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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #26  
Old 09-22-2011, 09:33 PM
bmw_enthusiasm bmw_enthusiasm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
They dispelled that rumor. They said that the new advanced M Differential alleviated the need for AWD.
I was always thinking about that..so glad if this is true.
It would be a real insult to the M brand if the X would intrude
  #27  
Old 09-22-2011, 09:50 PM
Heartsurg997 Heartsurg997 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw_enthusiasm View Post
I was always thinking about that..so glad if this is true.
It would be a real insult to the M brand if the X would intrude
Why?
Why not enjoy the ride as the M division explores new technology?
Is the 911 Turbo RWD? No

Your observational bias has overwhelmed you.
Anecdotal evidence isn't.
This is not to derail the OP's thread.
The M5 promises to be a great car. Although I am sure there will be owners that will hate it.
  #28  
Old 09-22-2011, 11:17 PM
bmw_enthusiasm bmw_enthusiasm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsurg997 View Post
Why?
Why not enjoy the ride as the M division explores new technology?
Is the 911 Turbo RWD? No
4 wheel is not a new technology --been there for a while..
besides the differential is adequate as was mentioned..

The idea of putting xi on M5
is like gay marriage ... there is always gona be the ones who
say its progressive to accept something like that
and the ones who say this is by definition insane and contradicts the whole idea.

so you know, you can let the the craziness be as soon as it doesn't knock on your door.
i.e.: In the end of the day I don't' care as soon as the RWD will be available.


911 offers "50" different flavors totally different beast.
M3/ M5 is one, was always one
its a philosophy.
  #29  
Old 09-23-2011, 03:24 AM
BobBigMan BobBigMan is offline
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The best affordable ........ only just, big performance saloon just got better. It's looks have in my opinion improved on the already very pretty F10 by giving it's looks real purpose and menace and those 19" rims are a welcome return and look a million times better than the optional 20". Three real concerns have been frequently voiced about this M5 prior to anyone testing it outside of M-Division, they were the switch to turbos, the probably increase in weight and how easily controlled would all this power and torque be going through only the rear wheels; well it looks like all these concerns were unfounded, the new turbo engine though not quite as instantly responsive as before is still the best of it's breed, the weight increase though sizable doesn't look to have dulled it's balance and involvement and finally the new eLSD has done a master stroke of controlling all that available power .......... up to a point.

The best just got better, hats off to BMW we should never have doubted you.

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Last edited by BobBigMan; 09-23-2011 at 03:36 AM.
  #30  
Old 09-23-2011, 06:40 AM
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No xDrive will mean no M5 for me. I've passed on AMG sedans for the same reason. If a car can't get me to my garage door when it is snowing, it can't be my daily driver. I guess I'm just spoiled I'm that situation.
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  #31  
Old 09-23-2011, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw_enthusiasm View Post
4 wheel is not a new technology --been there for a while..
besides the differential is adequate as was mentioned..

The idea of putting xi on M5
is like gay marriage ... there is always gona be the ones who
say its progressive to accept something like that
and the ones who say this is by definition insane and contradicts the whole idea.

so you know, you can let the the craziness be as soon as it doesn't knock on your door.
i.e.: In the end of the day I don't' care as soon as the RWD will be available.


911 offers "50" different flavors totally different beast.
M3/ M5 is one, was always one
its a philosophy.
1. It looks like you are not familiar with new xDrive. It actually feels like RWD because of RW bias: 60/40 - default and 80/20 - when cornering.
2. Heartsurg997 was talking about 911 Turbo which is AWD only.
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  #32  
Old 09-23-2011, 07:10 AM
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I almost cried reading that !
  #33  
Old 09-23-2011, 07:16 AM
SuperTerp SuperTerp is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunderhi View Post
No xDrive will mean no M5 for me. I've passed on AMG sedans for the same reason. If a car can't get me to my garage door when it is snowing, it can't be my daily driver. I guess I'm just spoiled I'm that situation.
Same we've gotten destroyed in this area these past few years with snow. No way I'm taking the chance with some of the hills we have. Blizzaks or not
  #34  
Old 09-23-2011, 07:55 AM
Munich77 Munich77 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunderhi View Post
No xDrive will mean no M5 for me. I've passed on AMG sedans for the same reason. If a car can't get me to my garage door when it is snowing, it can't be my daily driver. I guess I'm just spoiled I'm that situation.
Same for me. I know they are dispelling the myth for the M5 but if you want the upcoming Grand Coupe and its M6 Grand Coupe Counterpart to upstage the CLS and especially the Panamera Turbo, AWD would be a great thing to add. From a manufacturing perspective it seems like an easy add-on - the 5 series and X5 are built on similar platforms if I am not mistaken so the X5M x-drive ought to fit. If not I am certain that the 550 xi x-drive system can be modified to handle the power upgrade.
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  #35  
Old 09-23-2011, 08:02 AM
bmw_enthusiasm bmw_enthusiasm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geo3515 View Post
1. It looks like you are not familiar with new xDrive. It actually feels like RWD because of RW bias: 60/40 - default and 80/20 - when cornering.
yeah I know.
look, I sympathize with people in my region, but the way enthusiasts see the M5 is like
a special car that cannot afford compromises
Many are the special cars who cannot be driven in the snow, and so do Motorcycles etc

