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Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > E39 (1997 - 2003)

E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

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  #1  
Old 09-28-2011, 09:05 PM
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Just curious: Does the ORDER of pcodes listed in an OBDII scanner actually matter?

I doubt it does matter ... but curiosity hit me ...

After replacing my gas cap (which has been off for months as a result of an experiment for the team) and clearing my SES (using the el cheapo Autel MaxiScan $22 scanner), I received 9 pending codes on my first trip (with concurrent low-idle cold-engine barely discernible misfiring).

While I'll wait a few days to see if any of these end up triggering the SES light, I'm curious about the order the Pcodes were output by the scanner.

Here is the order of the nine pending codes (along with the corresponding description as per this BMW-PCodes thread):
  1. P0306,BMW 243, Cylinder 6 Misfire Detected
  2. P1346,BMW 240, Misfire During Start Cylinder 3
  3. P1343,BMW 238, Misfire Cylinder 1 with Fuel Cut-Off
  4. P1083,BMW 202, Fuel Control Limit Mixture Too Lean (Bank 1 Sensor 1)
  5. P1085,BMW 203, Fuel Control Limit Mixture Too Lean (Bank 2 Sensor 1)
  6. P1349,BMW 241, Misfire Cylinder 4 with Fuel Cut-Off
  7. P1351,BMW 242, Misfire Cylinder 5 with Fuel Cut-Off
  8. P0171,BMW 227, System Too Lean (Bank 1)
  9. P0174,BMW 228, System Too Lean (Bank 2)
Notice, while the order isn't numerical, it 'is' grouped.

Just curious: Does the order presented by the scanner mean anything at all?

Last edited by bluebee; 09-29-2011 at 01:39 PM.
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  #2  
Old 09-29-2011, 09:42 AM
edjack edjack is offline
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It's probably the order in which the codes were read out: LIFO?

Grouping probably indicated that the codes were set together in time.
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Last edited by edjack; 09-29-2011 at 09:43 AM.
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  #3  
Old 09-29-2011, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edjack View Post
Grouping probably indicated that the codes were set together in time.
That might be it.

There's 'something' to the grouping, whether it's the order the modules are read, or the time the code was set; but it's not purely numerical.

Today, a day later, I now have 3 Pcodes and 1 pending code (where the pending code was listed last):
  1. SES: P1083,BMW 202, Fuel Control Limit Mixture Too Lean (Bank 1 Sensor 1)
  2. SES: P1085,BMW 203, Fuel Control Limit Mixture Too Lean (Bank 2 Sensor 1)
  3. SES: P0174,BMW 228, System Too Lean (Bank 2)
  4. PENDING: P0171,BMW 227, System Too Lean (Bank 1)
Notice the SES-set P0174 code switched order with the P0171 pending code when it moved from pending to setting the SES.
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  #4  
Old 09-29-2011, 12:58 PM
Quick99Si Quick99Si is offline
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They're probably grouped, whether by the DME or the scanner, in this order:
http://www.obd-codes.com/faq/obd2-codes-explained.php
http://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/bmw/

And then again sorted within each family of codes.

I came here hoping it was a discussion about the high OBC built-in error code readout.
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  #5  
Old 09-29-2011, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick99Si View Post
I came here hoping it was a discussion about the high OBC built-in error code readout.
Ooops.

I just changed the title from:
- Just curious: Does the ORDER of pcodes listed in an OBC scanner actually matter?
TO:
- Just curious: Does the ORDER of pcodes listed in an OBDII scanner actually matter?

I'll look at the grouping you referred to.
Meanwhile, the codes morphed into the following, in this order:


SET:
  1. P1083,BMW 202, Fuel Control Limit Mixture Too Lean (Bank 1 Sensor 1)
  2. P1085,BMW 203, Fuel Control Limit Mixture Too Lean (Bank 2 Sensor 1)
  3. P0171,BMW 227, System Too Lean (Bank 1)
  4. P0174,BMW 228, System Too Lean (Bank 2)
PENDING:
  1. P1346,BMW 240, Misfire During Start Cylinder 3
  2. P1343,BMW 238, Misfire Cylinder 1 with Fuel Cut-Off
  3. P1349,BMW 241, Misfire Cylinder 4 with Fuel Cut-Off
  4. P1351,BMW 242, Misfire Cylinder 5 with Fuel Cut-Off
Funny, I didn't 'feel' the fuel shut off.
Anyway, since I had removed & re-installed the DISA valve after reading those codes, I erased them and went for a five mile drive (car was already warm when I started).

The only code that showed up in that 5-mile drive was a pending:
  • P0171,BMW 227, System Too Lean (Bank 1)
I'll read the referenced links to see if there's information in the order. In addition, I might try harder to get a PC going that can become the diagnostic PC with INPA/EDIABAS/NCS/DIS/PROGMAN, etc.

Last edited by bluebee; 09-29-2011 at 05:13 PM.
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  #6  
Old 10-04-2011, 11:18 PM
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I'm going to try to keep a faithful log of the codes, just in case there is value in the order and occurrence.

For example, after re-clearing the codes, and driving for a couple of days, the following were set in this order:

NOTE: Items in red are new to this sequence.

