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E34 (1989 - 1995)

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  #1  
Old 10-09-2011, 12:32 PM
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Car cut off and will not start

Car cut off at a light yesterday and will not start.

There is plenty of fuel getting to the rail but the car does not have spark. I tested the coil and it seems to be good. Even tried a new coil and nothing. I am thinking the cam position sensor??? The Bentley is some what vague on how to test it. Is it pin to ground to test or pin to pin???
Any thoughts ???

I am getting so sick of working on this car
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Last edited by CarDriver; 10-10-2011 at 05:07 AM.
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  #2  
Old 10-09-2011, 03:25 PM
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BMR_LVR BMR_LVR is offline
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I'm assuming this is the 1990 model since you referred to one coil? Usually the camshaft position sensor does not cause a no-start .... usually. However, the crankshaft position sensor will. You check the camshaft position sensor the same way you check the CPS. The CPS spec is 540 ohms +/- 10% and the camshaft position sensor is 1280 ohms +/- 10%.

Also, make sure to check your main DME relay. If it goes, it will not get spark.

Hope this helps.

Steve
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It's Deja Poo - as in, I've heard this **** before.
Steve

Calypso Red 1992 525i with 200K miles

1991 735i - Sold
1992 525i - Sold
1995 325is - Sold
2000 528i - Sold

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  #3  
Old 10-09-2011, 04:51 PM
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Sorry, I was referring to the CPS. I was frustrated at the time I wrote that. How do I test it, where do I place the probes of my ohm meter to the CPS ??

Thanks.
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  #4  
Old 10-09-2011, 05:09 PM
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Trace the CPS from the crankshaft pulley to its harness connector. Disconnect the connector and hold the connector so that the two tabs are on the bottom and the one tab is on top. From this perspective, the pins are numbered from left to right 1, 2 and 3. Set your multimeter to the ohms position and set it to the 2000, not 2000K. Touch the probes to pins 1 and 2.

Here, I have to make a correction to my previous information. I reviewed the Bentley manual since your car is the 1990 525 which has the M20 and I am not as familiar with that as I am the M50. Bentley says that the CPS resistance should be 540 ohms +/- 10% for the M20. I know that it correct for the M50 (despite the misprint in Bentley that I mentioned previously). I assume that it is correct for the M20 as well.

If you get a 1 there, then the CPS is shot. Let us know what you find.

Steve
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Quote:
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It's Deja Poo - as in, I've heard this **** before.
Steve

Calypso Red 1992 525i with 200K miles

1991 735i - Sold
1992 525i - Sold
1995 325is - Sold
2000 528i - Sold

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  #5  
Old 10-09-2011, 05:55 PM
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Thanks Steve, I will check that tomorrow.

If that checks out to be good then the only thing left is the DME. The CPS and the DME can be got for around the same price, So either way it will not be too bad.
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Last edited by CarDriver; 10-09-2011 at 06:03 PM.
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  #6  
Old 10-09-2011, 10:55 PM
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Try swapping the main engine relay. Stomp test. Im going to guess that its your FP going out.
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  #7  
Old 10-10-2011, 05:02 AM
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The fuel pump is good. I tested it electrically and the old fashioned way. It is putting out plenty of gas. Even if the pressure was not what it should be, there is more than enough going into the fuel rail to start the car. There is no spark... And my 06/89 will not stomp test. it does not have that functionality :o((

Wish I had a DME to swap but the other car I have has an M50 :o((
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  #8  
Old 10-10-2011, 12:58 PM
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The CPS tested good. 525 ohms. Close enough. So the last thing is the DME. no way to test that.
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  #9  
Old 10-10-2011, 01:18 PM
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You may be right. However, did you make sure that the main DME relay is not bad? I have never tested a relay. I just replaced mine for good measure because it is only about $25 at the dealer.

Here is a video on how to test a relay if you are interested in trying it:



Steve
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Most problems are usually something simple !

Quote:
Originally Posted by noego View Post
It's Deja Poo - as in, I've heard this **** before.
Steve

Calypso Red 1992 525i with 200K miles

1991 735i - Sold
1992 525i - Sold
1995 325is - Sold
2000 528i - Sold

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  #10  
Old 10-10-2011, 04:17 PM
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Are we talking about the same relay??? Where exactly is the DME relay located??
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  #11  
Old 10-10-2011, 04:41 PM
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According to page 610-2 of Bentley, it is in the E-box, relay#4 listed as "System (main) relay" beside the fuel pump relay.

Note the caveat that it could be located in a different position, but that should be it.

Steve
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Most problems are usually something simple !

Quote:
Originally Posted by noego View Post
It's Deja Poo - as in, I've heard this **** before.
Steve

Calypso Red 1992 525i with 200K miles

1991 735i - Sold
1992 525i - Sold
1995 325is - Sold
2000 528i - Sold

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  #12  
Old 10-10-2011, 05:37 PM
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OK, Thanks, In the AM I will pull it from the touring and see if it works.
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  #13  
Old 10-10-2011, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by CarDriver View Post
OK, Thanks, In the AM I will pull it from the touring and see if it works.
One big benefit of having two Bimmers. I have referenced the E36 or vice versa several times, even interchanging parts as you will be doing.

I hope it is that simple for you.

Steve
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Most problems are usually something simple !