All these can only be driven for parts of the year. M5 is one of them. and on top of it will allow you to stretch the year with the differential.
So thank BMW, if its true it will continue being with RWD only.
I think BMW would put Xdrive on M5 if it really wanted to commersialize it. (a 100K car?)
It seems this was never the case for the M series.
  #36  
Old 09-23-2011, 08:27 AM
highyo highyo is offline
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i know this is hijacking the thread a bit, but are winters with RWD that much worse than AWD with all seasons?
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  #37  
Old 09-23-2011, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by highyo View Post
i know this is hijacking the thread a bit, but are winters with RWD that much worse than AWD with all seasons?
No RWD with winters are better. Ask anyone in Scandinavia. AWD only helps with accelerating in the snow, but winter tires help provide more physical traction for both accelerating and braking. Since braking is the biggest issue in snowy and icy conditions, the tires are more important than the drivetrain configuration.
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  #38  
Old 09-23-2011, 10:38 AM
solstice solstice is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth.Pilot View Post
No RWD with winters are better. Ask anyone in Scandinavia. AWD only helps with accelerating in the snow, but winter tires help provide more physical traction for both accelerating and braking. Since braking is the biggest issue in snowy and icy conditions, the tires are more important than the drivetrain configuration.
Absolutely, good winter tires is the key to safe winter driving not awd. Awd probably causes some accidents by tricking people into thinking that it's ok to go out in conditions that requires winters.

Last edited by solstice; 09-23-2011 at 10:45 AM.
  #39  
Old 09-23-2011, 10:55 AM
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Snow tires and AWD do not need to be mutually exclusive. I have both since many years of personal experience have proven to me that RWD and snow tires only sometimes makes it up my driveway. In flatter areas, RWD and decent all-seasons might work just fine, so it depends on your driving conditions.
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  #40  
Old 09-23-2011, 10:59 AM
Nobrandfanboy Nobrandfanboy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw_enthusiasm View Post
yeah I know.
look, I sympathize with people in my region, but the way enthusiasts see the M5 is like
a special car that cannot afford compromises
Many are the special cars who cannot be driven in the snow, and so do Motorcycles etc

All these can only be driven for parts of the year. M5 is one of them. and on top of it will allow you to stretch the year with the differential.
So thank BMW, if its true it will continue being with RWD only.
I think BMW would put Xdrive on M5 if it really wanted to commersialize it. (a 100K car?)
It seems this was never the case for the M series.
AWD is not just for winters. In this day and age with luxury sedans and sports cars easily having 500+hp/tq awd is almost a given. Look at all the exotic cars and really fast cars nowadays and you will see that more are with AWD than without. The fact is that it not only makes the cars safer for the avg. joe to drive but it also makes it easier to put the power down. Not fun when you just spin your wheels or only get 50-70% of power down while some kid in a STI AWD with only 300hp dusts you. I don't think manufacturers like Ferrari, Lamborghini, Porsche, Bugatti, Nissan GT-R etc. put AWD on the cars just for fun.

