Inside Line reviews the new M5

Mmmmmmm....


Road Test

2012 BMW M5 First Drive
Slightly Less Exotic, yet Still a Better Sport Sedan
By Simon Green, Contributor | Published Sep 21, 2011

Back in 2006 when BMW revealed the last M5 super sedan, fast cars were still all about, well, going fast. BMW crowed about its screaming V10 and no one really cared if it guzzled super unleaded at a furious pace.

Now people care about fuel consumption and emissions, or at least they pretend to. Carmakers have to care, so the 2012 BMW M5 has to do more than just lay two black lines on the road whenever you stand on the right pedal. It has to be efficient while doing so and it can't emit even the faintest hint of black soot in the process.


Which is how we've arrived here, driving a brand-new twin-turbo V8-powered BMW M5. It's down on displacement, more efficient and cleaner-burning, yet somehow it's still a ridiculously fast sport sedan that gives up nothing to its V10 predecessor.

Deal With It
Whether you love forced induction or not, it's here to stay. Not just in economy cars, but supercars and hot rod sedans, too, and that philosophy shift has radically changed the character of the 2012 BMW M5.

The 4,395cc V8 slotted into the new M5's nose is related to the one in the X5 M and X6 M. It's not a direct swap, though - new heads have been fitted, revised twin-scroll turbochargers are nestled in the engine's vee, the intercoolers have been reworked and new pistons raise the compression ratio from 9.3:1 to 10.0:1. Boost pressure climbs to a maximum of 22 psi, partly as a result of a reshaped exhaust that poses less exhaust restriction.

BMW has also fitted its Valvetronic variable valve control. M cars have traditionally used multiple throttle bodies to deliver maximum power, but Valvetronic does away with the conventional throttle butterfly and uses variable intake valve lift to do the job instead. BMW claims the addition of Valvetronic actually improves throttle response, but its real goal is to deliver some more palatable fuel figures. And it appears as though it works, as the new M5's V8 is 30 percent more efficient than the old V10, according to BMW.

Nothing Wrong With a Pair of Turbos
Yeah sure, that's all very nice, but there's only one reason for buying a car like the 2012 BMW M5 and that's for driving absurdly fast. And 30 percent efficiency improvement or not, the M5 delivers.

As ever, the M5's greatest asset is that it hides all this lunacy and performance under the inauspicious clothes of a midsize sedan.

Compared to the previous M5, power rises from an even 500 horses to 560 horsepower at 6,000 rpm. The maximum torque rating remains unchanged at 501 pound-feet, but its arrival starts at a mere 1,500 rpm compared to the V10's late 6,100 torque peak. BMW claims the extra power drops the M5's 0-62-mph time from 4.7 seconds to just 4.4 seconds.

But even that doesn't describe how much faster the new car feels on the road. That huge spread of torque means the effective rev range is much broader than the old car's. The V10's midrange pull was never as weak as detractors made out, but a big overtaking maneuver always meant dropping a couple of gears. Not any longer.

So, a win-win situation then? Almost. All that power means fewer trips to the redline because, well, you don't really need to bother. It's less work, but there's less reward. More importantly, the V8 doesn't sound anywhere near as special as the old V10.

SMG Gives Way to M DCT
We suspect few will mourn the loss of the old M5's clunky SMG transmission. In its place is BMW's new M DCT seven-speed dual-clutch gearbox. You still shift it with those same tactile rubber-backed steering wheel paddles - or by tipping the console stick back and forth if you prefer. But the M DCT is light-years ahead of the old SMG manual, which felt slow and clunky back in 2004, and was feeling positively prehistoric by the time production ended last year.

The new dual-clutch setup is smooth, quick, and makes the engine feel much more responsive than it does in the X5 M and X6 M, both of which make do with a traditional torque-converter-equipped automatic gearbox. But if you enjoyed the slightly scary sensation of the old M5 banging through the gears flat out, you might be surprised to find this one changes without much drama.


The biggest gains are probably in Auto mode, as the DCT does a much better job of slipping unobtrusively between ratios when you're not in the mood to thrash the daylights out of the V8. And instead of the old SMG's bewildering 11 different shift modes, the new one has just six: three for Auto mode and three for Manual.

