Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)

F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #26  
Old 09-30-2011, 11:45 PM
zibawala zibawala is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: sfo bay area
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 873
Mein Auto: 2005 x5 4.4, 2010 M3 conv
I will if it drive even like a Lexus ct 200 and mindfully priced. Real mileage advantage.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 10-01-2011, 11:41 AM
raleedy's Avatar
raleedy raleedy is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Oregon
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,132
Mein Auto: 2013 F10 528i
Can't possibly be a market success. Sacrifice performance and space for trivial efficiency gains at a high cost. How many X6 hybrids, or 7s, do you all think BMW has sold? It would make more sense to offer genuine economy and luxury -- the 520d is the most popular model in Europe, and there is no compelling reason to think it would have less success in the US.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 10-01-2011, 01:46 PM
AutoUnion's Avatar
AutoUnion AutoUnion is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: East Coast
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 5,226
Mein Auto: German
Driving a X5d and RX Hybrid back to back has sworn me off hybrids for a while now. I prefer the power band of a diesel much more than a hybrid. And this isn't coming from a Hybrid hater. I've owned 3. My parents have had 3 too.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 10-01-2011, 02:05 PM
SLO_AERO SLO_AERO is offline
Registered User
Location: Los Angeles, CA
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 85
Mein Auto: 2011 528i
Seems like two bad tradeoffs to me. 1) incurring the environmental impacts of the battery disposal for a measly increase in fuel economy and 2) what I'm sure will be a price delta over the gas-only version that will never pay for itself in reduced fuel consumption. If BMW wants to offer us a good choice for both economics and conservation they should just bring the 520d over here!
__________________
2011 528i - Sophisto Grau/Oyster/Antracite Wood, Premium 1, Nav, et al
Near Los Angeles, CA

Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 10-01-2011, 03:15 PM
Stealth.Pilot's Avatar
Stealth.Pilot Stealth.Pilot is offline
The Driver
Location: Florida
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,577
Mein Auto: 2014 M5
Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
Driving a X5d and RX Hybrid back to back has sworn me off hybrids for a while now. I prefer the power band of a diesel much more than a hybrid. And this isn't coming from a Hybrid hater. I've owned 3. My parents have had 3 too.
I think your comparison is incorrect. The X5D is just a better car. Instead compare hybrid vs. diesel in the same car.

Most magazines that tested the VW Toerag Hybrid and Toerag V6 diesel preferred the hybrid. See this C&D review here:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...mparison_tests

__________________

2014 BMW///M5 Individual
Frozen Grey, Silverstone Full Merino, Piano Black, Exec Pkg, Drivers assistance pkg, LED Package, Bang and Olufsen, 20" Forged wheels
2015 Jaguar F-Type R Coupe

Last edited by Stealth.Pilot; 10-01-2011 at 03:16 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 10-01-2011, 04:35 PM
Stealth.Pilot's Avatar
Stealth.Pilot Stealth.Pilot is offline
The Driver
Location: Florida
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,577
Mein Auto: 2014 M5
The most intelligent hybrid strategy I have seen is the Mercedes S400h. That car was priced as their entry level S Class, and really offered a compelling proposition to a well-off but still value oriented buyer who wants fuel efficiency, low depreciation, good conscience, etc. The Lexus GS450h is also pretty good because it price matches the Lexus V8 and delivers similar performance with better efficiency and less depreciation.

But creating a more expensive, lower performing car with marginal efficiency benefits is only going to appeal for the champagne environmentalism crowd - aka Californians who don't give a **** but want to appear cool and in touch with mother earth (e.g. most hollywood types). These are the people who buy the Lexus LS600h, BMW ActiveHybrids, and Porsche Hybrids.
__________________

2014 BMW///M5 Individual
Frozen Grey, Silverstone Full Merino, Piano Black, Exec Pkg, Drivers assistance pkg, LED Package, Bang and Olufsen, 20" Forged wheels
2015 Jaguar F-Type R Coupe

Last edited by Stealth.Pilot; 10-01-2011 at 04:37 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 10-01-2011, 04:58 PM
dunderhi's Avatar
dunderhi dunderhi is offline
0-60 in 4 secs or less!
Location: MD
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,999
Mein Auto: '13 X5M, 650xi
Since May 2010 (sales start) BMWNA has sold 338 Active 7 Hybrids through August 2011 for an average of 21 per month. During the same period BMWNA has sold 14,301 non-hybrid 7 Series sedans for an average of 894 per month. IMHO, a diesel F01 would have had better sales numbers. Maybe mating to a six cylinder for better overall economy will help the hybrid fiver's sales numbers.
__________________