Also note the P0313 code both set & pending at the same time (which is weird); however also note that P0313 has multiple BMW codes associated with it (i.e., BMW 238, 239, 240, 241, 242, & 243), some of which, e.g., BMW 243, have multiple P-Codes associated in return (e.g., P0313 and P1353 can both be represented by BMW 243).
  • P0313 DTC SET
    • BMW 238 to BMW 243 inclusive, Misfire Detected with Low Fuel
  • P1085 DTC SET
    • BMW 203, Fuel Control Limit Mixture Too Lean (Bank 2 Sensor 1)
  • P0171 DTC SET
    • BMW 227, System Too Lean (Bank 1)
  • P0174 DTC SET
    • BMW 228, System Too Lean (Bank 2)
  • P0313 PENDING
    • BMW 238 to BMW 243 inclusive, Misfire Detected with Low Fuel
  • P1353 PENDING
    • BMW 243, Misfire Cylinder 6 with Fuel Cut-Off
  • P1346 PENDING
    • BMW 240, Misfire During Start Cylinder 3
  • P1343 PENDING
    • BMW 238, Misfire Cylinder 1 with Fuel Cut-Off
  • P1083 PENDING
    • BMW 202, Fuel Control Limit Mixture Too Lean (Bank 1 Sensor 1)
  • P1351 PENDING
    • BMW 242, Misfire Cylinder 5 with Fuel Cut-Off
Then, after clearing and driving for a day or two, they were, in this order:
  • P1083 DTC SET
    • BMW 202, Fuel Control Limit Mixture Too Lean (Bank 1 Sensor 1)
  • P1085 DTC SET
    • BMW 203, Fuel Control Limit Mixture Too Lean (Bank 2 Sensor 1)
  • P0171 DTC SET
    • BMW 227, System Too Lean (Bank 1)
  • P0174 PENDING
    • BMW 228, System Too Lean (Bank 2)
So, this evening, back at home, I cleared the codes, to start the logging analysis anew.

BTW, the car drives fine, as far as I can tell. There is often a very slight stumbling in the morning, after a cold start, and perhaps within the first five or ten minutes; but after an ignition restart, it idles as smooth as silk (or so it seems). Of course, I have a lot of debugging to do ... but ... for now, I'll concentrate on logging the codes to see what pops up and in what order.

Last edited by bluebee; 10-04-2011 at 11:25 PM.
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  #7  
Old 10-04-2011, 11:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick99Si View Post
They're probably grouped, whether by the DME or the scanner, in this order:
That was a valiant guess Quick99Si!

Here's the chart you referred to:


With respect to the order, the following is becoming obvious:
  1. Clearly pending codes are shown AFTER 'thrown' codes ...
  2. Less clearly, some related P-codes seem to be grouped together (e.g., P0171 with P0174, or P1083 with P1085)
  3. However, neither the second digit nor the third digit seems to consistently be in sequence
It 'could' be that this second-digit/third-digit sequence is 'within' another sequence (e.g., by module); but I don't have enough data to support that hypothesis just yet.
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  #8  
Old 10-04-2011, 11:39 PM
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If it wasn't obvious, looking only at the 'third digit', we see only 3, 0, 1 (mostly, but not always in that order) showing up.

According to the charts, that comprises the following systems:
  • PX3XX === 3 === Ignition or Misfire
  • PX0XX === 0 === SAE Reserved
  • PX1XX === 1 === Emissions Management (Fuel or Air)
I realize these results are not surprising ... but, in the interest of gleaning information from the order, I present what we see.
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Old 10-05-2011, 04:31 PM
NNY528i NNY528i is offline
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you might want to look for a vacuum leak or a damaged or cracked boot between the TB and the MAF. that is the most common source of intermittent leans, after that is fuel filter, fuel pump or failing injectors,(however the random nature of the misfires does not support the injector issues) I would also check the fuel rail pressure could be a FPR issue though I think that might be in the pump.
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Old 10-05-2011, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NNY528i View Post
vacuum leak or a damaged or cracked boot between the TB and the MAF.
Thanks for the debugging hint. I haven't actually 'begun' to debug; but when I do, I will look there.

Besides following the misfire diagnostic tree:
- How to diagnose a typical BMW E39 engine misfire (1)

What I 'probably' should do is buy a length of the variously sized vacuum hoses and replace them all, en masse.

To that end, I'll begin a quest to ascertain the sum totals of the finite sizes for all vacuum hoses over in this thread:
- How to locate & replace all the vacuum hoses in the E39 engine bay (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NNY528i View Post
after that is fuel filter, fuel pump or failing injectors
I plan on renting the $150 Autozone fuel system tester tool and figuring out how to use it to test my fuel system:
- How do I test fuel pressure?



Meanwhile, the diagnostic trouble codes that appear most frequently (and which are the current codes today), are as follows:
  • P0171, BMW 227, System Too Lean (Bank 1)
  • P0174, BMW 228, System Too Lean (Bank 2
  • P1083, BMW 202, Fuel Control Limit Mixture Too Lean (Bank 1 Sensor 1)
  • P1085, BMW 203, Fuel Control Limit Mixture Too Lean (Bank 2 Sensor 1)

Last edited by bluebee; 10-05-2011 at 08:40 PM.
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Old 10-12-2011, 01:18 AM
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For the record, the DTC & pending code order has been rather consistent.