Feels Like an M5
But just because this M car is easier to drive slowly doesn't mean it's not huge fun to drive fast. It might have had to bow down to the engine downsizing trend, but the M department hasn't rolled over completely.

The steering is still hydraulically assisted rather than electrically driven, as on the other 5 Series cars. And you won't find a set of run-flat tires under the arches, just proper high-performance rubber. There's even a set of six-pot fixed calipers behind the front wheels, replacing the old M5's sliding caliper brakes.

Compared to the old V10 M5 and the current standard 5 Series, this one has a grittier feel to its steering. It gives you a far clearer sense of what's going on down at the front wheels and feels much more precise just off center as you first tip the M5 into a bend. You need that precision, too, because at just 2.6 turns lock-to-lock, the new rack is quick (if not as swift as a normal 5 with active steering) and points the nose into corners with much more enthusiasm. And that's despite a 253-pound increase in curb weight to 4,123 pounds.

The M Factor
As before, there are numerous buttons clustered around the shifter, allowing you to tailor the driving experience to your own taste. But now the fat three-spoke wheel has not one, but a pair of M buttons to summon up either of your two favorite mixes of settings.

Sound like overkill? Not with three settings for throttle response, three ESP modes, six gearbox modes and three damper settings to choose from. The ride is surprisingly good whichever damper mode you choose. As expected, the middle-of-the-road Sport setting provides the best blend of ride and body control for fast road use. That leaves Comfort for broken roads and Sport Plus for tarmac that's smoother than a granite kitchen worktop.


Traction is impressive, too, in part thanks to a brand-new fully active M differential, which uses sensors around the car to decide how to apportion the torque across the rear axle for maximum bite. Or maximum slide. Come on, this is a BMW M5 after all. Switching the DSC to its intermediate setting allows a little slip, enough to let you feel the car moving around, but for the really flamboyant stuff you have to turn the whole lot off. And sure enough, you can.

A More Subtle M5
As ever, the 2012 BMW M5's greatest asset is that it hides all this lunacy and performance under the inauspicious clothes of a midsize sedan. Aesthetic changes over the standard F10 5 Series sedan include an M3-style front bumper with three gaping air intakes, chrome-rimmed gills set into the front fenders, a small trunk lid spoiler and, of course, those four trademark exhaust pipes.

The standard double-spoke wheels measure 19 inches in diameter, and a set of 20s is optional. Seems a bit much given that the standard rubber measures 265/40 in front and 295/35 in back. Either set of wheels looks sharp, though, so you can't really go wrong either way.

If some of the M5's wilder character traits have disappeared in the metamorphosis from E60 to F10, then so have the rough edges. The brakes feel stronger, the performance is more usable and, if the engine is slightly less exciting, the improved chassis and much longer touring range makes up for it. It's all about efficiency these days, remember?

It's a shame the V10 had to go. We're unlikely to see an engine like that again. But the new 2012 BMW M5 is more than just a great engine, it's a better overall sport sedan.

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

Mmmmmmm....


Road Test

2012 BMW M5 First Drive
Slightly Less Exotic, yet Still a Better Sport Sedan
By Simon Green, Contributor | Published Sep 21, 2011

Back in 2006 when BMW revealed the last M5 super sedan, fast cars were still all about, well, going fast. BMW crowed about its screaming V10 and no one really cared if it guzzled super unleaded at a furious pace.

Now people care about fuel consumption and emissions, or at least they pretend to. Carmakers have to care, so the 2012 BMW M5 has to do more than just lay two black lines on the road whenever you stand on the right pedal. It has to be efficient while doing so and it can't emit even the faintest hint of black soot in the process.


Which is how we've arrived here, driving a brand-new twin-turbo V8-powered BMW M5. It's down on displacement, more efficient and cleaner-burning, yet somehow it's still a ridiculously fast sport sedan that gives up nothing to its V10 predecessor.

Deal With It
Whether you love forced induction or not, it's here to stay. Not just in economy cars, but supercars and hot rod sedans, too, and that philosophy shift has radically changed the character of the 2012 BMW M5.

The 4,395cc V8 slotted into the new M5's nose is related to the one in the X5 M and X6 M. It's not a direct swap, though - new heads have been fitted, revised twin-scroll turbochargers are nestled in the engine's vee, the intercoolers have been reworked and new pistons raise the compression ratio from 9.3:1 to 10.0:1. Boost pressure climbs to a maximum of 22 psi, partly as a result of a reshaped exhaust that poses less exhaust restriction.

