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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #26  
Old 09-29-2011, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by gr8nrg View Post
Totally agree. Was in West Hollywood / Beverly Hills this past weekend - saw at least 7-8 different F10's, 5 Panameras and 2 Mazeratis.
The parking garage at my gym look like a Euro Car dealership. The F10 may as well be a Honda Accord. There are 2 new CLS550's and a light blue Ferrari 599. You'd have to drive a Pagani Huayra to differentiate yourself here.
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  #27  
Old 09-29-2011, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by kssod View Post
Still considering a 535xi as replacement for my RL. Thought it would be interesting to hear from owners their thought on BMW "uniqueness" and problems.
From my brief test drive, in no particular order:
1) pull inside handle 2x to exit
2) central door lock button on dash
3) gear selector: up for R, push button for park, up for downshift in sport mode, park button on top can accidentally be pressed while at speed (lockout?) shifter totally electric so unable to put in N if loose power
4) idrive for radio, no easy way to switch between FM, Sirius, etc
5) packages
Issues:
1) 19" tires
2) multiple fault codes: transmission, suspension (ARS), etc
3) Long term reliability and repeated inconvenient warranty issues

Still think it is a great car, but hesitant to make the jump after years of Acura reliability
I moved from an RL (2005) to a 2011 550i - both bought new - and here are my feelings about the move:

All the driver/machine electronic interface is much better thought out and more user friendly and usable in the RL.
RL is easier to get in and out of and it has much better outwards visibility.
Very few things annoyed me when using the RL, many more do with my 550i
The engine in my 550i is light years ahead of the RL - Honda engines are torqueless and this BMW engine is a torque monster.
I fully expected my 550i to be the most unreliable piece of **#% on the planet and it has surprised me indeed - nothing! has gone wrong with it in 9,000 + miles so far.
My 550 is more fun to drive than the RL with better ride and handling.

Would I do it again? Yes. . . . but, I'm ready to look at Acura again if they bring something better looking and more powerful to the market.
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  #28  
Old 09-29-2011, 12:58 PM
Bimmer3oi Bimmer3oi is offline
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i'm in a similar position as the OP...i'm looking to buy a car some time between now and next spring, and am interested in the 535i...but reading about the issues with "tip-in" and the RFTs, as well as other smaller problems/inconveniences, scares me

maybe the 2012s will have less issues?

i'm also waiting on driving reviews of the all-new Lexus GS 350 to see if it will be as "sporty" as advertised
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  #29  
Old 09-29-2011, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1HOT BMR View Post
I moved from an RL (2005) to a 2011 550i - both bought new - and here are my feelings about the move:

All the driver/machine electronic interface is much better thought out and more user friendly and usable in the RL.
RL is easier to get in and out of and it has much better outwards visibility.
Very few things annoyed me when using the RL, many more do with my 550i
The engine in my 550i is light years ahead of the RL - Honda engines are torqueless and this BMW engine is a torque monster.
I fully expected my 550i to be the most unreliable piece of **#% on the planet and it has surprised me indeed - nothing! has gone wrong with it in 9,000 + miles so far.
My 550 is more fun to drive than the RL with better ride and handling.

Would I do it again? Yes. . . . but, I'm ready to look at Acura again if they bring something better looking and more powerful to the market.
Sorry, but for me, the RL is simply a "wannabe". It's an overpriced TL, and many press reviews echo this. I think after owning the 550i a little longer, your desire to go back to Acura/RL will diminish. They really aren't in the same class, IMO. You're actually better off with a loaded TL. I don't think most people in the mid-level executive sedan crowd pay much attention to the RL.
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  #30  
Old 09-29-2011, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by markl53 View Post
Sorry, but for me, the RL is simply a "wannabe". It's an overpriced TL, and many press reviews echo this. I think after owning the 550i a little longer, your desire to go back to Acura/RL will diminish. They really aren't in the same class, IMO. You're actually better off with a loaded TL. I don't think most people in the mid-level executive sedan crowd pay much attention to the RL.
41 people in August disagree with you!