I drove for a few days, without clearing the codes, and this is what I read two days ago, in this order:

Note that some codes (e.g., P0313) are both thrown & pending:
  • DTC:
    • P0313 BMW 238 to BMW 243 inclusive, Misfire Detected with Low Fuel
    • P0300 BMW 62 Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
    • P1353 BMW 243, Misfire Cylinder 6 with Fuel Cut-Off
    • P1083 BMW 202, Fuel Control Limit Mixture Too Lean (Bank 1 Sensor 1)
    • P1085 BMW 203, Fuel Control Limit Mixture Too Lean (Bank 2 Sensor 1)
    • P1351 BMW 242, Misfire Cylinder 5 with Fuel Cut-Off
    • P0171 BMW 227, System Too Lean (Bank 1)
    • P0174 BMW 228, System Too Lean (Bank 2)
  • PENDING:
    • P0313 BMW 238 to BMW 243 inclusive, Misfire Detected with Low Fuel
    • P0300 BMW 62 Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
After clearing the codes, and driving for a while, the following occurred in this order yesterday:
  • DTC:
    • P0171 BMW 227, System Too Lean (Bank 1)
    • P0174 BMW 228, System Too Lean (Bank 2)
  • PENDING
    • P1083 BMW 202, Fuel Control Limit Mixture Too Lean (Bank 1 Sensor 1)
    • P1085 BMW 203, Fuel Control Limit Mixture Too Lean (Bank 2 Sensor 1)
Again, after clearing them and driving for about twenty miles, the following occurred today, in this order:
  • DTC:
    • P0313 BMW 238 to BMW 243 inclusive, Misfire Detected with Low Fuel
    • P1085 BMW 203, Fuel Control Limit Mixture Too Lean (Bank 2 Sensor 1)
  • PENDING:
    • P0313 BMW 238 to BMW 243 inclusive, Misfire Detected with Low Fuel
    • P1083 BMW 202, Fuel Control Limit Mixture Too Lean (Bank 1 Sensor 1)
    • P0171 BMW 227, System Too Lean (Bank 1)
    • P0174 BMW 228, System Too Lean (Bank 2)
Clearing yet again, and driving for a dozen additional miles, I found, in this order when I shut the engine down to look for vacuum leaks:
  • DTC
    • P0313 BMW 238 to BMW 243 inclusive, Misfire Detected with Low Fuel
    • P1085 BMW 203, Fuel Control Limit Mixture Too Lean (Bank 2 Sensor 1)
    • P0171 BMW 227, System Too Lean (Bank 1)
    • P0174 BMW 228, System Too Lean (Bank 2)
  • PENDING
    • P0313 BMW 238 to BMW 243 inclusive, Misfire Detected with Low Fuel
    • P1083 BMW 202, Fuel Control Limit Mixture Too Lean (Bank 1 Sensor 1)
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Old 10-13-2011, 10:47 AM
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Not surprisingly, when I tested the DISA valve today:
- Strange results from a simple test of the M54 DISA valve today

I got a pending DISA-related code:
  • P1512 BMW 124 DISA (Differentiated Intake Manifold) Control Circuit Signal Low
But, after clearing that, and replacing the front hose #4 of the SAS valve & the two hoses of the F connector & the SAS vacuum end-cap #9 as described here:
- M54 vacuum hoses ... what diameter ... what brand ... what material ... what length?

After replacing & fixing 5 hoses, the codes then morphed to the following, in order:
  • SET:
    • P0313 BMW 238 to BMW 243 inclusive, Misfire Detected with Low Fuel
    • P0171 BMW 227, System Too Lean (Bank 1)
    • P0174 BMW 228, System Too Lean (Bank 2)
  • PENDING:
    • P0313 BMW 238 to BMW 243 inclusive, Misfire Detected with Low Fuel
    • P1346 BMW 240, Misfire During Start Cylinder 3
    • P1343 BMW 238, Misfire Cylinder 1 with Fuel Cut-Off
    • P1083 BMW 202, Fuel Control Limit Mixture Too Lean (Bank 1 Sensor 1)
    • P1085 BMW 203, Fuel Control Limit Mixture Too Lean (Bank 2 Sensor 1)
    • P1351 BMW 242, Misfire Cylinder 5 with Fuel Cut-Off
I cleared these & will keep an eye on what happens next.
(Meanwhile I've rented the fuel system test tool from Autozone).

Last edited by bluebee; 10-13-2011 at 10:49 AM.
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Old 10-22-2011, 10:40 AM
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This is weird ... but ... after replacing a few (not all) of the vacuum hoses (just the one SAS valve hose, plus the two F-connector hoses) and electrical taping over what looks like a crack in the bottom section of the intake boot hose, the quickness, the number, and the variety of lean condition misfire codes diminished greatly.

When I startedthe car, yesterday it ran fine, until, at some point within the first twenty minutes (or so), it 'threw' two pending codes (in this order):
  • SET:
    • none
  • PENDING:
    • P0171 BMW 227, System Too Lean (Bank 1)
    • P0174 BMW 228, System Too Lean (Bank 2)
Then, during my daily drive around town yesterday (about 60 miles in varying conditions), it finally threw a "full" code triggering the SES light.

The subsequent codes read (in this order):
  • SET:
    • P0171, BMW 227, System Too Lean (Bank 1)
  • PENDING:
    • P1353, BMW 243, Misfire Cylinder 6 with Fuel Cut-Off
    • P1349, BMW 241, Misfire Cylinder 4 with Fuel Cut-Off
    • P1351, BMW 242, Misfire Cylinder 5 with Fuel Cut-Off
BTW, I always simply 'assumed' the first three cylinders in front were bank 1 while the last three in the rear were bank 2; but this is seemingly inconsistent with the results above which implies the first bank is lean but the second bank is misfiring.