BMW has also fitted its Valvetronic variable valve control. M cars have traditionally used multiple throttle bodies to deliver maximum power, but Valvetronic does away with the conventional throttle butterfly and uses variable intake valve lift to do the job instead. BMW claims the addition of Valvetronic actually improves throttle response, but its real goal is to deliver some more palatable fuel figures. And it appears as though it works, as the new M5's V8 is 30 percent more efficient than the old V10, according to BMW.

Nothing Wrong With a Pair of Turbos
Yeah sure, that's all very nice, but there's only one reason for buying a car like the 2012 BMW M5 and that's for driving absurdly fast. And 30 percent efficiency improvement or not, the M5 delivers.

As ever, the M5's greatest asset is that it hides all this lunacy and performance under the inauspicious clothes of a midsize sedan.

Compared to the previous M5, power rises from an even 500 horses to 560 horsepower at 6,000 rpm. The maximum torque rating remains unchanged at 501 pound-feet, but its arrival starts at a mere 1,500 rpm compared to the V10's late 6,100 torque peak. BMW claims the extra power drops the M5's 0-62-mph time from 4.7 seconds to just 4.4 seconds.

But even that doesn't describe how much faster the new car feels on the road. That huge spread of torque means the effective rev range is much broader than the old car's. The V10's midrange pull was never as weak as detractors made out, but a big overtaking maneuver always meant dropping a couple of gears. Not any longer.

So, a win-win situation then? Almost. All that power means fewer trips to the redline because, well, you don't really need to bother. It's less work, but there's less reward. More importantly, the V8 doesn't sound anywhere near as special as the old V10.

SMG Gives Way to M DCT
We suspect few will mourn the loss of the old M5's clunky SMG transmission. In its place is BMW's new M DCT seven-speed dual-clutch gearbox. You still shift it with those same tactile rubber-backed steering wheel paddles - or by tipping the console stick back and forth if you prefer. But the M DCT is light-years ahead of the old SMG manual, which felt slow and clunky back in 2004, and was feeling positively prehistoric by the time production ended last year.

The new dual-clutch setup is smooth, quick, and makes the engine feel much more responsive than it does in the X5 M and X6 M, both of which make do with a traditional torque-converter-equipped automatic gearbox. But if you enjoyed the slightly scary sensation of the old M5 banging through the gears flat out, you might be surprised to find this one changes without much drama.


The biggest gains are probably in Auto mode, as the DCT does a much better job of slipping unobtrusively between ratios when you're not in the mood to thrash the daylights out of the V8. And instead of the old SMG's bewildering 11 different shift modes, the new one has just six: three for Auto mode and three for Manual.

Feels Like an M5
But just because this M car is easier to drive slowly doesn't mean it's not huge fun to drive fast. It might have had to bow down to the engine downsizing trend, but the M department hasn't rolled over completely.

The steering is still hydraulically assisted rather than electrically driven, as on the other 5 Series cars. And you won't find a set of run-flat tires under the arches, just proper high-performance rubber. There's even a set of six-pot fixed calipers behind the front wheels, replacing the old M5's sliding caliper brakes.

Compared to the old V10 M5 and the current standard 5 Series, this one has a grittier feel to its steering. It gives you a far clearer sense of what's going on down at the front wheels and feels much more precise just off center as you first tip the M5 into a bend. You need that precision, too, because at just 2.6 turns lock-to-lock, the new rack is quick (if not as swift as a normal 5 with active steering) and points the nose into corners with much more enthusiasm. And that's despite a 253-pound increase in curb weight to 4,123 pounds.

The M Factor
As before, there are numerous buttons clustered around the shifter, allowing you to tailor the driving experience to your own taste. But now the fat three-spoke wheel has not one, but a pair of M buttons to summon up either of your two favorite mixes of settings.

Sound like overkill? Not with three settings for throttle response, three ESP modes, six gearbox modes and three damper settings to choose from. The ride is surprisingly good whichever damper mode you choose. As expected, the middle-of-the-road Sport setting provides the best blend of ride and body control for fast road use. That leaves Comfort for broken roads and Sport Plus for tarmac that's smoother than a granite kitchen worktop.