For winter:
RWD + Winter tires > AWD + AS
AWD + Winter tires > RWD + Winters
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Last edited by Nobrandfanboy; 09-23-2011 at 11:04 AM.
  #41  
Old 09-23-2011, 11:02 AM
solstice solstice is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunderhi View Post
Snow tires and AWD do not need to be mutually exclusive. I have both since many years of personal experience have proven to me that RWD and snow tires only sometimes makes it up my driveway. In flatter areas, RWD and decent all-seasons might work just fine, so it depends on your driving conditions.
Also true. If you have both it's better. That said I drove for over 10 years in Sweden without awd and never had an accident or got stuck. Actually not enterily true I went off the road once while practicing for my license when my dad who was a semi-pro rallye driver was teaching me to get out of a four wheel slide. This was on a forest road with snow banks higher than the car and the sticks who marks the start of the ditches was totally covered so I put a wheel over the shoulder and immediately dived into the bank. My dad walked a mile and found a farmer who pulled us out with his tractor...fond memories.

Last edited by solstice; 09-23-2011 at 11:03 AM.
  #42  
Old 09-23-2011, 11:05 AM
BobBigMan BobBigMan is offline
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Fully understand the reasonings why you aren't happy about no 4wd as I too chose my A6 over the 5 series for the very same reason because the Bimmer didn't offer 4wd here. Though I still think it's one hell of an achievement to harness this amount of power to the extent that Chris Harris from EVO UK reckon it's got much more grip than his 1M Coupe he drives daily.
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  #43  
Old 09-23-2011, 01:12 PM
Nobrandfanboy Nobrandfanboy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobBigMan View Post
Fully understand the reasonings why you aren't happy about no 4wd as I too chose my A6 over the 5 series for the very same reason because the Bimmer didn't offer 4wd here. Though I still think it's one hell of an achievement to harness this amount of power to the extent that Chris Harris from EVO UK reckon it's got much more grip than his 1M Coupe he drives daily.
I think the reason for it is because the rear tires on the M5 is massive, something like 295. This might be one of the reasons the car is so heavy. Need lots of insulation to drown out the tire noise. j/K
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  #44  
Old 09-23-2011, 01:22 PM
BobBigMan BobBigMan is offline
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Originally Posted by Nobrandfanboy View Post
I think the reason for it is because the rear tires on the M5 is massive, something like 295. This might be one of the reasons the car is so heavy. Need lots of insulation to drown out the tire noise. j/K
One thing all Bimmers do extremely well is suppress road noise, even the X5 with their 315 rear tyres have exceptional good noise suppression so I doubt the M5 will be any different. But I do agree that the weight increase was more than expected but it looks to have coped with this extremely well.
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  #45  
Old 09-23-2011, 01:50 PM
richschneid richschneid is offline
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The car I really wanted was an M5 xDrive but I had to settle for the 550i xDrive. I have Blizzaks on all four wheels in the winter. I had four Dunlop Wintersport M3s on my 650i and had to leave it in the garage for three weeks the last winter I had it and drive my wife's Accord or my stepson's Neon, both with four Blizzaks, until our three feet of snow in Pittsburgh was finally gone.

In case no one has noticed there is a lot more water in the atmosphere lately and we are having a lot more snow in the Northeast including Conn, MA, and NY. RWD with snows is just not as good as AWD with snows. Besides, with over 500 of both hp and torque there is no way a RWD car can handle and perform as well in the dry as a modern AWD can at under 100 mph. That's one reason why the top of the line $173,000 Panamera Turbo is equipped with AWD. Let's get into the 21st century guys!

Now maybe a 550i xDrive with Dinan Stg 2 and Michelin PSS tires will blow out an F10 M5 in 0-60 and in the 1/4 mile. And probably on a tight road course as well. And save 15-20 grand in addition. I would love to see that comparo in Car and Driver.
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  #46  
Old 09-23-2011, 02:21 PM
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The M5 is looking like a spectacular car. My only issue is the decision to synthesize engine noise in the cabin through the car's audio system. That for me does cross the line, the engine note has always been one of the best things about the M5 and it's disappointing to see that BMW felt it needed to be artificially enhanced in this way. Still, I'm very much looking forward to taking a drive in one.
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  #47  
Old 09-23-2011, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by swajames View Post
The M5 is looking like a spectacular car. My only issue is the decision to synthesize engine noise in the cabin through the car's audio system. That for me does cross the line, the engine note has always been one of the best things about the M5 and it's disappointing to see that BMW felt it needed to be artificially enhanced in this way. Still, I'm very much looking forward to taking a drive in one.
Active Sound Design enhances V8 burble inside BMW M5
Quote:
According to the text, BMW has employed a system it's calling "Active Sound Design" on the new M5, which takes in engine speed and load data from the ECU and plumbs it through the stereo to play a real-time recording of the M5's engine.