Last edited by bluebee; 10-22-2011 at 10:43 AM.
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Old 11-09-2011, 09:29 AM
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UPDATE:

I've been kind'a ignoring the actual codes lately, as I researched all the places the vacuum could be leaking and fuel could be starving.

But, today I decided to check, after weeks of not checking, and here, for the record, is what I have (in this order):
  • SET:
    • P0313 BMW 238 to BMW 243 inclusive, Misfire Detected with Low Fuel
    • P0300 BMW 62 Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
    • P1083 BMW 202, Fuel Control Limit Mixture Too Lean (Bank 1 Sensor 1)
    • P1085 BMW 203, Fuel Control Limit Mixture Too Lean (Bank 2 Sensor 1)
    • P1349 BMW 241, Misfire Cylinder 4 with Fuel Cut-Off
    • P1351 BMW 242, Misfire Cylinder 5 with Fuel Cut-Off
    • P0171 BMW 227, System Too Lean (Bank 1)
    • P0174 BMW 228, System Too Lean (Bank 2)
  • PENDING:
    • P0313 BMW 238 to BMW 243 inclusive, Misfire Detected with Low Fuel
    • P0300 BMW 62 Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
I cleared them, and will see what pops up first again.

Given:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve530 View Post
Bank 2 is cylinder 4, 5, and 6. Those are the rearmost 3 cylinders.
Quote:
Originally Posted by edjack View Post
Bank 2 sensor 1 is the pre-cat O2 sensor for the rear 3 cylinders.
I'm going to look up why one oxygen sensor reports on both the front bank1 and the rear bank2 sets of cylinders (I had initially thought there were two oxygen sensors, pre cat).

Last edited by bluebee; 11-09-2011 at 09:47 AM.
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  #15  
Old 11-09-2011, 10:10 AM
bobdmac bobdmac is offline
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Bluebee, I think each bank has two sensors, judging by this diagram:

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Old 11-09-2011, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobdmac View Post
each bank has two sensors
Now that's interesting.

I had always figured there were two pre-cat and two post-cat oxygen sensors.

But, that diagram appears to show four pre-cat oxygen sensors (two on each bank, the front three being bank one).

I'll try to figure out which is 'sensor 1' out of those two sensors ... and why it's only 'sensor 1' that reports lean conditions in my case.

The four (something) sensors appear to be in this diagram:
How do I know 'which' of these sensors is the one indicated by "bank #1 sensor #1" and "bank #2 sensor #1)?


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Last edited by bluebee; 11-09-2011 at 03:58 PM.
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Old 11-09-2011, 06:22 PM
Steve530 Steve530 is offline
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There are only 4 sensors - 2 pre-cat, 2-post-cat. The regulating sensor is read by the ECU to adjust the fuel injected into the engine, The monitoring sensor monitors catalytic converter performance. The diagram does not identify the catalyst, but it is the bulge downstream of where the there header pipes join. It is part of the exhaust manifold assembly. Check the diagram under engine, exhaust manifold with catalyst.
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  #18  
Old 11-10-2011, 06:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve530 View Post
There are only 4 sensors - 2 pre-cat, 2-post-cat
Ah, that simple clarification explains for me which is the sensor 1 of banks 1 and 2.

Thanks for taking the time & courtesy to edify.

Here is my picture edited by you and then cleaned up by me so that others will benefit from the information in the future, long after we're gone.

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Old 11-12-2011, 02:25 PM
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This post today is the first suggestion that indicates that the order 'does' matter!
- E39 (1997 - 2003) > $1,000 later, SES still on dont know what to do..

Quote:
Originally Posted by kraze1019 View Post
Yes it does matter because one problem may cause another which could be eliminated by solving the first.. example if the engine is misfiring and u have a bad 02 sensor, the 02 sensor code might come up first and fixing it could get rid of the misfires so u start from top to bottom
And, this has a good description of the P0171 & P0174 error codes:
- E39 (1997 - 2003) > Not sure if this is in the best of links

Last edited by bluebee; 11-26-2011 at 11:25 AM.
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Old 06-02-2012, 11:29 PM
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I haven't posted in a while so I apologize that I should have updated this thread looong ago.

The causes of the huge plethora of lean-condition codes were only found when I built a smoke machine:
- How to make your own smoke machine (1)

I ended up finding smoke pouring out of the lower CCV hose and out of the upper elbow connected to the ICV valve.




Replacing those and running the FTP, wiped out the DTCs!
- How to better understand the key EPA federal test procedure (FTP) concept of the BMW SES "drive cycle" (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
After fixing a dozen lean-condition misfire codes, here are my latest California smog emissions test results at an inspection-only station (the California government is so badly managed that they make you pay more every few years for your inspection just so they can watch over their inspection stations instead of actually watching over their inspection stations).