Quote:
Originally Posted by noego View Post
It's Deja Poo - as in, I've heard this **** before.
Steve

Calypso Red 1992 525i with 200K miles

1991 735i - Sold
1992 525i - Sold
1995 325is - Sold
2000 528i - Sold

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  #14  
Old 10-10-2011, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarDriver View Post
Are we talking about the same relay??? Where exactly is the DME relay located??
its the White one closest to the engine on a m50. According to bentleys you should get 12v at 86 and 30 in the relay scoket.Then check the brown ground for cont to ground. if no ground on the brown possiable faulty ECU.

Last edited by luckydog; 10-10-2011 at 10:30 PM.
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  #15  
Old 10-11-2011, 02:07 AM
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I found an ECU for $70 but I am hoping that is not the case... I will find out in a couple of hours...
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  #16  
Old 10-11-2011, 05:50 AM
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I just tested my relays. I took the DME, fuel pump and that other relay out of the car that will not start and put all three of them in the touring and it started right up. What else would cause a no spark situation... The ECU... or a short somewhere ???? I am hoping not a short, but aside from that could it be the ECU or is there something else I am missing???

I really do not want to sign off on this car...
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  #17  
Old 10-11-2011, 07:27 AM
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ECU and DME are the same thing, just different terms.

Hmm ..... I just don't know that much about the M20. May I suggest that you take the working parts out of the touring and put them in the sedan (one at a time) and see what happens

I know that your CPS ohmed out okay, but it's sounding so much like a CPS. I know it's a hassle, but (and this is assuming that the CPS is interchanable), could you try the CPS from the tourning on the sedan?

I'm starting to run out of ideas, but it has to be something that can be fixed. We are just overlooking it.

Got to get back to work now. I will be on the road until later this evening. I'll be looking forward to an update.

Steve
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Most problems are usually something simple !

Quote:
Originally Posted by noego View Post
It's Deja Poo - as in, I've heard this **** before.
Steve

Calypso Red 1992 525i with 200K miles

1991 735i - Sold
1992 525i - Sold
1995 325is - Sold
2000 528i - Sold

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  #18  
Old 10-11-2011, 08:05 AM
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The ECU. As in computer not the white relay. The unit to the left of the three relays. I believe that would cause a no spark issue but i am not sure... I do not want to mess with the wagon too much as it is the last working car i have..

I may try swapping the CPS tonight but like i said, i do not want to screw up the Wagon.
Sent from my MB508 using Bimmer
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  #19  
Old 10-11-2011, 08:38 AM
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To my understanding the DME and the ecu arnt the same. The DME is the fuel management/timing component up against the firewall in the center, the ecu is the box on the side of the bay in it's little housing. If an ecu is $70, just go for it. If it doesn't fix it than you have a spare lying around.
Maybe there's alot of buildup or gunk around your CPS so it won't give you a proper reading. (really just throwing thoughts around)
I agree with swapping the relays back one at a time, being as one may be defective.
If it's a short or a break in a wire, it can be found. Maybe a new ecu and wiring harness (?)
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  #20  
Old 10-11-2011, 11:01 AM
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OK, Will clean the CPS before replacing to see if that works. If not, I will swap it out from the touring. if all that fails, it is down to the ecu or short in a harness. I hope I do not have to get rid of it. I have no place to keep it. Apartment life sucks like that... I put a sign on it for today and am hoping I did not get a ticket.

I need to get it running very soon or get rid of it :o(( My E34 touring is being mean. I could have sworn I heard her say "Junk the B!tch" LOL...
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  #21  
Old 10-11-2011, 11:01 AM
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OK, Will clean the CPS before replacing to see if that works. If not, I will swap it out from the touring. if all that fails, it is down to the ecu or short in a harness. I hope I do not have to get rid of it. I have no place to keep it. Apartment life sucks like that... I put a sign on it for today and am hoping I did not get a ticket.

I need to get it running very soon or get rid of it :o(( My E34 touring is being mean. I could have sworn I heard her say "Junk the B!tch" LOL...
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  #22  
Old 10-11-2011, 11:32 AM
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Lmao, do not junk her! The touring is just jealous of the sedans suspension goodies. We can fix her, it'll just be a bit of time and a bit of money. That the price you pay for going bimmer
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1995 525iA 250k mi
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  #23  
Old 10-11-2011, 03:06 PM
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Unfortunately, time and money is what I do not have. No place to keep the car off the street so it will be ticketed every day and if after I get an ECU to test, if I can get one ASAP, that is the last shot. I can If that does not fix her she is a goner... If I knew someone local with an M20 I could throw theirs in to see if it worked
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Last edited by CarDriver; 10-11-2011 at 03:08 PM.
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  #24  
Old 10-11-2011, 03:52 PM
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I'm keepin my fingers crossed for her. Hope a replacement ecu works if you can get one
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  #25  
Old 10-11-2011, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 95 E34 View Post
To my understanding the DME and the ecu arnt the same. The DME is the fuel management/timing component up against the firewall in the center, the ecu is the box on the side of the bay in it's little housing.
This confuses me. I have been under the impression that the DME (Digital Motor Electronics, aka basic control unit on realoem.com) and ECU (Engine Control Unit) are one in the same.

My understanding is that the DME is in the E-box located in the corner of the engine compartment on the exhaust side. I looked at my 92 525 and on the center of the firewall I see a box covering the wiring harness, but not a specific component.

Would you please be so kind as to take pictures of the two separate components or provide differing part numbers so that I can better understand?

Thanks,
Steve
__________________
Most problems are usually something simple !

Quote:
Originally Posted by noego View Post
It's Deja Poo - as in, I've heard this **** before.
Steve

Calypso Red 1992 525i with 200K miles

1991 735i - Sold
1992 525i - Sold
1995 325is - Sold
2000 528i - Sold

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