Here's BMW's official explanation:
The Active Sound Design technology specially developed for the new BMW M5 takes its cues from the driving situation at any one time to deliver an accurate reproduction of the engine's sound through the car's audio system. The system's digital signal processing exchanges data directly with the engine management, allowing it to reflect the engine's revs and torque, and the car's speed over the road. The result over a smoothly driven journey is a discreet soundtrack in keeping with the harmonious and assured characteristics of the V8 powerplant. A stamp on the accelerator, meanwhile, prompts an immediate audible response to match the instantaneous and typically M burst of power from beneath the bonnet.

BMW claims the system provides an "extremely accurate impression of current engine load" and that the sound has been optimized to spread across the entire cabin. Not only that, but when Sport or Sport+ is engaged, the sound inside the M5 is enhanced and perfectly sequenced with induction, engine and exhaust noises. We're not sure if we're geeked or disturbed, but it's certainly trick.
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  #48  
Old 09-24-2011, 09:03 PM
bmw_enthusiasm bmw_enthusiasm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobrandfanboy View Post
Ferrari, Lamborghini, Porsche, Bugatti, Nissan GT-R etc. put AWD on the cars just for fun.
Correction by definition everything is just for fun - its about driving.

So you can relax your heavy assumptions and look at the facts:

few things here,

1) 50-50 weight ratios, DSC, DTC, active differential all
make RWD feasible at huge amounts of torque


3) if the design requires an AWD then let it be;
it is evident that M cars never had the design or needed to do that neither they will in the near / far future.
BMW knows how to get the most out of it with a RWD architecture. Its in their culture.
Besides, lets note that BMW's Xdrive is not top of the line (i.e. look at audi etc..)

4) Average Joe shouldn't be in the lamborghini or if he is fortunate enough to end up there
its allright to let him spend some time and learn it.

Last edited by bmw_enthusiasm; 09-24-2011 at 09:05 PM.
  #49  
Old 09-24-2011, 09:35 PM
Nobrandfanboy Nobrandfanboy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw_enthusiasm View Post
Correction by definition everything is just for fun - its about driving.

So you can relax your heavy assumptions and look at the facts:

few things here,

1) 50-50 weight ratios, DSC, DTC, active differential all
make RWD feasible at huge amounts of torque


3) if the design requires an AWD then let it be;
it is evident that M cars never had the design or needed to do that neither they will in the near / far future.
BMW knows how to get the most out of it with a RWD architecture. Its in their culture.
Besides, lets note that BMW's Xdrive is not top of the line (i.e. look at audi etc..)

4) Average Joe shouldn't be in the lamborghini or if he is fortunate enough to end up there
its allright to let him spend some time and learn it.
1) The problem with DSC, DTC and all of these electronic nannies is that it actually hinders the performance. When it detects spin what does it do? Transfer it to another wheel if you are lucky enough that wheel isn't spinning otherwise it is cutting power. AWD with more grip doesn't have to do this as often. So it actually gets more of the cars power down than cutting it out. This is one of the reasons a the cars I mention have the AWD. You can get all 500hp to the ground instead of the electronics telling you can only have 400 of the 500 because we have to cut power.

3) BMW is considering AWD for a reason and I am willing to bet it is because they know that AWD has many benefits for street cars especially ones with high hp/torque. Look at the performance numbers of the 550i vs 550xi for example.
Are u that sure it won't be in the near future? You want to put money on this?

All said an done even though I prefer AWD if I only had one car. I would buy the M5 in RWD just for the fun factor but would not drive it in the winter time. Summer car only.
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Last edited by Nobrandfanboy; 09-24-2011 at 11:14 PM.
  #50  
Old 09-24-2011, 10:04 PM
Calgary Agent Calgary Agent is offline
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I would bet that most (all) of those suggesting RWD is as good as or better than AWD don't have to drive thru snowdrifts and ice-caked roads for 6 months of the year. Obviously in these conditions snow tires are a must (All Season tires in these types of conditions just don't work).

I've got 4 excellent snow tires on my RWD 550 and it's next to useless in extreme weather - I leave it in the garage and drive the 4Runner
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