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  #31  
Old 09-29-2011, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by markl53 View Post
Sorry, but for me, the RL is simply a "wannabe". I don't think most people in the mid-level executive sedan crowd pay much attention to the RL.
Not only for you but for many other people the RL is simply a "wannabe". For many people in the mid-level executive sedan crowd an emblem is sometimes more important than value and features, so yes, these people pay no attention to the RL. The RL is just a glorified Honda unlike Lexus where Toyota managed to market the brand as the luxury brand it is today . . . , but what a magnificent car the RL was for me. I'm one of those people that could not care less about the brand recognition so I don't mind driving a "wannabe" - heck, I was seriously considering a Cadillac (CTS-V) when I made the decision to buy the 550
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  #32  
Old 09-29-2011, 04:49 PM
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41 people in August disagree with you!

Even less popular than the foreclosure candidate on-again, off-again, on-again Saab 9-5.
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  #33  
Old 09-29-2011, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by 1HOT BMR View Post
Not only for you but for many other people the RL is simply a "wannabe". For many people in the mid-level executive sedan crowd an emblem is sometimes more important than value and features, so yes, these people pay no attention to the RL. The RL is just a glorified Honda unlike Lexus where Toyota managed to market the brand as the luxury brand it is today . . . , but what a magnificent car the RL was for me. I'm one of those people that could not care less about the brand recognition so I don't mind driving a "wannabe" - heck, I was seriously considering a Cadillac (CTS-V) when I made the decision to buy the 550
Here's my thing, well a couple of things. I've (wife) owned 3 TL's as I mentioned, and truthfully, I never think of them as Hondas. In that regard, I think Acura does a good job of differentiation as an upscale brand. I just think the RL never really hit the full mark as being an alternative to MB E's or 5's. Maybe more like an Infiniti M (which I also don't think is a direct alternative to E/5.) I don't think the RL is that much different bell and whistle or feature-wise from a TL, and I really don't see the BFD about the Acura sophistication of technology. It's got the standard complement of features and I don't see that they work all that better than anyone else's. What features are you talking about that were so fantastic? Engine/chassis? Nav? Audio system? Certainly not the climate control system. Comfort? Typically the TL was a great value for the money but the latest gen is priced too high in the segment. Besides the "ugly" factor, the pricing has definitely cut into the sales, IMO. And if you wanted a speed demon, the CTS-V was the way to go.
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  #34  
Old 09-30-2011, 06:13 AM
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Agree 100%. RL is an overpriced TL. The TL is a bit overpriced as well, but Acura just placed $1,250 dealer money back on them so you can get one for about $36K and $39K for the SH-AWD model. I own the SH-AWD, which is fun to drive and much different than the FWD model. For $20K less than the F10, and a very high residual value, it ain't a bad investment.

I was offered $30K trade for my 2010, considering I bought it for $37K when Acura had $3000 dealer money on them two years ago. $7K to drive that car for two years....where do I sign again?

As to ugly factor...agree 100%. Not a good looking car.
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  #35  
Old 09-30-2011, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kssod View Post
Still considering a 535xi as replacement for my RL. Thought it would be interesting to hear from owners their thought on BMW "uniqueness" and problems.

3) gear selector: up for R, push button for park, up for downshift in sport mode, park button on top can accidentally be pressed while at speed (lockout?) shifter totally electric so unable to put in N if loose power
I think all of your uniqueness questions were answered except #3. If you lose power, the transmission may end up in park. There is no way to get out of park without using a jumper battery. The earlier F10s had a mechanical "key" to unlock the transmission the later versions do not. However, if you lose electrical power you are going to need a jumper battery anyway or a tow on a car carrier. The only downside is that you won't be able to push your car to the side of the road until help arrives. My E39 gave me a 3 minute warning before the battery died (that's after a one day warning when the alternator died) and I would guess the F10 would do at least the same unless there was a catastrophic electrical problem. See below for my answer to your issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 535Stu View Post
After ordering a BMW in July and looked to trade my 2010 TL, I opted out after reading hours and hours of posts on this forum. Bottom line, I love the looks of this car and still want one today. However, I drive 25k miles per year and don't have time for dealer visits and issues. Sure, some here have no issues. Others do. I cannot take that risk. But, that is me. I am sticking with Acura for now. Maybe will try again in a year or two.
From my personal experience if you avoid the 19" AWD tires you will be happy with your F10. I have 6000 miles and no problems other than seven 19" Goodyear LS2 replacements. My Acura was at the dealer once in that time period for warranty repairs, but that is unusual. I have to change the oil every 7500 miles in my Acura and it's twice that in the BMW so you'll have approximately two fewer trips a year for service with the BMW. Other than that, the Consumer Reports statistics say you will always have a better reliability experience with the Acura. Again, from my experience, you will also have many less smiles with the Acura.