Comparing old, to new (same vehicle) over time ...
--------------------------------------
- Northern California (bluebee), 2002 525i, 87 AKI (just after rebuilding the ABS control module)
- Northern California (bluebee), 2002 525i, 91 AKI (after clearing P0500 code & driving for two weeks)
- Northern California (bluebee), 2002 525i, 87 AKI (two years later)
--------------------------------------
HYDROCARBONS:
- 15mph (2400 rpm): bluebee: 0 ppm (limit = 52 ppm, avg = 4 ppm), 87AKI, PASS
- 15mph (2445 rpm): bluebee: 9 ppm (limit = 52 ppm, avg = 4 ppm), 91AKI (worse than 87AKI), PASS
- 15mph (1914 rpm): bluebee: 2 ppm (limit = 51 ppm, avg = 4 ppm), test results two years later, PASS

- 25mph (2400 rpm): bluebee: 0 ppm (limit = 36 ppm, avg = 4 ppm), 87AKI, PASS
- 25mph (2393 rpm): bluebee: 2 ppm (limit = 36 ppm, avg = 4 ppm), 91AKI (worse than 87AKI), PASS
- 25mph (1331 rpm): bluebee: 2 ppm (limit = 35 ppm, avg = 4 ppm), test results two years later, PASS
--------------------------------------
Carbon Monoxide:
- 15mph (2400 rpm): bluebee: 0.00% (limit = 0.49%, avg = 0.01%), 87AKI, PASS
- 15mph (2445 rpm): bluebee: 0.01% (limit = 0.49%, avg = 0.01%), 97AKI (worse than 87AKI), PASS
- 15mph (1914 rpm): bluebee: 0.01% (limit = 0.48%, avg = 0.01%), test results two years later, PASS

- 25mph (2400 rpm): bluebee: 0.00% (limit = 0.46%, avg = 0.01%), 87AKI, PASS
- 25mph (2393 rpm): bluebee: 0.01% (limit = 0.46%, avg = 0.01%), 97AKI (worse than 87AKI), PASS
- 25mph (1331 rpm): bluebee: 0.01% (limit = 0.46%, avg = 0.01%), test results two years later, PASS
--------------------------------------
Nitrogen Oxides:
- 15mph (2400 rpm): bluebee: 21 ppm (limit = 424 ppm, avg = 16 ppm), 87AKI, PASS
- 15mph (2445 rpm): bluebee: 53 ppm (limit = 424 ppm, avg = 16 ppm), 91AKI (worse than 87AKI), PASS
- 15mph (1914 rpm): bluebee: 56 ppm (limit = 419 ppm, avg = 27 ppm), test results two years later, PASS

- 25mph (2400 rpm): bluebee: 25 ppm (limit = 711 ppm, avg = 18 ppm), 87AKI, PASS
- 25mph (2393 rpm): bluebee: 63 ppm (limit = 711 ppm, avg = 18 ppm), 91AKI (worse than 87AKI), PASS
- 25mph (1331 rpm): bluebee: 285 ppm (limit = 706 ppm, avg = 26 ppm), test results two years later, PASS
--------------------------------------
Carbon Dioxide:
- 15mph (2400 rpm): bluebee: 15.0% (no limit provided), 87AKI
- 15mph (2445 rpm): bluebee: 15.1% (no limit provided), 91AKI (worse than 87AKI)
- 15mph (1914 rpm): bluebee: 14.8% (no limit provided), test results two years later

- 25mph (2400 rpm): bluebee: 15.0% (no limit provided), 87AKI
- 25mph (2393 rpm): bluebee: 15.1% (no limit provided), 91AKI (worse than 87AKI)
- 25mph (1331 rpm): bluebee: 14.9% (no limit provided), test results two years later
--------------------------------------
Oxygen:
- 15mph (2400 rpm): bluebee: 0.0% (no limit provided), 87AKI
- 15mph (2445 rpm): bluebee: 0.0% (no limit provided), 91AKI
- 15mph (1914 rpm): bluebee: 0.0% (no limit provided), test results two years later

- 25mph (2400 rpm): bluebee: 0.0% (no limit provided), 87AKI
- 25mph (2393 rpm): bluebee: 0.0% (no limit provided), 91AKI
- 25mph (1331 rpm): bluebee: 0.0% (no limit provided), test results two years later
--------------------------------------

Interestingly, over the two years, only the nitrogen oxides jumped appreciably. But why?
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__________________
Each repair should invariably add to our knowledge base by the process of inexorable incrementalism.
Your job, in return, is to read the suggested threads, where the best people will always add value to those threads, either by pictures or by descriptions, so the next person with the same problem stands on your shoulders.
See also: E39 Bestlinks & How to easily find what you need

Last edited by bluebee; 06-19-2012 at 11:32 PM.
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  #21  
Old 12-09-2012, 05:16 PM
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bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 21,070
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 auto 130K
I had forgotten to update this thread, so I just wish to update the process I followed to resolve my lean condition misfire codes:
- Does the order of the misfire OBDII DTCs diagnostic trouble codes actually matter (1)

After identifying & replacing all the visible hoses I could:
- How to locate all problematic (between 1/8" & 9/32" ID) 3.5x1.8mm, 3.3x1.8mm & (between 17/64" & 9/32" ID) 7mm ID vacuum tubing (single material), vacuum hoses (multiple material), 3.3mm OD curved vacuum pipes (rigid tubes), 3.5mm & 7mm ID vacuum endcaps (closed end) & 7x3mm manifold o-rings (1) & 7.52X3.52mm and 9.2X2.8mm fuel injection o-rings (1) & gaskets (1) on the M54 engine & where in the USA to get new vacuum tubing & vacuum caps (1) & what SAE sizes to get for all the metric M54 engine vacuum tubes, hoses, pipes, and caps (1) & correcting the F-connector errors in the realoem diagrams (1) & finding the ends of hard-to-locate vacuum tubes (1) & sorely needed clarification on how the M54 CCV vacuum port works on the M52 CCV valve connection to the fuel pressure regulator connection (1) & how to make, borrow, or buy lean-condition misfire test tools to test for vacuum leaks & lean conditions (1) (2)