2013 X5M ........ 2013 650xi ...... 2011 550xi (ret) 2011 335d (ret)
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 10-01-2011, 06:45 PM
pharding pharding is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Somewhere
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,033
Mein Auto: 11 550i
I commend BMW for bringing the F10 hybrid. The Active Hybrid badges all over the car are tacky. The wheels are ugly. That is BMW's way of discouraging sales.
__________________
04 Successfully lobbied BMW NA and BMW FS to prohibit dealers from using residual values based upon Euro Delivery MSRP and to use US MSRP saving BMW Enthusiasts several thousand dollars on each lease

14 550i Euro Del
14 X3 2.8i
11 550i Euro Del, Retired
08 550i Euro Del, Retired
06 330i Euro Del, Retired
04 545i Euro Del, Retired
01 530i Euro Del, Retired
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 10-01-2011, 07:31 PM
Stealth.Pilot's Avatar
Stealth.Pilot Stealth.Pilot is offline
The Driver
Location: Florida
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,577
Mein Auto: 2014 M5
Quote:
Originally Posted by pharding View Post
I commend BMW for bringing the F10 hybrid. The Active Hybrid badges all over the car are tacky. The wheels are ugly. That is BMW's way of discouraging sales.
I think it is BMWs way of appealing to the champagne environmentalist I was referring to earlier that likes people to know their green credentials without compromising anything.
__________________

2014 BMW///M5 Individual
Frozen Grey, Silverstone Full Merino, Piano Black, Exec Pkg, Drivers assistance pkg, LED Package, Bang and Olufsen, 20" Forged wheels
2015 Jaguar F-Type R Coupe
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 10-01-2011, 09:26 PM
bmw_enthusiasm bmw_enthusiasm is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: MA
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 564
Mein Auto: 2011 M3, 550i , 2008 328i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth.Pilot View Post
I think it is BMWs way of appealing to the champagne environmentalist I was referring to earlier that likes people to know their green credentials without compromising anything.
Why they make those wheels for all hybrids?
is there a functional significance on all that?....
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 10-01-2011, 09:30 PM
bayoucity's Avatar
bayoucity bayoucity is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Houston
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 6,488
Mein Auto: 2011 335d & 2014 535i
As much as I don't care for 4 banger, I'll rather take a N20 528i over this.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 10-01-2011, 09:34 PM
bmw_enthusiasm bmw_enthusiasm is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: MA
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 564
Mein Auto: 2011 M3, 550i , 2008 328i
what would be the price on this?
I mean there is so much high tech nowadays..
if there was no M5 coming, I would consider assuming its sporty enough
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 10-02-2011, 12:01 AM
Stealth.Pilot's Avatar
Stealth.Pilot Stealth.Pilot is offline
The Driver
Location: Florida
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,577
Mein Auto: 2014 M5
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw_enthusiasm View Post
what would be the price on this?
I mean there is so much high tech nowadays..
if there was no M5 coming, I would consider assuming its sporty enough
Not announced yet. Expect it to be around same as 550 in price. Performance is not sporty - 0-60 in 5.7.
__________________

2014 BMW///M5 Individual
Frozen Grey, Silverstone Full Merino, Piano Black, Exec Pkg, Drivers assistance pkg, LED Package, Bang and Olufsen, 20" Forged wheels
2015 Jaguar F-Type R Coupe
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 10-02-2011, 12:32 AM
bmw_enthusiasm bmw_enthusiasm is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: MA
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 564
Mein Auto: 2011 M3, 550i , 2008 328i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth.Pilot View Post
Not announced yet. Expect it to be around same as 550 in price. Performance is not sporty - 0-60 in 5.7.
how can you have a 6 cyl+ hybrid tech and not get some performance out of it..
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 10-02-2011, 05:56 AM
Stealth.Pilot's Avatar
Stealth.Pilot Stealth.Pilot is offline
The Driver
Location: Florida
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,577
Mein Auto: 2014 M5
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw_enthusiasm View Post
how can you have a 6 cyl+ hybrid tech and not get some performance out of it..
Restricting peak output on the electric motor and having too small an electric motor. Do that and the benefits don't outweigh the weight. The hybrid adds only 30hp here at peak output even though the electric motor can do 55hp. For that 30hp you have to add 400lbs. That's not a favorable trade off.

I suspect the car may be too heavy which is why they couldn't make it work. The LS600h and Panamera have this problem too. No net add in performance.

On the other hand VW, Infiniti and Lexus manage to add net performance.

Sent from my iPhone
__________________

2014 BMW///M5 Individual
Frozen Grey, Silverstone Full Merino, Piano Black, Exec Pkg, Drivers assistance pkg, LED Package, Bang and Olufsen, 20" Forged wheels
2015 Jaguar F-Type R Coupe
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 10-02-2011, 11:20 AM
Sophisto Sophisto is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Netherlands
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,103
Mein Auto: F11 530D
Quote:
Originally Posted by soulunderdog View Post
A couple of posts about preferring 535d. The sound of those engines were very strange years ago; I assume the clean burning means no more black smoke? Also, given the huge increase in cost per gallon, I guess the fuel economy must be quite significant? Never really considered a 535d - enlighten me?
The 535D will be sufficient even for you in the States.
I drive a humble 530D, the 250 hp will maybe not be something you get a nice hot feeling about.
But the 540 nm torque with the 8 sp zf transmission gives a very good and fast highway family traveling abillity. 250 km/hr is not a problem at all.
There is no fume, or diesel engine noise, just an abundance of flexibility in driving fast with a 1000 km fuel tank driving span at 140 km/hr average.

