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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #1  
Old 09-30-2011, 05:33 PM
yogi799 yogi799 is offline
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535i owners - do you have a delay when taking off?

OK. Stoplights. I press the gas pedal - it takes about .75 seconds for the car to move (the PROOF of that is guys in the adjacent lanes are starting to move before I can - I've pressed it but still waiting... they started moving exactly when I pressed my pedal). If I press lightly, the RPM will slowly increase and takeoff will be smooth (yet still delayed). If I press it half way for faster acceleration, still .75s wait, then the car sort of jerks into higher rpm (2k or so) and zooms off. I NEVER get a super smooth takeoff UNLESS I drive like a retired person. Under moderate acceleration, there is usually the sudden RPM jump and a "kick" that I am not intending on doing.

When my wife first drove the F10, she also noticed it, thought she did not press it enough (as the car did not immediately move), so she pressed it harder (intuition would dictate that since initial push produced no result) and received a harder take off than she was planning. Nothing TOO aggressive, but still a lot harder than she (or I) intended. I had to tell her to be more patient (it felt stupid...).

I get no hesitation while in motion. Only from standstill.

I did not experience ANY of that with my E46 328 or my '03 MDX or any other cars I have driven, including a 2011 Acura TL loaner I have right now which supposedly also has drive-by-wire throttle control.

The reason I start a new thread on this is that it seems some guys have an instantaneous response. I wanted this thread to simply gather yes-es and no-s and other feedback you can provide, specifically for the 535i.

Mine is July 2011 build. This behavior was exhibited from day one. I CAN live with it, but if this could be fixed, I'd jump on this option as this can be annoying.

So, do you have a LIGHTNING FAST/INSTANTANEOUS RESPONSE from the standstill? You zoom off the moment you press the gas?

***** UPDATE: Nothing to cheer about BUT - the delay IS NOT only related to slow throttle! - Just tested today - my throttle in P or N is very rapid, the engine revs as expected - exactly at the push of the gas! I've been long suspecting that - the damn delay is caused by a combo of engine revs AND tranny not engaging fast enough (clutch/toque converter)!!! It is clear as the sky after today's experiments. Oh and yes, while in D - I can totally floor it and quickly release and the car won't even move!!!! RPM won't either. Again, in P, the engine revs like a devil, almost instantaneously.

Last edited by yogi799; 10-05-2011 at 05:27 PM.
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  #2  
Old 09-30-2011, 06:22 PM
535Stu 535Stu is offline
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You need to take the car in and have the software updated.
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  #3  
Old 09-30-2011, 07:39 PM
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markl53 markl53 is offline
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Yogi, didn't you just get your car? How many miles do you have? I have an August 2010 (2010) built base 535i with the standard 8-spd auto. I have had no software upgrades. There was an initial delay in taking off from a complete stop for a few hundred miles. This faded away in time after the car adapted to my style. Many people report similar findings. If you only have a couple hundred miles on the car I think you'll find it goes away.

There is a second type of delay with my car, more like an indecision of the transmission that I can repeat at will. I think this is just the programming of "D" mode, it does not occur in "DS". When coming to ALMOST a complete stop, like rolling through a stop sign when leaving my street, and then accelerating, there is about a 1/2 second delay before the transmission decides to go back to 1st from the 2nd gear it is in when rolling slowly. This is somewhat annoying but I've learned to expect it and just push throught it. When describing your issue, it's important to know if you are really at a complete stop when you notice the problem. If so, as I stated above, I think it will go away with a little more time.
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Last edited by markl53; 09-30-2011 at 07:41 PM.
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  #4  
Old 09-30-2011, 07:44 PM
yogi799 yogi799 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markl53 View Post
Yogi, didn't you just get your car? How many miles do you have? I have an August 2010 (2010) built base 535i with the standard 8-spd auto. I have had no software upgrades. There was an initial delay in taking off from a complete stop for a few hundred miles. This faded away in time after the car adapted to my style. Many people report similar findings. If you only have a couple hundred miles on the car I think you'll find it goes away.
Some hope I guess... well... I've got about 1500 miles and I'm not sure if it'll change on me as I've been sort of making easy take-offs intentionally to not abuse my tranny (given the unintentional harder acceleration than necessary). So will the car think I'm a Sunday driver and keep the damn delay? How did you drive it through your initial period when it displayed the delay??



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Last edited by yogi799; 09-30-2011 at 07:46 PM.
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  #5  
Old 09-30-2011, 07:53 PM
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markl53 markl53 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yogi799 View Post
Some hope I guess... well... I've got about 1500 miles and I'm not sure if it'll change on me as I've been sort of making easy take-offs intentionally to not abuse my tranny (given the unintentional harder acceleration than necessary). So will the car think I'm a Sunday driver and keep the damn delay? How did you drive it through your initial period when it displayed the delay??
I stayed below the 4500 rpm recommended maximum. I didn't do a lot of "jack rabbit" starts, but I didn't baby it either. Maybe don't think about how you're starting off so much and just push the pedal. I actually experienced this type of delay when driving an '04 330i before buying my '05 6MT. They only had an automatic to test drive. It had a similar delay which I noticed immediately. I had another '08 6MT before my auto 535i and was very sensitive to see if my car had the delay. It did slightly at first but I don't notice it now (as I said). I don't think this is necessarily a totally new BMW function.
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Last edited by markl53; 09-30-2011 at 07:55 PM.
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  #6  
Old 09-30-2011, 08:03 PM
tdepetra tdepetra is offline
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There is a hundred or more posts on this subject by different names -- Tip-in; jerking; hesitation, etc. Some of us have posted so many times we can't write about it anymore, especially since software updates for the 535 have eliminated the problem and have been posted here.
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  #7  
Old 09-30-2011, 08:04 PM
A8540TDI A8540TDI is offline
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I certainly noticed this hesitation when I test drove an F10 535i and found it so annoying that I did not buy the car. Surprisingly, Automobile magazine mentioned a similar situation with the new M5.

The new 535 is a nice car and I would have bought it; but the hesitation would have driven me crazy.
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Old 09-30-2011, 09:16 PM
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Needsdecaf Needsdecaf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdepetra View Post
There is a hundred or more posts on this subject by different names -- Tip-in; jerking; hesitation, etc. Some of us have posted so many times we can't write about it anymore, especially since software updates for the 535 have eliminated the problem and have been posted here.
They haven't eliminated it for everyone.



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  #9  
Old 09-30-2011, 09:35 PM
Vomit Vomit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yogi799 View Post
OK. Stoplights. I press the gas pedal - it takes about .75 seconds for the car to move (the PROOF of that is guys in the adjacent lanes are starting to move before I can - I've pressed it but still waiting... they started moving exactly when I pressed my pedal). If I press lightly, the RPM will slowly increase and takeoff will be smooth (yet still delayed). If I press it half way for faster acceleration, still .75s wait, then the car sort of jerks into higher rpm (2k or so) and zooms off. I NEVER get a super smooth takeoff UNLESS I drive like a retired person. Under moderate acceleration, there is usually the sudden RPM jump and a "kick" that I am not intending on doing.

When my wife first drove the F10, she also noticed it, thought she did not press it enough (as the car did not immediately move), so she pressed it harder (intuition would dictate that since initial push produced no result) and received a harder take off than she was planning. Nothing TOO aggressive, but still a lot harder than she (or I) intended. I had to tell her to be more patient (it felt stupid...).

I get no hesitation while in motion. Only from standstill.

I did not experience ANY of that with my E46 328 or my '03 MDX or any other cars I have driven, including a 2011 Acura TL loaner I have right now which supposedly also has drive-by-wire throttle control.

The reason I start a new thread on this is that it seems some guys have an instantaneous response. I wanted this thread to simply gather yes-es and no-s and other feedback you can provide, specifically for the 535i.

Mine is July 2011 build. This behavior was exhibited from day one. I CAN live with it, but if this could be fixed, I'd jump on this option as this can be annoying.

So, do you have a LIGHTNING FAST/INSTANTANEOUS RESPONSE from the standstill? You zoom off the moment you press the gas?
Nope, no zoom when I press the gas.

I also have to let the clutch out.
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  #10  
Old 09-30-2011, 09:54 PM
DuneMan DuneMan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdepetra View Post
There is a hundred or more posts on this subject by different names -- Tip-in; jerking; hesitation, etc. Some of us have posted so many times we can't write about it anymore, especially since software updates for the 535 have eliminated the problem and have been posted here.
Software updates never fixed mine. Still present more than ever. And BMW is becoming more and more difficult to deal with on this delay problem. So, I just might have to fix it my own way - sell it and be done with it.
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  #11  
Old 09-30-2011, 10:27 PM
Vomit Vomit is offline
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Dunno about BMW (new)

However, people on the MBWorld forum swore by Sprintbooster as giving better throttle response from takeoff. Might be worth a try.
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  #12  
Old 09-30-2011, 10:37 PM
ccgp ccgp is offline
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this is the same topic people posted and I have wrote the same update as you do already. even wife's comment are the same

I have the same July 2011 build and all SW is updated after they did the check.

they will tell you to drive till 15000 miles, have the car used to your style, and come back if it's still there.

my car is getting better, but it does ever has a smooth launch yet. When I drove the loaner car which was 335D that has a very direct launch and harder acceleration feel ( 535i is 8 speed, so it will keep shifting up ), I actually have a hard time adjusting back to drive the 535i as it just won't go........

I still love the car, but this condition has to get better going forward......

Good luck to your trip to the service dept.
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  #13  
Old 10-01-2011, 03:51 AM
535Stu 535Stu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a8540tdi View Post
i certainly noticed this hesitation when i test drove an f10 535i and found it so annoying that i did not buy the car. Surprisingly, automobile magazine mentioned a similar situation with the new m5.