There is always a trade-off. I'd bite the bullet and go for the BMW without 19" tires if I were you.
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  #36  
Old 09-30-2011, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by radarguy View Post
from my personal experience if you avoid the 19" awd tires you will be happy with your f10. Other than that, the consumer reports statistics say you will always have a better reliability experience with the acura. Again, from my experience, you will also have many less smiles with the acura.

There is always a trade-off. I'd bite the bullet and go for the bmw without 19" tires if i were you.
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  #37  
Old 09-30-2011, 11:24 AM
LaxCoach LaxCoach is offline
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Originally Posted by Bimmer3oi View Post
i'm in a similar position as the OP...i'm looking to buy a car some time between now and next spring, and am interested in the 535i...but reading about the issues with "tip-in" and the RFTs, as well as other smaller problems/inconveniences, scares me

maybe the 2012s will have less issues?

i'm also waiting on driving reviews of the all-new Lexus GS 350 to see if it will be as "sporty" as advertised
I've had my 535i for less than a month. Upgraded from a 2006 TL and simply could not be happier. The 'Tip-in' bothered me at first as I thought there was something wrong with the car. After playing around some (and reading a lot of the posts here ) I found that the lag completely disappears in Sport mode as well as having significantly different clutch points. Now, mind you, it is *far* less friendly to gas mileage in DS mode, but the performance is surprisingly different over normal mode.

No issues with my tires - I opted to go for the 18's and will probably upgrade them over the coming months. Everything else in the car has been rock solid.
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  #38  
Old 09-30-2011, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by markl53 View Post
What features are you talking about that were so fantastic? Engine/chassis? Nav? Audio system? Certainly not the climate control system. Comfort?
The RL was super advanced when I bought mine in 2005, nobody else had all the bells and whistles the RL offered including real time traffic re-routing. In 2005 the TL was a much smaller car that did not have many of the features offered by the RL. The RL was the very first vehicle that offered SH-AWD (torque vectoring to the rear wheels) that made it handle great. I got mine for $43K (sticker was $49K+) which was a bargain at the time compared with BMW and Mercedes.

The Navigation and voice command systems were far superior to what I have now. The Nav never made odd choices and detours and it was easy to give, and always understood the voice commands for many functions. The Audio System in the RL was much better than what I have now in terms of sound but I could not use a thumb drive to store all my music like I can now. The climate control system was just terrific in my RL - it was set and forget and the A/C was cooler than what I have now.
Comfort? Yes, it was more comfortable for me to get in and out of and to see out of it. I also liked the seating position much better with a lower cowl.
Interior ambience and instrument lighting was also nicer in the RL. I liked the blue hue all around me including the footwells and it just looked better to me than the old fashioned amber color I have now.

Don't get me wrong, I love my 550i and I don't post this to start a debate on RL vs F10 . . . but you asked
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  #39  
Old 09-30-2011, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by bodonx View Post
Most of feature issues have solutions after a month of ownership.

Central lock is for your own car security.

I came from Honda/Acura family and loved them. When I started owning BMW, I would not go back. It's totally different level of driving experience and quality.

I never any major reliability issues with my BMW.
I too came from the Acura family, owned the RL before making the mistake of stopping into the local BMW dealership to test drive an E60 back in 2007. My RL was a new 2006. The rest is history. That very night traded in my RL and drove out with a new 2008 550i. On my second 550i - F10 and can't imagine going back to an Acura though I loved the technology and reliability.
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  #40  
Old 09-30-2011, 05:43 PM
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Very interesting to see so many Acura owners who moved over to BMW. No doubt, it is the next stepping stone. That is why I was on the 5 yard line of purchasing one myself.

Yeah, mine was ordered with the 19 inch tires BEFORE I knew about the issues. The dealer refused to swap the tires and pretty much told me I was nuts if I did not drop the $1,000 for the tire/wheel warranty. That upset me....why must I buy this warranty because of a defect and not because of my driving habits? My ordered car sat on their lot for about 5 days, then it sold. I gotta admit, I was very sad AND very angry.

Nevertheless, I am still reading this forum and the day will come when I buy a BMW. Just looking for some improvement in the reliability arena.

As to technology, the Acura actually shows live radar on my Nav screen with the XM weather function, and XM traffic is a great function too with the red/yellow/green lines along with accidents, construction, and road closures. I don't think that is offered on the BMW.
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  #41  
Old 09-30-2011, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by 535Stu View Post
As to technology, the Acura actually shows live radar on my Nav screen with the XM weather function, and XM traffic is a great function too with the red/yellow/green lines along with accidents, construction, and road closures. I don't think that is offered on the BMW.
Do you want a driver's car or a whiz-bang computer? My BMW nav shows real-time traffic conditions that is sufficient for my needs. I care more about how the car drives and handles than how good the Nav system is. I've said this before, a car is for driving. It's like my Nikon DSLR's. All these new gen people want an SLR to do every function under the sun. I want it to capture the images I need. I don't want it to do video, I don't want an electronic viewfinder -- I want a solid, well performing camera. I think in general we look for too much auxiliary function in our cars as well. I know it's not as cut and dried as this, many factors go into deciding what car to buy. If you want the slickest, highest technology possible, then maybe BMW is not the car for you. If you want an exceedingly well engineered, well balanced, driver oriented vehicle, BMW is definitely one to consider.
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  #42  
Old 09-30-2011, 08:59 PM
soulunderdog soulunderdog is offline
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It is interesting that the TL discussion is so prevalent on this forum. The TL is considered by most to be entry level luxury sedan that should compare with Lexus ES, Audi A4, BMW 3 series, MB C-Class, etc. If a comparison is made should be with the RL. Unfortunately Acura like Infinity (Q45) can't seem to design and engineer a vehicle that truly competes with the other mid size luxury brands. I wouldn't be surprised if the RL didn't disappear like the Q45 did several years ago. BTW- I had a 2004 TL and traded up to a 2006 Lexus GS 300 ( that we still own).
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  #43  
Old 09-30-2011, 11:02 PM
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I am another Acura convert, having had an 01 Cl and then an 04 TL A-Spec for six years before upgrading to the 550i last September. The TL and 5 series really aren't in the same class at all in terms of quality and performance, however there is also a big difference in price as well. I was always happy with my Acuras but after having had the 550i for a year now I have had no regrets paying the extra premium for the 550i. By the way, my TL wasn't exactly trouble free as I had a faulty yaw rate sensor at 60,000 miles that caused the VSA system to randomly engage for no apparent reason causing the right front tire to basically lock up for a split second which in turn jerked the car hard to the right. Happened to me several times, one time driving on the freeway at 75 mph going in a straight line. It was scary stuff, luckily I didn't get in an accident. I decided to get rid of the car soon after (and after a $1,000 repair bill). So don't believe Acuras are 100% reliable and trouble free.

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  #44  
Old 10-01-2011, 03:56 AM
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Very interesting that there are so many Acura to BMW converts. I wonder if this is an outcome of Acura maybe knowingly or unknowingly being a "poor mans BMW"?

Acura were on a role back in the day. The Integra was really hot with the youngins, and the last gen TL was a very nice and good car.

What got them to where they're at (slick, clean, Japanese Luxury/Sports cars) completely out the window for boxy, lifeless, hideously designed and ornamented American-esque designs.

I think Acura probably has the most boring lineup right now. You need to take Crystal Meth if you want to look at an RL for too long, the TL looks like something that should have always stayed inside and never shown that face, and the MDX, etc. are just incredibly conservatively dull products that scream "appliance only".

Maybe they got a new CEO some years ago or something, because their game plan just changed.
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  #45  
Old 10-01-2011, 08:42 AM
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I agree. The acuras are not pretty. I love the look of the 5. In my situation, reliability outweighs everything else due to my daily commute, my busy lifestyle, etc. No time to spend swapping out tires and updating software. I will live with the appliance for now.
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  #46  
Old 10-01-2011, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by 535Stu View Post
I agree. The acuras are not pretty. I love the look of the 5. In my situation, reliability outweighs everything else due to my daily commute, my busy lifestyle, etc. No time to spend swapping out tires and updating software. I will live with the appliance for now.
My friend who owns an E60 BMW and I were talking about Japanese cars versus German. While we both agreed the Japanese cars were a bit cookie cutter. He said something that I though summed it up pretty well.
"In the real world, functional and boring will always trump cool and broken."
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  #47  
Old 10-01-2011, 09:16 AM
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My last Acura was a 2000 TL.

Bought it from an out of town dealer and never crossed the threshold of that or any other Acura dealer for service in 80,000 miles or so.

Now I have many new friends like my CA Scott at the BMW dealership and Jim and George at the indy shop. Great guys really that I would have never gotten to know so well had I stayed with Acura
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  #48  
Old 10-01-2011, 09:27 AM
soulunderdog soulunderdog is offline
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Originally Posted by laser View Post
My last Acura was a 2000 TL.

Bought it from an out of town dealer and never crossed the threshold of that or any other Acura dealer for service in 80,000 miles or so.

Now I have many new friends like my CA Scott at the BMW dealership and Jim and George at the indy shop. Great guys really that I would have never gotten to know so well had I stayed with Acura
Now that's funny and I certainly hope I have no such friends in my future...
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  #49  
Old 10-01-2011, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K-A View Post
Very interesting that there are so many Acura to BMW converts. I wonder if this is an outcome of Acura maybe knowingly or unknowingly being a "poor mans BMW"?
I've been starting to notice an Acura "attitude", and not necessarily on this forum. I have a friend who had a couple of TL's, now an RL. He thinks BMW's are POS'es and he really thinks Acura is far superior. Of course he's never driven a BMW, so it's all in his mind . The funny thing is, he has some some financial difficulties now (recent divorce, house payments, etc.), but when he heard I was planning to move to a 535i from my '08 335i, he traded is 1.5 year old TL for an RL, a couple of months before my 5 was delivered. The RL was actually an older platform than his '09 TL and lacked some tech enhancements, but he had to have that RL.
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2014 535i Individual | Azurite Black/Amaro Brown Merino | Premium | Cold | PDC | Rear Camera | Anthracite Hdr
Prior: 2011 535i AT | Black Sapphire/Cinnamon | Premium | Heated Sts | Nav | Sirius | Anthracite Hdr & Trim
Prior: 2008 335i 6MT Sedan | Black Sapphire/Terra Leather | Premium | Cold | CA | OEM Alarm
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Last edited by markl53; 10-01-2011 at 10:51 AM.
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  #50  
Old 10-01-2011, 11:20 AM
Bimmer3oi Bimmer3oi is offline
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Location: Sugar Land, TX
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 110
Mein Auto: '14 F30 335i M-Sport (ED)
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaxCoach View Post
I've had my 535i for less than a month....The 'Tip-in' bothered me at first as I thought there was something wrong with the car...I found that the lag completely disappears in Sport mode as well as having significantly different clutch point...
so you paid that much for a car, and you're just going to live with the "tip-in" ?!?!

using Sport mode may be a workaraound, but i'd still expect the car to work properly in ALL modes


Quote:
Originally Posted by TJPark01 View Post
"In the real world, functional and boring will always trump cool and broken."
what he said
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