I wrote somewhere this summer about consumption and fast travelling in Germany.
Quite satisfying numbers as far as I am concerned.
Probably a better choice than the hybrid thing.

But it might be something good in town the electric driving.
Overall the heavy car takes its diesel fuel in stop and go and town driving.
Like some other posters I will not be in the front row for trying it out the electric hybrid.
The 530 D is quite sufficient in Europe traffic and controlling the right foot is something in the forefront to not make travelling more expensive than only considering fuel efficiency.

Last edited by Sophisto; 10-02-2011 at 11:29 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 10-02-2011, 12:35 PM
soulunderdog soulunderdog is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Tennessee
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 350
Mein Auto: 2011 535i
Thanks for the feedback Sophisto. If the HP is high enough sounds like diesel could be a viable choice..
__________________
2011 535i - Space Gray, Black Dakota, Sport, SAT, PP2, CA
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 10-04-2011, 11:14 AM
zibawala zibawala is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: sfo bay area
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 873
Mein Auto: 2005 x5 4.4, 2010 M3 conv
I test drove a x6 hybrid vs 550i GT, honestly GT despite being uglier , was cheaper and more fun. X6 was more expensive and it seemed like all hybrids that some one is trying to squeeze the neck and asphyxiation of the hybrid throttle ;( that is throttling the throttle lol
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 10-04-2011, 01:17 PM
quackbury's Avatar
quackbury quackbury is offline
///Monkeyazz Duck
Location: Not In Kansas Any More
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,462
Mein Auto: 535i M Sport; 328i Wagon
Quote:
Originally Posted by SLO_AERO View Post
Seems like two bad tradeoffs to me. 1) incurring the environmental impacts of the battery disposal for a measly increase in fuel economy and 2) what I'm sure will be a price delta over the gas-only version that will never pay for itself in reduced fuel consumption. If BMW wants to offer us a good choice for both economics and conservation they should just bring the 520d over here!
+1,000. Another thing I wonder about is what the auto insurance industry will think about all of this. It would seem to me that repair costs on a hybrid would be exponentially higher, especially in the case of a rear-end collision when you not only have to repair structure and suspension, you now have to replace the friggin' battery, too.

I suspect the car will be sold at a loss (or at least at a vastly reduced profit margin), all in the name of improving CAFE. Which probably means the car is more likely to be totalled in an accident, since the cost of replacing components will quickly outstrip the market value.

Finally, I was too lazy to read the whole article, but what does all that added equipment, wiring and battery do to the GVW? I am betting the hybrid will weigh at least 500 pounds more than a regular 535, which ain't exactly svelte to begin with. Maybe part of the reason the performance is so lackluster is that the sucker is just carrying around too much mass. Which will hamper all aspects of performance, not just 0-60.

Quote:
Originally Posted by soulunderdog View Post
Thanks for the feedback Sophisto. If the HP is high enough sounds like diesel could be a viable choice..
Driving a diesel (I have 25,000 miles on my X5 35D) is all about torque, not HP. The next time you schedule service, ask your dealer in advance to hold you a diesel loaner (335D or X5 35D). I think you will be amazed. I became a Diesel "believer" just that way - had a loaner for a week and fell in love.
__________________


Current BMW's:
2014 535i MSport Space / Black, ZCW, ZDA, ZLP, ZLS, ZPP, H-K and 704
2014 328i Sport Wagon, Glacier / Black, ZSL, ZD2, ZD3, ZDH, ZLP, ZPP, ZTP, and H-K

Prior BMW's
2011 535ix MSport
2011 X5 35D
2008 ///M3 Vert
2008 X5 3.0
2007 X5 3.0
2006 X5 3.0
2006 550iA SP
2003 540iA M-Technic
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 10-04-2011, 01:28 PM
Sophisto Sophisto is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Netherlands
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,103
Mein Auto: F11 530D
Quote:
Originally Posted by quackbury View Post
Driving a diesel (I have 25,000 miles on my X5 35D) is all about torque, not HP. The next time you schedule service, ask your dealer in advance to hold you a diesel loaner (335D or X5 35D). I think you will be amazed. I became a Diesel "believer" just that way - had a loaner for a week and fell in love.
That is it.
The high torque combined with the wide torque revspan of these diesels are giving a very nice driving experience on the highway.
Trying it is believing it.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:08 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms