I am about to replace my ATF and filter and am finally getting around to buying the ATF. I bought the filter and gasket over a year ago! I have the ZF 5HP19 slushbox.
ESSO LT71141 is a bit expensive ($18+/qt) so I am considering ATF alternatives. My previous research indicated that Valvoline Maxlife ATF was an acceptable alternative to ESSO LT71141. Several forum members have used it with success. Just wanting to be double sure before I buy, I checked on the Valvoline website and their spec sheet no longer recommends use in BMWs. A little more checking (a comparison between the old spec sheet and their current one) and it appears that Maxlife has been changed. This link http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1497704 appears to also identify a change in Maxlife and cautions against use in BMWs.
Further research into ATF alternatives identified Mobil 1 synthetic as an acceptable substitute. However, their current spec sheet does not identify it as an alternative for ESSO LT71141.
Royal Purple is another ATF that has been mentioned as an alternative to ESSO but there is less feedback on its use.
My questions are:
1. Is Valvoline Maxlife ATF still considered a viable substitute for ESSO ATF?
2. Is Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF still considered a viable substitute to ESSO ATF?
3. If no to the above, Is there any viable substitute for ESSO ATF?
If the back of the bottle you buy has the LT71141 printed on the label, that formulation is still good. Valvoline changed their formulation last year and viscosity became too thin for LT71141 sepcs.
I've used Castrol Import and it runs great. Shifts are smoother than before the drain and fill. Still meets Lt71141 specs.
Thanx for the fast feedback guys! :bow:
Castrol meets LT71141 and is only $6.29/qt at Advance. Plus there's a deal for 15% off a $100 purchase + a $50 coupon towards a future $100 purchase + free shipping. Can't beat it. :thumbup:
Yep, that's where I got mine when it was on sale for $5ea. I bought 16qts for $3ea after using the 40% off coupons they list regularly on their website and then drove to the store for pickup, 15mins later. At that price, you get a whole ATF drain and fill for the cost of 1 bottle of Amsoil or Esso. Pep boys has it at 2 for $5 from time to time but limit 2 bottles per purchase.
Have you checked the latest formulation or the website?
Their formulation changed last year to a different viscosity. While they may still recommend it "unofficially" the official printing is no longer on the new stock of bottles, the website or the info sheet.
I've added this info and referenced this thread to the wiki so that others seeking a lower cost alternative to ESSO LT71141 will have this latest info on ATF.
Here is what I used in 2009 and I just dropped the pan, replaced gasket & filter. This has worked for me: Bavarian auto has this
TEXAMATIC 7045E Automatic Transmission Fluid - Texaco ETL 7045E - 1 Liter $11.95
Not as cheap as your find admittedly; but I was not trying to save money.
I hope this helps someone.
I recently used Pentosin ATF with good results. I ended up rebuilding my car's transmission, but it wasn't the oil's fault. I bought it at bmaparts for about $13 dollars a liter.
However, BMW transmission fluids 'still' confuse me to no end!
One bit of confusion I have, from having read the Bentleys, is that the 'green sticker' E39 automatic transmission apparently lists BMW PN: 83.22.0.024.359 or Texaco ETL 8072B or Shell LA2634 as its three standards (notice the omission of ESSO LT 71141), while the 'black-stickered' E39 automatic transmissions list Exxon LT-71141 in addition to Dexron III ATF (realistically Dexron VI ATF) & BMW PN: 83.22.9.407.807.
My questions
- What color is Fudman's automatic transmission sticker?
- If green, where does BMW reference Esso/Exxon LT-71141 in green-stickered BMW E39 transmissions?
Can you make sense of these two statements by Mobil on their website today?
Question:
ATF Equivalent for ESSO ATF LT 71141 My question as a mechanic is this, What product available from you is equivalent to ESSO ATF LT 71141? Answer:
We don't have an equivalent product in our product line.
Question:
Does Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF Meet the Requirements for ZF Transmissions? I have found out that Mobil is recommending the Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF as a replacement for the Esso LT 71141 ATF used in BMW transmissions. I have a 1998 BMW 750iL with a ZF 5HP30 transmission, does Mobil Oil guarantee this product as meeting all the requirements of the ZF transmission? Answer:
No. We do not guarantee that the product meets all the requirements of ZF transmissions, which are very extensive depending on the transmission type/model year. ExxonMobil does say that this product is suitable for use in this application based on the type and quality of the recommended fluid, Esso LT 71141.
However, BMW transmission fluids 'still' confuse me to no end!
One bit of confusion I have, from having read the Bentleys, is that the 'green sticker' E39 automatic transmission apparently lists BMW PN: 83.22.0.024.359 or Texaco ETL 8072B or Shell LA2634 as its three standards (notice the omission of ESSO LT 71141), while the 'black-stickered' E39 automatic transmissions list Exxon LT-71141 in addition to Dexron III ATF (realistically Dexron VI ATF) & BMW PN: 83.22.9.407.807.
My questions
- What color is Fudman's automatic transmission sticker?
- If green, where does BMW reference Esso/Exxon LT-71141 in green-stickered BMW E39 transmissions?
My 2003 5HP19 ZF transmission is a Green sticker and requires LT71141 or equivalent. The equivalent is the same stuff called some other name by say Audi or MB using the same formula.
I have the ZF 5HP19 transmission, which requires LT 71141 certified ATF. My local choices were Pentosin ATF1 (at ~$14/litre from my Indy) verses Castrol Import Multi-Vehicle (~$6.50/qt in AutoZone). The Pentosin is a full synthetic, while the Castrol is not.