I STILL had multiple lean misfire codes, so I checked the fuel system:
- How does the E39 fuel injection work (1) & what are the most often recommended fuel pump & fuel filter brands (1) (2) & a DIY for replacing the fuel filter (0) (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) & a quick test for fuel pump operation (1) (2) and a DIY for replacing the fuel pump (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) & how to replace and service your BMW E39 fuel injectors (1) & details on replacing the 7.52X3.52mm and 9.2X2.8mm fuel injector o-rings (1) & the location of the K96 fuel pump relay (1) & where is the fuel system pressure test Schrader valve for the I6 (1) & where is the fuel pressure test point for the V8 (1) (2) (3) & where is the location of the fuel pump relay K96 (1) & cleaning (1) (2) & replacing the fuel sensor (1) & resolving blown fuses due to a stuck fuel filler door solenoid (1)

But I still had lean condition misfire codes; so I checked the DISA:
- Where to get a proper DISA valve repair kit (1) & how some jury-rig 'repair' a rattling DISA unit (1) (2) (3) & how the DISA valve operates (0) (1) (2) (3) (4) & how to test DISA operation (0) (1) (2) (3) (4) & a simple DIY to install an M54 DISA (1) & a nice DISA autopsy (1) (2) & a great DISA group buy (1) & how the disa valve o-ring fails (1) (2) & how it can reputedly cause all sorts of cold-engine rough idle problems (1) (2) & where to get just the DISA valve o-ring (1) & why you want to check the DISA at 100K miles or whenever the airbox is removed (1) (2) & why the DIfferenzierte SAuganlage ("Differential Air Intake") valve flap breaks (1), sometimes with parts sucked into the intake manifold (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) & a well documented example of how a broken DISA flap can ruin your engine (1) & yet another seemingly complex set of misfire codes reputedly traced to a broken DISA valve (1)

But I still had lean condition misfire codes; so I had to run a smoke test:
- How to make your own smoke machine (1)

The smoke test located a badly broken CCV lower vent hose:
- How to test the crankcase ventilation (aka CCV, CVV, PCV, CPV, & OSV) pressure regulating valve system (1)

Which also enabled me to unclog the wholly clogged dipstick tube:
- How to test, clean, & redesign the original BMW dipstick guide tube to prevent CCV vent clogs (1)

A subsequent smoke test located a bad lower boot connected to the throttle:
- How to diagnose a BMW E39 engine misfire (1)

With the final result being a passed California smog certificate:
- Results of California smog emissions tests (1)

EDIT: Anyone with these codes should check their lower CCV vent hose because the 90 elbow apparently overstresses the hose; the newly designed hose elbow is 45:
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__________________
Each repair should invariably add to our knowledge base by the process of inexorable incrementalism.
Your job, in return, is to read the suggested threads, where the best people will always add value to those threads, either by pictures or by descriptions, so the next person with the same problem stands on your shoulders.
See also: E39 Bestlinks & How to easily find what you need

Last edited by bluebee; 02-04-2013 at 07:44 AM.
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  #22  
Old 02-17-2013, 08:11 AM
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bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 21,070
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 auto 130K
I posted this just now in an E46 forum, but figured this off-the cuff (from memory) history of 'my' quest to locate the source of a small but persistent vacuum leak would be helpful to others:

Quote:
Originally Posted by 01e46sprt View Post
Bluebee.... By doing the smoke test did that reveal a leak in the intake boot ? I have p0171 code and did a smoke test didn't come up with any leak.
Here's my story ...

I started with this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
For the record, the DTC & pending code order has been rather consistent.

I drove for a few days, without clearing the codes, and this is what I read two days ago, in this order:

Note that some codes (e.g., P0313) are both thrown & pending:
  • DTC:
    • P0313 BMW 238 to BMW 243 inclusive, Misfire Detected with Low Fuel
    • P0300 BMW 62 Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
    • P1353 BMW 243, Misfire Cylinder 6 with Fuel Cut-Off
    • P1083 BMW 202, Fuel Control Limit Mixture Too Lean (Bank 1 Sensor 1)
    • P1085 BMW 203, Fuel Control Limit Mixture Too Lean (Bank 2 Sensor 1)
    • P1351 BMW 242, Misfire Cylinder 5 with Fuel Cut-Off
    • P0171 BMW 227, System Too Lean (Bank 1)
    • P0174 BMW 228, System Too Lean (Bank 2)
  • PENDING:
    • P0313 BMW 238 to BMW 243 inclusive, Misfire Detected with Low Fuel
    • P0300 BMW 62 Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
After clearing the codes, and driving for a while, the following occurred in this order yesterday:
  • DTC:
    • P0171 BMW 227, System Too Lean (Bank 1)
    • P0174 BMW 228, System Too Lean (Bank 2)
  • PENDING
    • P1083 BMW 202, Fuel Control Limit Mixture Too Lean (Bank 1 Sensor 1)
    • P1085 BMW 203, Fuel Control Limit Mixture Too Lean (Bank 2 Sensor 1)
Again, after clearing them and driving for about twenty miles, the following occurred today, in this order:
  • DTC:
    • P0313 BMW 238 to BMW 243 inclusive, Misfire Detected with Low Fuel
    • P1085 BMW 203, Fuel Control Limit Mixture Too Lean (Bank 2 Sensor 1)
  • PENDING:
    • P0313 BMW 238 to BMW 243 inclusive, Misfire Detected with Low Fuel
    • P1083 BMW 202, Fuel Control Limit Mixture Too Lean (Bank 1 Sensor 1)
    • P0171 BMW 227, System Too Lean (Bank 1)
    • P0174 BMW 228, System Too Lean (Bank 2)
Clearing yet again, and driving for a dozen additional miles, I found, in this order when I shut the engine down to look for vacuum leaks:
  • DTC
    • P0313 BMW 238 to BMW 243 inclusive, Misfire Detected with Low Fuel
    • P1085 BMW 203, Fuel Control Limit Mixture Too Lean (Bank 2 Sensor 1)
    • P0171 BMW 227, System Too Lean (Bank 1)
    • P0174 BMW 228, System Too Lean (Bank 2)
  • PENDING
    • P0313 BMW 238 to BMW 243 inclusive, Misfire Detected with Low Fuel
    • P1083 BMW 202, Fuel Control Limit Mixture Too Lean (Bank 1 Sensor 1)
Given that ... it took me a year to find all the vacuum leaks (elapsed time) so I only ran the final smoke test in desperation to pass my smog inspection.