The new 535 is a nice car and i would have bought it; but the hesitation would have driven me crazy.
+1
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Old 10-01-2011, 05:00 AM
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DreamCar DreamCar is offline
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+1
Do we have this problem with 550 ?
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Old 10-01-2011, 05:15 AM
kirbyj kirbyj is offline
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I had this hesitation and jerky takeoff problem for quite awhile. It wasn't that bad, but it was noticeable to others in the car. My wife called it "the jerkmobile." I read here that putting it in sport mode would alleviate the problem, but often I forgot to put it in sport as I usually like to drive in normal. Sport mode seemed just as jerky anyway. I was thinking of bringing the car in for a software update, but the problem seemed to be lessening over time and I also don't like to jump into things too quickly as often the fix makes things worse.

Now my car has over 11,000 miles on it and the jerkiness and hesitation have ceased. I drive mostly in normal and I think either the car has finally adapted to me or, and maybe more likely, I have adapted to the car. I think I have changed how I accelerate from a standstill. Instead of immediately stepping down on the accelerator aggressively, I now partially depress the accelerator initially until I start moving off the line and then i can nail it, if warranted, with no hesitation or jerkiness whatsoever.
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  #16  
Old 10-01-2011, 05:33 AM
535Stu 535Stu is offline
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Originally Posted by DreamCar View Post
Do we have this problem with 550 ?
No complaints on this forum, as far as I know
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Old 10-01-2011, 07:40 AM
PhiDeltBeers PhiDeltBeers is offline
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Could you guys be describing a hint of turbo lag? If car is idling at 700rpm's that torque kicks in at about 1500rpm, hence a small delay? Hold the brake down, rev to 1500 then go. Bet it doesn't delay.
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Old 10-01-2011, 08:22 AM
535Stu 535Stu is offline
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Originally Posted by PhiDeltBeers View Post
Could you guys be describing a hint of turbo lag? If car is idling at 700rpm's that torque kicks in at about 1500rpm, hence a small delay? Hold the brake down, rev to 1500 then go. Bet it doesn't delay.
Owners of the 528 complain as well
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Old 10-01-2011, 09:29 AM
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Stealth.Pilot Stealth.Pilot is offline
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Does this affect people with Sport Auto? Also I only see 6cylinder owners on this thread.
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Old 10-01-2011, 10:43 AM
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markl53 markl53 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhiDeltBeers View Post
Could you guys be describing a hint of turbo lag? If car is idling at 700rpm's that torque kicks in at about 1500rpm, hence a small delay? Hold the brake down, rev to 1500 then go. Bet it doesn't delay.
No, not related to turbo, IMO. When my car was new, it was similar to what others are saying. Press the accelerator and the car doesn't move away immediately. Kind of like a dead spot.
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Last edited by markl53; 10-01-2011 at 10:44 AM.
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  #21  
Old 10-01-2011, 11:35 AM
Bimmer3oi Bimmer3oi is offline
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I just found this disappointing video on Youtube. It shows just how bad the thottle tip-in is against the Audi A6. Very sad.

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  #22  
Old 10-01-2011, 11:53 AM
tlr550 tlr550 is offline
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shocking and quite alarming. WTF??
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Old 10-01-2011, 12:04 PM
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DreamCar DreamCar is offline
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If the problem is this epidemic why didnt BMW come with with complete fix to it yet? any explanation from BMW on the same?
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Old 10-01-2011, 12:04 PM
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Needsdecaf Needsdecaf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhiDeltBeers View Post
Could you guys be describing a hint of turbo lag? If car is idling at 700rpm's that torque kicks in at about 1500rpm, hence a small delay? Hold the brake down, rev to 1500 then go. Bet it doesn't delay.
No, it's related to how the throttle (as it is since there is no throttle) is applied. It ONLY happens on takeoff. It's almost like the computer that reads the pedal position isn't throttling up in proportion to the pedal. But then you get about 1/2" in and it says "oh crap, you want 1/2" of throttle pedal input" and goes from zero throttle to that position instantaneously.

You can feel some lag when you're lugging along at 1k RPM and give it the boot...that's lag.
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Old 10-01-2011, 12:45 PM
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Stealth.Pilot Stealth.Pilot is offline
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That video was very illuminating. I happened to drive an Audi A6 3.0T today and there is zero throttle lag. The throttle is also fairly linear in dynamic mode.

I think Needsdecaf's description is very good. The problem on the BMW isn't lag, it's non linear throttle. It can likely be solved by reprogramming, or by a third party throttle controller such as Blitz or Sprint.

I wonder if the 2TB owners have the same issue. In the 550i with Sport Auto I found virtually no lag driving in Sport+ mode - power was instant.

I would imagine Dinan will also be able to fix this for those willing to play with warranty once the Dinan tune for the N55 comes out.
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