My Indy will be replacing the torque converter, and I'm having him replace the ATF filter and gasket at the same time. Since this will be a full ATF replacement (8.7 litres), and I don't plan on replacing the ATF frequently, I'll go with the full synthetic Pentosin.
I don't think the LT 71141 is synthetic, nor is Pentosin. I believe they both are semi-synthetic. Excerpt:
ESSO AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION ATF LT 71141
Description: ATF LT 71141 - this is partially synthetic liquid for the automatic transmissions for the severe conditions for work with Longdrain-.Performance for the application in the automatic gearboxes of automobiles. Chosen base oils in the combination with the new, contemporary technology of additives specify the excellent operating characteristics of this liquid for the automatic transmissions especially also with
respect to the future elongated intervals of oil change.....etc
Pentosin ATF1 is the only full synthetic that I came across that meets LT71141. Attached are the product sheets for the Pentosin, Castrol, and ESSO products.
My indy highly recommended the Pentosin due to it being a full synthetic. In my case, that was the main reason for paying more for the Pentosin.
I guess the question is then what does it mean to be LT71141 compliant.
The real question is not which ATF is most similar to ESSO LT71141 but rather should be what ATF (performance characteristics) does ZF require for their trannys. The attached .pdfs only describe the physical characteristics of each ATF. And a comparison indicates different levels of performance. However, both refer to ZF TE ML, 11B or Zf te-.ml11, 14. I believe these documents will identify the minimum performance characteristics that are required of the ATF to be used in the ZF tranny. While the auto manufacturer identifies ATF recommendations, ultimately, it is the tranny manufacturer that knows most about their product and which ATF to use.
As with most products, there appears to be a range of performance characteristics that are acceptable for use. Hence, I would not sweat it regarding which is the "best" ATF to use. Much like motor oil, adequate (to mean meets minimum requirements) is an acceptable solution. And like motor oil, more frequent change intervals is probably more important to reducing wear than the type of ATF when left in for extended durations. When it comes to lubricants, there should be no perceptible performance difference created by using lubricants within the required range of performance. The primary benefit would be in extended service intervals.
Sorry, Blight, I didn't mean to imply it was you who was referring to "best" ATF. It just seems that every other thread is from someone asking about what is the "best oil" or "best ATF" or "best PS fluid" to use. My view is there is no "best" of anything (which is just an opinion). It all depends on what your needs are. For instance, if you don't need low temperature starting and are willing to change out your oil regularly, old fashioned "dino" motor oil is every bit as good as synthetic at a lower cost.
The intent of my original post was to simply identify lower cost alternatives to ESSO. While some have no issue with going with what is recommended and others are willing to pay more for "improved" performance, I fall in the "What is the cheapest that will work the same" camp. I'd rather spend my money on a good bottle of bourbon or wine where I can taste the difference!
This all started as a researching exercise for my own ATF change. The e39 wiki only mentions the Castrol ATF with a link to this thread. My initial post was intended to ensure that people don't blindly go with the LT71141 without knowing the other possible e39 ATF's that might be required.
With all the confusion about ATF, the point was just to ensure that everyone is making informed decisions about what they put into their tranny. I didn't realize that the discussion would evolve into a what's best discussion.
I don't know if Amsoil can be recommended since it carried neither the ESSO LT71141 nor the ZF TE-ML 11b certifications. It only carries certifications for the ZF 5HP30 found on certain the e31, e32, and e34 cars.
I purchased some Valvoline Max Life ATF fluid because Im about to do a fluid change, and it said on the back of the bottle that it is recommended for use in applications using the BMW LT71141. Then I read some conflicting info in this thread. So then I went to the website and it doesnt list the BMW LT71141 on the spec sheet. So its on the bottle, but not on the website. So I called the Valvoline hotline on the bottle, (1800TEAMVAL) and spoke to a Valvoline product technician. He confirms that this fluid IS an "exact substitute for the LT71141." He said the the website is in the process of being updated and is not current. As of right now, according to a Valvoline product technician, the Valvoline MAX LIFE Dex/Merc that has BMW LT71141 on the product label, is an "exact substitute" for the LT71141.
By the way, this fluid is a "Synthetic base", which I assume is a synthetic blend, as is the original Esso/Pentosin fluid.
January 2014 ZF list of approved transmission fluids
The list of lubricants TE-ML 11, Edition 01.04.2014 replaces all previous editions. The current list can be requested from any ZF after-sales service center or accessed on the Internet under www.zf.com/lubricants.
BTW, factory ZF Lifeguard 5 is available in 1 liter bottles from Bavarian Auto for $16.95 each. I've used it for my last two changes (been doing 30k since new), previously I used the Esso, later relabeled Mobil, LT71141.
"...oil (trans fluid) change on automatic transmissions is recommended between 80,000 km and 120,000 km or 8 years, depending on the load. In each case, only released ATF oil may be used for oil changes. And oil changes must be performed in accordance with the relevant specifications."
I would caution anyone about castrol Multi vehicle. Verify on the back of the bottle, the bottles I viewed and the product data on castrol website doesn't mention LT71141. There is mention of transmaxZ bu tit isn't available in the US. I am a little concerned about valvoline being compatible but not an alternative. Hate to beat a dead horse.. I think Pentosin or Texaco. they are thicker and like transmaxz for heavy duty applications.
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