Traction is impressive, too, in part thanks to a brand-new fully active M differential, which uses sensors around the car to decide how to apportion the torque across the rear axle for maximum bite. Or maximum slide. Come on, this is a BMW M5 after all. Switching the DSC to its intermediate setting allows a little slip, enough to let you feel the car moving around, but for the really flamboyant stuff you have to turn the whole lot off. And sure enough, you can.

A More Subtle M5
As ever, the 2012 BMW M5's greatest asset is that it hides all this lunacy and performance under the inauspicious clothes of a midsize sedan. Aesthetic changes over the standard F10 5 Series sedan include an M3-style front bumper with three gaping air intakes, chrome-rimmed gills set into the front fenders, a small trunk lid spoiler and, of course, those four trademark exhaust pipes.

The standard double-spoke wheels measure 19 inches in diameter, and a set of 20s is optional. Seems a bit much given that the standard rubber measures 265/40 in front and 295/35 in back. Either set of wheels looks sharp, though, so you can't really go wrong either way.

If some of the M5's wilder character traits have disappeared in the metamorphosis from E60 to F10, then so have the rough edges. The brakes feel stronger, the performance is more usable and, if the engine is slightly less exciting, the improved chassis and much longer touring range makes up for it. It's all about efficiency these days, remember?

It's a shame the V10 had to go. We're unlikely to see an engine like that again. But the new 2012 BMW M5 is more than just a great engine, it's a better overall sport sedan.

Perfect! Awesome! If it could shed a few pounds it would be even better but as is, I wouldn't complain. Now just need to test drive it. But with these two changes alone it already fixes 70% of the gripes I have with the 5er. I am sure BMW will have tuned the M5 suspension and made the engine responsive enough for the M moniker.

here's another:
Automobile Magazine
REVIEWS: First Drive: 2012 BMW M5

Dearest M5 Fans,

It's 11:41 pm and I've just returned from dinner with BMW executives after spending 125 miles behind the wheel of the new M5. I have nineteen minutes until my midnight deadline for this story, so what you're going to get is whatever I can type in the next couple of minutes.

First thing's first: the M5 uses a hydraulic steering rack. No fancy active steering, and no electric assist. What does that mean? Well, driving down the cobblestone driveway of our Spanish hotel, I let out a big "it's alliiiiiiiiive!" Steering feel, even at 10 mph, is alive and well in the M5 - which is in distinct contrast to the rest of the 5-series lineup. BMW, I don't care about the 0.001 mpg saved by switching to electric power assist: clearly, this is the right solution. Bring back hydraulic steering on all 5- and 7-series, please.

Better yet, the steering is adjustable to three levels of weight: Comfort, which feels like a normal M product, Sport which is slightly heavier than, say, an M3, and is just plain perfect, and Sport Plus, which makes the steering wheel feel like it's attached to a bowl of split pea soup. It's way too heavy, and I say this not because I'm a weakling, but because the effort is so high but the self-centering tendency isn't: let go of the wheel around a corner and the car keeps turning. It feels unnatural.

The suspension, too, is adjustable in three settings. Comfort is stiff but comfortable, Sport is slightly stiffer, and Sport Plus should only be used by trained chiropractors. It's actually not that bad (on the standard nineteen-inch wheels) but it does come across as unnecessarily harsh. Hey, if you like that kind of thing, go for it. I'm fine with Comfort -- it does everything it needs to without beating you up.

The third adjustment is throttle response, and there are also three modes. Pick which one you like.

The engine, code S63TU B44, is an evolution of the 4.4-liter V-8 S63B44 that debuted in the X5M and X6M. The biggest change, philosophically, is the addition of Valvetronic, which, you'll remember, is BMW's infinitely variable intake valve lift system that eliminates the need for a conventional throttle. This is especially interesting, since M's trademark was always to have individual throttle butterflies for each cylinder. As BMW's brilliant American PR team points out, having Valvetronic on the sixteen intake valves is like having sixteen throttles. Kinda true.

The V-8 also wears two turbos, like before, but revisions to the intake allow higher flow. That, combined inexplicably with higher boost pressure (1.8 bar instead of 1.5) result in no significant power boost: the M5's S53TU makes 560 hp and 500 lb-ft of torque. (Those are provisional numbers; final U.S. tuning hasn't been done yet.) That's five more horses than the non-Valvetronic motor. Or less than one percent more.