The first thing I did when I got the non-specific lean-condition codes was buy a scanner I could keep in my glovebox to keep track of pending codes:
Note: This screenshot below is probably of the fifth similar scanner I've bought because I love mine so much I give these away as gifts!


Knowing the BEST diagnostic tool of all is my eyes, the next thing I did was inspect all the vacuum hoses I could "see", and I ended up replacing all of them topside (e.g., the F-connector hoses and the SAP hoses and endcaps).

The endcaps are important, because they almost ALWAYS develop cracks, and, you should get metric ones to fit right (ask me how I know).



I don't think it was related, but I also found & replaced crumbly SAS hoses in the visual inspection process.


Then I tested the CCV, which, as you can imagine, is not as simple as it should be.


Then I tested the DISA, which, again, isn't as obvious as we'd like it to be.


Then I ran the classic carb spray trick, which, for an intermittent small vacuum leak, I find wholly useless, as I couldn't hear the engine change speeds - so that was a waste of time and cleanup effort.


I then borrowed the free Autozone fuel system tester for three months - but the fuel system was fine ...


(although I did learn where they hide the M54 Schrader valve).


Finally, I ran the smoke test, which found that the CCV hose connected to the oil dipstick was cracked in the classic place that it cracks open in all older M54 engines (before the newly redesigned hose came out) - and I replaced it with the newly designed hose.


In that process, I found my oil dipstick drain tube wholly clogged shut!


That's when I found the elbow cracks. Replacing the $25 elbow solved the final persistent vacuum leaks.

Then, I made sure I drove the California (aka Los Angeles 92) version of the FTP and doublechecked with the scanner that all registers were full.


And, finally, I took my bimmer for inspection (which, by law, had to be to an inspection-only station):


(and passed with flying colors).



So, in hindsight, the problem was that there were MULTIPLE causes for the vacuum leaks, some of which worsened over the year while I was diagnosing the problem.

My recommendation?
a) Run a professional smoke test ... or ...
b) Use that $150 to inspect & replace all the common culprits!

BTW, as you probably know by now, every repair by every user SHOULD result in added value to the database, so, these threads were just some of the indirect results of my quest to find the source of vacuum leaks.

- How to locate all problematic (between 1/8" & 9/32" ID) 3.5x1.8mm, 3.3x1.8mm & (between 17/64" & 9/32" ID) 7mm ID vacuum tubing (single material), vacuum hoses (multiple material), 3.3mm OD curved vacuum pipes (rigid tubes), 3.5mm & 7mm ID vacuum endcaps (closed end) & 7x3mm manifold o-rings (1) & 7.52X3.52mm and 9.2X2.8mm fuel injection o-rings (1) & gaskets (1) on the M54 engine & where in the USA to get new vacuum tubing & vacuum caps (1) & what SAE sizes to get for all the metric M54 engine vacuum tubes, hoses, pipes, and caps (1) & correcting the F-connector errors in the realoem diagrams (1) & finding the ends of hard-to-locate vacuum tubes (1) & sorely needed clarification on how the M54 CCV vacuum port works on the M52 CCV valve connection to the fuel pressure regulator connection (1) & how to make, borrow, or buy lean-condition misfire test tools to test for vacuum leaks & lean conditions (1) (2)

- Where to get a proper DISA valve repair kit (1) & how some jury-rig 'repair' a rattling DISA unit (1) (2) (3) & how the DISA valve operates (0) (1) (2) (3) (4) & how to test DISA operation (0) (1) (2) (3) (4) & a simple DIY to install an M54 DISA (1) & a nice DISA autopsy (1) (2) & a great DISA group buy (1) & how the disa valve o-ring fails (1) (2) & how it can reputedly cause all sorts of cold-engine rough idle problems (1) (2) & where to get just the DISA valve o-ring (1) & why you want to check the DISA at 100K miles or whenever the airbox is removed (1) (2) & why the DIfferenzierte SAuganlage ("Differential Air Intake") valve flap breaks (1), sometimes with parts sucked into the intake manifold (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) & a well documented example of how a broken DISA flap can ruin your engine (1) & yet another seemingly complex set of misfire codes reputedly traced to a broken DISA valve (1)

