-04-2011 at 07:45 AM.
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  #22  
Old 09-04-2011, 12:39 PM
dunccfp dunccfp is offline
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If you do take the car repainted, insist on compensation from BMW.
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  #23  
Old 09-04-2011, 05:05 PM
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K-A K-A is offline
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I'll bet some Cleaner Wax should get it off. If not, then you have a problem

And FYI, *Cleaner* Wax doesn't hide a blemish, if one exists, such as markings on the paint, it will remove it.
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  #24  
Old 09-05-2011, 05:27 AM
tbod tbod is offline
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To me (ex paint guy) it sounds like an easy fix but alas the dealer should've taken care of it. If it's just soap spots then some fine cleaner polish with an orbital polisher or untiring elbow will get it out. If it's bird droppings or something else that's really been baked in the sun, then you may have to wet scuff it out. This isn't difficult, but risky if you get near any corners or character lines since the clear is thinner in those areas. Wet scuff, high speed course polish with wool pad, medium speed medium polish with foam waffle pad, then orbital with foam waffle pad and fine polish is the procedure I use to get stuff out. Any detail shop can do this but the dealer should take care of it.
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Old 09-05-2011, 07:07 AM
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markl53 markl53 is offline
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Originally Posted by tbod View Post
To me (ex paint guy) it sounds like an easy fix but alas the dealer should've taken care of it. If it's just soap spots then some fine cleaner polish with an orbital polisher or untiring elbow will get it out. If it's bird droppings or something else that's really been baked in the sun, then you may have to wet scuff it out. This isn't difficult, but risky if you get near any corners or character lines since the clear is thinner in those areas. Wet scuff, high speed course polish with wool pad, medium speed medium polish with foam waffle pad, then orbital with foam waffle pad and fine polish is the procedure I use to get stuff out. Any detail shop can do this but the dealer should take care of it.
The car is Imperial (dark) blue. I would venture to guess that any all-body heavy duty polishing will leave a body full of swirl marks, always visible in the sun.
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