The only transmission for us to drive today was the European-specification seven-speed twin-clutch automated manual. An engineer did confirm that a conventional six-speed manual will be available for the U.S. market when the M5 goes on sale in the summer of 2012. It's an existing transmission that's been beefed up for the M5's gargantuan torque. The twin-clutch auto tranny is exclusive to the M5 and it's a good one. Shifts are immediate, and depending on which mode you're in (there are three each for automatic and manual), they're either silky smooth or outrageously harsh. Or in between.

Helping put that power to the ground is a new electronically controlled locking rear differential that can steplessly vary lockup between fully open and fully locked. Strangely, the X6 M's torque-vectoring differential didn't make it into this application. I'll try to find out why. But suffice it to say that you feel the diff in a number of ways: one, no inside wheelspin, ever. Two, you feel the rear of the car shuffling around looking for traction. I love that feeling.

(Uh oh, 9 minutes left.)

How's it drive? Well it goes like stink, that's for sure. It feels even faster than the factory's quoted 4.4-second 0-to-62-mph time, but that number is clearly very traction-limited. On Southern Spain's slippery roads, the M5 easily roasts its tires in first and second and third and sometimes fourth - and it sure feels like the engine computer doesn't even bother to allow full boost in first gear. It'd be pointless anyway. It's very, very fast.

Thanks to the ingenius exhaust port routing from the regular S63 (for details see) the F10 M5 doesn't sound like a normal, burbly, cross-plane-crankshaft V-8. The exhaust note is similar to that of a flat-plane V-8, or a four-cylinder. That means no lope, but a lot of boom at very low (2000 and fewer) revs, and a staggering bark under load. It sounds incredible, especially at startup or at full throttle.

Inside the car, it's a different matter. The engine is quiet and refined, especially when you're off the gas and the exhaust noise subsides. Under full throttle, you're treated to some of the V-8's staccato intake music. Strange music, that is -- it almost sounds like the last M5's V-10.

Which is really, really strange.

Here's something you'll be shocked to learn: when I unplugged the factory stereo amplifier, the engine's note inside the car changed considerably. It was all but inaudible over two grand, becoming more audible but distant as the revs increased. Somebody call the "Ultimate Driving Machine" police: BMW is actually using the car stereo speakers to pipe in engine music? Hmm.

Eh, whatever, so what, the M5 sounds awesome inside or out. The steering is probably the best of any M5 yet (overall, the E60 M5 left us cold, and as much as we loved the E39, that M5's steering used a recirculating ball setup. It was good, but the F10 M5's rack and pinion system is more communicative.)

The biggest disappointment with the M5 is turbo lag. Yeah, yeah, how typical that I'm complaining about a turbocharged M5. Actually, I'm not complaining about the fact that the M5 wears turbos: I'm complaining that the S63TU engine has so much more lag than the non-Valvetronic S63 did. In that silly X6M (and the slightly less silly X5M), the turbos were among the most responsive I've ever experienced. Not so in the M5 - the lag is significant enough that you have to drive around it.

And it seems that M's engineers aren't fully using their arsenal of tools (Valvetronic, Double VANOS, direct injection) to mitigate lag. Case in point, drive at highway speeds, and the transmission is in seventh gear. Floor the throttle and you get a fairly quick downshift into third: revs in the top half of the tach, all is well. The problem is that there's no boost, so you get a clutch engagement, followed by no power for a second, followed by massive thrust. Boost should have been built by the time the downshift was done. VW does it and has been doing so for years. What gives?

Oh, and remember: a full second of lag is one thing in a slow car, but think of the opportunity cost in a car like this! A second of lag is means you've missed out on probably some 15 extra mph. Seems like a small problem, but it got old very quickly when trying to pass slower traffic on country roads.

The M5 has a standard start/stop system, and it works flawlessly. The engine is vocal enough that you really notice it turning off, but it starts immediately the second you start pulling your foot off the brake pedal. We've seen some claims from BMW that the new car is a full thirty percent more efficient than its predecessor, but later documents tone that down a bit. EPA numbers probably won't be out until this summer. It's safe to say the 4.4-liter V-8 will use less fuel overall than the outgoing 5.0-liter V-10, but how much of a savings will certainly depend on how hard you drive it.