- How does the E39 fuel injection work (1) & what are the most often recommended fuel pump & fuel filter brands (1) (2) & a DIY for replacing the fuel filter (0) (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) & a quick test for fuel pump operation (1) (2) and a DIY for replacing the fuel pump (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) & how to replace and service your BMW E39 fuel injectors (1) & details on replacing the 7.52X3.52mm and 9.2X2.8mm fuel injector o-rings (1) & the location of the K96 fuel pump relay (1) & where is the fuel system pressure test Schrader valve for the I6 (1) & where is the fuel pressure test point for the V8 (1) (2) (3) & where is the location of the fuel pump relay K96 (1) & cleaning (1) (2) & replacing the fuel sensor (1) & resolving blown fuses due to a stuck fuel filler door solenoid (1) & engine fuel & octane (1) & The Gasoline FAQ & top-tier gas stations (1) & how large is the fuel tank and reserve in the E39 (1) & what gasoline to use (1) & how much gas should be left to cool the fuel pump (1) & how to siphon the fuel out of the tank (1) & does spilled gasoline go into the charcoal canister (1) & how to replace the gas cap tether (1) & a reputed fuel filler leak into the trunk (1) & the P0455 diagnostic trouble code when the gas cap is missing (1) & what is the cost differential between 87 & 91 octane AKI (1) & what gasoline mileage should an E39 get (0) (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) & the truth about mpg calculation accuracy (1) (2) & E39 great mpg stories (1) (2) (3) & E39 awful fuel mileage issues (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) (11) (12) (13) (14) (15) (16) (17) (18) (19) (20) (21) (22) (23) (24) (25) (26) (27) (28) (29) (30).

- How to test the crankcase ventilation (aka CCV, CVV, PCV, CPV, & OSV) pressure regulating valve system (1) & a video of oil separator quacking chubacca noise (1) & vacuum leaks due to holes in one or more of the five CCV hoses (1) (2) (3) or frozen or torn diaphragms (1) & a clogged CCV (1) causing pressure in the crankcase and smoke in the exhaust necessitating CCV system overhaul (BavAuto M54, M54,M54,M54,M54, & M54 observations) (M52,M52) (M52TU) (M62,M62) ('99 528i) ('98 528i); usually replaced with the insulated CCV upgrade (1) & sorely needed clarification on how the M54 CCV vacuum port works on the M52 CCV valve connection to the fuel pressure regulator connection (1) & how to do a CCV delete (1)

Most of this was summarized in this thread:
- How to diagnose a M54 engine misfire (1) & a cold-engine intermittent misfire (1) & what you can expect for your smog emissions test results (1)

DISCLAIMER:
[I don't know anything about my M54 engine. When it breaks, I simply research how to diagnose & fix it.
I read; I try to understand; I ask questions; and I snap pictures (all the photos and screenshots below are mine).
I don't generally "throw parts" at a problem, and I fully test a suspected part before replacing it, so I had a LOT of research to perform.
Probably two dozen (or more) threads were involved in this quest to understand and solve persistent & intermittent BMW M54 engine vacuum leaks, and then I always try to add value to the forum so the NEXT person doesn't have to go through the same learning process. They start where we left off, and they're expected to improve the process where needed.
Given that, please consider this summary, from my memory, the short version of the diagnostic procedure I followed at the time (the longer version being in the thread record).]
__________________
Each repair should invariably add to our knowledge base by the process of inexorable incrementalism.
Your job, in return, is to read the suggested threads, where the best people will always add value to those threads, either by pictures or by descriptions, so the next person with the same problem stands on your shoulders.
See also: E39 Bestlinks & How to easily find what you need

Last edited by bluebee; 02-17-2013 at 09:10 AM.
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  #23  
Old 02-17-2013, 11:27 AM
Steve530 Steve530 is offline
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Location: Knoxville, TN
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,281
Mein Auto: 2001 530i
Did you determine if the order mattered?

I've assumed that the order was a function of the reader, but I read an article recently that implied that the codes are listed in order of importance of maintaining the integrity of the emissions control system.
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2001 530i/5 S+P CDV delete/Akebono ceramic pads
M5 SSK/RedLine MTL/M5 rear sway bar/Bilstein HD
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  #24  
Old 02-17-2013, 07:44 PM
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bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 21,070
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 auto 130K
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve530 View Post
Did you determine if the order mattered?
Heh heh ... a long thread like this - and we STILL don't know the answer to the original question.

I still do not know whether the order matters, or not.

But, I await someone supplying more information so we learn from this endeavor.
__________________
Each repair should invariably add to our knowledge base by the process of inexorable incrementalism.
Your job, in return, is to read the suggested threads, where the best people will always add value to those threads, either by pictures or by descriptions, so the next person with the same problem stands on your shoulders.
See also: E39 Bestlinks & How to easily find what you need
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  #25  
Old 02-17-2013, 08:29 PM
Steve530 Steve530 is offline
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Location: Knoxville, TN
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,281
Mein Auto: 2001 530i
It would be interesting if someone with several codes set would check the order listed with two different code readers.

Looking at you list again, they do seem to be random. Maybe the order in which the problems occurred.
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2001 530i/5 S+P CDV delete/Akebono ceramic pads
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