For the record, I got 10.8 mpg, which is not bad at all considering how I drove. Which was like a jerk, obviously. Don't look at me like that you would have done the same!

Speaking of that kind of driving, I'll be on track tomorrow, and will be able to report more about what the M5 does on grippy surfaces. I can say that once you hit moderate speeds, this M5 is delightfully neutral, and will happily exit any corner butt-first should you ask it to. The long wheelbase makes drifts slow and controlled, and the brilliant steering reduces your stress factor to zero.

(OMG one minute left.)

There's a bit of lost isolation in the rear of the M5 compared to the regular 5-series: the subframes are rigidly attached to the body, which means you hear the differential working, and the ride is a bit more gritty. Bad thing? Not to me. This is an M5, if you want super refinement you can buy a 550i. And the whole point of an M5 is skirting along the compromise of packing sports car moves into a luxury sedan body.

And in that sense, this M5 is a far better M5 than the last one (which was always a bit too high-strung and sterile for its own good.) It's got almost all of the refinement of the current 5-series, all of the tech features, gorgeous styling, and elegant interior. And then it's got razor-sharp handling and the best steering we've seen in a 5-series in a long time, if not ever. And then it'll rip that smile off your face with outrageous acceleration. And if you're in Germany, and you buy the driver's pack, you'll be able to test out the raised 190-mph limiter. 190! In a sedan.

Time's up.

This M5 is very nice.
It's not my preference for a ride but it's definitely very very nice.

This review mentions the lack of steering self-centering that mentioned in a previous post.

***Sent from the interwebs on technology that's way beyond my pay grade***

Originally Posted by PsychDoc1

This review mentions the lack of steering self-centering that mentioned in a previous post.

***Sent from the interwebs on technology that's way beyond my pay grade***

Where did you read that? Most of the review was pretty positive on the steering on the M5.
Got to still drive it before final judgement.

Originally Posted by Nobrandfanboy

Where did you read that? Most of the review was pretty positive on the steering on the M5.
Got to still drive it before final judgement.

Sorry. That was from the Automobile magazine review quoted in a previous post.

***Sent from the interwebs on technology that's way beyond my pay grade***

Hydraulic steering and no runflats; kind of sounds like my car!

Now only if they give it some lightweight wheels and xDrive, they might have something.

Nice. If it was released now, I would probably switch my order. But as is, I'm going to stick with the 550 plan, and then look at S8 or M6 Sedan later on.

Originally Posted by TJPark01

An engineer did confirm that a conventional six-speed manual will be available for the U.S. market when the M5 goes on sale in the summer of 2012.

hallelujah...!

Originally Posted by TJPark01

It's an existing transmission that's been beefed up for the M5's gargantuan torque.

I think I am getting goosebumps now..

Originally Posted by bmw_enthusiasm

hallelujah...!




I think I am getting goosebumps now..

Not to mention it comes in my favorite color - Monte Carlo Blue.

Engine sound in the loudspeakers...WTF. Otherwise It sounds like the M5 is what the regular F10 should have been minus the monster engine, DCT, LSD and jungle of settings. Sounds pretty good from the reviews but personally I would prefer something lighter with less technology. Hopefully there will be an F30 M3.

Originally Posted by Stealth.Pilot

Not to mention it comes in my favorite color - Monte Carlo Blue.

oh my!
is gona be soo sweet: the day I will be dumbing the 550i in the dealers lot for the M5!
without even kissing goodbye!? yes

and saying Hello to M5! with a warm kiss?
and I 'll be like...
Baby...forgive my manners...I ve suffer a lot wit this ******...(550i)
I think i am dreaming...really...? I am with you now?
:she will be whispering from her exhaust... Hunny its ok...I know what you ve been through

relax... its reward time now

laying back...hitting the pedal..smooth touch...Ouch!

Originally Posted by solstice

Engine sound in the loudspeakers...WTF. Otherwise It sounds like the M5 is what the regular F10 should have been minus the monster engine, DCT, LSD and jungle of settings. Sounds pretty good from the reviews but personally I would prefer something lighter with less technology. Hopefully there will be an F30 M3.

Just hope they keep the weight of the F30 M3 down. Hopefully they will use more of this carbon fibre that I think Southlight was talking about.

Originally Posted by Nobrandfanboy

Just hope they keep the weight of the F30 M3 down. Hopefully they will use more of this carbon fibre that I think Southlight was talking about.

if they continue the en-Large philosophy...3 body series and consequently M3
is expected to have a chasis that will be comparable to the old E60's...?
given that the F10 chasis has the 7 series..size

then if you like current M3 you will have to get in an M1 thats essentially no different than a 135..or 335..

Originally Posted by bmw_enthusiasm

if they continue the en-Large philosophy...3 body series and consequently M3
is expected to have a chasis that will be comparable to the old E60's...?
given that the F10 chasis has the 7 series..size

then if you like current M3 you will have to get in an M1 thats essentially no different than a 135..or 335..

I got two kids so the 1-series is out, well to be honest I would consider squeezing them into a 911 but that's pretty much the only coupe in the running. Otherwise I really like the size of the E60 so if there will be an F30 sedan it could be an option but it needs to be really, really good to not feel like a trade down from the E90 M3. It's a spectacular sedan as you know

Ooh, this is a car that could swing me into the F10 for real, although it's just SUCH a pointless and ridiculously gluttonous for me. It's gotta be in that blue color.

Personally, I've always said that the E-Class usually is more my speed than the 5-Series, but there's something exotic and just "cool" about the M5, therefore I'd probably take an M5 over an E63. Either way, I can't wait to see this thing. I hope it has that subtle yet cunning presence of a proper M5.

For the non F10 fanboys who are gathering in this thread - who have been persistently complaining that "heavier" necessarily means "worse", and who are still wrangling for an ass's shadow

Quote "And that's despite a 253-pound increase in curb weight to 4,123 pounds...But the new 2012 BMW M5 is more than just a great engine, it's a better overall sport sedan." http://www.insideline.com/bmw/5-seri...ison-test.html

Quote "And in that sense, this M5 is a far better M5 than the last one (which was always a bit too high-strung and sterile for its own good.) It's got almost all of the refinement of the current 5-series, all of the tech features, gorgeous styling, and elegant interior. And then it's got razor-sharp handling and the best steering we've seen in a 5-series in a long time, if not ever. And then it'll rip that smile off your face with outrageous acceleration. And if you're in Germany, and you buy the driver's pack, you'll be able to test out the raised 190-mph limiter. 190! In a sedan." http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews...5/exhaust.html

Originally Posted by dunderhi

Hydraulic steering and no runflats; kind of sounds like my car!

Now only if they give it some lightweight wheels and xDrive, they might have something.

Well BMW has indicated there might be M5 xi . Not sure how that would differ from your sweet 550 xi

lol I need to pick a car and order something before this comes out otherwise I'm going to have an M5xi and I'll get murdered on the insurance (being under 30 and all )


I love m5 reviews

Originally Posted by SuperTerp

lol I need to pick a car and order something before this comes out otherwise I'm going to have an M5xi and I'll get murdered on the insurance (being under 30 and all )


I love m5 reviews

Get a GT-R for AWD and power.

Originally Posted by dalekressin

Get a GT-R for AWD and power.

Already looked into that near 3k a year (not that I can't afford insurance, just the personal principle behind paying that much to drive your OWN car) with zero tickets/good grade discount + I'm not really a fan of budget hp. I think the black edition too would run you pretty close to M5 money anyway.

I've spent many miles inside a GTR, and while it's an incredible tool, and a huge overstated attention grabber, from inside and driving around town in normal day to day traffic, you might as well be in any craptastic Nissan or the like. Low rent interior and surprisingly quiet and docile on the road (a good thing, but it feels so "normal" and sounds like a vaccum cleaner, it just begs for a loud exhaust to liven it up to what you know it wants to be). I've heard that the facelifted version has mended the interior issue a tad.

Originally Posted by Munich77

Well BMW has indicated there might be M5 xi . Not sure how that would differ from your sweet 550 xi

They dispelled that rumor. They said that the new advanced M Differential alleviated the need for AWD.

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

They dispelled that rumor. They said that the new advanced M Differential alleviated the need for AWD.

Other than for snow and ice I can understand that. The M3s LSD gives an incredible grip and secure feeling on dry and wet roads. You really need to drive one in wet conditions to realize how effective it is. It grips like an awd without the drawbacks of an awd. A very good choice for the M5 IMO.